UK Games Expo Seminar: How to get into Roleplaying Games (RPG)

it’s not all board games at the UK game sex porn role-playing games do have a massive massive impact on a very very big presence of this convention which is why they started to organize this panel show people what to do where to go next if you want to get involved in role-playing game song where to start so we’re going to go we’re going to hear from the beginnings of role-playing games from where they come from to war role-playing games could you choose if you want to find your first steps into the Hobby this would be a good one have a good time listening to this tremendous bunnell so I’m going to ask is from left to right lies my left to my right in one minute elevator pitch poor you sir I don’t pitch my soldiers but I’m right now I work for mostly faronics path I’m line developer for mommy to curse way to brick I’m Matthew Dawkins on youtube on the gentleman gamer of the gentleman’s guide gaming I have hosted a role-playing based channel for around three or four years now which reviews discusses dissects role playing games and occasionally interviews well a couple of people here as well as I’m at Greenwood have gone realm sandy Peterson of course cthulhu and I’ve been gaming since the age of 17 so I’ve just passed my 10th anniversary and my name is capped oban I work for a pal grain press at the moment and makers of such flying games as trailer clearly my spy Cajuns and Lisa terrorists and I’ve been involved in gaming in general for far too many years we’re not going to get into my age or anything and and my experience is mostly in organizing running conventions and all kind of el gran reckon eh i’m mark van Hagen and I created the world of darkness fat for the masquerade werewolf the apocalypse a couple of games I hate it said UK but our spawn Chico when I make in the name it was flattened I didn’t realize what it meant in the UK so yeah I’m here to pay for my sins I can’t really fall about my name’s Sean cause I run the youtube channel outsider 68 I saw own company for everything dragonfall publishing supporting a number of lines but dming for 30 years and like yourself packer a huge collector of gaming material mmm no role playing games started in nineteen well theoretically in 1974 by was already going for a little bit because gary gygax have eating his mine for little while i know a little bit about history badly martin you’ve been at it for a very long time long enough to be able to talk about the longer than me yeah well i was lucky not to grow up in Minnesota where David artisan lives and I went to some early gencon so I met Dave Arneson and Gary Gygax so I kind of know the stories I knew a girl who wasn’t the first gaming group and as sort of a funny thing as I said what was it like be the first girl to ever role play and she said carried really didn’t let me play I just SAT there you have to roll the dice once at night and other than that he said that girl shouldn’t role play and I was like what really but she goes yeah it was really not a very good experience but here I am so so I did way back in the day as you know sort of had to imagine what America the Midwest and the 70s was like it was an all-boy club it was based out of wargaming they used the same miniatures are used in fantasy were gaming and it was very much not what you think of role playing today it was sort of basically very tactical move the dungeon you know the squirming this this guide covers you as you move forward with his crossbow and and had a very different feel and then it just started all being almost immediately once it’s sort of escaped the cage of Dave and Gary’s house it just sort of people started you know still all the dungeon but suddenly someone said hey wait a minute there’s a world outside the dungeon and that’s the day that role playing I think became what we considered a role playing it’s when the whole world was created not as a dungeon and they started just having store and here we are today and throughout the

70s what was the evolution of role-playing games from the conception that there was a massive thing by in terms of titles in terms of the approach of people what do you see happening up to the early 80s I mean I came in with the advanced sensor dragons that’s from missed the earlier part of the you know the read books and all this foot but I mean once it hit it was just huge you know and now there weren’t a game stores you had to go to model railroad or model stores and they had like a rack of the DD stuff initially and and I would beg my dad drive you know an hour away just like a pie at one book my allowance money and it was just so huge and then suddenly like a year into it there’s justice to lose and other games like cons and trolls and weird little supplements you know mini graphs of supplements was like so early on it’s hard to imagine just you know and I still have this collection my dad’s attic you know it’s just sort of a wild time of you know of people making products stapling themselves you know yeah so is it was very exciting I you know but not much good stuff to be honest and then the 80s came CA you ping at him and you’ve been tremendously humble about the kind of trouble that you get into you have done some absolutely pretty awesome stuff what sort of things when you were in early 80s to 90s what where what was the RPG scene like well I was five so no idea i did get involved in it very early though like Mark said I started playing first edition advanced dungeons dragons and then I went backward real quick to see what the basic stuff was like and realized why it advanced and so the 80s is mostly that for me was first stationed in playing the other tsr games you know star frontiers and the other stuff played a lot of the James Bond game if you remember that the old Marvel heroes game that’s the 80s for me mostly and then 88 89 David said cook got to redesign for a second edition and that to me is what kind of you know we reckon things in terms of films or music in terms of errors but that was a really nice encapsulation so that it could pave the way for the 90s which was the second edition indeed arrow mm-hmm now guys what was it in this country because we have the the division from from the US but what was in this country show you bring a trip or a felons of time well I’m very similar to yourself I remember very well I was luckily where I grew up was in the middle here what’s very close to finchley which is where leisure games came into power just at the right moment when coming to power might there is no longer for me that was the most powerful sure and I remember very well seeing the very first books hit the shelves and I’d no idea what it was I didn’t know what a role-playing game was but at my school I was lucky we had somebody who did and they brought similar the original books and starts to run it my immediately knew thats that i wanted to do that so straight away in the shop and just started buying books so it from a very early point it was more more often than not you didn’t actually know what we’re buying you bought it because it looked good you know you thought it might be a good module just because of a couple more making knows when that’s my earliest recollection of a very first book type right now our RPGs have changed in time amazingly and the first decade saw a surprisingly the right number of games coming out from dnd talent rolls which was actually pretty huge and less consigned under it for four right in there and then we have somehow a lot of pretty stunning games i’m no longer with us and son dad still are then become traveler and traveler I mean now was huge I come from Spain okay and I can tell you when I was growing up in Spain we didn’t know we’re role-playing games where I I didn’t hear about role-playing games until I this lot ated my knee in the early 90s I had nothing to do for days on end on a friend of mine bro second edition D&D unloading the reins red box and fill then I knew about the dragon dance that was there and the series and I didn’t know there was a game behind er but traveler they don’t unloved it in Spain like there was no tomorrow what was he like in the u.s. guys trauma like that really yeah i mean i mean in america i think americans so have a more baroque taste in Game Show so-and-so traveller came across is almost too simple and so it was a big deal but it wasn’t like you know huge it wasn’t like it you know spaceship landed it was sort of a

different thing people were still playing camo rule yeah well you know and sort of a I think back then there’s more of a traditional sense that but where’s my character class would you be mica died in creation um CA what was troubling for you do you it wasn’t the game that influenced you when when you were starting no really i liked it i played it sorry mr. Miller know what was it like in this country well my experience is through talking to people I’ve overall play with a huge range of people who have been robbed like since the beginning of the hobby and people who are coming into it now and from speaking with them in the UK rather than travel being that seminal point it was called food mm-hmm that was the big role playing game that seemed to ensnare the imaginations of the British role players Oh obviously Dungeons and Dragons have its place it’s the thing that started at all but Cthulhu was the first genre breaking game to hit our shores that really made people start role-playing differently yep and then of course came vampire the masquerade okay in the 90s and he’s white marks and I’d say in large part that’s what got me into gaming in such a heavy weight the idea of story teller system a narrative driven game and I think across the 90s especially in the UK and America there was this lean away from the heavy mechanics did not the Indian you saw that with the gradual decline of Dungeons and Dragons before I had his resurgence with third edition and the the amount of investment role-plays put into these storytelling games not just the world of darkness lines but but games like Call of Cthulhu and the eventual rise of the indecisive that came with the last decade mmm caguas it for you because I mean I thought this may sound like an obvious thing to do let’s say that it is not from the woman’s perspective being the role-playing game it’s a very very different place to be it is a very very different place to be actually and it’s interesting because I think like Matthew said I think that certainly from me vampire was kind of one of the big one of the really big games that inspired me and I think a lot of women actually might experience found vampire easier to get into easier to play and easier to understand and empathize with then a lot of the more mechanical kind of games like the indie that we’re out there already so I think that cold clearly is is good is it was my first love but vampire was what really made me go this could be our beef or they could really hobby the women could actually get into in numbers these kind of games they’re going to get bigger they’re going to get better and they’re going to get more women into the hobby I think that was definitely my experience all that now in the 80s as well the role playing game industry saw a massive peak I mean this is when we began to see companies making millions companies that were employing 150 200 people at a time on a full-time basis is out of the decade I am very grateful for because it brought a new dimension to fantasy artwork that before was there but was not as obvious thanks to people like Larry Elmo mean that plenty plenty more they gave fantasy art they started to give the recognition that people like frazetta have been fighting to get four so so very long and brought it to the masses um what do you guys think was the biggest change in look and feel of game at what point do you think games realized that actually we need to up our layouts we need to up our artistic input into this thing because it really matters a great deal I’ve got two examples and so this is a personal aesthetic choice but for me the games that maybe just think wow these these can be arts as well as just a game supplement as well as just a rule book were the plane scape setting for dungeons a dragon’s second edition with the fantastic art by Tony dhitha let’s see which is a still I feel unsurpassed by any other role playing game and is I think in large part why planescape source books cost so much now they’re all out of print and that they are filled with this superb watercolor Arthur’s just strewn throughout the entire thing and I could I can just look through those books just to admire the art I don’t have to be playing the game for it and the other one completely converse to that and going back to well done is break the oblivion which completely around you bought by the

throat and really made you look at death in the face in this role play Valentinus it was it was horrific it was a real bleak attitude a an incredible simplicity to the art there is all just shades of black and white but at the same time it it was just so different to anything that had come for it was quite difficult to look through some of it and yet beautiful at the same time if I may as well just very quickly two things i really liked one you may not have seen very often sky realms of Giroux when it came had the most amazing Cyril I’d ever seen but really turned me on to our in a way that I hadn’t I pub this anywhere can describe it really gave me a passion for sci-fi I didn’t have and of course warhammer first edition the very first campaign because those pictures those full-page pictures were absolutely colors and I love those right there was a Scott massive diversification within the genders that were covered in the 80s and 90s of role-playing games and we also began to see from fantasy science fiction and things that are a lot more obscure or given considering more obscure began to see things like superheroes there were an awful lot of very different games and a lot more thematic games we can say mommy the curse or I’m natural things are more historical kind of base with a massive fantasy thrown at it and then came the 90s and the ND that the the mid-90s it they were in kind for their role playing game industry were they well there are kinds Wong half again the the mature crowd as they were I think termed by the industry really saw a boom the tsr movie company that wants published dungeons and dungeons and dragons as most of us know ended up collapsing under their own weight I suppose would be best way to put it they they produce too many products of to lower quality and couldn’t keep up with what the demand just wasn’t there by the end they saturated the market with fantasy and so fancy really did take a nosedive I miss Hill third edition came out and gave it that resurgence and that was a good two or three maybe even four or five-year gap when fantasy was just a lil wayne during that time games like vampire and plenty of others that had struggled to reach the level of recognition before just shut up and then of course d20 came along revolutionized systems and role playing games again absolutely yes now we have chosen is one of us mean to this well they want to give you a little bit of an over scientist to what the RPG has been like I personally believe the not just RPGs but gaming in general is experiencing in massive resurgence and and I’m controversial enough one of the people who believe that a Kickstarter on crowdfunding out given the RPG industry a massive shot in the arm that was exceedingly needed for a very long time and we have seeing absolutely fantastic quality projects being released right now while stocks also making it very easy for small companies to be able to put products in front of an awful lot of people which is brilliant so this basically is no better time to get into rpgs than now which is what i want to have this this panel and and before we finish with the questions we want to bring to you guys three choices from each one of us with the reasons why we like them from different genres so again we’ll start from my left to my right see what are your games is this something to introduce people new to the hobby or is it just games i like both people that you would play if you have a number of people first timers at the table what three games would you be happy to bring that there would be snapped count it well there’s two concerns there one is availability like other people have said some of these are out of print and so actually getting those materials is a concern so I would have to look at what what was readily available for them I’m not going to ask someone to pay ebay prices to just start gaming when they don’t know if they like it but my favorite game of all time is Wraith raise the Oblivion was a game changer a lot of ways visually artistically I don’t know how inviting it is to new players not at all you know it really depends on interest i would say more than system or anything you’ve got some games that are designed to be kind of rules light and so those

are easy there’s no barrier to entry but if they’re not into the subject matter they might it doesn’t matter I don’t think so you know I don’t think Call of Cthulhu is particularly elaborate or baroque but you have to be into cosmic or mythos stuff if you are that’s a perfectly fine game to start with for example if you like superhero stuff there’s a whole range of games but not all of them are you know some of them are kind of gaming advanced you know icons was recently released which is sort of superhero role playing light it’s a little bit more younger sort of early team-friendly so i would i would recommend someone who really wanted to do superhero stuff to pick up one of those rules light ones if they wanted to try that and then of course mommy mmhmm yeah yeah not really for beginners but I have to put it out there I thought these are jolly he’s like jelly cracking game so yeah why not you saw you have the superhero genre with you I do have the superhero genre with me um it’s not something like to really cover on my channel and to be fair and so that’s not fair on the superhero genre because given how popular comic books are and how popular superhero movies are in getting new people into role-playing there’s little more that’s more accessible when I suppose fantasy and superhero I think does fill that niche I’ve brought along a few just I supposed to hold up and wave around the first superhero role playing game ever played in fact was the original DC heroes by mayfair and it came in a box set as old games like that used to and it comes with all the old DC art of the 80s with Rick all the steroid contorted frames Superman looking and grossly out of shape but it really captures that feel of that cusp of Silver Age hip heroism when Superman can do more than just leave a building with a single bound you can also if some reason has telekinesis as I can talk to animals and can I can punch the moon and forth and so on answer the original DC heroes that’s not actually that difficult to find all that expensive on ebay but if you don’t want to look there that far there’s the new version of it the DC adventurers hero’s handbook which is at the same song a new edition of mutants and masterminds which is a very popular superhero role playing game they use the d20 system which is very popular these days as well and well how was everything I think a new role player needs as much as d20 sometimes maligned by people have been in the hobby for a fair amount of time it is a very simple system it’s got a simple mechanic is just basic adding and I brought along just just a show really that with DC hit the DC heroes games that came out so many supplements like CSR games did including a watchman source books and even watchman miniatures that you can still find for us I’ll be mugged on the way thank you I answer and it completely runs the gamut of everything DC from that hard bit and a lot more stuff through to get through to Frank Miller and through to everything that’s glitzy and glamorous on the other side that those four color heroes and this is actually my favorite super a role-playing game is godlike by Dennis duck Wyler and Greg Stassi and I believe is now published by cubicle Seth seven I believe it is still in print it is godlike is a a role-playing game set in the Second World War and brings with it superheroes who are well powerful but the war is more powerful than them it spans 1936 nug through to 1946 and while you may be impervious to bullets you you could still be blown up by a mine or you may be able to fly but you can only so while clutching your crucifix and saying Hail Marys or your rosary beads it’s got so many floors attached to it really makes your superheroes feel mortal whilst at the same time they are more powerful than the rest of the soldiers down there just paint bull’s-eyes on it makes the war feel incredibly dark as it should do and makes super heroism in that time feel incredibly dangerous because you are the guys who are constantly Senate’s at the enemy because of how powerful you’re supposed to be it’s a very innovative system as well the one roll engine some people don’t get on with it but I think it’s perfect for the godlike game definitely now judging by the wide range of Ages around here we further some of you who might even be parents I’m item be no have children so if I what games would be good to play with

children and well and I think there are a couple of games that that kind of work fairly well for children one that I thought would be quite easy to change is a it’s an indie game called best friends and it’s by Gregor Hutton and in that game it’s kind of you played best friends but you kind of plain all their little petty hatreds as well I thought that might quite good for kids you know think kids aren’t there like I hate you I hate you because you’re prettier than me I hate you because you’re smarter than me so I thought I would be really quite an accessible kind of way of getting kids into into a game and because it’s something that they would do they do anyway kind of naturally and but as well as that the simple the system is very very simple as well it’s just kind of it’s a matter of assigning points to different hatreds and then that builds your character and then you take that character into into whatever them the plot of the game actually is so I think in that respect it would be quite good quite easy for children and it’s something that they could just kind of have a bit of fun with its not very system may be quite system like but it’s very very versatile as well and that you can you can literally setting you know in fantasy setting inside by selling any kind of setting you want to know it works across a number of varieties so it’s very adaptable in that way so I think that would be quite good for just kind of easing them in gently and letting them kind of go crazy with with what they want to do with that and now when children are not see of course that this can ahead of them which is why mr. my I can give us a couple of really good example of Jesus scan the cover the gym yeah while speaking at children I put my kids to sleep every night your role playing and there are 63 and so we just do little stories and of course they’re being my kids and I had my offices in the house they know all about zombies which number again now in vampires and so they’re not really scared so any less talking to most other night and their friend was in the bed with them having a sleepover a he started crying and yeah and I was like oh oh there’s no such thing as zombies I forgot to mention Giselle tell him she goes there’s no such thing as zombies it’s just a story you can’t get scared so anyway I love I love horror I love to scare myself or the people I love to be disgusted and there’s some great games to do that I you know I mean you could go from ravenloft the D&D I mean that’s sort of beginning of a lot of people is how they got in the horror and I think that part really rode that code tells quite a bit it kind of opened a lot people’s minds i think if Raven lop haven’t been up come along before a vampire they a lot of people didn’t like well what do you mean a or a game but reading level a lot were like just primed by that a cockapoo of course is the classic it’s it’s basically sandy Peterson created the first true horror game and he did something really incredible he said you know unlike in DD we’re pretty much characters never die ok characters never ever done but game house just says he’s going to kill you stupid but he never does you never dive at a coffee boo boo out out out and that was a huge moment in gaming when you can actually lose your character and the character you loved that you you know people still come up to me and we’re like I’ll mention a character like it and it he wouldn’t say so uh you know I mean that’s really what what I know I did of course you know you know ilog also rape that’s my favorite titles I was really upset when it didn’t sell and never was really mad at me away wolf but it was that was what the one I did for myself that’s the one I did not to make money it was to you know show what I could do I’m sorry to interrupt I think it would be remiss of you mark not to mention than you came you’re working yeah on the subject of horror game yes so anyway at first come get a flier work in the game about body world and where you are a zombie you basically get to be the zombie only your intelligence on the irreverent toxic who lives in secret the world and hunted by the government and is waiting for the final outbreak so it’s sort of a twist on the whole zombie myth that I’ve been working on for years it is part of a 20-year plan of releases so from all the darkest I kind of learned that you know I just actually wrote down the five games names I don’t know if you know this I didn’t actually plan on what they were but this time I’ve actually had enough time or valen build them actually write a 20 year series of reveals and games that will come out so hopefully I’ll make it hmm and of course songs pictures came me anyone here who doesn’t like science fiction exactly Sean give us a few

examples before the head down that would have been really well I luton viral in 33 games that I’ve picked out of starting with travel on because it was it for me we didn’t get round to me about why influenced me as a DM but it really did because I someone else’s game and I my character didn’t even make it off to actually play and died before i started that’s actually quite revolution because that got me thinking you can get away with this is a deer before they even start that’s genius yeah and that really is a great system for particularly for new people to get into it is quite high sci-fi heavy depending on who runs it but that’s kind of good as well because the games I’ve actually been involved in I really didn’t understand what was going on and i found that fantastic need to be honest so that’s 1 i’ve picked up a pic Skyrim’s during it again i’m just going to mention it again because if you ever get a chance can see any artwork i’ll find anything on it it’s so worth it just to inspire you to look at sci fi again because it’s a cross between sci-fi and fantasy and it’s done so well the history of it just makes gives you so many ideas it really inspired is to even if you change it yourself it’s fantastic I want to say the system’s much good it’s the actual the actual I’m Delia behind it because our brothers good that artists brilliant and the final game I’m going pick out a more modern one which is eclipse phase I’ve done them really easy to pick up and play it’s a great one to get into it’s got a great human universe that sort of thing that could have happened or could happen and that makes it believable because it’s believable it’s easy to sell to your pliers and that age of horror is in there plus they’ve done a love a lovely thing I can understand which is give you the ability as a personal player to actually go out of your body and be morphed into something else I think that’s absolutely fabulous that’s a really good game so there’s a 39 pick em let’s post singularity right yeah and we’ll be very unfair to go without actually talking about fantasy games as well because let’s face a day they started it so I decided to choose three games based on both complexity support and quality and if you want to get anybody into fantasy games you have to get this okay this is this is not an option you have to get this price up as well as being a cracking company they they sailed with the storm winds that wizards of the coast send their way and have said an absolutely fantastic route absolutely fantastic words but finder is this privy to a successor of DMD 3.5 is better yes it is what fourth edition should have been it’s incredibly well supported because they have the common sense of keeping the ogl I’m sticking by it and you can get literally and this is no exaggeration thousands of products developed by hundreds of people of a range of qualities from the atrocious not worth working your ass with so then they should be framed for austerity because it’s incredible it’s very approachable the box comes with everything you need to start you can read one of the books in one afternoon you can get children involved in this game and when you’re ready get the code book which is thicker various to read and absolutely lovely lovely experience the second one by one for it’s a wandering the reason I went for this is because a you cannot go wrong with Tolkien if you want to do you want to initiate somebody into fantasy I mean talking is so iconic is so wonderful that you have to go right but where the difference between the one ring and any other arm Lord of the Rings based game in the past is at exactly very good and the system is true it’s true early how is the system is very simple to use the patellas done absolutely brilliant thing by running very very few dies and anyone has a chance to do very well it is based time in the timeline of the Lord of the Rings which is very approachable but they’ve given that little edge of darkness is not massive epic huge ginormous fantasy with fireballs and in visibility’s of every turn by is lovely it’s beautiful to read it reads like an absolute angel the layout is gorgeous the artwork Franciscan Attila the potato has done absolutely wonderful wonderful work I’m coming into little books which I’m a very very big fan of means that you can share with other people without having to spend on the 40 quid in the book which is excellent now my last game this is I wouldn’t recommend this for a full beginner but I’m not joking when I say that this is

possibly the best set of mechanic for a setting i have ever seen ever ever i say he’s very loud on it the mum of warhammer fantasy third edition I don’t want to live without this anymore okay I absolutely seriously I love the game for every single reason the mechanics are bloody hard work for the GM okay it don’t agree like this if you’re the GM this game you can have a good stamina with your imagination because you’re going to have to be making up stuff and interpreting rolls all the time your players are going to have the best experience ever ever the universal solids it comes it is very well supported by fantasy flight the artwork is breathtaking seriously is breathtaking and although i don’t like games workshop us as a company but their IP is brilliant absolutely brilliant and as much as people still like second vision warhammer and I don’t blame them it’s absolutely brilliant game this is amazing so if you haven’t money to get this game you’re not going to go wrong so those are my three fantasy choices and now we still have a few minutes not very many so if you have any questions now’s the time so please initiate your question and the person that you would like to answer please question risen there’s been I think especially the sky realms a little bit of tension between well building and mechanics do you guys feel that the world or how game is played it’s the combination if you don’t express the world through the mechanics correctly then you have bad mechanics the mechanics have to capture the themes and the scope of the world in a very precise way and if they don’t then it’s failed which is why I’m not a big fan of generic systems you know I think gurps did a lot of good is it was a good system but but in the end generic system is not you know the best setting has really captured the physics of the setting is what the game rules so the physics have to match the room if I could answer that as well I totally agree with you because if you take something like the one ring the mechanics in that alone captured Tolkien essence and that is compliments to the entire game everything else and out how great the end you might think you are if the mechanics help you it can make such a way of difference takes a lot of pressure off as well and it just makes the whole thing come alive for me person really nice sorry see you I think it’s something to be said for innovation in a system as well when a system like d20 or girls relied upon to heavily it creates a staleness in games well and you could see by how unwell Monte cook who’s very successful when a role-playing game designer of writer releases version of the world of darkness it was a d20 powered system and it wasn’t actually a bad game by any stretch it wasn’t a bad game at all but the system just didn’t match it and so well again geez I am zombie as an example there’s a card-based system for it it’s not using these standard dice that you would use you you do use dice but they’re augmented by playing cards that will build your character and poker chips that act as bumpers to your characters abilities and the more innovation I think you can put in the system so you can get bogged down in it but if you give it a unique flavor it can make the setting of the game just feel that much better as well I’m going to echo mark said because as a designer I key on this all the time and it’s really about the marriage of the two it’s not necessarily that one is bad at the others bed but we’re 40 years into the hobby and the design has evolved and if you don’t wed your mechanics to your narrative your specs you’re missing an opportunity one of the reasons why the one ring is so good and is really the first middle-earth role-playing game that works isn’t just that it captures to be well it isn’t just that it plays ok as he said it’s really about the wedding it’s about time and it’s the first time that it’s actually work previous toking attempts were lackluster in that pairing yeah definitely I must agree that what’s your excuse me and yet know exactly what Mark and CA have just said I mean you have to have the combination of the setting and mechanics working together and I think you need to your you’re setting really does need to influence your mechanics and and the kind of skills and abilities and things that you have in us and I just hire the game fits together and like in something like the gumshoe system it’s kind of

it’s designed for any vestiges of games and that’s that’s really what it’s for and when you match that together with a setting like the Cthulhu Mythos it just the union of the two together just makes a really really good a really good quality game I think but so it’s definitely the two together it has to be you can’t have a TV in isolation on each other thank you it’s my experience I think so much as well finding out what is important what do you think is important that people get out of your world is it the investigation is it a storytelling it is the fighting is it the psychological conundrum out of it I easily improvisation and then define what kind of rules or mechanics or mechanisms will actually bring that out and help convey that in the easiest possible way because it’s very easy to create very complex mechanics that go absolutely nowhere in the easiest possible way from the GM to the players if you can get that then you’re halfway there to actually making people believe and realize that you were this worth playing I have a follow-up point to that I didn’t get to talk about my favorite sci-fi stuff so two of my favorite sci-fi games are blue planet and transhuman space unfortunately as Mark said the designers felt like they were going to go the gurps route so they sort of followed this Janerio and the games unequivocally suffered for it they good ideas that lack wheels there’s no foundation to them so it’s an essence just sort of reading a source book about how to do a sci-fi concept like this and there isn’t a whole lot of game design in them themselves and that’s a huge wasted opportunities both of them have really strong sci-fi concepts I’ll just say one thing about game systems is that I think that at board games is in a renaissance of board games it’s been a whole euro games were brought in this whole new style of very simple rules and elegant game systems and it’s really made the board game industry just blow up but it’s sort of just and then role-playing we kind of our more traditional and there hasn’t really still have these systems that are 40 years old with some tweaks and changes but they’re still essentially some 140 years ago yeah that’s D&D I can see it it’s the same and I think we we may be as role players in order to keep under Street alive and fresh should be very open to new ideas and I would like to see more experimentation I’ll people at conventions here’s my home brew system and it uses you know I don’t know I’m straws to do something or or dominoes I was play the system using dominoes not heard of people are as well I think that’s we’ve sort of really need to open ourselves up and try new things onto that at the origins of words or though the industry’s game boards program at least in the US and the foreman of the jury that and so we go over the games every year and it’s one of the problems for example i’m not trying to knock them but as an example this game came out lamentations on the plane princess which is an idea about wedding sort of the lethality of first edition D&D with weird sort of lovecraftian and a lot of the supplements the adventures are gorgeous they look good i keep them i would buy them if I didn’t get something for free but I won’t really run them and part of the reason is because when I opened it up and looked through the box the first time almost as a joke I wanted to send back and say hi I’m forming the jury for the origins of words and we got your submission unfortunately when I opened it up there was the Indian side so the concept is fine but really it’s just it’s exactly first edition do you need and that’s that’s hard to reward and when you’re trying to encourage innovation right we interrupt up so thank you very much everybody for being around we you would probably see most of us around in the convention so if you won’t say hello by all means just make sure that we are no buying something wait until we finish buying whatever hole by her ass and to be awesome and then say hello for something thank you you