Journey of the Universe | Brian Swimme | Talks at Google

ADAM LEONARD: Welcome, everyone Thank you for coming today Hello to everyone live in the room with me And we have people participating in the livestream from all over the world And also hello to those of you who will be seeing us on YouTube after the fact So my name is Adam Leonard from the People Development Department And I’m really excited about today It’s been in conversation for many months for several different reasons So one is that our speaker today is a scientist, and I have great respect for him He has a Ph.D. in mathematics– let’s see, I want to get this right– studying the singularities in gravitational systems And so I know there’s a lot of scientists here at Google, but oftentimes what can happen– I’m not a scientist by training, but whatever work we do, we can be so heads down, so busy that we lose sight of what was that initial inspiration that attracted us to whatever we ended up studying in the first place, whether it was computer science or what have you And so what I love so much about Brian and his work is that, in my own experience, he’s brought back, you can call it the wonder, the awe, the heart in science, and in cosmology, and the universe, and this sense that we had of the mystery that we find ourselves in since childhood That can sometimes get lost over time And so by bringing in a kind of poetry to science, it’s quite a gift, and it’s quite unique And so I think you’ll be able to experience at least a taste of that today along with me So thank you for coming, and I’m going to hand it over to Brian Swimme [APPLAUSE] BRIAN SWIMME: It’s great to be with you today I like the way Adam described my work It’s a way of remembering the wonder of the universe Another way to talk about it is to say that it could be that the human species is going through one of its fundamental changes, and we’re right in the middle of it I mean, this has happened before We talk about the Paleolithic era, the Neolithic era, the classical civilizations, and the modern period And so it could be that we’re just on the cusp of entering another era of humanity And I don’t claim to know this with certainty at all, because we’re right in the middle of it But nevertheless, I think it’s a hopeful vision that we’re moving out of one era and into another And so I’m really here to talk about that as a possibility, something to reflect on Is it the case that we’re wobbling forward into a new era of the human adventure? One way to say it is that the cultures have a fundamental story, a fundamental way of orienting themselves to the universe I mean, every culture that we’ve looked at has this kind of overview It’s a way in which we can gather together human energies to focus on what we think is important And the basic idea to repeat is that I think the orientation during the modern period is not as convincing as it once was Something else might be emerging And if I can tell you just in a phrase what I think that is I think it is the case that for the first time in human history, we are seeing the emergence of a fundamental story of the universe that draws upon the experience of humans from every continent, every culture It’s not the only thing that’s emerging I’m not saying that, but I’m saying that it’s remarkable that during the last 400 years of modern science, scientists working in different fields entirely– engineers, technologists, scientists– different fields have eventuated with a story that is comprehensive concerning the birth of universe and its development I mean, I myself first noticed this in graduate school

So there we were at night, and talking about the evolution of the stars, or the birth of the Earth And we all were speaking about the same story One of my friends was from China, another was from Afghanistan, another was from Bolivia All of our different backgrounds, and yet we agreed on these fundamental perspectives So that is this notion that perhaps, even in the middle of a very difficult situation on the planet, with war taking place and all kinds of violence, even in the midst of this, there appears the possibility of an understanding that has at least the promise of deepening the unity that humans feel with one another One way to enter into this discussion was to think about the last time something like this happened And that was with Copernicus So Copernicus with his great discovery of the Earth actually moving around the sun, I mean, that was a huge insight into the universe And it took centuries for to really take hold And I think something similar is taking place here And if you can imagine it’s the year 1542, which is just the year before Copernicus died, he was very reluctant to talk about his findings But just imagine that he took a trip to London, the center of the world, and he wanted to talk about this new fundamental story that was emerging And what kind of a reception would he get? He wouldn’t get much of anything One of the difficulties is, the ongoing challenge of just survival in London, in England, actually, in 1542, the population of England had been going downhill for three centuries The plague had taken out a good number of people, but also there was scurvy, there was measles, there was tuberculosis So England was on the way out, and the last thing in the world they want to listen to is a guy talking about the sun and the Earth They had more pressing things And I think that’s similar to our situation now We have so many pressing issues But there’s another reason Another reason that a new story is difficult to take in is because it’s fundamentally counterintuitive to the default assumptions of the culture, fundamentally counterintuitive You can imagine Here’s Copernicus He’s talking to Londoners, and he’s telling them, it turns out that the sun isn’t going around the Earth The Earth is actually spinning Well, this goes against what everyone had assumed was the case, almost everyone had assumed was the case And right away, there are intellectual objections So for instance, if the Earth is actually spinning, they would say to him, then why isn’t the Atlantic Ocean washing over the island? So the science of the time would be at odds with what Copernicus was saying And the same is true of this story that science and technology are bringing to us There are three fundamentally counterintuitive aspects to the new story that make it difficult for it to be drawn into the society as a whole The first is the notion that the universe is expanding Now, among people that are educated in science, this is now taken as commonplace, but it has to be recognized that this was the main challenge When Albert Einstein first articulated his field equations in 1915, as many of you might know, he actually altered the equations so that it would take away the idea that the universe was expanding It was Alexander Friedman, a mathematician in Russia,

that actually discovered this possibility, and pointed it out to Einstein Einstein had no interest in it So here’s Einstein He makes a discovery, and it’s too much for him to take in, because there’s no evidence whatsoever of an expansion with Einstein So this notion of the universe expanding and even, if you push it further, the very notion that the trillion galaxies we now know about, the trillion galaxies, came from something the size of an apple seed? I mean counterintuitive, difficult to hold onto to, but this would be great, great insight coming out of Einstein’s work, and Friedman, and Hubble, Lemaitre, all of them together arrived at the second, the second profoundly counterintuitive notion It has to do with the nature of matter itself And this was the whole quantum insight, but matter, from the times of the Greeks Democritus, Leucippus, Epicurus, all of them had an atomic theory of matter And so this was what Newton loved coming from the Greeks, the idea that the universe consists of these hard, massy objects called atoms And then it wasn’t until Dalton in the 19th century actually investigated it that we started to realize that, actually, empirically, we now know that the universe consists of atoms, these hard, hard, point-like like particles And then this quantum revolution takes place And the person I’m going to focus on is Paul Dirac Paul Dirac, like Einstein, through the mathematics, arrives at a puzzling insight into the nature of universe, namely that– well, actually, just like Einstein didn’t know how to interpret his own equations that said it was expanding, he altered them, with Dirac, what he was discovering in the equations was the appearance of negative energies and how to interpret that I mean, he didn’t know how to interpret it But he finally arrived at the idea of it, that this pointed to the notion of antimatter And he published that in 1931 He just went ahead and threw it out there And he talked about this ocean, an unseen ocean of potentiality, where these anti-particles existed 1932, Carl Anderson here in the United States actually discovered, discovered empirically, the first anti-particle, the anti-electron, soon to be called the positron But the amazing thing that Dirac arrived at was that the point-like particles of matter would disappear when they met their anti-particle You have a proton that meets an anti-proton, and it disappears in a flash of light So matter, then, instead of being something hard and gritty indestructible points, matter turns out to be something more like a flame, or exactly what it’s hard to say So both of these, I’m suggesting, are some of the reasons, two of the reasons, that the emergence of this story isn’t recognized It doesn’t quite fit with our underlying assumptions of the nature of the universe There’s a third counterintuitive, but I’m going to introduce that later What I wanted to do now was to talk about the idea of how this story will spread If this story is part of a change in the human species, then it will find a way into the minds and hearts of people other than the mathematics Because very, very few people can handle that And so the way I wanted to think about this with you was this– what would be the essence of this new story coming off science and technology?

What would be the essence that could be conveyed to our children? I mean, some of you have children Some of you will have children The fastest way to find out what one’s underlying story of reality is, is to ask ourselves, well, how do we explain the world to our children? How do we make it understandable, reasonable, whatever? I mean, at least when our children were young, we started off, my wife, it was like you want to protect children from the really harsh realities that are out there, but at a certain point, they have to be introduced to them And so you’re forced to give some kind of explanation to what’s going on I think that some of the difficulties we’re having as a human species is that we have these different ways of explaining the universe I don’t want to eliminate the diversity I simply wanted to indicate, here’s another way of providing an orientation to young people, using the images that we have that have come out of our science and technology So here I’m going to move to some images, and give you a sense of how I would suggest this story is being conveyed Or will be conveyed to our children OK, so I hit that There OK, fantastic So here would be the first image I would begin with And I would tell them, this is the Wilkinson map This is an image of the oldest things we have found in the universe This light comes from the furthest distance away So what we do know is that 14 billion years ago, the universe was very simple It consisted of hydrogen and helium atoms, and that was it And then as you– yes, OK And then, as we move forward in time, within a billion years, the hydrogen and helium atoms actually organized themselves in the form of the galaxies Now, this movement from hydrogen and helium to galaxies, the question is, how does this take place? And the phrase that is emerging is simply in terms of the self-organizing dynamics of the universe, the self-organizing dynamics of universe Up until the 20th century– So humans have been around for 200,000 years Up until the 20th century, we wondered about the band of light that we call the Milky Way And every culture, not every, but many, many cultures, had a story about what that band of light is And it was in the 20th century we began to resolve and see that there are stars And we realized we actually are inside of a galaxy, the Milky Way Galaxy, we call it But not scientists didn’t know if the Milky Way was the entire universe, or if it was one of many So Harlow Shapley at Harvard, he was convinced– he was the reigning astronomer in the early 20th century He was convinced the Milky Way Galaxy was the universe And so we don’t have a lot of experience with galaxies Then it was Hubble in the 1920s He realized that these smudges of light actually were far outside of the Milky Way Galaxy That was the moment when the understanding of the universe multiplied by a billion fold There has never been a moment in the history of humanity that we know about when the universe that was reflect upon in consciousness magnified to such an extent Like I was saying, we’re right in the middle of that change over When the scientists first began to look at the galaxies, they were stunned by the appearance of these arms And universally, they were thought to be made of matter

It was simply the way in which the stars were distributed But it was in the 1960s that, actually, the astronomers began to realize, no, no, no Those are not matter arms that are moving through space They’re actually density waves created by the galaxy as a whole And the density waves that are passing through the galaxy and igniting the stars They’re igniting stars that burn brightly for a million years, and then die out And then the wave goes on and ignites new stars I love this phrase, that when the first scientists were thinking about this, looking at the Whirlpool Galaxy, but a galaxy like this, and they’re realizing that it was the galaxy as a whole that was creating these stars I forget the name of the one, but he said, I realized we were looking at something like a cell, something like a biologically organism, a cell And that switch, I would say, would be very close to the fundamental change that is being called for by this emerging story, namely the switch from, we have assumed the universe consists of objects distributed throughout space, and now we began to realize that there are entities that are involved with self-organization That would be the fundamental shift– from objects to self-organizing events And then just a close up on some of the clouds So here we have a cloud of hydrogen, and helium, and the wave passing through It squeezes together the cloud, and ignite its old self-organizing dynamics And we have the birth of a star The star no longer needs that wave, that density wave It has its own dynamics Throughout the modern period, scientists wondered about where the heat came from the sun I mean, how is it possible? What was the source of it? Isaac Newton even wondered if maybe there was a giant pile of wood that was burning And he calculated that it would have to be at least 50,000 years before it burn out So it’s been burning 50,000 years Now that catapulted him out of the cultural story of his time Because the chronology was way, way different than he was Discovering But it wasn’t until the 1950s that we realize that the energy is coming from the nuclear fusion in the center I’m just trying to emphasize the fact that these were questions that no doubt entered into the minds of humans over the last 200,000 years We have evidence of cultural artifacts in South Africa that are 77,000 years old So I mean, were they thinking about the stars? It’s easy to imagine that that would come into their mind every now and then But it wasn’t until the 1950s, and I’m trying to emphasize the fact that so many of these things are just emerging, just coming together in our lifetime So then, again, to convey the story to young people, here we have this star that’s organized itself, and now we know where its energy is coming from It’s transforming itself from the very center It’s transforming hydrogen into helium And in the process, it’s converting four million tons into light every second So another four million tons, another four million tons That light emanates in all directions Earth captures one billionth of the light that’s left the sun And every human act from the beginning has been powered by that small little spike of energy, one billionth from the sun So it’s the greatest poetry is powered by the sun

The greatest insights in philosophy and mathematics, all of them, in a certain sense, can be considered solar events The human isn’t disconnected The human is actually in that flow of energy, and we’re bringing it into a new form, for sure, but its origin is the sun itself This is an exploding star, Eta Carinae It’s something like 7,500 light years away It’s 200 or 300 times bigger than our sun And this, I think, if there’s one thing I wish all children of the world could learn about the new story, it’s this I mean, it’s just such a spectacular insight, that the stars give birth They create the elements They create hydrogen, and they create helium They create carbon, phosphorous, and nitrogen– all of the elements And then through the explosion and the dispersal, our bodies are constructed out of them My wife teaches second grade, and so she has me come in and give talks to the kids every now and then And so there they are They’re seven years old And so I’m telling, I’m saying, the stars blew up, and they created the carbon and phosphorus– I use those words– the elements of our bodies, the elements they come from an exploding star And Ahmed, his eyes were just– he’s just staring at me, and I saw his hand just go up and touch his skin It was just such a great moment He was realizing He was discovering something about the nature of what it means to be a human being I mean, it was like this skin came from a star! It was like a larger identity He was moving out of understanding himself as an American, or a French person, or whatever– a larger and larger identity, every human being The way he touched his skin, he was entering into another moment in his life And then another time, that was second grade. then my wife also taught kindergartner So then I went in there and gave a little different kind of explanation And so one time I was telling them about the stars exploding I said, the stars, the stars, they gave birth to the elements of your skin And this little kid looked up at me and said, I know that And I don’t know Did he know it? Was he just trying to please me? I don’t know I mean, he’d only been here a few years, right? But it was just this sense Now, this notion that the stars give birth to the elements is from 1954, Fred Hoyle So just imagine So for 200,000, all the way through that time, when anybody wondered where does this stuff come from, no one knew, at least in recorded history No one knew with anything like our certainly that carbon comes from a star Another way to say it, maybe I’m belaboring the point, but for the existence of a single atom of carbon, we need a galaxy We have no way of imagining, at least scientifically, the construction of carbon atoms, unless we have a galaxy that’s creating stars that explode So what does it mean to be human? What does it mean? These are the kinds of questions that every cultural story will ask And the perspective that we have now, that to be human is to be a cosmic event, in certain ways We come out of a cosmic process So certainly we’ve been aware of the planets all around the world But then we wonder, are there other planets? 1992 is the first discovery of an exo-planet, and now there are hundreds that we’ve identified But just extrapolating, we imagine

there are many billions of planets, many billions of planets in the Milky Way alone And so we have two basic kinds We have gaseous planets Jupiter is like a small star that didn’t ignite And we have these rocky planets, like Mars I mean, astronomers know this, of course They’ve known this for a long time, but, again, the general public doesn’t realize that Mars is fundamentally different from Earth in terms of its overall dynamics And in a simple, phrase, Mars is like a solid rock all the way through It’s solid and fixed But this is the opposite of Jupiter, which is chaotic gases But right in between, in between the solid planets, totally solid, and the gaseous ones, there’s this range of where you have a balance between the gravitational interaction and the electromagnetic, and that the planet can remain fluid, in a sense So Earth occupies that slender range where it’s able to create structures, and yet, it doesn’t fixate So the lava, the lava comes forth But what distinguishes Earth from these other billions of plants, from Jupiter and Mars– it’s not the material The same minerals, the same atoms are present in all of these planets It is the fundamental dynamics coming from the size of Earth So the Earth, because it’s in between the chaos and the rigidity, it remains fluid, and we have lava coming forth And this would be the second most important thing I would like to convey to every child on the planet The Earth, because it’s in this creative zone, is able to evoke the creative dynamics that give birth to this This amazing being comes forth from this So molten earth precisely because it can bring forth the self-organizing dynamics of the universe, is able to bring forth the eyes Look at these eyes These eyes were brought here from some other place They are the ongoing development of molten lava So what in a sense, have we learned about this? What does this mean? I think it gives a sense of what it means to be creative The Earth is the most creative planet we know about It remains in this zone one phrase is balanced turbulence Remain in the zone of balanced turbulence and creativity happens It would be the same– Mars was molten for a while, but it didn’t it It froze up So we didn’t really get a theory of the this, of what Earth does, until the 1960s, with plate tectonics So again, so recent You see? We’re just getting to understand the overall dynamics of Earth as a whole But this anthropologist at UC Berkeley had a great phrase Trying to think about what it means to be human, he said this The ideal condition for a human being is not bovine placidity It is, rather, the highest degree of tension that can be creatively borne And I think of that as a way of also describing the Earth– not bovine placidity It’s not some rigidity fixed It’s the highest degree of tension This is also the third counterintuitive part of the new story Remember, I said there were three? This is the third one The third one is the relationship of consciousness to the universe as a whole We don’t have a theory of consciousness

that would match Dirac’s theory of Quantum Field Theory, or Einstein’s General Theory of Relativity I think we’re waiting for, it, and some scientists are convinced that when this theory emerges, it will be at a par with Einstein’s, a par with Darwin It’s like a piece that’s just coming forth But already, there’s a way in which what we’re discovering is counterintuitive Our default assumption around human consciousness, our default assumption is that it exists only within humans And this goes right back to Rene Descartes, the principal philosopher of the modern era Humans were conscious All else were mechanisms All other machines were mechanical And his point was that if you hear or if you see a dog suffering, you think the dog is suffering It’s really just malfunctioning machinery We project our feelings onto it So that was the dominant view throughout the modern period, but it’s been breaking down And there a great celebrated moment around this was the Cambridge Declaration Perhaps you’ve heard of it This was in 2012 Major brain scientists meeting at Cambridge University just made this statement that non-human animals, all mammals, all birds, even octopuses, have the neurological substrates of consciousness they came out boldly and said, in all of these creatures, there is some form of consciousness And I’ve just read The New York Times today, and scientists now, some scientists at Macquarie University in Australia, said that insects also have a form of consciousness And then there’s the whole question of robots Do robots have consciousness? I’m simply saying that this is yet another revolution in our understanding of the universe and how prevalent consciousness is Let me tell you a little story, though So I don’t have any giant opinion about that, but I do want to tell you this story So a friend of mine, Dr. Barbara Smuts at the University of Michigan, studies baboons And so she will live with them for years at a time And so she’ll travel with them, and she’ll eat the same things they do, and she just really lives their life There’s this one great story She fell asleep one time And something woke her up And she looked, and it was a young male baboon And it was, just to give you a close-up on the fingernail, the young male baboon had placed its finger right next to hers while she was sleeping And while she woke up, he was looking at her finger and her finger together, and then looking up at her, kind of astonished, and then back at the fingernail, and then back up her The primate intelligence was making a connection in the universe that was surprising This, in a real sense, I see as the very essence of a science itself Humans have forever been looking for these patterns And so this is Stonehenge Why? Why would they build this monument? Because they wanted to align themselves with the powers in the universe, the patterns, the processes in the universe And I think that we are still doing the same thing It’s an ongoing process I talk about the discovery of relativity and quantum field theory, it’s ongoing Consciousness So here’s Einstein I started off talking about how he didn’t believe the prediction of own equations Edward Hubble called him up He said, honestly, Al, you oughta come down here, take a look He did, and looked out, and what he saw was, well, as a poorer version of this This is from the Hubble telescope But Einstein was looking out, and he saw, in fact, the universe is expanding, the redshift

And so every one of these dots, except for the three stars over there, every one of these dots is a galaxy And this is obviously a still photo But in real time, they’re moving apart And then, in 1973, Stephen Hawking just did analysis of the movement itself He learned something alarming for all of us, that if you altered the expansion by one part and 10 to 16th, the universe, in either direction, if you alter it in one part and 10 to 16th, the universe would collapse, or it would explode So if you slowed it down by one part and 10 to 16th, it would collapse immediately into a black hole If the expansion had been greater than one part and 10 to 16th at the beginning, it would expand into dust– no galaxies So the question of the expansion rate of the universe is a major conundrum in theoretical physics No clear answer Why only want to emphasize one thing that Hawkings said that I think is just wonderful So here’s Hawking He’s attempting to make sense of this Why is the universe expanding this way? Why? And his answer, here’s his answer– “Because we are here.” “Because we are here.” And what did he mean by that? He meant that, first of all, if we’re here, if we’re here, if there’s anybody here, the universe didn’t collapse back down into a black hole And if there’s somebody here who’s thinking, it didn’t separate into dust So if we’re here, the expansion had to be exactly that rate Also, if there’s a complex human being here, who’s able to reflect on all of this, we’ve gotta build up organic life That takes billions of years That takes billions of years So for an intelligent observer to be noting the size and age of universe shows you what the universe has to be I had this picture on our wall back in New York And one of my wife’s friends was there, who’s a lawyer And when she asked what it was, I gave a quick little explanation, it’s the nearest million galaxies And she actually ran out of the room and across the street, because it was so overwhelming to her, so overwhelming To think of ourselves lost in the vastness, an insignificant little cipher in the vastness, is to be yet in the modern story What is the new story? What is the new story? The new story is like I’ve just said The universe is exactly what it would be for us to be here, meaning– another physicist put it this way This is the smallest universe we could fit into– the smallest We couldn’t fit anything smaller The universe, to build up this kind of complexity that we are, had to be this big Another phrase which I like so much is, we, humans, or any advanced form of life, fit into the universe like a hand into a glove So it gives a different orientation, a different kind of feeling So we’re coming to this understanding of the universe right as we are carrying out, unwittingly, a mass extinction of species So there’s never been an any destruction like what’s taking place now over the last 65 million years So right as we’re discovering the majesty of our universe, we’re ending an entire era of life I like to think this moment like the moment in the “Matrix” film So there’s Neo, and he’s being offered two pills And one pill is, just keep going with things the way they are

And the other pill is about recognizing that we don’t live in a collection of objects, but rather we’re a part of an amazing community of life And it’s almost we have this fundamental choice of consciousness to make Thank you so much Thank you for coming I really appreciate it I’d love to hear any reflections I don’t necessarily want to have only questions, just anything that you’re thinking about Like I try to indicate, this emerging story is unfinished for sure And so we all have different kinds of perspectives and orientations, and I’d love to hear any of those AUDIENCE: I’d love to know how your thoughts on how this new emerging story, which I guess I would term as cosmology or something associated with it, how that fits in, or how we can reconcile that with the old stories that are currently existing, if that’s even possible, or if we need to proactively help the demise of the old stories Is that too dramatic? BRIAN SWIMME: No. no AUDIENCE: I’m talking about science skeptics and other orientations of truths BRIAN SWIMME: Say the last part I missed it AUDIENCE: Other orientations of truth that may contradict it BRIAN SWIMME: Want to pick one? [CHUCKLING] No, no You don’t have to AUDIENCE: I’m just trying to be politically correct BRIAN SWIMME: Yeah. yeah, I see Well, no OK, your question, I mean, it couldn’t be more important and relevant I mean, how much of the violence taking place around the planet is related to just that question, right? So the fundamentalists, whether fundamentalist scientists, fundamentalist religionists, I mean, talking about fundamentalists from the point of your religion, many of them will regard science and materialism as the source of all the destruction taking place Insist that we would be named Satan And so what I’m trying to suggest is that if we can allow ourselves just to feel the majesty of what is before us, if we can just have to touch of awe concerning the universe, I think some of those disagreements and arguments will become less important I mean, even though I’m just amazed at what we’ve learned, all of us here know, if you go into it deeply enough, you realize we know next to nothing There’s so much more to learn So I think that the proper orientation is one of humility, one of deep, deep humility, and that if we begin with a sense that we recognize we’re on this journey of discovery, then we can see one another as part of the same journey And rather than identifying people as dead wrong, I think that’s a mistake Because I think that limits us down So my own sense is that science itself provides an amazing context for discussion So whether a person’s coming from an ancient religious point of view, or a more contemporary philosophical point of view, the discussion is going to take place within the universe So I don’t think science is going to make these kind of certain and finished judgments about the wisdom that exist in other traditions What’s your view? AUDIENCE: I tend to agree with you I do think that these co-exist in different ways, and they aren’t mutually against each other, despite what the politics of it tends to BRIAN SWIMME: Thank you AUDIENCE: I mean, I think the best orientation is one of curiosity and wanting to learn more And that’s something that I think is shared across all human beings in general So I think that’s something that I’d like to make centric as part of this new story BRIAN SWIMME: Yeah, curiosity I mean,

the things that we really do well as humans, what are they? We’re curious We discover things So that’s fundamental, for sure Yeah AUDIENCE: Yeah So I guess I agree, but I think, while you say curiosity is something that’s inherent, I think that perhaps humility is not something that is inherent to all people And so I think it’s an interesting perspective, because like you say, it’s all happening so very quickly And there’s things that have been engrained in human culture for a very long time that, sure, we can say they’re being answered, but if there’s a whole lot of people that don’t believe that it’s actually an answer, then it’s creating this divide So I’m not sure That’s not really a question It’s just a comment BRIAN SWIMME: No, I very much appreciate your comment What I tell myself is that I think the change in understanding that’s taking place is way bigger than the Copernican revolution It’s way, way huger And that required– if you go from Copernicus up to Isaac Newton, that was 144 years And so I think that the changeover point for us in terms of the story was 1964, when we discovered the background radiation And so had realized, wow, we really do have a new view So 1964, we have 144 years from 1964 So we’re in the middle of it That’s why I do it I tell myself that we’re in the middle of it, and so we have to be patient with ourselves and one another Again, thanks so much for coming [APPLAUSE]