Highest Paid Mafia Boss Tells the TRUTH About the Life

They said you are the highest moneymaker Mafia boss outside of alpha point you were making six to eight milliliter aspired to be made I was 17 years old my dad drew a 50 year prison sentence my best friend was walking in Philomath But the setup was bad. Yeah, I’ll be honest what I might have gotten killed So there’s a lot of people I sit down with and I meet but Michael I have to tell you you’re you’re one of the most fascinating people that I’ve been looking forward to sitting down with And you had Nicky eyes and Mikey franchisee When you hear about the modern day not even a modern day You know the movie Godfather everybody has a poster and you watch the movie, and you hear about Michael Corleone And you think is there really a character like that you pretty much are the real-life Michael Corleone leaper say of that story right so it’s exciting to be sitting out with you appreciate you for Making the time and welcoming us to your place here well Thank you, and I have been compared obviously to to Michael I think it’s a good comparison at times because Al Pacino he played a terrific role in that movie yeah, and there is a certain flow that I watch in the movie with them, and I see with you where the Mannerisms, it’s amazing how close that is With the mannerisms that you have on the way you speak So let’s get right into it if you don’t know Michael Franzese II let me give you some stats. Here’s the best way to Open it up. So you’ll know who we’re sitting down with so in 1986 Fortune magazine November 10th Fortune magazine there’s an article saying the 50 biggest mafia bosses right and And when you go through this The part in here that’s fascinating to me is the following they have you down on 18th place Right and then they had John Gotti at 13, so you look at this and you say well You’re 18 Gotti is 13, and then you have Anthony Salerno at first and you have some of these other name Persico, Carmine Persico you work with very closely for many years Salvatore Santoro some of these names that people know about the part that I looked at Michael there is not a single person on this list where there starts with the number three except for you Gadi was 46 you were 35 So we’re not just talking about somebody who made it to the high level of the Colombo family the five families the Colombo family yourself You did it at 35 years old? How was it being raised into that environment in that family? I would say I had a good role model as far as you know my dad being a real person of substance in that life and You know I love my father. He was he was everything to me growing up and You know he was an important figure there And it’s not that I tried to emulate him Patrick because I never thought I would be part of that life growing up. You know I had different thoughts I was gonna. You know I was an athlete. I was going to school. I was going to be a doctor But once I made a decision to get into that life I had as far as I was concerned the best guy in the world to Model myself after and that was my dad, I learned a lot from him directly watching all the things that was taking place Yeah, just the way. He carried himself. You know the way people Respected him the respect that he had for my mother And and my sisters and just the way he carried himself you know and he was a man’s man And you know from the time I was five years old my father drummed it into my head You know Michael you have to be a man’s man That’s the standard in Life you have to live up to he in many ways form the person that that I became later on in life Yeah, it’s so much street credit that you can tell if somebody did something to you And they knew who your dad was there was a line like you couldn’t mess with it How was it being raised in that environment? Well it was different. You know I always tell the story I was an athlete and Baseball was really my sport and my dad would never miss a game. No matter what he was doing mob business legit business I’d be playing ball. He’d show up He’d always come to the field late, and he’d pull up in a big black Cadillac or a black Lake And he’d get out of the car dressed sharp in a suit And he’d always have five or six guys with him because he never traveled alone And I’d be up to bat and they’d walk out on the field the umpire would take one look at him and never call strike Three on me, so I mean it had his advantages you know being Sonny Franzese his son You know he he was just a great father You know and obviously I knew there was something different about him, but my dad never spoke about it now It’s really never so you didn’t really know fully. What was taking place never from him I knew because he was such a high-profile figure that we lived in an environment Where law enforcement was around us all the time and he was? under surveillance from five or six different agencies from the feds right down to all the state and locals So they would Park cause around our house and follow us wherever we went

and you know I viewed them at that time as the enemy because I viewed my dad is my hero and So I knew who he was I obviously read the papers he had a lot of press And I observed things, but never from his mouth. He would never bring it into the house for in the house We were just the family that didn’t exist isn’t that interesting yeah door six areas I’d like to touch up on here with you One is story on how that life was to how the game because you wrote a book I’ll make you an offer you cannot refuse the game between What you have to experience now similar that is on the corporate side? I think there’s a lot to be learned from the entrepreneurs who? Watch this I do how to identify consigliere I really want to stay on that because what it means to be a conciliar II how do you identify that it’s a very? Fascinating way you talk about it in the book Human nature, you know how do you read through the BS? And how do you read through some people that are trying to take advantage of you? What are some of the things that you saw? And then some side questions about characters and then some fun questions at the end I will go through So why don’t we get into it as far as? When you knew and you said I want to get in how did you get into the whole you know family? I want to become a made man. How did that whole experience take place with you you know Patrick? I never aspired to be a made man You know I was on a different path in life but I was 17 years old when my dad drew a 50 year prison sentence and Went off to serve his federal time and I sat with my dad I visited him in the federal jail before they shipped him off to the penitentiary and he said to me Michael I’m innocent I didn’t commit this crime. It was alleged to have masterminded a nationwide string of bank robberies He said I never knew the witnesses I’m not a bank robber the witnesses were all drug addicts junkies and one thing I knew my dad hated anything to do with drugs My whole life. He preached against her He would make up stories about drug addicts to scare me never to take drugs So I knew he would never bother with people like this so I believed him And when he went away joe columbo the boss of our family who we were close with he kind of took me under his wing because my dad was his underboss and I started to meet a lot more of my dad’s friends. You know and they were influencing me Mike. You know What are you doing going to school? I was a pre-med student at that time shortly after that you know if you don’t help you father out. He’s gonna die in prison So I went to see him in Leavenworth And I said that I’m not going to school you’re gonna die in here if I don’t help He didn’t want that. I mean he kind of argued. No. I want you to go to school get an education I said dad. It’s too late my mind is made up and he said to me He said if you’re gonna be on the street then I want you on the street the right way in his mind the right way was to become a member of his life and He proposed me at that point for membership into the life And you know the interesting thing Pat My father even at that point never told me what the life was about You know you’re not supposed to talk about that life with anybody outside of it, and he wouldn’t violate that policy even with me It’s on something my dad’s a good soldier He just said go home somebody would be in touch with you do whatever you’re told. It was kind of on the job training and two weeks later I sat with the boss, and you know he ran things down for me and Told me what to expect and for the next year and a half I was kind of a recruit where I kind of learned the life had to do anything I was told to do to prove myself worthy, and then Halloween night 1975 is one it was formally inducted into that life you remembered vividly Vividly yeah And how was what was that process like was there ritual was there an experience you had to go through very very Solemn ceremony very serious six of us walked into a room individually towards midnight that night It was a very secure setting obviously I walked into a room the boss was seated ahead of like a horseshoe configuration the underboss in the console area to his left and right all of our capo regimes our captains alongside of them, and I Walk down the aisle stood in front of the boss. I held out my hand He took a knife right here cut my finger some blood dropped on the floor. This is a blood oath. I cupped my hands He took a picture of a saint Catholic Baltic Cod put it on hands eluded a flame It didn’t hurt it would burn quickly It was just symbolic and he said tonight Michael Franzese you are born again and to a new life until of course I know stir this thing of ours violate what you know about this life betray your brothers And you will die and burn in hell like this Saint is burning in your hands. Do you accept yes? I do and that’s it. That’s the ritual. That’s wart and sweet But extremely serious now there was six of you the six of us we went in individually you take it alone Got it And then out of these six apparently you’re the only one that’s alive so all that they’re all dead One of them died in natural causes every one of them were murdered Wow So why are you still here? You know because if you if you read the story and you you you you put yourself out there And it’s not like you went in you Ratted people out or you became an informant there’s nothing there that people will say even some of the guys that Were upset that you stepped away. They don’t call you Informer. They just say you know

It’s impressive to see that he was able to make it and we’re proud of them even some of your enemies are saying good things About you what how did you how was that process for you never hear somebody? Survive when they leave the family how did that happen with you? Well you know Patrick? I don’t I didn’t have any grand plan because there’s no blueprint to walk away from that life not enter a program and survive and You know I’m only saying this because it’s a fact. I don’t know of anybody else that has done that successfully Especially at the level that I reached because I was at a pretty high level You know I didn’t know how it was gonna work out. I knew that when I walked away People are gonna be upset you don’t walk away from that life You’re not allowed to renounce it, and I had a lot of trouble as a result, but you know For me, there’s two sides of this There’s a spiritual side obviously I’m a person of faith and the bottom line for me is I believe God had a different plan and a purpose for my life and over the past 20 years I’ve seen more evidence of that and I’m very secure with that. It’s God’s plan but aside from that You know I realized that God never throws you into the fire without preparing you first So I spent 20 years in that life at a very high level and I was a good student of the life I observed in our why and I I reached a certain level there, so I knew I had to make changes You know one of the horrors about that life, and I don’t know if you know this But you might be in trouble in serious trouble your best friend walks you into a room You don’t walk out again and unfortunately I’ve experienced that in my life with other people and so I said okay They’re not gonna walk me into a room. They’re gonna have to work to get me. I move out of New York I would have never made it in New York. I move way out across the country to California It’s one thing to try to walk somebody into the room. It’s another thing to send a hit squad to try to get somebody who knows what’s going on and I never put a house in my name no utilities. I I never went to any nightclubs bad place for me I know who hangs out there somebody sees me. They make a call to New York. They want to be a hero I walk in a parking lot boom. I’m gone. I stop creating patterns in my life I never went to the same restaurant every Tuesday night, and never walked my dog every morning at seven o’clock So if somebody was scoping me they had a they had a tough time in figuring out where I was and I was very Disciplined in that very disciplined because I never sell my former associates short It was very capable guys there, and then what happened I Just outlasted everybody I mean who went to jail who got killed we had a big war in our family in the early 90s about 13 guys got killed another 20 or something went to jail for life And I just outlasted everybody and you know the major thing for me was that I never testified against anybody I didn’t send anybody to prison I didn’t put anybody in trouble had I done that it would have been a lot worse It would have been a lot worse because some people had Personal feelings against me because when I left you know look I was making a lot of money a lot of people were earning with me And when you shut that off people get upset and they resented that you know especially my boss at the time but the fact that he didn’t hurt anybody over a period of time that really went my favor and Listen you know there’s no guarantees You know I’m still careful when I go to a certain place. He’ll feel today Oh, yeah, really so the level of paranoia is not gone. It’s not paranoia, and I you know it’s not a macho thing I don’t want you to think that but I just feel very secure But you know look God doesn’t tell you to be stupid. I can’t go back to Brooklyn say hey guys I’m moving back into a book or you know it would be like thumbing my nose at that face So I don’t do that, but you know listen. I’m a speaker. I’m out in front of thousands of people every week I’ve signed books for hundreds of people. I don’t know who’s on that book line. You know you never know you know I’m not a kid anymore You know God has blessed me with with good things in my life, and I think I’ll be around for a while longer But if not I mean, what could you do I mean? That’s that’s how I look at things it it seems Michael that you’re very result I mean when I when when speaking to you there’s none of it that you’re uncomfortable which was fascinating but Talking about numbers. I don’t know if everybody really knows. What kind of numbers you were bringing in the numbers I read about you were making six to eight mil awake six to eight million per week and you were selling a half a billion dollars of gas per month and They said you are the highest moneymaker mafia boss outside of Al Capone I mean There’s a lot of people that are making money with you How did that happen people think that mob guys sit around and their social clubs and we start to target different? Businesses well we’re going to take that over. I’m going to do this normally doesn’t happen that way What happens is people come to us people would come to me with all sorts of deals? And it was mostly guys that came inside their company that had a way to make some money And they figure they can do with me I can protect them I can finance and we have strengths you know all that and That’s how this happened in the gas business some guy came to me at a very small Gasoline operation, and he said you know I have a way to defraud the government out of tax on every gallon of gasoline

was attractive to me because at that time I didn’t like the government and You know my targets back then were always bigger companies I didn’t go after small the list of companies they CLA you didn’t go out there No, I didn’t go after so I figure the ones that can afford it nope And the government was a huge company so what happened he had a couple of other wise guys that were kind of trying to extort him in his business and I was able to solve that for him, and then we went into business together And I’ll tell you how it happened I I put somebody with him because I didn’t know him that well, and I said I’m gonna put this fellow with you We’re gonna see exactly what you got going on and we’ll try to figure this out Well the guy put with him was a butcher He was my butcher big guy at a scar across the top of his said big Vinny We called him, so he’s coming home every Saturday. He would bring meat to my house right so this Saturday He pulls up, and he’s got this big box on his shoulder and I said What do you don’t want all that meat are we having a party or something? I don’t know about it He says hey chief at a meat. I said what is it? He’s to come on in the kitchen we go in the kitchen he puts the Box down. He opens it up $280,000 he said, that’s the first week steak in the gas business and Long story short he really got my attention at that point I grew that 280 into At times almost eight million dollars a week bring it her week her will get down and basically you know devised the scheme built upon what that little germ of an idea that he had and We were defrauding the government out of tax on every gallon of gasoline it was 20 to 40 Cents depending where you were located the government couldn’t figure it out. We had a very efficient scheme put together They just couldn’t figure it out We were always one step at it, and is this part of a whole Rico story Which was you know? What kind of link to that where? corporation after corporation after corporation and then last one He would follow bankruptcy And this this was figured out on how to avoid paying the taxes which allowed you to kind of compete against your marketplace So you had guys that were buying a million gallons all of us under buying two three then they’re doing ten million Gallons from you, and you’re one of the biggest vendors to them better We would you’re not even middle east don’t know from Texas. You know you’re Italian doing this. I had probably 300 gas stations We had branded and non-branded Stations and what we would do is. Let’s say it was a Mobil station I’m just picking that out because we dealt with a show And we go to a station say how much you paying for a gallon of gas? It’s not paying a dollar now How would you like to pay 95 cents the five cents is big sake boys? He said great? I said I’ll tell you what you do you how many gallant how many loads a week you’re getting from mobile Oh, we’re getting six all right by three from them by three from us. We’ll deliver in the middle of the night We’ll save you that by the end of the day. They wanted to deliver. They wanted us to service them ball They didn’t want to buy anything from opal anymore. I said you can’t do that You got to keep you a brand nobody can compete with us And if we bought a couple of gas stations like I remember one incident there were four gas stations on the corner big ones We bought one of them, and I went to the other three and I said now. Here’s the deal I Said I’m gonna be the lowest guy in a corner. I said if you sell for 95 I’m gonna sell for 92 if you sell from 92 I’m gonna go down to 80 until I put you all out of business, so let’s keep it at a certain level and we don’t have to compete told them that so there was a regulator number that we’re doing with so no one’s I Said if you guys stay at this number you’ll be fine if you try to compete with me I’m gonna knock you out because you can’t compete with me and pretty soon. They were all buying for me anyway They’ll never be anything like that again. I don’t know if I read this right I saw you talk about it where one of the guys you did business with was this the oil guy who for eight years tracked everything that you were doing who was actually the guy that ended up becoming the Informant that gave me formation either. You know stop the entire operation yeah, he was my partner. He’s passed away now We never had an ill word and seven years that we were together my kids called him uncle Larry His kids called me uncle Michael, but the whole time. I was his meal ticket because he knew if he ever got in trouble that I was a guy that they would want so he kept a Diary on me He testified against me in one case a big case would rudy giuliani, and I did me and I was acquitted so the jury still Didn’t believe him you’re making all the family’s money now. They’re all kind of happy about you, but at the same time You know you’re there as well. What happened when all of a sudden you were growing a little too fast What kind of threats did you start seeing at that point where there’s some people that were power people saying wait a minute? I don’t like this guy having this much power Yeah, you know what happened. I had a couple of things against me number one I was a younger guy and the older guys tend to resent you You know you’re young you’re doing all this you’re making all this money and that comes with the territory He can’t help that you try to deal with it as best you Can you know you’re not flaming that fire so to speak, but it happens? And then you know I had teamed up with the Russians I had all the Russian mob guys in Brighton Beach Brooklyn were all my partners And they were pretty big crew and I think it was Newsday

Publication out in Long Island had written a story that I was becoming so powerful I was gonna break away from the Colombo’s and start my own family No truth to it whatsoever was like a fairy tale fiction made up, but it got into people’s heads and you know my boss started to question some of the Russian guys and Something started to happen like that and I knew it so I was on my guard about it You know my father And I discussed it my dad was always in and out of jail on parole so when he was out. We talked about these things But I knew I had to watch myself. You know it comes with the territory What was the one event that happened where you’re kind of like listen? I got a started taking a look at what’s going on with me was it Joey Columbo story was at the Castellano What God he did to him or what was it what you’re like listen? I’m gonna start paying a little bit more attention on what’s going on the marketplace right now you know it wasn’t that it was it was an incident that I had personally with my boss when they they basically walked me into that room and really, put me on the hot seat because there was a story that said that I would I had stole two billion dollars from the Government, and I’m handing a family two million dollars a week, and so I mean I got questioned You know what I’m saying two billion dollars Michael. I said hey My answer was when they write about everybody else. It’s a lie when they’re writing about me all of a sudden It’s the truth I said come on man. I’m giving you guys all this money. You don’t have to do anything I’m taking care of everything. You know I put nobody in trouble nobody’s on the line here if anybody goes down It’s going to be me and my crew I said well. What’s going on here You know so I got a little upset about it, and then I was talking to the boss And you don’t lose your head with the boss, but I got al angry And then I had a I have told myself down a little bit you know on it and but that put me on the alert, and I said, you know I got to really watch myself here because You know mistakes here you pay dearly for in life And I kind of just like I said put me really on my guard yeah, I’ll be honest her I thought it was I thought I might have gotten killed that night You know did the set up was bad my best friend was walking me until Roma was a it was a room in Brooklyn I’ll be honest with ya You know I had a walk out of the car and into that house and base that basement apartment. It’s probably a 30 yard walk that was either the longest or the shortest welcome Wow I mean I as I speak now I Can hear the crickets chirping? And I can remember the smell of the flowers Alone because you know Petro gallant someone you think you’re gonna meet your maker and I was in a religious guy at that point you start to pray and I was I was nervous I Tried not to show it because I said hey if this is it this is it You kind of get conditioned to them yes, but uh yeah, that was the night And I didn’t appreciate it years later now because you have you hear stories that your father was involved, and he wasn’t involved How do you feel about that whole situation? Where was your dad really kind of saying let’s find out if Michael is really making this money And I’m not you know we’re not getting a piece of it. How did you respond to that at that time? I think my dad kind of threw me under the bus a little bit that night He you know he went in separately and I was told that he didn’t defend me He just kind of backed off and said hey if my son is stealing he does everything. I don’t do anything I was I’m on parole. He handles everything and knows on bad terms at that time. No we want a great term Well it really hurt you know because I said man it kind of gave me really pause because I said you know If this life can separate father and son what do we really have here? I never said anything to him because you know again in that life you learned to keep things quiet until you were at the right time and But it really put me on notice that I got to really be careful I was very disappointed in him I didn’t it didn’t change my love for him or anything But I was extremely I was really disappointed it really hurt How do you from a moment like that that’s it? That’s a big scar? This is a man that grew up you need to be a man’s man from five years old You know he’s shaping you into who you are, and he’s coming through James. He’s always at your game How do you from that moment trust anybody else and not believe that? You know at some moment somebody could turn um is that the faith part that completely changed it that brought the peace? It did you know I? Understand my father. I know he’s really a product of that life And I kind of understood even though I didn’t appreciate it. I know my dad still loved me. It wasn’t anything like that It’s very hard to explain to anybody else so I gave my wife has a real problem with this She says you know you know how do you forgive that I used to tell her you don’t don’t worry about it It’s okay, and you know we have this special bond between us, and I understand the life I’m a product of who but it was still disappointing because I would have never done that to him But I’ll tell you what I almost thanked him for it now because I’ll tell you this Patrick I met my wife two years after that and That’s when I made the decision to walk away from that life But if this innocent incident didn’t happen with my dad I don’t think I would have ever walked away Wow I think that was God’s Way of Separating me from this bond or this hold that my dad had on me so I’d look back and I said actually it was a good thing because I

Don’t think I would have walked away. It’s amazing. How you process it that way. I mean. I don’t know who Can sit there and go through that and not think of a different way, but the way you’re processing his demand that Did this to give your life? Maybe a second chance type of a situation very interesting so and now he’s 100 years old You know you were telling me. You know he had a surgery recently. He’s doing good. He’s still sharp. He thinks he’s gonna Live a long time which is great He still talks to me like I’m part of that life He’s unbelievable reminiscing and telling old stories that you remember Michael, Oher. Yes, you know I always say this look My dad did a lot of rough things in his life So did I I went to jail for crime that I was guilty of but? You know that particular crime that he did 38 years in prison for he was innocent off And I’ll take that to my grave real awe hundred percent. I investigated that case Spoke to every witness they recanted that testimony we gave him why detective test proved they lied at the trial The FBI was complicit and turning them against my dad. It was a bad case. She was framed thousand percent people say well You know he got away with so much. That’s not how our system supposed to work They have enough tools and weapons the government to get people the right way They’re not supposed to do that no matter what or who you are because they’re they do it against the bad guys one day they Can do it against the good guys if it suits them so I always say tell people look You wouldn’t want my dad’s life in the last 50 years that man suffered did 38 years in prison My sister died of an overdose of drugs while he was away my brother was a drug addict my brother actually turned against my father went into the witness protection program and testified against him and got him thrown back in jail my kid brother I Mean my father was destroyed over there You know my mom passed away in the last years before she passed away I Can only describe their relationship as ugly? She blamed him for everything on 33 years without a husband she blamed him for everything that went down so I mean the guy’s suffered Tremendously and I have a real heart for that. You know. I love my dad and we patched things up. You know it’s amazing how? You know people said I’d never have a relationship With him again that you know when I walked away and God has brought it full circle, and I found out one thing Patrick You have to give children or children want to love their parents you got to give him a real recent not to love their parents Powerful absolutely, I’m just thankful that we have this relationship again So Sparks restaurants famous for you know Paul Castellano is where he got shot outside by John Gotti and that whole relationship, how was possible Castellano was he really just a money business guy I knew Paul I didn’t know him well because she was a boss I was young at that time but I was in his company quite a bit, and I did have an incident with him and Quite honestly you know the word on him on the street was not great I don’t think he had a lot of real friends on the streets especially any other families. I know in our family They didn’t talk well about him more of a business guy You know that kind of a thing I think people think that maybe he didn’t earn the position that he had because he was so Close to car loan Carlo gave him that spot you know it went down with Gotti I mean it was it was either him or Gotti at that point and John made the move and you know in our life There’s no election process You know if you’re gonna take over you’re gonna take over the hard way you don’t rival a boss and look for votes You rival a boss by eliminating. You know look money is always at the root of just about everything there You know if you were good you make people earn people like you. That’s the bottom line You know and if they don’t like it they’ll tolerate you because you’re earning with them, but he was kind of known to be a greedy guy, and he didn’t fit the the Profile of the real mob boss in a way, you know God. He doesn’t make that move on his own He kind of solicits people Hey, what do you think he tries to get some support that if this would have happened You know how are people gonna react? So he kind of knew how it was gonna work out if he took him out every time you had a running with them You’ve had obviously many run-ins with them. You’ve done a couple sit downs with them. How was Gaudi like personality-wise? Why did he have this you know? Larger-than-life story the nowhere near the kind of money you brought him What made him that special? Well, you know he was he fit the Hollywood profile so to speak and he had the look you had the mannerisms You know one thing. I will say about John. I happen to like him. You know socially a lot of fun We were going a club give me a lot of fun, and he was a good guy to be around business he didn’t really understand business and And it was a nightmare dealing with him in that respect because one thing about Gotti in his mind He always tried to come out on top he can never be a loser never so it’s very hard to negotiate And do anything you had to make him think that he won. Even if you were winning It was the only way to get around and get something at him So you had to kind of have that mentality going in with him But I was very difficult to deal with in that regard

I respected him because he made no bones about who he was yeah. I’m a gangster. I’m a mobster. I love this thing That’s all I am and that’s all I ever want to be it was public about that It was public about it and that was it you know people say he destroyed the life. He didn’t destroy the life I mean we all destroyed the life You know the government just won up to us with their technology with the laws with the informants they had I remember reading this what you said when you went to prison didn’t bother you When he went to prison he got bullied in prison my father taught me something They should Mike when you go into prison remember three things three words that are gonna. Take you Make you have an easy go of it with other guys Remember to say please. Thank you and excuse me You know because you bump into somebody excuse me, you know yes somebody please may I have this you don’t cut in front of people on a line because Everybody that so many guys rather I should say that got no respect on the street Want to get all the respect in there because they’re putting on a show for everybody else So little silly things become major things got it so you can’t throw your weight around now. You can’t take any nonsense But you know people have to understand you may be the silent type, but don’t mess with me And I’m not gonna disrespect You don’t disrespect me and John carried himself differently paid the price And I know a few guys that did that so business you wrote this book I’ll make you an offer you can’t refuse when I read books. You know leave my mark and write down I made so many marks in this that was just in it’s a it’s a small book. You know what I’m amazed I will tell you if you haven’t read this book you have to read this book It was in oh nine, which social media wasn’t around I hope we can make this book become a phenomenon because I think every entrepreneur Salesperson leader must read this book so make a list of it We’ll put a link on the bottom for you to get as well. You linked it between Business and the Mafia life that you went through and you talked a lot of a lot of different parts of it Tell me about the sit-down which was obviously very big in the in the business you were in and sit down to us, maybe we go into a boardroom and You know we’re Center negotiating with our investors, or you know you know Advisory Board whatever it is How was sit down like for you guys? Well, it was it was the basis or the the format in which we resolved everything I mean anytime we had a resolve a business dispute Something more serious. We did it at a sit-down as we called it It’s funny because my publisher after they read that chapter. They don’t have any more meetings then the Whole place doesn’t sit down these were high-level Very sophisticated meetings believe it or not and we had certain rules You know if you’re a made guy, and you’re at a sit-down you had to be respectful no matter what the situation was in other words if I’m a made guy, and I’m arguing something and I’m lying and you know I’m lying you can’t call me a liar if you call me a liar you lose the argument automatically you have to figure out a way to make people know that you’re wrong that this guy is wrong, and I’m right and The old time was very tactful at this you know they would try to get you into a trap Or you would just say something and you’re done. It’s all over so you had to really learn how to Respectfully get your point across and you had to know the mentality of the personality of the person going in well You don’t defeat him these old-timers were smart. You know they were cagey I had so many of these because it was like every day in my life when I was in the gas business I had somebody trying to take over somebody trying to get in because you know in New York There’s a lot of us and we were constantly engaging with one another on different matters And I had a big crew so the guys are my crew got in trouble at it sit down one other bit was constant business so you learn how to carry yourself there, and it really helped me in my negotiation skills in business it really helped because Going in I would figure out what I wanted what I would settle for And I would keep you know I learned one thing it’s always great to let the other person talk Let them talk let them just keep talking throw out a word that gets from a little bit and he’ll talk more and as he’s talking you can kind of figure out his mentality as personality what you can get out of them what you can’t get out of them and It helped me a lot in negotiating deals later on And you know sometimes you may be the smartest person in the room And you don’t want anybody to know that You just want to keep quiet like you don’t know anything let them think they’re smarter than you And there’s other times when you’re not the smartest person in the room But you want people to think you are so you have to learn how to have that skill Were you a big reader because what you just said is art of war right so you know when you’re strong You know you got to show that you’re weak when you’re weak You got to act strong, so were you one that’s I mean obviously. I you read Machiavelli Prince. That was kind of the Bible for

The family right, but were you always reading no, I wasn’t a big reader honestly I became a reader in prison did I have a lot to do, but no it’s just something I developed I think Along the way one real talent that helped me a skill or two number one I recognized a good deal because I got a lot of stuff thrown at me and I recognized what was good and what wasn’t going to work, and that’s important because you can waste your time with stuff all day long and Secondly was I always say I knew how to put the right people in the right place and Get them and motivated them to do the work properly my mantra always was at that time do what you do best and delegate the rest and then make sure they do the job and That always worked for me until today You know there’s things that I’m just not good at and I don’t even try to do them I don’t want to be bothered with it, but I’ll get somebody’s gonna do them see it a whole lot better. Oh, yeah Yeah, I had to so who was the best guy you saw to sit down were you every time you went there You know he was gonna be able to sit down you either learned a lot from him Or you knew this was not gonna be an easy one Yeah, well God he was tough I mean You know you knew going in you had just outsmart him and let him think he want But you get out of there with what you really do Oh, yeah, Wow yeah, you know I had to deal with him long story showed me sounds silly but it wasn’t at the time we had a big flea market a swap meet and there were two partners there one of them was an accountant legitimate guy and he was my guy and There was another guy that he was partners with that was kind of a street guy And they couldn’t get along and the kid was stealing out of the market so the guy came to me so I threw the kid Out of them I said you can’t come back you’re done. We’re taking it over well He runs to John and John says he gets in touch with me smite This kid belongs to me and half the market is mine I said John the guy didn’t even know who you were he ran to you now all of a sudden You know him your whole life. You know. That’s what happens in that life, so I have a big sit-down and We can’t get along and I said I told my guys that you’re never gonna get along with this guy And I’m never gonna get along with John in this market. I said so we have to do something either We’re gonna buy him out Or he’s gonna buy us and so I knew at the time that he would never stand for me buying him out Never pride yeah pride, so I had to I had to have him buy me out But if I told him to buy me out he wouldn’t buy me out So I went in then we sat down at Sir John. I’m buying you out and the first words It’s like I knew it you don’t buy me out. I bought you out. I said no. I’m buying it We went back finally I gave in I said I buy me out. You know she buys me out You know we get out. We share the money or whatever three months later The market went down it closed because I knew what they were gonna do now who got the better end of the deal I don’t know cuz I know what I got who knows how much he got what he busted the market out But it worked out better that way, but you know he thought he won You know he could tell everybody he got me out of the market and meanwhile I got what I wanted so that’s how you had to deal with him Very interesting anybody else that was very good to sit down. That was a different approach than him. You know I sat down, Castellano He was rough you know he was small business But you know he’s a boss so he can throw his weight around a little bit more and you had to be mindful of that you know But you had to be respectful and just hold your ground you know and but he was good It was really good. I sat down with Fat Tony Salerno was the boss of the Genovese family I like Tony a lot. You know. I really like to really respected him. He was very good the old time was good younger guys Not so much But you know I had an advantage. I mean oh he said my father You know early on was my mentor so he kind of He kind of gave me clues as to how to how to go in and win and he was good 35 It’s like you were the LeBron James of the era right. I mean you were the youngest guy. I mean, it’s 11 years is the difference to the second-youngest guy And that’s guy and you’re doing it at 35 sitting with these powerful guys negotiating Michael How was compensation figured out okay 40 cents? I’m bringing half a billion gallons six to eight million a week how is the money spread so the soldiers you know and then you got how was that spread is was there a Arrangement that was everyone knew how the numbers will be a 10% you or five percent or twenty percent here or would everything vary and nothing was really a Steady number that would always be there. I had my own formula, and I discussed it with my father, and we came to this conclusion If it was it was legitimate deal I didn’t have to give anybody anything was my deal like I had a couple of automobile dealerships I had a movie I had a lot of stuff legitimately that was mine, so if you if you started and nobody else helped you start It’s 100 percent you or it’s mine, and you don’t have to share any of it No unless I took him at his upon God It gave me money if God ever no it was totally my God my legit stuff was mine the street stuff was different like when I when I first got involved with the gas business, and I knew what I had I want to see my boss I Said to him. I said jr.. I’m on to something this Persico I said I’m gonna show you more money than you ever seen before and he said we don’t do drugs

I says not drugs. You know I’m not into that I said I’m into the gas business. I said, but here’s the deal I don’t need you to do anything but When other families learn of what we have everybody’s gonna want to get involved. I said as soon as that happens We’re gonna blow it. I said you’ve got to keep this within the family I said if we have an argument you got to make me win You got to make me win don’t play politics nothing you do that for me and I’ll show you more money than you ever saw before and he said show me and I’m starting to bring him every week all you had to do is sit back and ask him for anything, right? But every time we had to sit down. I had to win now I’m bringing him two million dollars a week that buys a lot of loyalty and my formula was if I Brought the deal in and I didn’t need anything from you you got 25 percent of anything 25 percent goes back to the family Got it If I needed you in some way like money from you or whatever that was different than when maybe you know maybe of my full partner Elliott everything was a 25% 25% was my deal and I was a captain so there was nobody between me and you So I gave it to him like if I was a soldier I’d have to give it to my captain my captain then would give it to him, and they’d work it out once You’re a captain you only report up right? There’s nobody directly to the boss you talked about consigliere right counselor I can tell you I am where I’m at right now because I’ve had Some amazing advisors in my life. I can’t even we’re talking about deadly earlier. We talked my certain You know Tom and some of these other guys that have affected my life How do you know who is a concealed area where you can open up with like in your world? That’s a big part of your life in your business, so how do you identify one and? When do you know this is gonna be the guy that I’m gonna go to the console area is an official position in our life there was a coroner made man or four there’s one kansui area in every family and The console Gary his official position is that he is the liaison between the men and the boss? In other words in that life. We’re told this everybody is equal you may be the boss, but you’re still equal You don’t have better rights than the soldier. We’re all made guys. We’re all equal. You just happen to have a different position You’re in control But we’re equal you can’t you can’t violate a soldier’s right either so if a soldier has a Problem maybe with the boss or something he’s supposed to go to the console Gary and the console area straightens it out with the boss That’s in theory. How it is in practice It doesn’t work that way because the boss appoints the console area and If you have a problem with the boss and you go to the console area you’re probably going to get killed or get in trouble so you never said anything to the console you ever it was kind of a nonsense position you know and usually it was it was a guy that the boss Respected that you know he would want things off of and they discuss things together and figure out what they have to do in any Situation you didn’t have an individual considered But I obviously the guy that I trusted the most and talked with was my dad if I had something that I thought I needed Advice with I talked her I was immediately I was it It’s good to have that one person there that you could go to and say look You know especially my dad cause he knew the life shoulder sir well What made a very good conciliate so if you were to say here’s? What makes a very good conciliate? What would you say it was? Wisdom he had another life. He had it have good discernment. You know. Uh you know how to figure things out He should be a cool tempered guy and He should be sincere you know and not have his own personal agenda That’s important, but that’s rare. Tell me it’s rare in that like there’s so much politics that goes on there You really had to be careful What was the benefit of being a consigliere it’s a high position? You know it’s it’s I mean the underboss in the country area. We’re kind of equal really really Wow so that that much of a respected position so let’s transition to human nature you know what were what were some of the things that you learned where you would go and have a sit-down or you’d meet with people and You would say I don’t know if I feel comfortable with this guy I don’t know if I trust this guy I feel comfortable trust in this guy was there a methodology that you eventually put together Or was it still an intuition type of thing when you were reading people it was more intuitive I would say because everybody was so different Obviously if you had experience with somebody more than once then you know all right. I know I’m up I’m in for with this guy, but it was more intuitive because again with me I had so many you know with so many different people and III pretty well knew you know when you you start to get some experience in that life you know right away You know when somebody’s out to get you and so to speak You know they’re looking to you know not make things turn out for you well

you know you just deal with it because that would have some probably a Person who ends up becoming a boss in that world you have to be very good in human nature you know you’ve got to be able to figure it out and see who’s even if you have a sit down you’re sinner you’re looking at this guy saying that guy’s not on my side this guy’s armed I Said that guy’s in the middle this guy there was a lot of that probably going on all the time Yeah, you know you know the problem though with that life. You know that life is like it’s like a wheel turning around and the guy that’s on the bottom today can end up being on the top tomorrow and You always had to be mindful of that so For instance you know in Gatti’s case You know he could add a soldier close to him that was nobody really and then all of a sudden God He’s the boss and how this guy becomes somebody So a guy that you didn’t have much respect for Now you better respect God, so Because of that you always tried to treat people the very way yeah There is you never know you know where that guy’s gonna be the next day or the next week And then he’s got it in for you And then you got a problem that is that is very Interesting when you think about that because you that guy comes up the influence is gonna be with him, right So let’s transition into some interesting character so Rudy Guiliani Right he keeps coming up right and he wants to clean house as you want is what he wants to do Rudy says a guy who wrote a book man of honor Marathon Man on on Who’s the person thought oh okay? So he writes the book And then he gives the blueprint To them to know what the rico game was and he puts that together And they had the best FBI agent at that time some guy named Lindley or Lynn You know that he knew how to go and create an informants? And he goes and figures out with the Green Reaper the Scarfo I think So how is that really true that anymore okay? Don’t believe any of that I mean Giuliani says that the reason he he was in he had a position in Washington DC in the Department of Justice and His story was that Joe Bonanno wrote this book and He being an italian-american Giuliani was so insulted by this book because he made The Mafia out to be like a family like it was a very legitimate great thing and he wasn’t so insulted by a Giuliani that he had a clean house because of it and That’s why he came to New York and became the US Attorney there so he could attack the mob and clean house I don’t know if I believe that I think he was an opportunistic guy and being a US attorney in Manhattan is an extremely prestigious position and He picked Our guys to go after and build his career at that point in time, and he did a great job of it I mean, let’s face it. He has that repetition till today Yeah I mean he was very capable at what he did The racketeering the RICO statute had been on the books for over ten years when Rudy came in but nobody ever used it He learned or he saw how to use it effectively and he started using it against us And it was designed to be used against us but nobody ever did it and it’s an it’s extremely difficult law to to Navigate around I mean I had three Rico indictments to me. I mean I think it’s an Unconstitutional law, but it’s a law and nevertheless it’s on the books so you live with it But uh, you know he just was determined to make his name on us guys And he did did you ever have a one-on-one running with them? I had one well in the courtroom today. I was He indicted me on a big RICO case and the day of my arraignment I had he was giving me bail And he came up to me and he said Frances if I convict you on this case I’m gonna give you double what your father got you got to get a hundred years, and that’s the kind of time they’ll give it told me straight out and I said Rudy I beat you guys three times. They’re ready Let’s go for round four I told him you know that’s kind of arrogant back then But uh, you know I was on 12 for several months and I was as a lead defendant And I was acquitted in that case some of my code events are convicted I got 30 years, so he I would have probably got at least 50 if I lose that case So to say that I won that case was a blessing as an understand why I’d still be in prison Wow What do you think about Rudy today? What do you feel like when you see Rudy today on TV? I mean Sun News was on so when you watch TV, and you see him. What how do you? How do you look at him when you you know? I don’t know I’m okay with him. I mean it’s not personal You know I actually saw him one time he actually He said some good things about me later on Because when I was walking away from that life most of the people in government said ads a fraud He’s not really walking away And he’s pulling a scam over the government like he didn’t a gas business everybody said that but Rudy said you know what? He’s pretty smart guy, and he knows this life is on the run, and I think his walking away may be genuine He said that early on with your with you was within the night. Yeah, it was yeah

I was in the it was in the early nineties. Yeah He came and he said that there interesting for him to say, but listen. He’s a very capable guy No question about it. I will tell you this. I thought it was a great mayor in New York Yeah, really, did he did a lot for that city Without a doubt so I mean I can’t knock his You know his abilities. He was he was good at what he did He says a big part of it was something about his dad. You know and his dad said? We can’t be bullied in New York and that was his inspiration which I’m like wow what and What a thing to remember for your dad to instill there you get down much and drive to want to go against the five families That’s that that’s got to be a chip on his shoulder to want to do something. Well. No I Mean, it’s a good narrative But if you’re gonna make your name in New York, you’re gonna make it two ways you’re going after Wall Street Are you going after the mob? That’s it and he chose both? Let’s face it. I mean he got Boesky and he got What’s his name the other big guy oh? Gosh forget Milken. He got milk in and he got us. He got us all so I mean you know But I’ll tell you what I owe a lot to him, and he doesn’t even realize this when I was on trial ayuh Rizzo my guest business partner had become an informant they were creating the case against me in the gas business and I ERISA was the star witness well when Giuliani found out that they had this big witness against me and I was on trial he wanted that witness to testify against me the problem was I Rizzo didn’t really know anything about that case But there was a big dispute. I found out afterwards Between East and district and Giuliani over getting iya Rizzo to testify because the Eastern District didn’t want to give him up That was their guy. You know it is the government. Anyhow Giuliani’s got a lot of juice He wins we put our original on the stand okay? And we crucify him up there destroyed him on the stand okay Jury Didn’t believe might get acquitted what happens now Now the government is scared because I just beat their main witness against me in the gas case They’re ready to throw him out of the witness protection for a while That’s what gave me the leverage to negotiate the deal that I got because they were afraid I was going to beat him again because I had won four cases now I know they call John a Teflon down, but I won four cases two and And the Giuliani case was a big loss for them, and if you look back That was the only case that ended up in an acquittal He convicted everybody we were the only ones whether it was an acquittal So that gave me the leverage to go in and make the deal in Eastern District and only I say only get ten years Because that was a bonus back, then I only get ten years. They were given everybody fifty and on you got ten I got ten That’s amazing compared to some of the other stories you hear about I’ll tell you this I believe if I resort in testifying the Giuliani Case and I beat him yeah, they wouldn’t have made the deal with me They would have taken me to trial because it was the gas business they figured they had me Wow you’re gonna Put me away forever, but they got scared how much would you have gone through thirty five fifty? It was easy easy Fifty minute really yeah Patrick they were given guys a hundred 150 years Wow and I’m saying I’m the youngest that already you’re gonna go on a three hundred years unbelievable, it would have crucified me when you have time to think and really analyze the way life go and you look back and I Said man all these negatives turned into a positive for me They gave me breaks that I didn’t realize were happening at that time You know it’s a big part of my faith when I talk to people I said you know that the misery that you’re going through Now might be the blessing for you later on I said it happened in my life in more than one situation. You know my father Okay, betraying me that later broke that tie that got me out of that life because everybody I know either dead or in prison for the rest of their lives everybody So how is that gonna walk? Well I had a major bull’s-eye on my back. They weren’t gonna. Let me go No way is unbelievable story right there like by itself. That’s an unbelievable story so Rudy Guiliani. You know will be fun It’d be fun to Be at a sit-down with you Rudy and just hearing the conversations now, you’re what huh I would love First thing I tell Rudy no idea. I’m the only guy to beat you. Yeah, I Started off like that put him right on it So let some characters You know couple characters that I’m curious about if you ever had a running with did you ever have any business with Roy : I? Did how? How was it his personality because you hear Roy Cohen the influence would trump? And you know he was working with the five families and everybody trusted him because he wasn’t leaking any information to anybody You know the story that he had in the court many years ago that you read about all the time So who how was Roy : he was respected if I’ll tell you my major Roy Cohn incident. I get indicted in the Giuliani case Roy reaches out to me go to his office. I go see him. He said I heard about the case

he says I didn’t get your indictment squashed a Patrick nobody gets an indictment squash not in the federal level not when you’re a target like me. I said, okay I just what do you want? He said I won 250 grand he says and I’ll make it go away I Said I’ll tell you what I said I’m calculating I got to go to trial this and that I lose you know I’m gonna go I said, I’ll put a million dollars in escrow Okay, when the indictment is squash take the whole million Because I knew it wasn’t it happening. He’s well. You know it doesn’t work that way I see look That’s how I work it. I some given you four three times in my four times of money I said I’m put in escrow. Take it squash the indictment you got it That was the end of that It’s trying to beat me yeah, you know because then they come up with another issue. That’s right says and we never trusted our lawyers Never try even the lives even ones we loved we ate it well You know you got he apparently had a great lawyer, but you Scott you know I’m talking every scholar I knew Bruce well was he so he also people didn’t trust them either you trust him to a point right because it’s money It’s my fees per hour and the whole you never you never ever ever admit it to your lawyer No matter how much you trust him that you were guilty was Roy trusted No really, no seriously. He was yeah Let me tell you something about their life, and I don’t mean this to be Anybody that wasn’t a made guy. It could have been the president’s or the Pope if you’re not a made guy. You’re a sucker Everybody was on the same level and Roy Cohen if you could use him you used him. What did we trust him hell no? Bruce Cutler we’re using everything else, but you don’t trust them 100% I mean, that’s just the way we dealt with them that makes sense So was Joey Gallo really the guide that you know that killed? You know Joe Joey Gallo was the guy that did it was it vacinated It wasn’t him personally so of course he had the yeah, but he was behind that yeah that was verified everybody know that it was it was Nicky black as feared of a man as they paint him out to be no okay, you know I Got along well with Nicky. I’ll tell you one story though. I went into his he had a bar and he was brutal guy I got tired and Some guy owed him money, and I went it back with him He said Nick might come over here, and he was breaking the guys hands and everything like that. Just guy out of money You know and I said Nicky come on man You know I was a guy gonna pay if you break his hands game and go to work you know after You know, but but no he wasn’t you gotta you gotta understand something to you know bond John Gotti was feared by everybody John talked a lot but We all were capable of doing what we had to do You know we we were only in fear if we did something wrong, and we knew we had to be afraid but Because you throw your chest out You’re no more capable than I am in other words if I if I got an order to kill you I’m gonna kill you. I don’t care who you are. I have to otherwise my life is at stake so We didn’t fear people in that way, but you know there’s people you don’t want to cause like jr. My boss He was a treacherous guy. I don’t want to cross him because I Know what’s gonna happen? He that bad. I mean you’re like you’re you read about him is like They call him the snake. I mean he was a he was a treacherous guy I mean I liked him don’t get me wrong. I got along with him, but I knew I knew not to mess with him So we all had that kind of a fear you know what I mean Don’t don’t mess because you may walk in the room and not walk out. What made Capone special that well You know in the in the community was it anything Significant that because they put you in Capone in the same league for the most money made right so listen What they always said and I believe it to be that the guest business? Was the most money that we had seen since the days of prohibition? Now we’re not adjusting for inflation sure but so I mean he was an earner he had He caught it lucky like I did. I guess you know I found the gas tax at that time there was prohibition And he he found the right deal, and he was able to capitalize on it so When it comes on to sports? Do you think you know the whole P pros story and all these things you hear about back in the days, okay? You think a lot of it still happens today? as far as as far as Hey, make sure you don’t win by 11 You know make sure you you know don’t pitch the game like this you do this I know what happens a lot in a high school in the college level Do you think it still happens at the highest level in the pros? I don’t believe so because the salaries now that these guys make you know they can afford to lose They’ll pay their bets. They’ll pay their debts. You know back in my day was different story You know I bookmakers working for me, and we had a lot of athletes gambling with us

And I remember bookmakers calling me up. Hey Mike so-and-so is into me for 25 grand should I cut him off? I said why would you cut him off all you’re doing is writing an entry on a piece of paper? I said get leverage let him get into you for 250 grand and then bring him to me The higher the loss the more leverage you got over together You know because they didn’t have that kind of money back then now 250 grand had paid off. What’s the big deal? Nothing, no let me look Michael. Jordan is a legendary degenerate gambler, and I’m not calling him personally I’m just calling his gambling sure sure yeah the guy can lose a million dollars a week in one face Yeah You know show I mean there’s him and there’s some controversy behind him with the whole What happened to his dad you remember that whole thing but was it was it not in and Stern told him to step away? But I mean I don’t know the story behind it But I I definitely believe because I was working with the NBA at that point in time, and they told him to get away That’s who anyone you definitely believe 100% I believe that and he went and played baseball for a year just to get let things die down And then he came back you know yeah, I mean that’s that was the inside talk at that time I read both sides, and I’m like you know it’s kind of convincing. I just don’t know for me to say that but You hear some high credible sources saying that you know that this took place last few things here before we wrap up so You got a new project coming up. I literally got an email a week ago. I said hey did you know Michael got? casted for a movie with Tom Hanks, and you know with Katarina Radivoje average from you know, Croatia, or you know the movies gonna be in Croatia. It’s a fifty million dollar budget This all of a sudden You know I had a movie I had a role in a movie Recently called let there be light with Kevin Sorbo and the long story short how that happened the writer is a good friend of mine he roped me into the and then He said Mike I want you to play the part I had no intention of doing it, but I ended up doing it it was an ex-mob guy who became a pastor big stretch big stretch for me write those, but basically playing myself, but You know I’m involved with a fella by name of Tom Creole and Tom is He goes after black money black money meaning Money that’s used to finance terrorist groups and Money, that’s used to go after Christian You know martyrs, I mean to martyr Christians, and he and I kind of working together And he’s he created a film a game rather called Gosh, I forget. Eva’s something the game right and they’re creating a movie out of the game And I think they spoke to Tom Hanks, and he wants to be in it. Let me tell you about this movies It’s it’s a it’s an early project so who knows if it’ll ever ever come to pass But yes they want me to play the role, and I said look because of the cause I’ll be involved with it I’m not an actor I don’t tend to be an actor, but I guess if the right thing comes up And it works for you doing so I do know that you had some experience with movies in the past that you you know Had somebody that work with you that you know you funded some movies a quarter million dollars that led to another half a million dollars, so There are some stories about what are you working on nowadays? What are some projects you’re working on nowadays a couple of things are real exciting hi, my main project right now is I’m doing a stage show in Las Vegas and It’s the history of the mob in Las Vegas set to music and dance It’s a musical Wow and we’re telling the whole history of the mob from the 1950s Okay, when they got involved and actually created Vegas right through the 80s when they kind of were pushed out And I’m gonna narrate it actually on stage and a little bit of my story’s gonna be interspersed in that the way We’ve designed it, but it’s a really cool project. I’m very excited about it’s gonna appear at the Plaza downtown We have a marketing Arrangement with the mob museum, that’s a that’s a big museum downtown and now Vegas Have a relationship with them there and it’s going to premiere in May of next year so I have that and I’ve got two television projects one is a scripted series called American royalty And that is the history of the mob in New York from the 50s right through the mid 70s And we’re going to tell the story of the five families And I’m really excited about the project cuz I’m with a great company and they put together a great showrunner and writer which got You know tremendous credits, and I think that’s gonna go next year and I’m doing a true-crime unscripted show that’s called a mafia democracy and basically The theme of the show is that we’re going to highlight cases where the government was complicit in framing somebody and We’re gonna be holding the government accountable In cases like that the first case that we’re gonna highlight in the first season is my father’s case Wow We’re gonna tell that whole story. I believe one in six episode does he know about it He does and I said to him dad for 50 years. You’ve been complaining that you’ve been framed I believe he a lot of people believe you, but you never want to talk about it on camera

I said I’m going to do this show I said it But you have to get on camera and all you have to say is I was framed I’m gonna ask you some questions, and you got to cooperate. You know what he says to me these let me ask my lawyer I Said dad you don’t have a lawyer. I gave you a lawyer I said your lawyers gonna say yes, so you got to commit to me that you’re going to do it so he committed He said yes, that’s cool. He’s never been on account My dad has never said a word to the press has never been interviewed So this would be the first time the oldest made guy in America Okay is finally gonna be on camera and say some things and I said you don’t have to admit who you are what you did or What you were involved in I’m gonna get him to do that anyway, but uh yeah He’s agreed and III think it’s important you know again When people understand I’m not anti-government. I’m not anti law-enforcement I have many friends in law enforcement my brothers in Christ in full enforcement And I tell people I have five daughters when they walk down the street. I expect blunt force them to spell heck down Yeah, I’m a friend to law enforcement, but what I don’t like is when they go rogue And they frame people and they put people who are in they destroy lives They have enough weapons and tools to play by the rules and go And go and get people the right way and most good people in law enforcement feel the same way So I’m not you know. I’m not going against them, but to me. It’s an exciting series It’s kind of like you know John Walsh in America’s Most Wanted He had a personal stake in this and I’m gonna host that series it looks like they wanted to do that and Hopefully that’ll be a success and I’ll have the right impact and I be honest we Patrick I don’t think has ever been a time in my lifetime. Where a show like this would be more relevant Then dealing with government It’s not great to I know it’s not no it’s not and you kind of talked about in the end of your book You know if there’s anything I would say when you buy the book I’ll make you an offer you can refuse the last chapter Really gets into your beliefs about the government and politics and all that which I think it’s very fascinating Maybe we can talk about that on another time, but guys again. If you haven’t read the book go buy the book We’ll put a link on the bottom Michael. Thank you so much for opening Thank You electric appreciation. Thank you you