Jocko Podcast 212: 4 Years Sitting in a Little Room With Jocko Willink. W/ Echo Charles

this is Jocko podcast number 212 with me Jocko willing the path of jiu-jitsu is hard it is a hard path you have ups and downs and there are times when you’ve got to work and there are times when you get injured and there are times when you get mentally defeated and you feel like you don’t want to do it anymore and those days go on and on and on but if you do the right thing and you stay on the path over time you will move forward on that path you will move forward on that path if you keep your nose to the grindstone you move forward on that path if you have the humility to say you know what I still have more to learn and that’s the same way it works with life you’re going to have ups and downs in life things are gonna go wrong you’re gonna lose businesses you’re gonna lose jobs you’re gonna break up things are going to go wrong and what you need to do is to keep moving forward no matter what happens keep moving forward and jiu-jitsu is representative of life if you stay humble and you stay on that path you will end up achieving your goal that will happen and it did happen it happened to my friend here echo Charles and those are the words that I said in August when he received the black belt the black belt he always refer to the black belt is if there’s only one in the world the black belt he received the black belt in jujitsu and it was not an easy path and there was much learned along the way not just about jiu-jitsu but about life and so I told echo at that time at some point we would discuss that journey on the podcast so here we are good evening echo good evening so we did I did immediately say well PI not immediately but a few hours after you got your black belt and there was a lot we were a lot of people talking you know we’re at origin camp we were all talking about everyone getting their black belts you get your black belt what it’s like to get your black belt all the things that you had been through and I said you know what we just got a just will do we need to do a podcast about this because it’s a journey I know it’s interesting too I was thinking about this our last guest Joel Struthers when he came in and before we started recording he was he was very humbled to be here you know he’s act man he said kay I kind of feel I you know you here we are we’re having these guys that were from SOG that were in Vietnam Medal of Honor recipients I mean just really just esteemed guests on the podcast and Joel is kind of like you know he’s a humble guy and what I what I realize is I said well you know I’m thinking to myself I’m still gonna learn from you you know looking at Joel I mean he did some really cool stuff had a good six years in the French Foreign Legion learn some cool lessons I want to learn those lessons too so when I talked to you like I want to learn what you learned I want to learn from you and that’s part of what makes makes me to try and get better that’s what makes me get better is I’m I’m gonna learn from everyone you know you know you hear someone say you even learned something from a white belt yeah you know that’s like a saying it’s actually true you hear your seal said oh you can still start learn something from a new guy it’s not just to say it’s true yeah so with that also some people have asked you know over the years like how did you and I meet so I think that’s probably a a good place to start because we did meet from jujitsu so how do we meet go well in jujitsu actually I remember it probably earlier than you do but you know but when you say like how you can learn something from from anyone right like how this I think I mean you learning something from me or whatever

and I’ll see it in your face every once in a while wanna when I’ll say something it’s almost like you’re kind of computing and calculating like my interpretation of a certain like event or incident versus your interpretation of it so it’s kind of like oh it’s almost like something’s clicking in your eye like think okay so that’s what you saw during this you know like so you can almost kind of kind of formulate how you come off a little bit more accurately you know yeah how you impress on to like the world is absolutely getting feedback from someone on how they interpret what you’re saying is absolutely yeah because you could be like oh yeah like I’m I said that’s so well you know like I was so clear I was so like it even sounded dope the way I said it you know and then they’re like you’re you you know you sounded kind of arrogant when you said that’s more a little miss yeah yeah shot the target under shot the target if you don’t communicate with the target you don’t know yes yeah so alright so yeah so we met um when I first met you was I was a white belt at the boxing club he was like I remember this zero yeah I remember meeting you know I’m literally thinking of like the look in your I thinking like you will not remember this at all but I knew of you I seen you before over at over at a remember kids so Dean Lister opened a little spot it was half of a marshal of a karate gym so he kinda I don’t know that was a nice Lake yes yeah and he had half of it he put this big curtain it separates the karate class in our class so I was I went down there that’s where I joined and I saw you there and I had heard about you from like Dean and some interviews that he did or whatever and then um then that’s when I seen you but I didn’t talk to you or nothing like that and it was literally like a weekend or something and then you know how we would go there to the boxing club which is a different chance more of a gym a boxing gym with jiu-jitsu and him and me so we’d go from there to the boxing club there and you know we’d kind of be training at both yeah you are I only trained at the place in East Lake like probably ten times because it was a far away yeah you know by far away I mean like 35 minutes or something like that which is pretty far well yeah when they’re – yeah the Boxing Club was pretty close yeah victory is the closest yes sir but nonetheless when I first wrote with he was at the boxing club when we were done with the to the south of the LaVista place Reese Lake place and then yes so I rolled with you and you you know I don’t white belt at this time and yeah you can you know beat me up whatever and then I remember you did this move that you still you’ll still try to do this move to me interesting it I don’t remember it working anytime recently but it’s a uni down in sight mouth side control and then you basically do a forearm across the net okay and a scenario and if your head is facing a certain way it’s really hard to get out of this you’re right so you did that to me I think one maybe two times this is a real surprise move because no one thinks that they can get choked there but you actually can’t get choked there you can tap out I tap out people with that move yes yeah and me as a white belt I didn’t know or I didn’t have that preconceived notion that you can’t get tapped I didn’t even have that I was brand new and so you did it and I was like oh cool uh and now in that at that point I was like I was one of the these guys who and asks a lot of questions like a lot of questions like anything I saw for the first time like hey how’d you do how’d you do so I asked you but you still kind of like this where like when you meet someone like you don’t you don’t how should I say exchange pleasantries that much yeah that’s true I you know I actually am more conscious of but now when I meet people like let’s say if I meet someone that’s sort of like listen to the podcast obviously like I’m cool to him because there’s some kind of connection yeah but for sure never in my life have I been a person where I meet someone and I’m you know having some big open conversation with unless they’re not really it’s weird because because you know kind of what I do for a living now is basically talk mm-hmm and and I not a big talker mm-hmm in if I don’t know people yeah I don’t know people when I go to a party like I would go to like let’s say some kind of a whatever party with my wife and just not talk to it right no no look I’m not like standing a corner brooding at people in a jerk but I’m not gonna make a big connection with a lot of people right now fun someone’s got cauliflower here you might open up a little yeah yeah yeah yeah fully like you’re not the guy who’s you know in the corner telling all the story not looking like friends whatever yeah and and back then you were

like that as well so even like even like when you make small talk nowadays if you if you kind of see someone and you’re like hey you’re whatever even your small talk is like and I’m comparing this to knowing you know for however long you can – there’s a huge disconnect like a huge and I don’t mean it in a bad way it’s just more like you’re you’re doing it kind of in this almost like in an official way you know where it’s like you’re not opening kind of thing and maybe even talking about it makes it seem like a bigger deal than it is but it’s their big time so back then oh it was their huge time so you’re like over there you’re like yeah like this is blank look like good you know whatever strong what you know giving doing the same there correct stuff that’s cool but like a like a shark would slack ah yes that’s exactly how I feel yeah yeah and that’s what I heard too so that was like in and I kinda just admit Sarge you know at that point and he was sort of the same way but it was you’re you’re kind of different level in that regard and so I was like hey how do you what would you do there whatever and you were like well it’s like it’s just what you saw you know side mount boom put your arm right there and just choke you there’s no big revelation it was like I’m like cool Bradley just all right I and I didn’t cut it I didn’t get the impression that you like disliked me or nothing which I probably would have if you were anybody else but I knew that you’re sort of like that so whatever jump he’s like apparently you know what I thought he was and and that was sort of it and and I didn’t like train with you or nothing like that not that I remember anyway and um so this is outspread like 2005-2006 Chuck you know yeah I don’t know if you were gone you know overseas or whatever I guess you were right yo I went overseas probably after I met you because I did in the summer of 2006 are left in like April 4 Ramadi yeah and then when did you come back and then I came back and start training in Stockton again October or November of 2006 six yeah so that when I remember first like early memory of actually like seeing you again after that was like well after purple belt so that I got from belt in 2007 and I was like competing in stuff and then you were there and also there kind of training with you or whatever not not that much but yeah compete I remember you being at the competition yeah I remember coaching you some yes yeah yeah and then we’ll one your coat when you were actually coaching me like on the like right before I got injured and stuff like we were training a lot I was trained and then um it was funny because you’re like the same way and with it this actually helped me out first I was like fuck chocolate doesn’t care about me that much you know but this is what I realized like pretty quick is like it’s not that you don’t care about me it’s like you certain things are not a big deal which we all think are a big deal like to you they’re just not a big deal so like that that time one a is the same tournament as I hurt my arm the first time and I got go go potted remember and here’s the thing when I was it like when I was competing before that like I’d never learn what ever since I went because in okay so noogie it’s not my belt back then it was not by doctor it was like if there’s a big tournament it was a novice beginner intermediate advanced that’s how I went and then if it’s a smaller tournament there’s just beginner intermediate advanced so the when I started competing in advanced like that’s when I was sort of training with you and at that point like I was doing really good I was training like a lot a lot I never and I never lost never lost up until that that day right in that I hurt myself so like a few matches before I hurt myself when he gets in his Sean Roberts by the way so you know what Sean Roberts is right he’s like he ended up being a famous jiu-jitsu guy you know yeah yeah yeah Sean Roberts not sure yeah it’s got it so he I go against him and he go go he finishes me with a go-go Club my what-ifs there you know my family’s there everything you know they kind of expected me to win because it’s just got and they can’t tell what that was yes go Levada to is like a I’m not going to say it’s a it’s a move of humiliation to have done to you but there is a level of it’s a highlight on the humiliation scale it’s not in the middle you know leading three million because there’s a lot of things that have to happen and it yeah we use it a go go plotter right go go yeah I would say this to evaluate a Google party if it’s done to you you are the the the budding of a highlight yes you are like pretty much under all circumstances you

know what’s so and meanwhile Sean Roberts is a thinner like more thin guy so when we when we face off it’s like who’s gonna get smashed and Sean are huh men yeah and he totally got me with it like probably textbook like there was at no point in that match that I was like getting home or nothing he ran through me in in tapped me out right and then so I’m like devastating ever lost an advanced competition I’m like devastate my you know my family’s there or whatever my wife’s like well we weren’t married at the time but she’s like all like oh man are you like okay like worried about how I’d handle it but something like whatever like I wasn’t that like broken up about it but it was something it was like Alyssa and then you’re like across the arena whatever later and you text me goes you you got caught with the Go Go that’s gotta sting shake it off you know like nothing like that strangely it that made me feel so much better when you did it like when you said that you know because I was like it’s not a big deal man this is not a bit you know like we’re in this arena you know it’s like we’re not you dude everyone’s competing and it’s like you know it’s so not a big deal at the end of the day but it feels like a huge deal you know so like I mean while I see you across the thing like on your phone or their tails like ah it’s good but I’m like whatever so yeah that was kind of like how the whole deal was I ended up getting hurt my first bicep yeah or whatever and so I was out for a little bit but yeah when I came back we train some more too but uh before you tore your bicep because there was a time for where we were training hard at time that was this time period right yes yeah like I always need a alternate training partner for Dean cuz Dean’s traveling or Dean’s hurt or whatever as always have someone else it’s some up and comer that’s hungry that doesn’t mind training hard and wants to train a lot yeah so you know you and then Andy after Andy’s who it is right now and it was way after oh yeah Andy’s way under saying like at that time you were training with me like I remember we should we’d go to other maths we were trained I know other mats in my gym be like oh there there over there let’s get there’s more room we’ll go over here yeah I remember actually when victory first it was called Throwdown in 8th and we went um we it wasn’t even done yet you know everyone knows training a were like hey let’s go downstairs like no one had ever touched these bats before and now then we’re old or whatever and the mats are still like weird slippery because they still had that little you know layer of yeah and you know whatever in it but I remember that’s when you were like you know what a good feet I forget your exact words but it something like this you want it what feeling free is really really good to have your own gym to Train that I remember that specifically but yes yeah that was um yeah that was when I was competing and yeah training as much as possible so then you hurt your arm whatever no well at what point did you start because at this point you were bouncer whatever what point did you start making videos because it was pretty early on that you decided that you were gonna become a video log refer to do make maker yeah yeah so we I stopped being a bouncer and I started getting to web with my brother from scratch I don’t know anything so it’s you know it’s kind of like multimedia you know web development graphic design that kind of stuff I always was sorted into that in one way or another is growing up since a little kid where me and Jayde my brother were kind of standouts in that regard like drawing and in fact I remember one time JT was in we’re in sixth grade we did you know how you said poster contests yeah I’m sure they still have it it’s something I’m sure but you basically they give you a theme and then you Colly draw and color a big poster mmm that that’s you know that follows that theme in Jade ended up winning it uh national like ecozy by love so you win and then it’s like yeah I really was about drunk driving Mothers Against Drunk Driving though so you know you win well this is closer actually kind of dope it was a car for the time this is like you know sick literally sixth-grade a car crashing into a big can of beer that was it cool but the way he did it was good in you know we’re real good at drawing too at that time so he wins the school he went to the island of Kauai that and then it wins like the state you know then all the winners of the state got into the National which won any freaking wins it thousand dollars yeah there’s a lot of money oh yeah a trip to like New York and like all this stuff so it was kind of a big deal just four giant so anyway

the point is like we do we we were always into artistic and drawing stuff so web design and graphic design it was kind of like okay that was good and then kind of through that I don’t know so you know the idea you watch a movie right or a movies gonna come out then you watch the trailer then you’re like dang can’t wait to watch that movie then you watch the balloon you’re like okay cool good movie but man the trailer was like way better you know got me way more fired up and like the movie the movie kinda was a letdown for me so that whole idea that whole phenomenon like I really was interested in where like who made that trailer where he got the movie and chopped it up and got the cool parts and told almost like a little alternate story you know like and not necessarily alternate remember what was there a specific trailer there was a bunch of them so one of the ones that I always watched was Terminator Salvation and it has I think whenever you say a movie and then you give me this look of you’re waiting for me to give you a nod of like oh yeah giving you a straight punch jerk because I’ve seen terminator 1 and 2 yeah and I don’t know what comes after that but apparently salvation is no no yeah yeah one of them turn me one which okay so term anyone to Rio to or the best by far like pretty much factually the best pretty much it’s not a it’s not very much up for debate but that’s back in the day before trailers really kind of hit their stride as far as movie trailers go so and there’s Terminator 3 which is complete flop by the way site No so anyway Turman airforce terminus salvation Christian Bale isn’t knowing anyway the trailer was like really well done in my opinion mmm and ahead I forget the group I’m just drawing a blank but I think it might have been like nine inch nails or something like that where they did they have the song called the day the whole world went away you don’t need to sing it for us bro we’ll take word for it anyway the view that song in the trailer and then the the way they did I was like man this I this is like I want to live my life like this trailer feels or whatever as far as like you know the videos I wanted me so there was that there was like Clash of the Titans that was a good one I thought yeah there’s a bunch okay so then you decided you’re gonna start making trailers what was the first you know with you that you got paid to make then I got paid to make yes was with you Beth and what was it is the film was it thrown out or we victory nope not even that was before that well was it so the first video I made ever was like on a cruise like you know now you can see him anywhere like you you know you basically take your Academy do this chop it up put it with music but the first video that I made for money was with you for like some bones yeah yeah I made like a thing about the laws of combat you filmed me i sat there and talked about it you know and then they Institute it inside their organization yeah 18 months or so yeah yeah yeah that’s the one that the sound was off that’s funny obviously geez so and so just let me fill in the listeners please this is like a probably a one hour video maybe maybe I don’t know 45 minute video yeah yeah yeah it’s a 45-minute video I’m talking I’m explaining the laws of combat I’m talking about extreme ownership I’m going through these things to this screen and the the audio is off by a half a second so it looks like a weird old Chinese martial arts film with the voice dub over and so I say to echo you know I’m like hey it seems like you know it seems like my voice doesn’t match my mouth I’m saying it sort of has a question but like term the first two terminators being the factually this is a factual situation it was no debating I was watching my lips move with no words coming out and I’m like this is not good and you you pushed back on me yeah that’s what’s really funny yeah as that actually made me suspect of your whole existence so your whole cuz you were like you were trying to explain to me that that was somehow like your first of all you tell me like no no not really I might watch though the lips move see how there’s no words coming out wait was that the time late where you came over and we were watching it or were you texting me I think have you came I started off texting you like hey can you sink these things and your responses were like well it’s not it’s not really that often I’m like what are you talking about and so they I probably came to your house with a pistol and was like okay we’re gonna fix this but but you had a serious there was a problem so this is this this is what how and how did you think that was okay this is this is ok so there’s three little elements to this whole equation that’ll make it make sense okay so okay so first off I said I wasn’t necessarily acting like this and I’m not saying I was trying to give the impression that I knew exactly what I was doing cuz come on let’s face it this is literally my first video that I’ve ever made that anyone’s actually

depending on me right so I’m like alright so yeah I sync up the audio whatever and I don’t know how to sync up audio no idea so I think up the audio what I thought was like synced up yeah and so here take a half a second just like I said I’m used the video the one or two videos that I’ve ever made was like two minutes long so editing a two minute videos I forget click-click-click you edit you in it but man 45 minutes of editing your brain and just a cop you know like so keep me off sync by a lot in your brain will kind of connect the dots it’s weird like you ever watch it yeah so my brain essentially connected it and was interpreting it as Csonka good so you’re over here saying hey it’s off sync look at this and I’m like looking at I’m looking at and then I’m doing all these weird mental experiments like to be like okay let me pause it right when he said and it’s all checking out in my brain I get it it was and that’s when I was like no you’re wrong you’re wrong you’re wrong so finally you were like bro I’m like I’m coming over and we’re gonna get to the bottom of this so I’m like yeah come whatever so you come and we’re doing it and you’re like me and you’re just seeing two different things at this point cuz my brain is all whacked at all jammed up because I remember like weird I was trying to mediate we were trying to meet a deadline – that’s all staying up like super late not getting much sleep so so you come over we’re looking at it we’re seeing two different things until this one little part where you’re like you caught our class did this yes and then it was like oh my gosh so it’s real clear when you clap and then the sound comes later and you were like yeah look at that and I’m like it all that came crashing down like that I’m completely wrong but that was good because I could be like okay now I’m gonna sink the whole 45 minutes off of this one thing you see I’m saying so that’s that’s what happened there thing about that first video – that was like the beginning of a seal on front essentially and that was cause when you think okay so I revisited that video like last year just going through what year was that do you happen to remember that 2010 yeah yeah so a chillon front wasn’t officially formed yet I think that’s like right after you retire yeah yeah yeah man I looked at it’s a year ago I look I bring up the video looking over hard drives or whatever I bring it up on let me check this out you’re all young so funny it’s like you’re all young looking man your son is saying all ashlyn front stuff but super like early beginnings of it I’m saying I was like comments really interesting to watch now that like I know like all the content or whatever it’s funny but yeah that’s what it was ilan front 1.0 yes that is and the second video was with you as well that was the victory the throwdown was it victory yeah it was victory at that time that was victory yeah you know and which video was it the outtakes from some of those videos are awesome yeah those bills later on it was just like one where do you mister is like monkeys giraffes girl yes that cracks me yeah but that I think that those the victory that’s how like people started to know around like here and around San Diego that I did video because I did a series of them and that just kind of were like I just tried to make them like kind of like movie trailer and of dramatic and no one at that time was doing anything like that as far as like making videos for companies or whatever and so it you look at them now and they’re like they’re pretty cheesy now but back then it’s kind of like all day you know ya know those were like those were really good videos for that time period yeah and I sort of put my name on them not sorta I straight I put my name on them you know when we upload them whatever that and that’s how people are like oh you’re a collage you’re the one that does those videos like that you know I guess I mean it’s kind of distinct or whatever so that’s how I kind of kind of gained like some people started knowing some fame no no nothing but people started knowing I mean really recognized oh yeah okay so now there’s a chunk of time now we’re talking because we didn’t start this podcast until 2015 and these are easy dates for me to remember because extreme ownership came out in October of 2015 but I was on Tim Ferriss podcast that came out like September 25th 2015 and then I was on Rogen like December 8th or something mmm 2015 and then we started this two weeks later this this podcast I remember I was like let’s get it out before Christmas yeah and we did we got out like 22nd of December or something like that so there’s five years between okay you made the first echelon front 1.0 video between that time period and 2015 what what are you doing okay so you’re making other videos you had some but you actually had some pretty big pretty big

videos right you did well let’s just start with the Hanaa show right yeah so the Hanafi show yeah so you well before like after the victory that was started this cascade of like other people wanting me to do that good videos so which was perfect because I kind of got thrown into the mix like and had to like I had to learn yeah like hard like that no better way to learn than getting thrown well though there aren’t better ways but it was a way as a way you’re gonna have to learn ya hit a sink or swim and you started swimming crawl stroke Oh Astro rest stroke side stroke yeah and like mistakes you make like you really learn the lesson because it’s not like oh I made the mistake in my freaking what was your next day after there was the next like big break after victory Oh a big one I worked for a guy Blake Malan and that was like as far as content goes he was like okay it was kind of cool you know corporate and stuff like that um compared to the stuff I do now well you would make early which is what is what I noticed when you make wouldn’t those early videos that I was in when I watch them I’m like this the same thing we’re doing right now almost oh yeah like the same especially you see the well like you said like the thing that all the things I’m saying then it was like oh yeah we if we would have known then we just said okay let’s just start making more you know and really when you think about the whole thing as a big picture it’s that’s literally what happened so like when you like when we’re making the victory videos right there’s so many outtakes like and most of them are me and you cuz you’re messing with me the way always message me like you’re like there’s this one where you’re like cuz okay and you you you’re kind of smart you like you and I don’t mean smart like you’re uh observant you’re more observant than the normal person so I’m new to video and I figured out really early when I do shoots with people I just press record cuz a lot of the good stuff you can get with people is one they don’t know you’re recording right when I’m talking to them they’re doing something else they say something they’re trying to at least loosen up and they’re doing whatever and there’s a lot of good stuff come from there right and you picked up on that pretty quick and you’re like you’re recording aren’t you guys you press them what the way you said it was like god that’s literally the same stuff you know you know what else is funny you got that one video of our old CrossFit instructor yeah and he’s saying he’s saying I’m gonna try and summon my inner Chaka which is weirdoes how did he we had even seen me before well where’d that come from amen everybody knew men yeah that was random but yes uh yeah yeah yeah so I yeah I did some some of that then yeah I’m working with Blake because I was it’s like an ongoing thing which that’s what I really liked about like doing video or the type of videos I like to do is like ongoing one stuff where I could like think of like cool little themes for the next one you know kind of thing so I did that for a while and then um and then I tried to and then I want to make like movies and stuff like I think like anyone who does video you did you did some martial arts some grappling stuff too those were some pretty good videos and you’re actually traveling to do those videos which one like metamoris oh yeah yeah yeah some good you did some really cool metamoris videos they were kind of pre fight right yeah like a kind of like a high-dose countdown type videos 34 30 or whatever yeah kind of like a little mini documentaries like about the person in the fight coming up yeah yeah and that actually doing those a lot that’s how I met a lot of the big jujitsu players and how even more how that spread like through the jiu-jitsu community outside of San Diego like okay that guy makes like videos or whatever so I did that and at the same time I met rasaan who is Hinata laranja I met him and I was like brother this guy needs like a show so we made a show with him and we’re gonna so do I think six six altogether those are hilarious oh yeah those are epic yeah and those are on flex point TV well they’re on YouTube yeah but I we’re on YouTube oh just just go ahead not to learn on just show or yeah flicks wink TV they’re on there yeah no you’re right um but we had that’s a hard one too that was hard to make given where I was in my career will say because it’s like okay I can if I was just doing that full-time which I kinda was at a little pocket I was just doing that full-time you could do it but cuz consider what you got to do is just you know I don’t have this huge production studio with people like arranging everything so we got to basically arrange my schedule because I still gotta work stuff like I was weird me and Jayde we’re putting money into it we were spending money to produce this show so there’s that and then there’s I got to work right I have other stuff to do so I got a schedule with myself man we filmed in LA it was two hours away um where’d you bought space to juice it’s called

the Dream Factory la someplace that you were paying to use yeah you rent out the studio yeah it’s a it’s little set there this is pretty dope though it was it was really cool um and then so my schedule the dream factory schedule which it wasn’t too bad cuz you know you can schedule it in advance or whatever but not social schedule and then the select it because the guests are celebrity types bass route in Frank Shamrock like Hanner like all these so you got a schedule with them as well like Kenny Florian was the first one that was really fun show it was really hard to get together and put on yeah so when when I had a career and then towards the end of us filming that my career started to go up and up even more so it’s like man that I I can’t do it I just couldn’t do it we couldn’t do it so yeah so it stopped but that’s a funny one yeah all everyone’s will all like watch him again and it’s freaking it’s funny yeah no he’s a hilarious guy it was a it’s a good show great show and then meanwhile you and I are still training hard I mean we’re trying hard this whole time you were one of my primary training partners this entire time yeah and then at like I just kind of told part of the story but I go on Tim Ferriss his podcast and he tells me to start a podcast and you reminded me of this we actually had talked about it a little bit mm-hmm wait were you trying to convince me to do one you know so you told me that we should do a podcast that you can figure it out or whatever yeah and and then I was on Rogan and that’s why at the end of the first time I was on Rogan show I said echo get it you know get ready because in the middle of Rogan show he says hey you should have a podcast which come to find out Joe Rogan tells everybody that everyone who should have one oh yeah and but I listened thankfully and it was you know bit both hearing it from Tim and Joe was was was a convincing and I mean I would have done it just off Tim but the book it was like I was on Tim then the book came out then I was doing that thing and just barely got done doing kind of the the book promotions in New York City when I came home and that’s when Rogen is so it all happened pretty quick but yeah having both those guys say it so then but I do remember this conversation for sure I came back from Rogan and I said hey we’re gonna do a podcast are you good you know can can you make it can you make it and you said I’ll tell you tomorrow because I remember you specifically said I’ll tell you tomorrow you could you didn’t have an answer for me right then the next day you come in a train I come in to train and you said hey I know I can do the podcast I figured it all out I know what I got to do and then you said let me be on it too and I said what are you gonna do and you said I’ll be normal and you be you and I thought that was a pretty good idea and and plus more important I didn’t want to sit and talk to myself I’d rather talk to you and because you and I would talk on the mat anyways and oftentimes we’re talking about subjects that we would that were interested in so why not be able to sit there and talk to someone and you’re super humble guy I was like yeah I could you know we hang out all the time so if there’s one person that I can see that can sit there and listen and not feel like hey I gotta throw my two cents in on everything it’s like okay cool like let’s do this so that’s how we ended up doing this yeah yeah and the in the yeah the timeline little bit okay so yeah and just from my perspective I remember very clearly too by the way um when you were on Tim for like okay so most you listen to me on Tim Ferriss yeah oh yeah oh yeah right when he came out that was good even and I knew you for a long time but that was a really good one that was a really good great podcast tim was think about Tim Tim I I mean you think about the caliber of people that Tim Ferriss has on his podcast and it was my buddy Kirk parsley who introduced me to Peter attea with the purpose like Kirk was trying to trying to hook me up and and Peter when I talked to Peter who I’m now you know good friends with Peter too but you know it was the same thing like they’re trying to dis just decipher if I would be a person that would be interesting right to listen to so so awesome you know yeah like I said curtain hook me up with Peter Peter called Tim and said you should have this guy on your podcast and that was the first first interview I ever did no that’s in my life yeah sitting in Tim Ferriss is housed in the San Francisco Bay Area which he doesn’t own anymore because he moved to Austin Texas but just that like I went up there on a I

flew up there that was a good call cuz he said we can do it over a remote and I said now come up ya know cuz I I wanted communicating over the phone and there’s apps and there’s pauses you can’t see the person so thankfully I went up there and you know Matt let me actually stayed the night it was just awesome man Tim’s just was super cool and then so that podcast happens so you listen to that one oh yeah that’s interesting that you sort of figured that that communication thing cuz that’s a huge deal like if you can go if you have the option to go in person or over Skype of course you can choose in person that kind of seems obvious but I feel like people don’t understand how much of a difference that that makes like it’s denied in there it’s a 90 day situation I was working for the Admiral in charge of all the seals and there was a meeting happening in DC like at the Pentagon and the Admiral had a small a small decision was being made and he had an opinion on it and someone else had another opinion on it and he talked to the guy that was making the decision it was like hey you know do you want me to come out here for this meeting and the guys like well you don’t have to and the Admiral is like okay cool cuz it for the Admiral and I they meant us getting on the you know on a flight fly in six hours not like we have a jet like we’re gonna get on a commercial flight we’re gonna stay the night and some random hotel bla bla bla so he goes okay well you understand my perspective boss sounds good if you don’t need me out there I won’t come so we did a VIP it was a video teleconference and I’m sitting in there and the decision goes the other way mm-hmm and the Admiral goes he soon as we got off he looked at me he said I should have gone to that meeting yeah and I was like Roger that boss you you face to face is a big deal yeah especially if there’s no relationship established yeah if you if you don’t have a relationship with someone you need to go build it and you build it as much as you possibly can face to face yeah yeah and there’s and there’s a lot of I mean there’s a lot of over obvious stuff you know but you know to figure that when you figure that it’s like okay these for these obvious reasons or whatever but not so obvious reasons are just the little teeny tiny almost subconscious subtleties of being there with someone even like split seconds in a conversation can like can make a difference between like if it’s like cohesive or feels cohesive for sure and that’s not and that’s of course from person to person but from people listening as well so like that that’s why I like I think that was a good good move for you to just make that make that sacrifice I can go up there and be there with him ya know it was awesome and Tim was pretty in the groove at that time like he he knew how to do it and he and also the format of his podcast was like you knew kind of what I kind of knew what he was gonna ask about and and yet you could veer off and talk about other subjects so it was like a really nice way to kick things off and now that I’ve done a bunch of television interviews podcasts are just infinitely more comfortable for me you know so some people they don’t want to get trapped in some long term conversation and after remember what they just said and formulate thoughts fresh on them on the spot on the moment whereas because the TV people that are doing TV interviews they they’re not formulating thoughts at that moment they go into that with a preconceived statement they got four sentences that they’re gonna say and that’s what they’re gonna say it doesn’t really matter what they get asked so some people would prefer to do that some people would prefer to do along I don’t mind doing either but it’s infinitely more fun yeah and thought-provoking and intellectually stimulating to actually have a legitimate conversation with and with with Tim which was which was awesome so that was a very cool way for me to kick things off we’re lucky yeah and and me I was just like probably millions of people who like knew about Joe Rogan listening to Joe Rogan’s podcasts which that’s kind of like the standard you know that that top standard of podcasts but here’s the thing about it’s like since is so conversational where he’s like just talking in there in the early days of Joe Rogan podcast he um he would just talk to like read ban and like his friends and they’re just talking about stuff you know um now it’s like there’s a lot more to it for sure but back then it was like oh these are just guys cruising down in their basement or some cool room that they’re just basically what we all sort of do it anyway and talk shit with with each other and with friends and so I think me like millions of other people were like man that’d be so cool to be able to do that do a podcast like that you know just talking with my friends or whatever and then so being in jujitsu I think that a lot of people are in this same boat where they know the guy who like when he’s kind of talking everyone sort of just listens and likes to chime in

and whatever right so like with us and Judy she was like you and even Dean when he’d talk about jujitsu or stories or whatever like they there’s a lot of cool conversations that go on on the mat after were before Jia to whatever and now those things would always go on those are the things were going on way before it’s in Ferriss interview right so before the whole podcast idea we already had I think I was like a lot of people we already had kind of for lack of a better way of putting it like dreams of doing some cool podcasts like everyone had that thought not that we were ever gonna pursue it or nothing like that but they thought like wouldn’t that be so cool if we could have a podcast like Joe Rogan does and have it be like a good you know successful one a lot of you and you get even nowadays people young like all the time saying like oh yeah like I want to start my own podcast yes right cuz it’s like when you listen to two people talking it’s like man that’s your job man that’s the coolest thing in the world so I already had that in my brain so when you went on Tim Ferriss I was like man when he was like you should do but yeah you should do we should do apply it to me that was like we should do a pod that so that’s actually beautiful Joe Rogan I was like hey we should do a podcast in you you were like yeah you’re like we like why would you be on like it doesn’t I said you should have me on and you were like why like what and it wasn’t like it’d be pretty easy for me to be like dang bro like freaking why you gotta say like that why would you ever be on it but I didn’t think like that yeah I don’t feel like you’re saying it like that Ashton like why why would you be on it yeah it didn’t make sense to me yeah and I had it in my brain just like I said we’re brow just be the person you’re talking to well just be normal be a normal person you know and if I have questions I’ll ask questions like that’s not what I’m here for I’m here to just you be talking to somebody rather than talking through the microphone or talking to the screen by yourself or whatever which you know that’s fine too but it it’s just in so I was essentially like thinking of Joe Rogan’s podcasts where he’s like talking to somebody the whole time someone’s there listening and chiming in whenever that’s my that was my little engineered perceived or conceived yeah you know you know what I was thinking I’ve told you this before when it comes to having multiple people on the same pod like on our podcast we don’t haven’t had many episodes where we’ve had more than one person to interview yeah one of the reasons is like I already talked about and we already talked about if there’s a bunch of people talking I won’t talk yeah and so what I was thinking myself well when I’m getting interviewed by Tim Ferriss he’s asking me questions okay I answer them because I’m being you know I’m being asked a question so I’m going to answer it Joe Rogan’s asking me questions I’m gonna answer them but if you put me into a situation where there’s multiple people the and they want to talk I’ll just let them talk I’ll listen so in my mind I was like thinking well if I have someone else on there then I’ll just sit there and listen to them talk and well if people if Tim Ferriss is telling me to have a podcast he’s not telling me to have a podcast so I can sit there and listen to someone else I should be talking okay got it so for me I had to get over the the idea of like oh well and then I thought you like I said earlier you’re not a person that you know when we’re having a normal conversation you’re not one of these people it took hold on waiting listen to my viewpoint you’re a person that goes oh that’s cool interesting you’re all you you will listen as much as I will and so that’s why I thought okay cool yeah make sense good call echo Charles yeah fully and keep in mind too yes it was like a partially my selfish reasons like I wanted to be on a podcast for sure but not at any moment was I being like hey so I can be a star too it was I didn’t have that at all like I knew what I was getting into it I knew why I could do it not because I have all these cool things to say cuz I don’t really like in my mind like I’m that’s not what I’m thinking especially compared to you Tim for that interview Tim Ferriss like bro I literally could could never bring anything like this to the table but if you’re over here talking about like stuff salsa and in ice to have just little detailed questions about that just to clarify what you’re saying or whatever like I think that I could facilitate in that way and not to mention just technically I could make the whole thing happen and I have my own little creative ideas as well with that so I’m figuring yeah that’s it but yeah it never even entered my mind that like it’s my podcast I’m gonna talk you know if you’re gonna sort of listen to me sometimes so you did have a vision for the podcast because the podcast number one I had a vision too my vision was basically what the podcast is right now that’s what I had the vision of hey we’re gonna execute this thing like a military operation boom it’s gonna and the first podcast starts off with your vision which is you know we’re kind of talking and then we kind of we kind of drift into the beginning of the podcast and then we kind of trip and and actually you know as you know me and my kind of leadership principles at this time I wasn’t a hundred percent sure that I was right I just thought to myself this is what it’ll be and then

you had a different idea and we didn’t really talk about it until the next podcast and I came in was like cuz I listened to it I was like yeah that’s not we shouldn’t do it that way in my mind I was like well I don’t think we should do it that way I think this isn’t things should start and one thing that I wanted it to do was like start right like when you press plates yeah when you press I wanted people when they put their headphones on and press play they were like okay here it comes and that means no intro music there’s no advertisements rolling in it’s like hey this is jockle podcast number four here we go rock and roll and and so that’s what we started doing one podcast number two yeah what’s funny is like that um so there’s two kind of thoughts and I didn’t think it out fully but I just got sort of felt like you know Cree it was like a creative feeling I guess maybe them drove that decision to make to be like oh yeah I just sort of roll into it casually because you know like certainly move like movies start in all kinds of different ways right some movies start just the way how you were saying like you wanted to start like it begins and then some movies just sort of star and fold yeah they don’t know credits no nothing but it just sort of like people just sort of doing something and you’re like wait what are they doing okay let me see you know Bowman it sort of slowly develops into this thing then it maybe hits you with something and boo-boo-boo so I remember like I’m vaguely remember editing it and be like when should I start because we’re talking a bunch before that too and then what so when should I just roll into this and then it was like me talking actually it was like what was that pomegranate pomegranate chai cuz you’re drinking the white cheese you’re like white tea yeah and then man I remember thinking that is like yeah that was cool but then yeah you shut it down the room like that but you I think even thinking back on it the way you haven’t given what you took and wound up talking about it something like that it’s yours is way better way better yeah and I just did a bad job of out of the gate kind of explaining yeah we didn’t talk about it but what’s interesting too is uh I think it was Brittany Oh Brandon Peck worth yeah yeah so he was talking to me was a while ago he was like saying that out of the gate with this podcast it’s you know when you hear people you go oh listen to Joe Rogan’s first podcast or listen to Tim feel even Tim Ferriss a listen to my first podcast I know what I was doing it’s mom it’s this it’s that and it takes a while for people to kind of figure out where they’re going I mean it might take 2030 a hundred episodes or whatever at least 30 40 50 of people trying to where they kind of find their groove and Brandon was like out of the gate your podcast hasn’t even changed that much I mean it’s we did make you know I mean I think we’ve improved we’ve improved our audio would probably speak better now but it wasn’t like it’s not this drastic turn around from we were doing something radically different look the podcast is essentially the same now as it was on Episode one it’s essentially the same thing yeah and so I’ve and I think that did that is based on what I thought the podcast was going to be like and I should have done a better job of saying hey here’s what we’re doing yeah but I didn’t you know I didn’t if you remember if you and even think about it right now you know we don’t like especially like creative stuff like you don’t we don’t really talk about you’re just like you just do it and then if I if I go off the rails in one way or another then you’ll take me back up whatever but yeah we never did like it was like you said like one thing like hey we should do it in black and white actually did you even say that yes yes and now sorta it and then we talked about like the enteric like the ideal look would be like an interrogation room I mean I use the term interrogation room but just like super simple whatever but yeah other than that we’re just you just sort of like let me do whatever the varying levels of success I guess and so then that came out of the gate it was we got really lucky I mean at the time there wasn’t a lot of pot there was there was a lot of podcast but there wasn’t even close to the number of podcasts that there are now and that went that went forward pretty quick and next thing you know we were like on it was it was happening yeah I mean it was happening meaning meaning this idea of of hey this is this will be cool to try they went from this will be cool to try to like we this is what we’re doing it went to that in two or three episodes you know I mean maybe it was even one episode I mean first episode came out it was like okay everyone said more and and we did we know yeah we didn’t know we’re gonna I told you were gonna do one a week I think I think that was from the beginning yeah it’s like a we’re gonna do one a week and there’s a time when I wavered for a little while probably 40 episodes in or something I was like I don’t know if I can keep I don’t know if I can prove I don’t know if I can get this much content read I don’t know if I

can do this so we might have to go to one every two weeks and I got shut down by the people oh yeah yeah yeah yeah I forget when that was but yes I remember that how old I told a couple people that s LAN Front was working with one guy named Mike great guy I was going to a job site with him and I just we were driving and I said yeah you know I’m thinking about going to like maybe put in the podcast once every two weeks and it was yeah it was like I told him that you know there was a disease you know it was like really bad and and he’d that seen his reaction there was one other person I told the same thing and got the same exact reaction which was like you they were almost he was almost like lost for words you know because this was early so there was still it wasn’t like you could go oh well just listen to one that I haven’t listened to her one I haven’t heard in a while this was hey there’s only this many episodes and I’m waiting for the next one yeah you know I don’t remember him being up you you you know you you should think about that and I remember what he said he said uh he said cuz there’s people that are waiting for these to come out yeah and I said to myself oh yeah I gotta I gotta get I gotta work harder yeah and I could and I be it makes sense yeah just for Carnegie it makes sense too because of how like you know you were pretty act like engaged with the people too and out and I was too like when people would be like hey that was this and that’s fine and you’d be engaged like online on Twitter and stuff like that so it kind of like it really felt like in in a lot of ways it still does feel like we were sorta all in this together like everyone like me knew doing it and then everyone whoever was listening like they were kind of in it too you know so still feels like that yeah absolutely and what’s crazy is you go to Australia where we just were and it’s the same way well we’re literally the other side of the world and people are asking me about hey well you said this in episode 48 did you think I’m like yes I did think that I could tell you know people are that into it yeah which is awesome but back in the day when it’s when you first sort of start your that feeling is so on the front of your mind like it feels like we were just all doing a people giving the input cuz I’m trying to look I mean I don’t know about you but I was trying to figure out a lot of stuff early on as well like how to get certain things done or accomplished or whatever and people were trying to you know jumping out of the woodwork kind of like hey you should do this better you know you should compress the audio you should do so I’m taking advice I’m Lee you know so we’re all sort of in it together and there was one episode I forget what episode it was when it sort of hit a point where there were so many downloads that it crashed our website and like the podcast like the hosting right in it um cuz you know when you start I don’t know about that I don’t know but that can stuff like where after certain am I crazy to to think that yeah people it seem crazy to think that we’d have enough downloads that it would crash the system yeah yeah so and so of course I mean whether that whether or not that came across my mind you know maybe maybe not but it wasn’t like a worry I wasn’t concerned about that at all I was like no this is a it’s a computer whatever so you know you have this host for this and the webson of this and that and the the moment that I was like okay there’s a lot of people like depending on this for lack of a better way of putting it is when it crashed on the day that I you know released a podcast it crashes says like you know whatever it says technically I got to do all this stuff and just Twitter Facebook like emails like through the website my personal email like coming in like where’s the podcast web and it was probably way less of a deal then then it seemed like to me at the time but still when you get like essentially let’s face it strangers people I don’t know like just by the hundreds just saying where’s the podcast where’s about yes it’s kind of like them saying hey where’s our where’s our dinner you know like where is our pocket and I’m like oh my gosh I’m like Rick you know worried then at the end of like worried about you like oh man if I’m feeling this and I’m not even the star the but guess what the hell’s Jocko thinking and he’s gonna kill me and all this stuff and I regret even doing this with me should I did it with some professional diet and all the stuff and then every once in while you text me hey so how’s it going so to me that the way that the way I interpreted that how’s it going is like what the hell like the freaky but then you call everyone’s well this was a matter of days like days are going on still well this love this is when the podcast crash crash and I would text you like hey yeah like how’s it going yeah are we making any progress yeah yeah I remember I was on an OP I was in Iraq I was on my first deployment and we were traveling a far distance to the south of Iraq there was some mayhem going on we’re traveling through this city there’s eerie there’s people whistling it’s just it’s the middle of the night and we get lost and we’re driving around and I’m I’m

tracking and so finally we stop and I go up to the lead nav who’s a great guy in the lead vehicle and I look at him and I I could see the look in his eyes like we’re lost just know where we are yeah and I go I go how’s it going bro and and like just that right there like he is just his look of panic and when I said hey how’s uh how’s it going bro his look of panic went down a little bit huh and he goes I don’t know where we are and I go okay cool that’s I literally said I go okay cool we’re gonna set a perimeter take your time figure out where we’re at and how we can get back on track let me know when you’re ready and he goes Roger that and and then it allowed him to actually decompress for a second and figure out where we weren’t it took him a minute two minutes and then he you know we did it so that idea of instead of texting you whereas the smack ass people are waiting for it yeah hey how’s it going we making any progress yeah yes and so that became clear when you actually would like would call and be you’d be like same thing I think even said the same thing and you write many because but I’m not used to that you know like when something’s that was pressure you’re not work yeah you’re not used to pressure well no no I’m used to some pressure I mean let’s face it I’m from quiet not that much pressure but okay we’re you know working for people in the deadline and hurry up and you know like this and you know where are we with it something going wrong and stuff like that that okay I’m no stranger to that but the reaction for the people who I’m working quote-unquote for I’m not used to them being so cool about it usually them saying well are we you know their frustration is now you know kind of part of my world my added for us or stress whatever so when you came with that with how’s it going bro it was like I was like dang this is like it really helped it really helped a lot so meanwhile but still is problem still there meanwhile I’m not getting that level of coolness from the general public our people and it you know it morphed into jokes about echo how he’s not know cruising too hard and like all this stuff which is kind of cool I guess it’s funny but anyway then our savior Brady Lanter comes and is like hey I can I can help you with this and all that all knows all this technical background stuff which I knew like a little bit from web development but he knew like the real tech side and then he basically took my hand and held my hand and called some people and boom boom you got to do this hey we got to spend a little bit more money to do this but we can we can patch it up and man he got it he got it rolling and like literally solved that problem forever so man but point is there where that’s when I knew that yeah like how you say like you can’t really do it twice or once every two weeks because people were like hey we kind of need this thing that’s when it was clear to me that yeah man it’s we kind of have like we’re all kinda in this together and you can’t just boss out once every two weeks yeah and you also can of I mean I always feel this way about everything too but you also can’t be like oh you know what we’ll just throw something together and put it out there like that’s not happening yeah so it has to be a real effort 100% of the time yeah or is it failure all right so that’s cool you get some technical knowledge from just the function of being the guy that’s putting this stuff together what about just from sitting across the table for what are we almost four years yep yeah almost four years what are the lessons learned from a broader perspective life wise well they yeah it started quick too so okay so remember get what the early episodes like I would you’re out drink I’d have a drink going you know you say drink you mean alcohol you’re not talking a jock would discipline go or a jock a white tee a little hit discipline hitter yeah I’m talking you’re drinking what did you used to drink vodka and soda water there you go yeah or sometimes a B or whatever but it was like that was one of those things and not that I was like nervous doing it but I was like kind of nervous going into it kind of thing and it was just yeah like a little comfort thing or whatever and it was one of those things where you didn’t necessarily tell me like hey you don’t need to do that you know like you or that’s week or now that you didn’t tell me that but there was always like this feeling of it you know and it could hit me where that’s like yes pee right yeah what kind of extrasensory perception yeah that’s like me just kind of wheeling yeah like thoughts into your

head I guess but there’s I’d say one of the early things that you said and not necessarily to me but just on the podcast that you know like you say a lot of stuff and it’s kind of like and you are essentially talking to me right where you’re sitting across talking to me but one of the things you said was um you already know the right thing to do you just have to do it then I’m like ah yeah I’m thinking like okay I heard that before but but you start to think about it I call man that’s true huh you just you just you know already it’s not like a big like mystery like you know it’s like water because kind of lame to know the right thing to do and not do it there has to be something to with the fact that you’re not just hearing me say the words but you are a person that actually sees what I’m doing on a daily basis in a way yeah you know what I’m doing yeah you see what I’m doing so when I’m saying that it’s not like oh you whatever what’s that word drifted through all right what’s that called scrolled through your Instagram feed and someone said you already know what to do just do it you’re actually watching me and saying oh yeah he’s he knows what he’s supposed to do and he’s doing yes so and in here the here is when that part became clear where the first time okay so okay so I’m recording a podcast let’s say five episodes in we’ll just say no maybe it’s more maybe it’s less but five episodes in it’s like okay that’s five weeks every week now you’re and we’re recording in my house and this time and you’d come up and it was like at night do we have to do it after Prezi was asleep yeah after we and and you’d come up we’d record him like cool and then one time I’m like shoot is like again again again and then you’re coming in with your notes and all this stuff like man this guy is like Brad this guy’s no quit cuz it was like you can be doing the coolest funnest thing but when it’s like coming again and again and again you’re like whoa let me let me take a rest between sets here a little bit you know but nope not you you’re just rolling in and then after a while when when I start getting used to it that’s what I’d like sort of reflect like men if you weren’t here doing this right now if I let’s say I filled my little weirdo dream of having a podcast and that’s my job I don’t think I would I don’t think I would have done it as much as often for sure I would have started it’s like slowing down or whatever because there would be times where I’d be like man maybe we should just take this week off kind of thing it’s not like it’s this crazy hard work and just it’s just that’s sort of how it is but it seems like that didn’t faze you at all I remember one time I had a gig on the East Coast and I flew and then I had another gig on the East Coast and I had what a day in between and we and we own a podcast and I flew back to San Diego we went recorded the podcast and I flew back out to the east coast yeah yeah and I said hmm that’s what we’re doing here yeah in this podcast god yeah man and that’s it’s like that is so such a for lack of a better term like so I’m so lucky in that way because like that that’s not like a rare thing where you’re hanging around with someone and they rub off on you you know where you knew all this stuff but since the person right next to you is doing it then you start to do it you know it’s like like jujitsu you know you hear about Jesus we know about Jesus or whatever but it’s like what if like your brother starts doing jujitsu or whatever or the people at work start doing jujitsu then you go check this out it like it kind of influences you you know in that way so it’s lucky that like Ana this is every week not to mention all the training jiu-jitsu so I’m around you more and we’re talking about it and its new and exercise so we’re always talking about so oh yeah man I was just primed for influence at that time so at that point I was like yeah man he’s really doing it and going back to you already know the right thing to do you just have to do it me know so I’m like okay and then I see you doing it so that influenced me to like really take that into consideration as far as like daily conscious thought you know so so then that what did that actually turn into as far as action wise okay first I stopped drinking and here’s hey I didn’t stop drinking but I stopped drinking where that was like a habit so I stopped that and so you went from just used to juice to drink every day every day yeah how often you drink now well there’s no like often like sometimes we’ll drink sometime they won’t but yeah once a month once a week some day yes like sometimes none a month zero a month but then sometimes like three times a week whatever and this is just how it shook itself out like now it’s not a habitual thing every night you know it’s just it’s more of it yeah I can maneuver my way through any like drinking scenario you know and I don’t even know if I was like addicted like an alcoholic I mean maybe technically on paper or something maybe but it was a kind and it was basically this if I had three and I think I told this before where there was

three factors with drinking a lot and that was if I was undisturbed meaning by like my family or any like obligations you know like I got to drive somewhere or take care of the kids or whatever undisturbed its meaning you if you had no responsibilities at a certain time certain time yeah so that’s an opportunity to drink and a likelihood drink yes okay that was a factor of putting on it and then the other one was obviously alcohol present right and then the third one was being in front of my computer that was it if any of those with one or more of those three factors were not there like I wouldn’t drink I’m not compelled to drink at all you know like I’m not against drinking like I’ll go out and drink sake or some whatever but it was a non-factor but if you get those three especially back then if I had those three present which was essentially every night the kids go to bed you know I don’t have to wake up early for something specific or whatever um my computer and it’s weird cuz it wasn’t my laptop when I’m traveling or something like that it was like my home computer it’s weird but if those three things were present like you saw is pretty much uncontrollable so then what was it that broke that that that thing like you’re a thing where it’s like you know the right thing to do you just gotta do you know like and this is I think always gonna be the case I’m sure it’s something has to do with your brain but like you can know the right thing to do you can do you know huh but you oh it’s almost like you oversimplify it you’re like hey how do you wake up early wake up early you know but a real person will be like how do I wake up early okay yeah I wake up early yeah that’s where I want to get how do I do that you’re like yeah I just do it it’s like you’re skipping all these like mental loses and acrobatics that normal people do on like emotions and have it and like all this like stuff that we have to sort of go through to get there you know cuz we like certain comforts in fact not only do we like them it’s like we can sort of need them in in a little bit a little bit of yourself right exactly right and you kind of oversimplify it so coming from someone just telling you that oh yeah I just wake up early you’re like okay like I shouldn’t even have asked you because essentially in a way it’s not really what I’m asking like I know that part like how do I get there how do I make that part like more accessible or that ability more accessible to myself that’s kind of what they’re asking but meanwhile like I’m watching you do all these things and it’s kind of like that’s how you are you just oversimplify it kind of thing like you just alright I’m just gonna do it granted there’s more to it but like what I’m seeing you just do it so I guess I’m just gonna do it then and then you do it then it’s kind of coffee right should have done that like 10 years ago that is literally how simple it is granted it’ll make it’ll be just as simple or just as complex and hard and um you know slippery of a situation as as you make as you allow it to be yeah and allow it yeah but when you kind of when I think back on it for myself I’m like making it complicated it like putting effort into making a car and I still do it that’s the Hamburglar it’s one step further than allowing it to be me making a comment I think that’s all most of us are that’s the thing so okay so here’s another thing that I learned when you’re like oh and it does go back to just you know the right things you just do it regarding out right so I working I like to work you know weightlifting and stuff I sort of liked it you know sort of one of those things look for it but you know I see it all do you have other responsibilities all this stuff you don’t necessarily like it as much but you know it’s good for you and all this stuff so there was a point where it was really easy to just define skip workouts let’s do it tomorrow whatever because they don’t feel like it I can get enough rest or I’m doing this other thing or whatever right but if you’re just like hey you know it needs to be done you just do it don’t think about it don’t think about but that’s not really how my brain work my brain worked where I was I was kind of dependent on that that that good feeling of looking forward to working out and getting fired up and working out I was kind of dependent on that feeling you don’t realize it but it’s there fully were you dependent on it so you’re just like yeah you just don’t think about just do it but I’m like wait but but I really don’t feel like it you know like that’s just a given I don’t feel like that’s a given part of the equation so then what I would do is okay I’ll just do it but not do it like I just do it as in workout I just do it as you try to get fired up and try to get myself motivating get get fired up to do this stuff but that’s not that’s not how it works you ski you don’t you don’t work harder to get that unnecessary part of it into the equation you can if it were free but but that’s not the point you were that I took from it the point is you skip that but you just go work out just do it you know kind of thing I think it’s so simple when I’m like saying it out loud that’s a good connection to make a good connection to make with when it’s like just go do the

activity it’s not just it’s not hey just force yourself to get fired up just force yourself no yeah because you can’t even do that yes yes I can try but why waste the energy on that just go do the activity that you’re supposed to do yeah and then another thing is like you make a good play it’s like a lot of this stuff is just sort of there and you’re just there to like grab my hand and like be like here see this see the thing you’ve been seeing this whole time you know that’s crazy okay so when you’re learning to do have you ever learned something in jiu-jitsu we cannot believe that you couldn’t figure that out that you didn’t figure that out I’ll give you an example here’s a real simple example you’re mounted on someone and they start to push your knee or with their hand or their elbow to start an elbow escape I remember like people would do this to me I mean I’m I’m a wipeout maybe even I’m a blue belt mmm and I think I asked Dean I’m like hey Dean what do you do when they start pushing and he goes oh so he does it to me or he you know he mounts me he goes here push my knee so I start pushing his knee he reaches down on this hand pulls it off yeah and and and the answer was so obvious and this is one of hundreds of examples and I’m not the smartest guy in the world but I’m not that stupid either and for me to not be able to figure out certain things it shows you that if you can’t it shows you that there’s certain things that can be right in front of your face and you just don’t see them and I think that’s what you’re talking about like I’m not holding your I’m just going hey no no wait let me show you exactly what to do here you just do this yeah it’s like oh yeah and there’s a lot you know there’s I’ve heard many people have told me that that’s what they got from the podcast or that that’s what they got from extreme ownership or their economy leadership or the discipline equals freedom Field Manual they’re like I always thought that I always knew that I mean I was just with the Australian when we were at the monster you know an Australian guy that was in the military for what a long time and he said yeah when I read when I read your book I was like yes you just put into words what I the way I’ve been trying to lead and the good thing about that is you have the idea in your head of what’s good but you don’t necessarily codify it where you can now say yes this is the answer so that that’s a it’s a big step it’s like occasionally you randomly pull the hand that’s getting you in the mouth you might do it occasion but you don’t actually know it and identify it as something you can do whereas once you go when someone’s doing that here’s the reaction bunk do so there’s there’s a definite plus to that yeah and in that rabbit hole of like revelations like that is is endless keeps like going and going and going and in certain things you sort of forget to you know cuz you know a human being we’re all human beings with habits and stuff like that so you forget certain ones or whatever but man it’s like they’re everywhere everywhere so even like the whole just the whole concept of if you don’t feel like doing it but you need you know that it has to get needs to get done or whatever or even just that you want it to be done but you don’t feel like it just that just excluding the part that you don’t feel like it just doing that seems like super simple and he or it seems easy it is very simple it seems like pretty easy when you say it and then when you go through it it’s it seems so hard but the weird that and this is nothing new where once you once you get it done like okay so an email right no you may or may not go through this but a lot of us got this where it’s like you have this nagging email of someone that you have to respond to someone and to respond to them you need certain information and to get that information you got to go reopen some files and stuff like that so it’ll take two minutes two minutes not even two minutes but you got a your brain has to stop thinking this way it has to pivot and change these weird directions and do all this other stuff right now so you took man I don’t feel like doing that right now I’m doing this other stuff or I’m just not doing that right now I’ll do it tomorrow do it later today whatever and then it winds up being like weeks and meanwhile still there they you know still they’re hanging over your head hanging over your head then you’re like I can talk about that on the warrior kid podcast letting your homework hang over your head yeah okay actually there’s some kids apply to know what hang over your head of kind of kind of explain what that means yes because when someone’s hanging over your head what are you waiting you’re waiting for that thing to hit you so you don’t want that you’ve got when you get home from school do your homework don’t let a hangover it ruins their whole night so that you know it’s gonna ruin your whole night your whole dink your whole life you know life so any not in this huge way but it’ll be nagging yes like you know it’s kind of like when you’re sleeping and you gotta use bathroom and you’re like oh you don’t want to get stand-up just go just good anyway so meanwhile okay then finally you’re like you know what finally I feel like you know finally I can’t take it anymore finally it’s irritating it’s irritating me enough so I’ll do it you go in the email you take care of thing you do it

it takes two minutes or whatever you’re done you’re like why did I just do that a long time ago I wouldn’t have felt any of that stress or whatever and so but habitually going into that mode where it’s like okay this needs to get done I don’t care how I feel I’m just gonna do it real quick like that in and of itself is a habit is a way you know is it a way of thinking that at the very least so if that was something that I got better at as well mm-hmm the other thing that’s been interesting well interesting from my perspective is that you are de facto detached during this whole thing so you get to be I mean first of all even when if I’m covering a book I mean you’re listening but you get to kind of observe me reading the book thinking about the book talking about the book when we have guests on a lot of times you don’t say anything and you’re just completely getting to observe this whole thing unfold from the outside so you could I know I’ve we’ve gotten done with some pot and someone would ask me say like well how was that like one of our guests would say how was it and I’ll look at you and say how was it cuz I’m in it and you have a better perspective because you are literally detached and watching it I mean I’m somewhat detached but I’m also reading writing thinking engaging answering so I’m doing all those things and I’m detached from that enough you know I’ve detached from it enough that I can guide the conversation I’m detached from enough that I’m not getting too emotional or too stuck on something or I mean let’s let’s face it there’s been some danger close calls for those emotions are creeping up you know sitting across from a from a guy that’s you know what I’ve been through whatever and you’re bringing those emotions back out of them and I mean it can get dangerous for sure and sometimes I got to do a little detachment to keep it real but you all and sometimes I do a better job than you do because because you’ll be over the court or you’ll be sitting in your chair you know and I gotta I gotta try and keep it together yeah cuz you’re not so but that’s sometimes sometimes you get wrapped up in the emotions of the story yourself especially if it has to do with kids and you kind of lose the bubble and but other than those moments a lot of times you’re sitting there just listening and you’re detached so you kind of get to you kind of get a great perspective of it which is nice yes sir yeah I’d say I’m like maybe 60% maybe 50% detached because I’m like I’m the audience member just like everybody else really like when you’re talking about stuff and or when you’re interviewing someone like men I’m enjoying the show like everybody else but I’m like in the show as well you know so as an audience member will say uh that’s how I can evaluate hey that was a good show or like bro what do you used to even talking about right now nothing that it’s ever happened I’m not saying it has you know but um the end that’s why it is you know so yeah I will be affected by these things and but then I’ll be affected even more because yes I am part of it like I’m in it you know I’m sitting there across from you guys um but yes yeah because when you’re talking um whatever you or even like let’s say when I’m I’m talking you even right now like there’s a few things sort of rolling in my brain like okay sure I say what I’m gonna say my little idea and it comes out but then there’s like a post talk thought is always saying yeah exactly like a little bit like shit am I saying the right thing you know or did that sound dumb it’s like it’s just a constant like small like humming evaluation kind of process that’s going on and then it’s like okay like do I want to interrupt at this point cuz I have a thought but no I couldn’t so I’m sort of minding my P’s and Q’s as well you know so there’s all these little things that hold you in and not it won’t it’ll kind of keep you from being detached but I don’t have that when I’m not saying anything you know but yeah even you I mean I would imagine you’re you kind of have the same thing you know you have to run this you have to yeah I gotta think about what I’m saying at the same time this is a visitor dichotomy of that if you think about what you’re saying too much it’s not very good it’s just like jujitsu right if you’re thinking about a move it’s too late if you if you’re analyzing what you’re gonna say before it comes out of your mouth to make sure that’s the right thing where you you’re it’s not not the right thing to do at the same time you can’t just go verbal diarrhea and just start spewing stuff out because now you now you may say some stuff that you shouldn’t say you know so there’s a little little game that you have to play you have to you have to kind of assess that stuff you have to be detached when you’re doing it to make sure that you don’t say something stupid and you can’t say stupid stuff I mean I I think about the amount of interviews I’ve done and and just like you you never know when it’s gonna come I’m sure at some point I’m gonna say something go yes I wouldn’t have said that I should have never said that because you it is what it is yeah and you could I mean and

it makes sense to where you can you can have a certain thought and then there’s like how do you say that thought right like how do you how do you articulate your thoughts right and to expect or to think that like if you have a thought it’ll be perfectly articulated or whatever those don’t go hand in hand you know some people are super good at it like in fact you’re like you’re one of the better people that I’ve written anyway that at that probably you know probably could he keep things pretty simple most of the time but at the same time like you’re not immune to that you know so sometimes like your articulation of a certain thought will come off like different you know it’ll come off like it might even be accurate but then the way it’ll land on people will be like okay and I’m not saying this it necessarily has happened I’m saying this this type of stuff can’t happen so it’ll be like oh yeah you came off as like insensitive or you don’t understand or you’re racist or you’re you know like all these interpretations that seem like reasonable interpretations given the words that you said but it’s like man that was just I shouldn’t have said it that way cuz it’s not quite as accurate as what I think you know so yeah you gotta constantly monitor that little gem yuh-huh there is it for that yeah what about in terms of relationships like your wife what have you taken away take it man does your wife does your wife like you more now yeah or before I think I think she likes me more now put it this way like I I like our relationship better now and that’s saying a lot because like we have a good we already had a good relationship you know like I was one of these we’re like these people who we knew each other before we started dating like we knew it so there was no like you can you can get in you can jam yourself up I think sometimes like if you jump into a dating situation like super early and then a marriage situation super early and whatever like you can jam yourself up I’m the same no this happens but you can and I’m not saying if you know someone for a long time it taking so I’m not saying that’s a perfect like solution I’m not saying that but in our case we took it like super slow so there was like we had a solid foundation have a solid foundation so the point there we had a good relationship but you know like any relationship there’s like arguments and you know I’m so sandy I’m sorry I shouldn’t have acted like that you know there’s like way less of that like because I know like habitually how to how to act you know so okay so extreme ownership right extreme ownership perfect that goes deep it’s that’s a concert like that Ravenel right there is like at first when you first like get introduced to it like oh yeah everything then you’re like yeah okay make sense cool I thought that yeah yeah yeah it’s the concept the ownership don’t blame I get it right but there’s like so many levels of blaming so many there’s like the overt like you should have done this like blaming right the kind I think it I say it I’m blaming 100% then there’s like oh you know it’s not your fault but inside your head you’re like it’s your fault you know so that’ll drive certain other like subsequent like behavior you know then there’s like okay I know I’m supposed to take I’m you’re thinking this Aryan I’m supposed to take extreme ownership so I’m not gonna blame them so it’s not your it’s my fault you know but meanwhile your behavior doesn’t like take full responsibility because kind of sort of quote-unquote deep down you know it’s kind of and it just goes deeper and deeper deep in here then you find out all these little pockets of like non extreme ownership you know that you have and to me granted you know my life is very specific but with your wife or I guess kids but that’s different but with your wife is a good it’s a good battlefield to to test that out and to learn about it because it can get so emotional you know like yeah and you don’t really have a break from it you know it’s like at work it’s like cool that didn’t work even if I messed up I can still go home to my lovely family or go out to the bar I I have a break from it you know with your wife it’s like you don’t have a break from it it’s like you got to perform you know that you gotta it kind of means a lot it matters a lot so I think it works good but at the same time you guys both have a commitment to be there so it’s like you can get cut some slack most of the time obviously it depends on your wife but in my case that’s how it was so what I sort of discovered and continue to discover like just how good it works just how good like extreme ownership just and everything that comes with it you know like not blaming all the little tips that you’ll say like um what is the one we’re like what do you say absorbing something you know when they come at you with something that happened to them like you totally like that oh man man golden ticket right there man so good even like and that reflect and diminish in fact you can even use it in like you

can just reflect Oh for you even have to diminish just jump up if it doesn’t mean anything you know just jump on our side right now you know well yeah you can jump on the side the thing is with the reason that diminish is important on reflect and diminish is because if you can fuel the fire even more what you want to move towards as a solution you want to you want to de-escalate the situation yeah but the best way to do that is to reflect the emotions that they’re showing and then diminish them a little bit so that they come so that they’re on your side yes but then they start to calm down yeah so you can like um you can refer so that one when I just said that is I’m thinking of like a few different scenarios where I’ll just refer I won’t even diminish until like the next day or something oh so essentially it’s really anybody but I’ll just reflect it so then did reflect oh man you know how how much it does for your well I mean speaking about myself I don’t know but no it’s true and and by the way you’re talking about this from a marriage perspective I’m talking about it from from a leadership perspective but and they’re the same thing they’re the same thing but what’s interesting is you just said you know how good this is and you’re right and you know what you got to be careful of that because it’s an easy way to bond with someone is they come in and say the boss sucks and you go yeah the boss sucks that’s actually not the right thing to do right you don’t want to disparage your boss what you want to say is you know you want it but you don’t want to say no the boss is awesome because now you’re at enemies right but when the person says oh the boss sucks and you say you know I’m not really sure where they’re making this decision from okay now you’re talking about decision so you’re giving them a little bit of reflection you’re diminishing a little bit so you can have a real conversation about what’s going on yeah yeah so there’s a certain scenario that that is comes up a lot this scenario literally means nothing at the end of the day so and you’ll get the award in my life I’ll get these from time to time work so for example my way like many ways watch reality TV from time to time and you know it’s the Real Housewives of this or married to medicine or whatever right these these are TV and they’re like boo depends on your opinion but you know they’re in my opinion wanted to let most like the lamest type of show but whatever shreya is goals they throw them together and they’re all rich and super immature and doing dumb stuff and yelling and sounds like awesome no they’re great TV so but here’s the thing you know when there’s like a sort of it you know when we’re just sort of cruising or relaxing or whatever and and it’s on this is what I used to do back in the day where I’d be like like what is this sure the show is dumb like this is seeing you disparage her the thing that she likes right and I mean that’s not what I’m meaning resumed you’re disparaging her oh yeah oh yeah but I didn’t mean to do that no more like I’m talking about the show you know spin truthful for being truthful exactly you know we’re just using radical candor yeah but meanwhile she did I mean she wouldn’t get mad but every once in a while she’d be like hey just leave me alone you know like I don’t I don’t you know talk trash about your shows you know I don’t give you issue she was like I don’t insult you you know about your shows or whatever meanwhile I’m thinking like keep in mind sometimes watch MacGyver and these types of shows right so I don’t really have much of a leg to stand on but in my head I’m like yeah cuz my shows are awesome kind of thing you know um and the thing is I’m not doing anything to her I’m talking about the show you know kind of thing but just like I you said it’s like I’m disparaging her taste and show her choices like basically are laughter hold so so I sort of start to realize that or whatever so I did the whole reflect no diminish cuz it’s meaningless the show and says me like I can disparage your show in her all are what she’s still gonna like the show you know it’s not like she bases her life on it this is literally meaningless so now she’ll be like oh my gosh she can’t believe like this lady did that I’m in the room so of course it could literally be a cat in the room she’d probably say the same thing like she’s just saying it to someone right I can’t believe I can’t believe she did this and she’ll like rewind it or whatever but like hell yeah yeah she’s so stupid like kind of like I’m into the show you know everyone said ah she’ll catch it she Blake pay you don’t like the show or whatever but and the thing is I don’t but it’s kind of fun to do yeah and at the same time it’s like consider the difference you know consider the difference be saying oh my gosh don’t you don’t don’t rewind it I don’t care about that’s it you know so it’s like that kind of stuff as well man where it’s like you kind of look it in you look at the whole situation as far as like the big picture you know where’s like did–we do I make it a point to make a point right now you don’t so that question for you yeah so when you look broadly what’s what’s like your most valuable thing that you’ve kind of adopted into your life since we started recording this podcast key there’s there at first there’s one but

there’s two things and they might play off each other I guess but the main one is the long game versus the short game and and you said that to me early on that I was like I would have never thought of that given what you said it about back then but the long game versus the short game cells like man so that’s stuck in my head and since then I realized every little move you make literally like in like I don’t care if it’s like you’re going to store to go buy some I don’t know paper towels or something dude it’s like there’s always a long game and a short game in play right now so anything and if you think about it anything that you’re successful at it’s like you you’re at least playing the long game some things in life people just aren’t even playing the game they’re just going a minute-to-minute you know and that’s a that’s short you know you you caught this at one of the musters a guy asked how often are you thinking strategically which thinking strategically is thinking a long game here and you you caught a clip of me getting a little bit fired up of saying you know I’m thinking strategic Oh time that’s let and that’s the truth that is the way you should look at every decision that you make why would you make a decision based on the short term how come being positive it if it has a negative long term effect you just shouldn’t do that you got to play the long game and I’ll tell you like I am thinking strategic all the time and that is so beneficial is so beneficial in everything that you do and yet it’s easy to get suckered in to making short-term decisions based on short-term gratification but based on the ease of movement based on a path of least resistance based on what’s gonna feel good right now based on even what’s gonna produce good results right now look we hope that our immediate results are aligned with our long-term results in something that benefits us right now will benefit benefit us in the long run that’s a great opportunity that does happen sometimes but sometimes oftentimes short-term gains will resent result in long-term losses so you got to think through this in everything that you do yeah and I remember one when that guy asked that question and I remember thinking to myself that that’s interesting it kind of became clear why that’s not so obvious and there’s obvious reasons why for sure because when he asked the when asked the questions like huh because when even when you put it in those terms like strategic versus tactical right tactical is the short-term game strategic is the long-term yeah even so when you put when you use those specific words okay so how often are you thinking strategic it’s almost like he gives this feeling it’s a feeling that you’re like plotting you know how often are you plotting meaning you have a certain plot in mind you know like but it doesn’t mean that like that’s one maybe possible way of seeing it but I don’t talking about that like everything is like a game like you’re moving through life you know so what where’s your aim gonna kind of sort of be and those those aims those goals for lack of better term or literally everything you do like you otherwise why what are you been doing why would even move a muscle you know if you don’t have like an aim to do it or whatever and that aim is gonna be there long term or short term we both can be both for sure and that’s like the that’s it’s rare but that’s really a good opportunity as you put it but even if like you stand it like you’re sitting there right not moving a muscle right we’ll say it’s good extreme example and you’re like okay I gotta move on so right maybe because I’m getting stiff or whatever there’s always some like goal that you gotta sort of achieve and if you look at everything like that and you consider okay what what’s the ultimate outcome that I want you know and you could just keep that in mind man that is like a life life-changing thing when you can really understand that I think that is a good one another thing that I told the story when we hit one time on this podcast and you mentioned it to me I was talking about how when I was young I was in the seal platoon and I was thinking I was all awesome and all of a sudden like other guys were getting promoted other guys were moving into better positions than me and I’ve kind of looked at myself and I said if you’re so smart then why aren’t you winning and that was a big step for me to come to that realization and and what’s good about it is that’s another kind of early indicator of taking ownership because instead of me saying look come I’m smart and I’m not winning cuz everyone else is against me because this guy is that and this guy’s an ass kisser and this guy you know all that could have done that instead I looked at myself and said wait a second if you’re so smart and and luckily for me some of the guys around me or good guys they were my friends they I knew that they were I couldn’t blame anything on them but if I was so smart why wasn’t

I winning yeah that’s the other thing oh that’s the other that’s the other hundred percent and you know you see it in people and like like a lot of these things just like extreme ownership like you can see it in other people super clear you know like this guy’s talking a lot of trash for being a loser and you know kind of thing you know like you know the old thing where it’s like oh yeah I’m getting read this guy’s giving me relationship advice and when he’s like a single person you know he doesn’t have a successful relationship or whatever you know like that kind of stuff it’s super easy to see that in other people but for yourself it’s like yeah man I have this cool idea that you probably got from someone else or whatever and you have this quite doing either you’re so quick to be to tell people about it and to correct this person you know because it’s so obvious they’re doing it wrong right so you’re gonna correct them and boom boom and you have your arguments and debates all like formulated perfectly way in any debate meanwhile you’re not doing anything you know if you six order it so that is a big deal like what I realized that that’s a huge deal like it and it’s way better just to be quiet man you gotta end it and it kind of like how you guys start part of the monster you dandy Berk they’ll good deal day you’ll talk about like taking action right so it’s like taking action part it’s like the hardest part of whatever right it’s like the guy who goes to school so much so much and then it’s like but he can’t really function the real world because his whole focus on is ongoing to school yeah or the person watching like a bunch of motivational videos and he’s just all he’s motivated to do is watch more motivational videos he doesn’t take any action or what everybody’s dopamine from a won motivational video do I do people yeah yeah yeah so that’s that’s what that’s what makes I’m gonna want want to go watch another one what’s more yeah yeah hell yeah yeah they’re like two things you know like two separate separate things but nonetheless it it kind of brings all that into perspective you know like you you if you’re not in or if you’re so smart why aren’t you winning so with the why aren’t you winning prep that’s the most important part you know like it’s almost like bra who cares how smart that person is you ever you ever hear someone hate on someone like oh they’re just dumb or whatever like uh who’s won the Kim Kardashian right you know people hate on her they’re like I’m not even saying necessarily that I feel this way but I’m saying this is what plays out a lot of times they’ll hate on her she’s so dumb and they’re so dumb or whatever and then it’s like alright but if you’re so not dumb like why is she like winning you know you’re sort of not you know kind of thing it’s like that whole idea is there is got put into perspective very much so it’s like that’s always on my mind to like before I opened my mouth or whatever it’s like bro you before you open your mouth you should really work on a bunch of stuff first so that’s yeah that’s a big one and it helps a lot too because you start to focus on doing rather than blabbing you know and platon I don’t mean just blimey I mean everywhere like on social media all these people having their strong opinions you know it’s crazy I know I I see that happen right you know like I when I was on with Joe and tulsi gabbard you know obviously there was there’s she’s a she’s literally running for president United States of America okay cool and there’s obviously we touched on we didn’t really like to have a debate by any stretch I mean we we both we both kind of talked about things and we all kind of talked about things as human beings that were whatever you know is pretty straightforward right but the the conversations that took place on Twitter after that I mean we’re talking just I I I was I was like man you is this the best place for this random person to have this major debate with some other random person about whatever topic had come up that was either you know they didn’t agree with or they agreed with so I think it’s a little crazy sometimes oh yeah I hear people say you know that Twitter is just the most horrible thing to participate in right and I don’t really think it’s a horrible thing in fact I’ve gotten great interactions on Twitter I’ve gotten incredible feedback I’ve met people I mean the whole reason that I was on with Joe and Tulsi was because of Twitter but books I’ve linked up with people we’ve had people on the podcast that I never would have heard of or never would have been introduced to that that are American heroes that have incredible stories that that’s all through Twitter I’ve gotten great feedback I’ve gotten adjustments I’ve gotten correct so that’s all good but yeah if you’re gonna go down the hole of like hey let’s debate this hot controversial topic you know it’s hard

for me to to to reflect on that in a positive way you know it’s like hard for me to look at someone go man this is what you you know you just sent out nine tweets like link you know you can link together and someone will send out nine tweets about some topic and it just worries me because I think there’s more productive things that people could do with their time like if you know if you want to put those things together in an organized way and you want to make those statements and almost always there attacking like in a super aggressive personal attack as well so anyways it’s just interesting yeah it says a lot like the word say what they say but like the fact that those words are there like says a whole nother thing you know like you know though nothing new where it’s like man you don’t have anything better to do than to like express and it’s not like a lot any by any logical means they’d come to the conclusion that yeah what I say is gonna like solve whatever problem is that I’m addressing you know whatever like there’s no reason to think that yeah I I guess I’m trying to think of a good metaphor for me this is like a metaphor if you saw someone that was having a that was shouting at but at a toilet at the top of their lungs and and they walk out of that stall kind of like oh yeah you know kind of like yeah and and I’m thinking man you just you just yelled because that’s what that’s what it is right you’re yelling at a toilet because whoever doesn’t wanna listen you isn’t gonna be even gonna read the little things that you wrote so once once again that’s why it’s more what’s more important is like why not find some common ground with someone from a leadership reform just from a leadership perspective right from a leadership perspective I want to find common ground with someone I want to figure out what it is that they think what their perspective is that I can understand their perspectives so that I can actually give them a logical argument or at least show them what I believe to be valid points so that they can then give me feedback on those points and I can learn from them and either adjust my position or adjust their position you can’t get that done when you’re yelling at a toilet which is a lot of people end up doing so but yeah that and also that reminds me as well and another is a little bit more of a detail than anything but like how you tell you do the dole but the musters you call it being a tactical genius I mean just be quiet and let everyone else talk kind of thing and this like I find way more prevalent when I hear two people talk they’re talking they’re debating and there’s little differences in differences and then you can kind of you know like you detach from it right but you actively did that because man before I was strongly compelled to like jump in and like correct you you’re wrong here and let me correct you right cuz I’m smart right gotta prove it to these people and prove I’m down down for this whole thing I’m smart right so a soul quick to like jump in and be like yeah you know that’s wrong that’s correct and let me expand on that kind of thing you know and it’s fun to do you know it’s a you know you’re having conversations whatever I dig it but there’s a bigger picture you know so if you don’t say anything you can see that bigger picture you can be like right you know how annoying you’re being right now like you’re I think you’re saying like truthful stuff or whatever but you’re beat there’s a bigger picture with what you’re doing so your tactics might be good your strategy is awful it’s way on a long name is weak you’re gonna win this argument and you’re gonna make this person dig in deeper that’s what’s gonna happen not to mention like you less yeah after this like you think you’re impressing them with the and I’m just thinking of like very specific conversations that that I’m remembering right now whether it be friends or whatever friend family but you kind of think to yourself man like I used to talk to my brother about this idea where it’s like man what you’re saying is correct in your little debate but about what you’re doing is wrong you can’t do that or you can but you’re gonna lose your war whatever so yeah so one the one of the things I learned that’s just with me right now just with me hardcore is just don’t say anything just be the tactical genius so when they ask you when they look at you or what you do for whatever like strategic reason wanna chime man yeah you’re like you’re way more in a position of that you want to be in you know and you you don’t run the risk of being all sucked in and alienating people doing all the things that that you’ve run the risk of doing when you’re you know trying to impress them with how smart you are and how good your position is you know all right so let’s get to your black belt yes sir you were surprised yes we did a good job

of keeping it under wraps yeah but had you at this point just surrendered the fact that you made we just were gonna be a brown belt for a really long time yeah and part of this part of it was like I’m glad I thought of it this way and part of it is like Manish you know you always think back on things like I you should have handled things or whatever soul could so moving up in ranks and and I say this kind in a way is it advice to maybe people who can fall into these psychological traps with the belt right they want a belt they want that straw right or the blue belt or the purple you know they want they want to get promoted right because they want to win part of it is because they want to wear that belt and it doesn’t keep in mind it does not help jiu-jitsu doesn’t help users react differently does not help this particular situation where you know when in our school I don’t like you so I thought you’re saying it does not help like oh definitely no no I thought you’re saying hey getting your black belt by the way it does not help your jujitsu which I was like thank you that’s a great belt does not make your jujitsu any better nope might even introduce the idea that it’s not nearly as good as you thought it was but yes oh yeah I’ll tell you about that too by the way but I’m saying the culture of jujitsu doesn’t help your think your mindset about this especially like our school doesn’t do this a lot where you know how they light everyone line up at the end or the beginning classes and is like hey by belt you white belts you go in the back on the back go suckers you know no sirs and subhuman Brett whatever you guys these averages oh yeah and oh the black belt not not even in the front row in front of everybody you’re facing man yeah you know you guys bow down in front of us kind of thing right and then okay if you’re a brown belt you’re almost here so you can come close right everyone else in the back you know so it’s like I dig it man I did that the jiu-jitsu culture does not help but if you can kind of get past that um this is how ideally I would have tried to think about it where you like okay so you the belt doesn’t matter okay so when I was coming up I didn’t know there was a dolt like I I didn’t really know I watched UFC one two three four you know those ones ensure high school wearing a belt but I joined nogi Dean so we don’t wear belts therefore no belts I don’t know I’m thinking back I didn’t think about this but I’m thinking that that’s probably my subconscious thought so one day Brant to remember aunty was one of the trainer’s or whatever he was like you guys are about white belts here and it was me and a group and I was like white belts I never thought of that you know so doing tournaments and competitions and stuff like that after it was a year like twelve thirteen months right Jimmy remember Jimmy Sanchez he was like hey come to class tomorrow and I was like I think no I can’t come tomorrow it was at 6:00 or whatever I work I work at night so I can’t come and he was like no no no come tomorrow come tomorrow you have to come tomorrow I don’t like but I can’t come tomorrow I don’t know how else to tell you like I can’t come tomorrow not trained to her he’s like no no we’re having promotions tomorrow so I’m like I’m thinking I’m not thinking belt promotions I don’t know about that yet so she’s like you still didn’t realize no had no idea and he he goes uh he said no we’re having promotions but I’m thinking you know how like promotions like a tap out is coming in to promote oh yeah it’s like a show that’s what I’m thinking so and everyone comes and it’s a fun thing I thought it was like a teen thing or something now I’m like that’s cool and man if I didn’t work that’d be cool and I would Iike they say problem it’s like what I got it – I think you’re getting he goes you’re getting promoted tomorrow – blue belt I was like huh blue belt because I never worry before I was on no G so he’s just didn’t dawn on me so like okay now it’s only after like 13 months or whatever so let’s just focus on training and learning cool new moves and oh my gosh we can do this now and all that you know and getting better and that’s what I was focused on learning and stuff then I got a blue B I was like cool but still noogie I was competing so it’s like the belt never really I’m just I just want to win I just want to get better and we cuz if I don’t win I lose tournaments and in that that part sucks doesn’t matter what don’t plus a noogie like I said it’s it’s not belt-driven it’s you know time so and then I got purple belt like another year like super fast and it was like a surprise it was like alius was there Joel Tudor was there he was like rolling and I did a little bit of ghee at this time and I was we’re doing G and then aleeah’s just busts out a purple belt and he’s like giving it to me or whatever and I was like huh this is pretty kind of surprising and kind of crazy but I started to do more Yi and then I got hurt like at the end of purple belt and and you know people were starting to look at me like hey when are you getting get your brown belt and started getting introduced to me so that my mindset kind of started to shift then I stopped competing – so now like just competing to win wasn’t really part of it it was it was all about walking in

the training room or this corrupt in the moment into my mind so walk in the training room you know I’m a purple belt but I’ve been a pro belt for a while so like I want to be a brown belt well I’m better than that guy you know like I tapped that guy out I should be I should be wearing the brown belt standing up front a little bit more you know it’s that starts to creep in meanwhile all the stuff that got Gotti there you know like focusing on like learning new moves getting better at your moves and being effective or whatever that is like sort of secondary you know you kind of focus like all my instructors here now let me um I better not get caught I better not experiment I better like Shawn I’m good you know it’s like that and it jams you up so and then that’s not to mention the frustration when it doesn’t happen day after day week after week and don’t let there be a promotion and you not get promoted harsh man harsh luckily that never happened to me but like I seen people like behave in ways that you should never be even just used to after that happens to him you know the kind like a promotion goes on and promoted and they don’t you know so anyway but I so I can imagine the feeling right and then it and jemmye up I felt like my learning just didn’t like a plateaued like pretty hardcore what year is this this is like end of purple belt which what year is that I got from my brother militant 12 2012 okay so there is that um and then you know after you kind of get promoted then everything starts to come into perspective you know like man I shouldn’t waste my time thinking like that all this up but you’re kind of easy now that you have the brown belt that you wanted the whole time kind of thing right so you kind of let it go and then especially because brown belt is kind of legit yeah I mean brown belt islets is legit yeah and you’re a complete you know yeah you’re you’re yeah it’s a real thing yeah it’s a I think you’re seriously in the game yes you have game yes like you can technically be a purple belt and really maybe not have that great I mean look there’s purple balls out there that are murderers for sure but you can you can be a purple bottle be like yeah you know and of course there’s cases where this is completely untrue but usually a brown belt is legit like a 90 I guess for every belt it goes up like a percentage of what the person was that what the how legit what the chances are that this person is totally is legit it has really good jiu-jitsu at brown belt there’s a really high probability that you’re legit and you have really good jiu-jitsu yeah that’s a good way of putting it where it’s like for every because it’s it always feels that way when you’re a white belt and you get promoted to blue belt um you’re like man that’s like that’s legit that’s a big huge deal and then when you promote the purple belt it’s so much of a bigger deal that it’s like oh my blue belt promotion was awesome but like nothing compared to this purple belt and then purple belt too Brown is almost like you’re becoming an adult kind of thing you know so it’s like way bigger it’s like cool purple belt but brown belt you know and then of course brown belt the black belts even bigger you know Plus is like a added little thing to the black belt but um so you know it’s easier to have clear thoughts on what an added little thing to the world being a black well yeah well you get to stand up front and so that’s the thing one thing is when you’re a black belt now the percentage of people that are that hat that don’t really have good jiu-jitsu that our black belt is very very small it’s very very small having a black belt in jujitsu means there’s a 99% chance that you are good at Jiu Jitsu yeah cuz there’s some people that whatever I don’t even know where they got the belts from or whatever because what I don’t want to do is just blanket say everyone that’s a black belt is awesome because that’s not true right yeah yeah but there’s a really good chance they even got some good do Jitsu a fear of black belt yeah fully and so anyway the foot so the point and then I never really ran into that at brown belt even though I was a brown belt for a long time like seven years I was a brown belt that was more because I had like career and I let myself like not focus on jiu-jitsu you know for a while then you know I got hurt again like all this all this stuff um you was always campaigning for you to get your black belt Oh Greg Train yeah my man yeah no he would and he’s your you’re the guy that he’d be like hey I was feeling good oh yeah yeah and you know that’s the classic that’s where my joke came from is when do you think he should get his black belt like I’m probably another six months and then he probably asked me that five times you know for two years for two years yeah maybe even longer he was it and then honestly part of it was you’d get hurt yeah you got you got hurt at some really bad timing to get hurt yeah meaning it was really close like okay we you know it was like okay we’re almost

an eye person was almost in the planning stages of like okay time to give him his black belt yeah and I probably reached that planning phase I might have reached that planning phase I don’t know have you been hurt three times there bit there old major injury was by at brown belt bicep my knee L was out for a while just probably my bicep going as far as her injuries go yeah okay so there’s probably two times in there where it was I was probably in the planning phase of okay we need to make this happen yeah and when you get hurt I’d be like 104 nothing happening now yeah you know it’s what I guess could be frustrating but I I didn’t feel it at the time when I was in that happened with purple belt as well cuz that day when I got hurt um aleeah’s told me hey you got it I was really into noogie noogie competition so I didn’t want to do the key part of it that was like an all-day competition they’d be in the day and then no get night and uh Ilyas was like hey do the key part of it and I was like no no that’s not where my goals the speech is like no no you should really do the key it’ll help your game all this stuff so like I’ve been like cool man I respect you and you’re the man but my goals don’t look you know giving him this sort of technical speech and he’s like it’s kind of like how Jamie did me a long time ago he’s like bro do the key cuz this geek competition is your brown belt test straight up told me cuz you want to do something like cool one I won the purple got hurt in the noogie no purple years and years and years ago by no provel so same deal man like right before that was he told you brown belt or purple belt I was a purple well that was that meant that geek competition yeah yeah he didn’t say if I want you just said that’s your test for to get your Brown to get brown bow yeah just changed it to a purple belt what do you were you retold the story so yeah got it yeah so that was the test and you had success no promotion yeah cuz I got hurt it’s all the same deal but it’s yeah it’s part of the game but in brown in brown belt even those longer time and you know what how that I’m thinking of it and I had to stop before you the the the the introduction and I guess it wasn’t an introduction but the introduction of you taking a little bit more like control over what belt I had like one word um I don’t know when exactly that was but there’s a time where I’m where I’m thinking in fact someone even told me maybe told someone who eventually told me that like oh yeah they’re gonna Proactiv brown belt but jock was standing in the way like jock who won’t let it happen like the kind Dean was said like okay and duck was like no that’s what someone told me I’m like a little bit of a little bit of I mean the bottom line is we we have a pretty actually someone did tell me that exactly and I know it doesn’t matter pretty pretty democratic promotional system here because we have so many black belts everybody knows different sides of people’s games so generally there’ll be like a hey what do you think I mean for the lower belts it’s sort of you know the individual black belt instructor be like hey I promoted this guy this guy but when it comes to black belt there’s gonna be some consensus yeah now I will say I am probably the biggest hurdle yeah when it comes to black belt right because this is a big deal so I’m not over here throwing out black belts on Greenville and going up yep good to go so yeah I mean there were some times I don’t you know whether I was the only guy standing in the way and part of it is just the whole dynamics of the situation which is you know someone throws it out there not like hey I think but someone being like hey you think Echo’s ready my standard answer is gonna be back no it’s not ready probably yeah probably like six months right probably pretty standard answer whether that was you or whoever so yeah there’s probably some facts to me being the world roadblock yeah but not because not because I was like I don’t want to give echo his black belt that wasn’t it at all it’s like I want echo to be to deserve his black belt Yeah right that’s what I always felt too and I was ready yeah we’ll put simply you had a specific standard that wasn’t a that was not a flimsy standard that was like for the real deal and I saw I figured that and with varying levels and mixed emotions about that because you know the immature side of me is like like man just just let it go bro you know like wait you gotta be such a hard-ass all the time kind of attitude and then the other side is like man it’s almost like logical where man who would you rather be like a medium or not so good black belt or like the best brown belt like who would you vote as far as that kind of thinking goes innocently man I’d rather be the good brown belt really you know cuz you’re rolling a row with your buddy like everyone knows the black belt is

not that good you know you don’t want to be that guy it’s free if you think if you’re thinking like that you know so it’s like you know I get it I make sense and then of course if you can get to the maturity level to think well when it if it does happen I’m gonna be so happy that it happened the way if you can get there then it’s like okay that’ll make you feel better too and that’s again if you’re even focusing on that that belt situation so when I even thought about it and when I’d hear all this stuff that like yeah like these people want to like promote you but then Jaco like doesn’t you know kind of thing then I’d be then that when I think about it be like I think to myself yet I’d basically have to tap Joc around like not even wants to like the kind like I’d have to i’d have to tap him out a few times for him to like consider giving that’s what I just figured you just kinda got to that place yeah mine yeah so that was it and then so it’s in a way it’s easy to get or it made it easier for me to not even focus on it anymore it’s kind of like did you talk about chocolate oh you know okay then let’s move on kind of thing in your own mind you know but let’s say let’s say I did tap you out though that would throw me right back into the downward spiral focusing on belt so that’s the kind of the back so eventually I came to the conclusion this is probably like leading not like the months or year maybe leading up to it it’s like chuckle might give me a black belt when he’s on his deathbed and we’re done with this life and or he’s done with this life hopefully I don’t die before him in here we you know boom I have a black belt and I real had that thought like whatever you know so you went from like okay he’s holding up for a little while – okay I gotta tap him out before he’s gonna give it to me okay so he’s just now I’m never gonna get in ever yeah and keep in mind I’m not thinking this every single day I’m saying when I did think about that or when people would be like oh you’re black belt or whether those are the thoughts that was going on you know I this was years ago I had a conversation with James Nielson about this because I forget who we were looking at promoting to black belt but I was like yeah you know maybe in like six months and then they were like you know James was like bro he’s good or she’s good and I was like yeah I’m like and I I think I said like hey that person has never even passed my guard before right you know it might have even been about you but I don’t think it was I think it was an earlier black belt I think it was maybe like Craig or someone in that group and James is like hey we’re much better than we were when we got our black belts which is so you know I got my black belt a long time ago right mm right before right so that’s like what 14 years ago so 14 years ago I I’ve had my black belt for 14 years so how much better I’ve done so much training I mean I’ve done more training as a black belt than I did without a black belt for sure and high-level training so you can’t think oh I can’t compare you because I don’t I mean but the same thing right if I held the standard of view of like well Echo’s never tapped me out so I’m never gave I’m giving this black belt when he taps them up that’s an unfair standard because I’m Way better than I was 14 years ago when I got my black belt so that’s not a fair standard so yeah that’s that’s that’s not a good but it’s not most apples though in that way because like there are certain people where it’s like like Andy for example he his skill rose so fast that away I mean did he has he ever tapped you out before he got his black belt I think he did I think he got me I think he got me like one time but I think it was like as a purple belt and it had no influence on a black belt okay um it just seemed like with Andy and whether this was the case sir I just seemed like this could be a possibility in this type of equation where they rise so fast and they get so good so fast um that it’s like bro like I have no choice but to give this guy a black pepper he’s straight up he’s tapping me out and I’ve been a black belt for 15 years you know it’s it’s kind of like that kind of the kind of attitude but yeah so it’s not like a apples apples to a street in their way I guess but but it’s true though yeah you’re a so I could I couldn’t be like oh well what I’m just gonna have to wait until I hope taps me out to get his back but cuz when is that going to happen right could it happen today sure it could happen today but you might not tap me for another two years right I mean like that’s that’s the reality of the situation you might tap me out tonight right I make a mistake you get a good move it can happen but it might take a long time I mean there’s people that have never tapped me out and you know it

just happens he’s like this doesn’t mean that they’re not worthy of you know exactly doesn’t matter doesn’t mean that so it’s one of those things where I had to kind of recognize that you know we’re better now than we were then but to counter that argument everyone’s better now than we were then so probably a good purple belt right now would be able to beat me as a black belt 14 years ago right a modern purple though yeah a modern perf like do you watch the worlds did you I mean you watch the kids at the worlds the the the purple belts out the worlds are savages yes right when you compare them especially to a a black belt from 14 years ago 14 years ago is a long time ago the game has evolved a lot but so you were not expecting at all when we were able to do that you know I know so what I did was I read it ran it because you weren’t ready and I was like okay you know that goes that goes good to go you should be having as black but I will watch you roll that’s another thing I were to evaluate is how you roll with other people not just with me cuz that’s not fair either right because how does your game match up with me nothing about the best way you know and I would watch you roll with someone that’s good with me and I’m like you’re doing better against that person so I you know it’s the same thing with everyone like you’ve watched them rolling you gotta you know you should you’re killing this person or you’re killing that person even though you’re not killing me that person’s given me a hard time so therefore it’s just your game doesn’t match well with with me which doesn’t mean that you’re not ready it just means it’s a bad matchup yeah that’s yeah it’s not linear like that for sure so yeah so it was awesome to have that go down I know it was a long haul when to making stuff easy no sir around looks okay so what’s the future hold for Echo Charles at this time up man for what for jujitsu the same I think I feel like it’s like so did it and thinking back on it and I kind of had these feelings even kind of coming up for 14 years where white belt you just like I taught your life toddler kindergarten you know kind of you know and then you get through blue belt and purple belt you’re like you know elementary intermediate high high school and then brown belt is kind of like college you know you sort of feel like you’re an adult and you’re in there you can do some good things you know have an impact on the world in college talk about in college um and then but you just learn it’s you should be learning in there and then then you get black belt it’s like you graduated from college now you got to go function in the real world now you know so it’s like man in a way people say oh you just who just begins at black belt and yeah in that way it totally does and that’s not to mention all the little superficial things that kind of come good and bad by the way they come with it like when you when you’re a black belt okay so if you’re not a black belt and you tap out a black belt that’s a that’s a good feeling you know it’s like one of those little things in your mind that you’re like I tapped out a black belt before you know kind of thing so now you have that kind of target on your back if you want to put it that way you’re gonna give other people that good feeling yes you’re a target for that so people you can tell people’s attitude when they roll with you is little bit different oh well it might be an illusion but I feel like it’s different like physically and then um that’s not to mention like you know the stuff that maybe the other black belts might have like whose black belt like me I don’t know if it’s them expecting me to like I’m a black belt now so I’m gonna put it on you or what but every once in LA feel a little something like oh you you seem like this role means a little bit more now than it does before it’s like I get that feeling sometimes I’m not all the time but there’s that but yeah like how we’re talking yesterday or whatever it’s like it doesn’t really change anything you know like just goes my belt half happens to be a different color it’s like you’re as good as you are you know it doesn’t make your digital game it does not write the future yet no I just keep training you know I guess I mean there’s in most ways I feel like the pressure is sort of off and more so than it’s off it’s more like I don’t I’m not susceptible to that that wacky way of thinking like oh you promote it oh did I did did I perform well so Dean and Jocko saw you know the pressure that I feel which is a good pressure is like you when you’re a black belt man you got to maintain yeah yeah you gotta maintain you gotta train you got to maintain you don’t wanna be rolling you don’t want to put a black belt on and not represent not have the skills manhunt you present so and look it doesn’t you’re gonna win every time like there’s people that are training more than you and you’re doing stuff and it’s like yeah but you should have black belt level skills yeah period in the story yeah period end of story

and I think that that makes it in I guess it depends on what you mean but I I think that makes it easier for you like how you say it’s good pressure it’s like it it’s not even price it’s more of like a it’s like it’s like a cool little push you know like it’s almost like I’m like you know these celebrities or whatever like an actor or something right when he has to play Wolverine so he has to work out you know it’s like right you got to be Wolverine on this movie so work out okay of course you know kind of thing rather than let’s say you didn’t have the movie but you still got to work out it’s you know it’s kind of different so yeah like training more in maintaining kind of the you know the standard or whatever and I feel like it’s like easier Akbar yes Akbar yeah for those either don’t know if Bart uses awesome fighter and crazy Jiu Jitsu he was in he was you know he fought in the UFC never really you know he never performed to the level of his capability unfortunately you know he you know he’s just incredibly skilled and he just didn’t put it together right you know circumstances things happened you know his opponents did things that were good you know it’s like that’s the way it is but he did pretty good in the 800 had some pita oh yeah he’s but anyways he’s awesome to train with but like I always had a rule with him and we had a rule with each other if it’s you want if you want to train we’re gonna train like so there’s no because both of us kind of know it’s gonna be a it’s gonna be a crushing roll it’s gonna be it’s gonna be gnarly and you know what we had though we had the rule at first it was an unwritten rule and then one day I just said I was like hey no matter what do you want a wall we’re rolling it and he’s like hey if you wanna roll we’re rolling yeah so he but he just he said came started training again yeah there was a savage yeah freaking hard work when he rolls he rolls oh yeah he’s going for it you know he’s gonna bring it you know yeah he’s gonna bring it and videos you’re gonna start making some more videos yeah videos hard because like especially now that videos are I don’t even know if I told you this fully but like videos are so common now yeah that like back when I made the victory videos it was like yeah you already learned ahead of your time wait that’s the thing and looking at them now you’re like oh ho that’s part kind of cheesy kind of funny not fun they’re like cool but it’s like you know you should post those on the darker podcast Channel so people can watch them yeah okay um but watching those videos now like those videos would not make a mark right now no no no just say another one because they’re good or not good at nothing like I’m just saying like videos are they’re just so much everywhere so it starts to become like a wash of just many many millions of videos so granted sure like there’s you and you know are all our people they they watch our videos regardless of what they are whatever I mean not regardless but um like we do have an advantage as far as eyeballs as far as videos or people caring about the videos okay to me the the ocean of videos like it’s hard to get people to care about videos so you kind of got to be selective I think so if I put like a bunch of videos out I don’t want people to are people to be like oh cool and sort of get bored with them you know so it’s like you want to leave a mark yeah so I mean it caused me to be a little bit apprehensive with like just flooding you know the place Vidya the cool thing is there’s people making all kinds of videos anyways with us in them yeah so yeah they’re out there yeah but yeah you know no no it’s weird it’s right but keep in mind too though I’m like the opposite of you in this way where I’m like like way more like hesitant like I’m also worried about that you know probably to the point where I shouldn’t be worried about that quite yet well yeah we’ll make some videos up at that cool you know DEFCON awesome for anything else man thank you for giving us your history Jimin actually seems like a good place to wrap it up people been asking for a while for some more echo Charles they got it they can’t kind of get it on the grounded podcast to the other podcast that we have yeah yeah a little bit it’s some yeah you uh yeah it’s a little bit more representing in I don’t know sometimes in the support part it’s all of this podcast yeah yeah it’s like a representative of kind of back like you know okay if we’re done training or something right and well I don’t know me or Greg or somebody brings some something up like some subjects and topics a question for you or each other whatever and you start talking about it and then I start talking about it and you’re talking trash to me like you’re you know like all just that whole thing or whatever um it’s a little more casual Kosan yeah the grounded kind is more

skewed like in that regard well check well speaking of conversations I’m gonna be having some live conversations with people now you’re gonna come to some of the shows I’m not sure why which ones but we’re even though as people have pointed out I told everyone that you know Ashla in front is not a rock band we’re not going on tour yeah well I am going it’s not actual on front just me and I am going to multiple cities so I guess that does make it a tour live gigs January 6th in DC January 11th in Austin which was the first one that sold out January 16th in New York January 20th and LA January 27th in Seattle in January 28th in SF so at those gigs if you’re wondering what I am going to do I am going to talk I’m gonna dive into some subjects I am going to do some QA from the crowd live which is enjoyable for me and I’m just going to go deep on some subjects the only I’ve only done one live event from that that would be closest and that was the live podcast that we did in New York City number 160 and this isn’t gonna be a podcast and that I’m not gonna well we might turn these into podcasts we might take a compilation of some of the questions or take a compilation of some of the things that I cover and make them into a podcast but not all of it will be in a podcast and I don’t the reason that I didn’t want to do a podcast is I don’t want to put any framework around this I want to be able to really just go and get after it with no no framework and just be able to get after it hard and that I know let’s I have no real of the way of saying it that’s what I want to do is I want to go hard on these on these events and with no framework and and make it happen so that’s what I’m doing go to Chaco if you want to come to those and echo firt sorry so you’ve been talking today about kind of some of the things that you’ve done to improve your life get yourself will say on a tighter a tighter sort of span of the path sure and there’s good ways to do this you know life and not to mention you can do that while you’re supporting this podcast yeah if you want to it’s true you can support yourself for sure we’re highly recommended yes you can support the podcast too if you want to up to you because this podcast doesn’t start off with 12 minutes of advertisements and will not beholden to our sponsors because that’s because we’re not we don’t we don’t actually have sponsors and you can press stop right now could you know what we’re gonna talk about staying on the path representing while we’re on the path tips in I don’t see tricks cuz no trick no trick we’ll see guidelines to maybe help you along the way mm-hm help everyone along the way help you your husband or wife kids everything the whole gig I like it first thing you do Jiu Jitsu talked about it a little bit today a little bit a life-changing activity by the way you ever think about who you’d be without if you didn’t did you just I would I’ve told you this I’ve told everyone this because I’ve been at on this podcast and I have the thread that connected things for me was jiu-jitsu now what’s interesting is you did you Jitsu you didn’t have the other pieces did you had you didn’t have the other pieces but you just you allowed once you saw the other pieces is like oh if there’s the thread there’s how these things connect for me I had the other pieces no jiu-jitsu no connection gotcha Jitsu got connection you were the opposite had jiu-jitsu no other pieces oh cool God got the other pieces now as yeah interesting so so we want to do jiu-jitsu we do without jiu-jitsu jaco ceases to exist ceases to exist do you know that in a seal platoon there’s a pecking order that makes sense that pecking order straight up it’s based on like hey who’s gonna win in a fight that’s the way it it makes sense this way yes and and you know what that is not only in SEO platoon there’s just like that underlying current so what’s

nice is if you know jiu-jitsu you’re gonna move up in that pecking order a little bit that is how you put that into words that way I agree with that that’s true and it applies to a lot of situations that in a way I almost don’t even want to Sam but do we kind of already know you know that it that pecking order structure hierarchy or whatever that let’s just say it exists all right and yes you did to helps you in that I’m not saying that’s the main benefit what’s cool about a seal platoon the reason I can start by saying a seal platoon is because in a super tune that pecking order is not always theoretical so there’s times you get some van fights right that’s gonna happen there’s gonna be a van brawl and and all of a sudden the pecking order is revealed yeah and so you feel it but then when you get to see it you go yeah I was right there’s a little those little pecking order here yeah it has nothing to do with your rank yeah here’s what it is and so when you see it when you see it in the in the under current and the under beneath the surface when you kind of think it’s there and a seal platoon and then it gets revealed you’re like oh yeah it was there then you see it everywhere and you go oh yeah it’s over there – oh yeah it’s over there – you can just see it and it’s a real thing so why not elevate yourself Elleni yourself yeah on that little hierarchy a little bit with some jujitsu doesn’t mean you’re running around choking people out nope but you can you can if you so when you get to you need to get an origin this is the thing people are gonna hear that right there they can replay that and say you know someone’s gonna go oh yeah I see what this is this is like a macho bully thing right it’s like hey I’m sorry to break the news to you this is a reality yeah this is a reality yeah and that’s a good point we’re like yeah I think that when you think about it yeah I think that someone could come to could get almost like triggered I’m not gonna use the word triggered but someone could just get moved into thinking that but yeah whether that’s the case or not it’s like you can say that about anything you know like the thing I’m not sitting here saying hey I’m not sitting here saying oh well this is one it should be like or this is what this is uh this is how things have turned out or this is good or this is bad I’m not saying any of those things I’m just telling you what it is yeah factually actress is what it is well factually that applies to everything in life like okay you know you hey check this out just by the way you can be the best fighter in a seal platoon and everyone can hate you well I mean a good operator doesn’t anything well I’m just saying it’s there and it’s it’s one of the many little it’s one of the many things that are being judged yes one of them it’s one of the many things that are being judged it’s one of the many games that are being played it’s one of the many little hierarchies that are existing and so why not elevate yourself in that game that’s my question the reason that the reason to not elevate there are no good reasons to not elevate because when you elevate yourself in that game it actually will elevate you in other games in your life so train jiu-jitsu people yeah this isn’t by the way this isn’t 1995 when I started you Jitsu and you had you were lucky if there was a disc or somewhere around you this is America in 2020 and there are jujitsu schools everywhere or you can go online and you can go to youtube for free and watched YouTube get some of your friends to rolling on the carpet and you can learn some jiu-jitsu learn some you get to get yourself an orange inky you know cuz you’re gonna need 140 kids you know yeah it was funny because you know I don’t train ghee as much right so it’s been a while when we’re involved in the promotion of Andy Berke well to get his first first degree degree on his black on the black belt the black though yes you know I put back on the rift I came out with my rift on and I said when you put it on it’s not a completely different scenario that’s just going on so good I kind of felt and I’m I’m admitting this to you and whoever’s listening because we’re real close like that and I trust you guys a lot but I’m gonna admit this I felt a little bit elevated ly kind of better in a small way because of that yeah you you know you have to do Pete the the folks that made this key you have to give like legitimately say yes you elevated the game this is a game changer this is not normal yeah this isn’t like this isn’t like hey we took a sports car and we put racing stripes on it this isn’t like hey we took a sports car

and we put rims on it this is you’re driving a sports car I’m flying by you in a raptor and an f-22 Raptor yeah so yeah very very good so yeah I get it origen mancom that’s where you get them so you get a multitude of options oh by the way including rash guards when you do noogie which i think is important they’re both important right now preferring noogie well then again I don’t know I’m like I kind of want you know I saw you wait did you sweep Greg train yes yes because great trains hard to sweep yes you got that wrestling background yeah but you have tied up that hand a little bit weak ovary when they get yes we know that you go in phases right noogie but yeah so if you do know geek boom rash guards as well all available or they also have jeans speaking of elevating the game yes sir I’m gonna tell you right now get some origin genes and I will say this the lightweight jeans which are called Delta 68 mmm-hmm those are possibly the best leg coverings that exist and I have to call a cover because you can include all kinds of things in right we could be your kilt that covers your legs right we could be a wet suit bottom that could cover your legs you know we could be over there’s all kinds of things that can cover your legs so I’m I’m putting all leg covering all leg covering in the world just saying Delta 68 origin jeans are the best things you can cover your legs with the world has ever known okay this bolt I know because technically not to go too deep into it but whatever so technically you know when you talk about wet suit bottoms mm kilt all these other things those are like circumstantial like you know there’s for certain scenarios right like specially when you talk about what suits or space or something like this so you’re saying at the end of the day net net as they say oh I don’t really like the expression net but whatever net net meaning under the circumstances that you wear a wet suit bottom versus jeans under the circumstances you’d ever wear jeans were the light jeans best 100 percent across the board what I just said is what I meant overall in the world which this is 2020 and I’m saying of everything that’s been invented to put on your legs mmm this is the best thing that’s been invented Delta 68 now the the heavyweight jeans awesome – and they’re cut running that close second but my legs don’t get cold so I don’t need that little extra plus I live in Southern California yeah but that’s true Co but Delta 68 that’s the one yeah but heavyweight the the Rick they’re not heavyweight they’re just normal jeans they’re normal jeans and they’re awesome too but they’re in second place yeah man so I thought you know for Pete they’re in first place what the heavy weights yeah well he’s up in Maine so yeah he’s up in Maine he gets that a little bit Hughes in Southern California might have a different opinion yeah I’m gonna I’ll be it doesn’t matter to me because my legs don’t get cold so it’s not a factor so they’re you know something like so by the way if you knew that away all the stuffs made in America did I mention that though it’s like the little tiniest little tagline made in America actually the huge factor huge yeah all the building materials are made in America that’s how made in America this mean in America stuff is oh wait we’re gonna bring stuff in from other countries no no no we’re gonna grow it here American hands yeah breakdance American icon everything made in America so yeah also yeah joggers you know sweat stuff good stuff supplements though yes like I said import in supplements joint supplements you can have all the creatine a mega mass whatever in the world if your joints aren’t working you might as what you just spinning your wheels you’re not even spinning your wheels your wheels are locked and wheels are locked up like your elbow or like your shoulder ya know don’t allow that to happen get all that joint warfare krill oil get yourself some discipline go multiple choices you got up you got a pill right a little go pill you need that little you’re going into a meeting you’re getting ready to roll to JIT whatever you’re doing something that needs a little extra cognitive boost boom take one of those haters you get the going a can’t yeah why because it’s 2:40 4:00 in the afternoon you’re been up early it was leg day you were up late you’re feeling a little bit of a drag cool and crack that open and you’re on fire ready to destroy the world also milk protein additional protein in the form of a lovely dessert

yeah good there’s some chocolate chocolate peanut butter I think that heavily in the rotation heavily in the rotation somebody told me to mix strawberry and peanut butter have you done that was that you that told me to do that I have not done any butter but pretty butter and jelly sandwich yeah I’m gonna try it at some point no oh I think what I did was I had chocolate with yeah I don’t know I remember if I did those a long time ago and my mind’s not even on that right now I remember mixing a banana with the strawberry and I was something that’s gonna be good yeah either way it’s all good and you know some people they prefer just the vanilla my middle daughter is in college right now and she she sends me little videos or pictures sure and she’s and what why you know she sends me one that says literally a strawberry milkshake yeah so anyways that’s my daughter yeah and that’s and she’s she’s in college studying nutrition so what she’s studying yeah yeah stem so the world makes sense in weight stem yeah yeah that’s right take science you know that thing yes yam it cools in there yes I mean that nutrition so she’s giving me feedback it’s good and and you know it feedback she gives me she’s like surprised that the ingredients are good okay so good you really do and I’m like all telling ya yeah as if I didn’t make it yeah and she’s surprised that’s what your kids kids think you’re an idiot I’m like well thank you darling so very nice of you although jock white tea if you like deadlifting or if you don’t like deadlifting you probably don’t like deadlift because you get can deadlift that much yeah as soon as you can deadlift eight thousand pounds you like it more oh yeah big time take it from me but yeah certified organic too by the way so yeah get that all that or Jemaine calm also chocolate at the store it’s called Yakko story you can get jock white tea at this store too by the way but or should I say and their shirts if you want to represent this plain equals freedom good good is a dead one that one is late like down downs one that won’t ever go away you need that concept good mmm for the rest of your life some people have gotten tattoos that just say good and I understand 100% and just understand I dig it there’s a good news it was a good we also have hats truckers hats beaneasy knees hoodies good stuff there yeah make it so yeah if you want to represent while you’re on the path Jocko also subscribe if you haven’t already wants DJ and iTunes Google Play you know is it important to subscribe hey you know what um you be the judge whatever you like but I think it’s conducive to remaining on the path I think so just subscribe don’t click subscribe boom again that’s a good question is it a good idea to is it important to subscribe subscribe to the podcast so you it’s out don’t forget that we also have the grounded podcast and we also have the warrior kid podcast which there’s four new episodes right before Christmas we’re uploaded so check out the warrior kid podcast and you can also get some warrior kids soap from me young Aiden who’s making soap on his farm so that you can stay clean very nice hmm actually that’s good soap to which I haven’t mentioned in a while it’s not this decorative table piece no it’s functional it’s actual for real soap that you use you know it’s funny I watched my boy with it he’s pretty good branding from Haiti right we’re not mad at like really like he wraps them in these little burlap thing oh yeah oh yeah this came from a farm this a kid made this a kid that’s super squared away yeah looks kind of rough you know like well that’s the reason I said branding in a funny way is cuz people talk about hey we need to work on our branding yeah you know what his branding is doing his job yeah making the stuff that works and functionally is able but he’s able to produce you know that’s what it is and he gets it to you boom one shows up boom good job eight in keep it up mmm yes it is true yeah I use that that’s heavy in the rotation to both kinds Jocko and trooper so what’s the new the one that is coming out or the antibacterial yeah there’s one that’s coming out antibacterial antimicrobial microbe real microbial yeah micro feel it’s anti that yeah and and it’s got a really good name they say the name you did uh I’m trying to Blaine

keep me with it again killer soap you know way killer that’s it killer so kill yourself right yeah book it yes I’m killing microbes yeah we’re the healing fungus yep good at least making a hard environment for them to survive it yeah yeah difficult cuz killing it is would take like chemicals that I’m not sure young Aiden could put into a soap yeah yeah we’re not done with that we’re putting this on our skin so yes make this also YouTube we do have a YouTube channel official it’s good one video version some excerpts on their varying lengths we’ll just leave it at that and you know some enhanced excerpts every once in a while – it’s good it’s cool YouTube before them you know if that’s how you listen to the podcast or should I say watch it we do have a YouTube channel so yeah I would say subscribed now but then YouTube actually yeah you want to subscribe that seems like a good place to subscribe because then you have it in here what it does then he then YouTube’s kind of telling you a when a new podcast comes out or a new video comes out and B it kind of involves that whole algorithm so it’s showing you like oh this video here you’ll like this one right what you seem smart yeah because if you like the podcast maybe like some other thing that they figured out that other people are listening to right yeah not to mention ease of access as well if you’re like hey let me you know if you want to revisit one or someone told you about like a video excerpt it’s like easy you can kind of click on your little subscriptions or whatever rather than going through YouTube’s search let me see is that the one is that the one you know I’m saying something yeah just subscribe to youtube but if you really want to be in the game you get alerted a there’s that Bell thing you can click on click on the little Bell get alerted every time boom you really want to be alerted do that man psychological warfare another another opportunity to stay on the path because when you sometimes you go to the path a little bit you’re gonna think about slipping off the path you’re gonna think that those donuts are looking good no press play on your mp3 phone player which whichever and listen to me telling you why you do not want that donut why you want to go to the gym why you want to get up in the morning why you want to complete that product just a bunch of things that you can let slide don’t let it happen get psychological warfare for yourself if you need a visual representation check out flipside canvas dot-com for art there you go to hang on your wall run by my brother Dakota Meyer also have some books leadership strategy and tactics it’s coming out January 14th so if you haven’t ordered it you best order it now otherwise you’re going to be stained for life stick stigma stigmatized with a second dish and I’ll meet you and I’ll thank you but deep inside we’ll both know not just me if it was just me don’t worry about it right but you’re gonna feel it too you’re gonna know that you got yourself that second addition you’re gonna know that when you should have ordered you hesitated at the moment of truth don’t do it way the warrior kid series there’s three of them one two and three just awesome feedback from around the world on those books so if you know a kid you’re around kids you have kids get your kids get those kids get these kids get all kids this book don’t need it to your library I wish I had this case I wish I could give this book to every kid in the world right now I need your help make it happen this is this this book is just look it’s not even mine it’s not even my book it’s just everything I’ve learned from people throughout my whole life captured into this book so kids need it miking the Dragons for the littler kids that are better let’s face it when you’re a kid you’re scared the world is an imposing place you need to learn how to overcome those fears Mikey and the Dragons will teach you how teach your kids how to do that but basically teach you how to do it to pay attention the field manual discipline was for you freedom feel me I know it’s a new year this is the book you want to get someone for the new year January they already fell off their new with their new year’s resolutions get them the Field Manual discipline equals freedom Field Manual get some audio for yourself on iTunes Amazon music google play all their mp3 platforms get it there and then of course extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership that I wrote with my brother Lafe babban where you will learn the fundamental principles of leadership and then we also have a shell on front which is our leadership consulting company

where we solve problems through leadership if you want me or someone from the echelon front team to come and talk to your company to come and work with your company go to echelon front comm we also have EF online which is look leadership is a really complex there’s thing and yet it’s simple so how do you get information to people look some people can read that I get it some people can grasp information from reading but not everyone does sure you get everyone on your team get them extreme ownership get them the leadership strategy and tactics get them the dichotomy leadership that’s awesome some people aren’t going to absorb it that way and even if they do absorb that way they need repetition they need to see it again from a different angle they need to actually practice it go to EF when you get repetition you get to see different angles and you get to practice leadership situations Interactive EF if you want to come to a leadership event with us go to extreme ownership comm this is a leadership event we do we are doing it in 2020 we’re doing it in Orlando we’re doing it in Dallas and we’re doing it in Phoenix so if you want to come keep checking extremely ship comm for details there all of these events have sold out and these are gonna sell out too so get in on it early and last we have EF overwatch and EF Legion where we are taking we are taking leaders from every level of the military and placing them in to civilian companies so that they can use those leadership skills that they have they can they can learn the industry specifics when they show up that’s no factor military people are trainable but these are folks that understand the principles of extreme ownership and the dichotomy leadership in the laws of combat and they will help you and your company go to e F overwatch calm or EF Legion calm and then if you still want to hear more from echo Charles and me well we are available on the interwebs on Twitter on Instagram and on the echo is adequate Charles and I am at chocolate Lincoln once again thank you to echo Charles for pressing record but more important thank you for being humble and for having my back and supporting this podcast you do everything for the podcast except for the little part that I do so everything on the back side is awesome and I appreciate you covering all that so I can do my little piece up front and on top of that the podcast would not be possible without everyone that is listening supporting it so everyone that’s listening and spreading the words spreading the word about the podcast and telling your friends to listen and getting a deaf core t-shirt or an Origin key or a pair of Delta 68 jeans it’s all of you that make this podcast possible so thank you for your support and of course this podcast is also possibly because of the sacred freedom that we enjoy which is provided by the soldiers sailors airmen and marine who sacrifice their freedom and sometimes their lives for our freedom in our lives so thanks to all of you and to our police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and EMTs and dispatchers and correctional officers and Border Patrol and Secret Service and all first responders we are also here and able to do this podcast because of what you do so thanks to all of you for your service and to everyone else out there just remember that it is a hard path in jujitsu and in life and there are ups and downs and you will get injured and you will get beat down and you will get tested and those hard days will go on and on and on but if you impose discipline in your life if you play the long game and think strategic and if you stay on the path and keep moving forward you will end up achieving what you want

to achieve that will happen so put on that ghee step on to the maths of justice in jiu-jitsu and in life and keep getting after it and until next time this is echo Charles and Jocko