Jocko Podcast 191 w/ BTF Tony Eafrati: Sometimes You Just Gotta BTF Through

this is Jocko podcast number 191 with echo Charles and me Jacques are willing good evening echo good evening some nights I wake up drenched in sweat I have dreams and some people might call them nightmares but that would not be accurate because I’m not scared and I’m not anxious I’m actually amped and I’m ready and the dream is usually about some bad situation unfolding really quickly some operation gone the sideways and I’m in a building somewhere or in a bunker or under a ravine of some kind and the enemy is maneuvering then they’re bringing it and I’m with a small group a squad maybe six or eight guys and we’re low on ammo then I’m about out and one of the guys is hit and he’s hit bad and we can’t move and we can’t leave and this is it and the enemy is pressing closer and I’m prepping grenades and as I’m prepping grenades I got my head down because they’re laying down fire and the enemy is advancing and we’re killing some of them but others are getting through and the enemy fire increases and if I’m in a building I I hear the door open up and I can hear them entering the building and I do a quick assessment I got three grenades and I got a half a mag then I got my K bar then I’m ready to get it on and I pull the pin on one of the grenades and I roll it down the hallway toward the stairs and it explodes then I hear RPGs launch and one explodes a little distance away but then the next one explodes on the wall right near me and it knocks me out and then and then I come to and I check for my rifle and grabbing for my rifle but it’s not there and so I reached for my pistol but my pistols gone too and then I feel for the rest of my dear I feel for my knife I feel for grenades and there’s nothing there all my gear is gone I feel for wounds and there’s nothing and then I realized that I’m okay that I’m just sweating a lot that there’s no gear there’s no guns and I realized that I was asleep and that this was just a dream and now I’m laying there in a pool of sweat in my bed then I’m awake and I’m I’m actually mad because I left my boys hanging there in my dream and I’m also mad because I don’t get that final confrontation with the enemy and I’ll sit there and close my eyes and I’ll try and fall back asleep I’ll try to force myself back in there so I can finish the fight but I can’t force myself to fall back asleep so I lie there in bed and I start thinking about what I would have done I start thinking if there’s any mistakes that I made I start thinking about if how I could have defended that position where I would have maneuvered to how I could have maximized damaged to the enemy and then I think about the rest of the guys on the team and I think if I was in that situation who would I want with me and this was this was a common topic in the teams if you were in a desperate scenario with the odds stacked against you if it was time for the last stand for victory or death who would you want with you I have a list of those names those men a list of the guys I want with me in that most

critical of moments and when I think about that list there’s always one guy that comes to mind first the guy that I’ve seen perform on the battlefield not for an hour not for a day or not for a week but for months on end this guy would go out on a three day operation in 120 degree heat with two liters of water three cans of Copenhagen and twice as many bullets as anyone else and as soon as the mission was over he’d want to go back out again this is a guy that can lead and that can follow a guy that can plan and execute a guy that never put himself above the good of the mission or above the good of his teammates and I know without a shred of doubt that he would have rather himself be killed or wounded than watch me be killed or wounded he would step into the line of fire take a bullet or jump on a grenade to protect me or any of our brothers in arms’ that’s the guy I’m talking about and the other thing is I know what he’s thinking and he knows what I’m thinking there’s no need to even talk we were raised at the same team by the same people we don’t have to debate or discuss whether we should do this or do that we look at each other give a little nod and we know what we need to do so if I have to assault a beach or attack a bunker or storm the gates of hell I want my brother Tony efrati by my side btf Tony big tough frogman and that’s what he is through and through and that’s what he did for his entire career through eight overseas deployments he was one of the first guests I had on the podcasts podcast number 41 if you haven’t listened to that podcast stop and go back and listen to it but if you had live have listened to it well then here we go again with btf Tony Tony welcome back yeah let’s just deployments are ten ten ten deployments no but let’s just get back because I didn’t want you to get wounded cuz you so there’s such a monster that’s a carry you be a little better if like I go wanted I could put you in my cargo pod right yeah we’re good yeah BT EPS great big tougher I’m not big I’m not really tired wackadoo you know so last time you were on we kind of just jumped right into like going into the teams and everything and which men we skeptic skipped over a bunch of stuff like I mean not a bunch but I mean because like I know you’re gonna put it well how’d you grow up why cool up and then I so so you grew up you grew up in New England yeah New Hampshire and and did you play sports yeah I played hockey and baseball did they issue you a hockey stick when you were born in New Hampshire yeah it’s pretty much you get one in kindergarten and then then you play street hockey and you learn how to you know like rough up your buddies and then get your ass kicked and then you just keep playing did you play organized hockey oh yeah yeah I play rock hockey I played youth hockey all the way up till I was like 17 no kidding yep they lie all my life three years old till like 17 you kept all your teeth yeah pretty much I played a might squirts bantams and midgets there’s four categories wise yeah I played a lot of hockey and till I got a little bit older and then you know had to work yeah so schoolwork the one a lot of time for it and and I realized I wasn’t gonna be like wicked good so I just it was fun well yeah yeah yeah a chapter my life and that’s it but I still love hockey you’ll love it you know big fan and like when I was a kid we would play like out on lakes cuz I didn’t play organized hockey did that too yeah we would tape magazines to our shins crowd we didn’t have like the

actual new year so we just do that that way when you get whacked with a puck or a stick you’re not just doing now even the summers like people my age your age everybody knows what I’m talking about like Saturday morning when you’re little your mother would give you breakfast to get the hell out come back at lunch it’s not like I went in my room and went in my little computer Lee and have any of that so we went like we threw rocks at each other or play baseball in a field or yeah you see your mom would say come home for lunch my mom would just like say get out then the funny thing is what when when it was like oh it’s time to eat it’d be like oh cool I’m gonna get a Snickers bar and a can of coke yeah what we ate yeah that’s that’s what I that’s what we ate it wasn’t like when you need to watch your content yeah what the fuck is this glue like some stuff that floats around in the sky like I don’t know what that is no apparently people are allergic to it I don’t know you know I always knew about the peanuts and the shellfish and all that shit but not really you know you know it’s on the table eater that’s it don’t give a shit yeah I just uh the things ain’t even I’ll catch myself you know with my kids going you know you don’t want to drink that soda and I’m thinking about when I was a kid just that’s that’s all we drank we didn’t drink that first of all there’s no such thing as bottled water no no it that still that Connie drinks out of the tap yeah it’s it’s better than Avion or whatever the fuck it is no it’s like the best it’s like so good I felt like fill up right in the sink and it’s still the bass yeah so you played hockey and in what what when you went to high school did you guys have a hockey team in high school now the next the next town did but we didn’t have a high school team Dead youth hockey so then you read you know did you play anything and did you play any sports in high school just baseball just baseball yeah and then I I sucked at it but I played Little League played into my like junior high and I bet I sucked at baseball more than you which was a bummer gallon quart my dad was like a fanatic about baseball and I was out there going this is the most boring thing I’ve ever done in my whole life ever like yeah this is I could you know consider whatever seven years old but I like I still be in there I like it because now I watch baseball and I know I get the appeal now but what I’m saying is when I was seven year old African hyperactive youth and my dad’s like you know this is a great game and you got to understand the tactics in them and and the strategy behind what’s going on and you don’t care about anywhere because the funnest thing like the funnest sport that I remember playing that I’ve said oh this is cool was dodgeball that was his real Island yeah you’re like oh Hawk the balls at the other people that was funny it’s like highly active yeah so we played rec your rec league hockey though when I was a kid too and that was all on outdoor rinks that’s also wooden boards and be like ten boys here and they flood it and then like my uncle was the coach of one of the weeks and he was terrible like he didn’t even not escaped but and he had no idea of how to play hockey you just kill him weed up checking practice for an hour I just go out there and check each other like really you know I you know I didn’t like I mean I know how to play I know the rules I know and this is what we’re doing Mike all right and just go out there and kill each other yeah yeah you and I were talking about the fact that the hockey players are getting smaller again now yeah there was a there was I guess because this is distance I wouldn’t talk to the gulls the San Diego gulls and their coach was explaining to me cuz I said man the guys are smaller than I expected some of them yeah and he said I said I thought everyone was huge now and he said no cuz now what they figured out is these smaller faster quicker guys have a have an advantage that they can exploit the maneuverability just like on the battlefield you can exploit being able to maneuver and these smaller quicker guys can actually maneuver faster than the bigger lumbering guys now the there’s position for the bigger guys to get out of necks yeah that’s what their figure it out yeah that’s a different you know so if you were to go back in time you might be able to you might be able to hack it now yeah I I played sports but my real thing was like hunting and fishing or trapping you know I did all that shit so that that kind of took a higher step like that’s that was the press that’s what I liked priority for yeah I like being out in the woods hunting was your dad in the military yes my dad was in the army and 60s drop did mm-hmm he wasn’t in Vietnam went to Germany rooms a helicopter

mechanic kind of last in the army you know he’s over in Germany like the coolest guy ever yeah yeah coolest and richest guy ever right yes like drink beer and you know go to work everyday and and and did he talk to you about the military at all Wow what made you want to join the neat because did you join right out of high school yeah I enlisted when I was see six days after I turned seventeen dang so I was in delayed entry for you huh and then I wept six days after I turn eight what made you want to join the Navy because this is the thing this is the thing that I try to warn people about the Navy if you want to go in the Navy and be in the SEAL Teams that’s cool and everything if you don’t make it in the SEAL Teams your job is not gonna be that cool oh I mean unless you’re into that kind of thing because there’s some people that want to work with technology that’s cool you’ll be an IT men and then in the Navy or you want to work with engines and your beam engineman or you want to be a gun it’s like that’s cool if that’s what you want to do but those are industrial type jobs yeah they’re 95 they’re in what they’re industrial jobs they’re trades right in the army like if you don’t make it to Special Forces or you don’t make it to Rangers or in the Marine Corps if you’ll make the MARSOC you can still be an infantryman which means you’re still get to get napped or do the machine-gun thing which is pretty much what I think most people when they join the military I shouldn’t say most people if you’re even thinking about Special Operations then you want to you want to be using a machine gun well yeah I mean you want to have a machine gun and everyday life I mean we’re come in so handy the luminate a lot of it’s bringing a horse shit like hey you know wait in the trap and just get out excuse me down okay go it would be so much easier the real I mean it’s legal but you know so you but you what did you join the Navy to be or do you just be like I want to be I want to be a frogman but it took me a while it took me a couple years to go to Budds how did you know about this what year was this like 86 yeah I knew about the SEAL Teams I wanted to do it but that the thing that helped me the most was actually doing like two years in the fleet mm-hmm and yeah it’s two years that could have been a team guy but for me I wasn’t ready it wasn’t mature enough so I hadn’t I needed that structure and I learned how the Navy works and for all you people out there and all that I was stationed in the Philippines for two years it’s not like I was on a boat I was just drinking and you know just being a madman and of course the SEAL Teams were over there you know the West Coast guys might yeah I mean I might as well just do that that’s like the best so I think you listen they’re 17 years old and you get you get 18 stationed in Subic and Subic as a what Mindlin all homes are linemen car looks like shore duty you know but it’s like overseas duty there’s the bad insane there’s the battle did they give you did they give you any kind of like briefing as this 18 year old kid like okay you’re in the Philippines now this is what’s about yeah they just tell you cuz it’s all about there’s all kinds of hookers and that’s like the main thing back then was hookers and drinking there’s like 250 bars in like a city block and you know I made like $200 every two weeks and I always had money yeah cuz it was like we’d go to like hop happy hour or whatever in the morning like Saturday morning at like T’s tavern or whatever it was on Gordon Avenue and it was like nickel for a beer so I really like learned by polishing like drinking skills like the big time over there and course it’s a thousand degrees out and it’s just like so much fun yeah when I my first after two years you’re just like okay come on you actually you actually had enough of it well I wanted to get on with you know I got over you know I took my screen test got orders to buds and was a alright and back then now they got this big fucking pipeline and all this I flew in the Coronado on a Friday Sunday we had our class up party which is you shave your head there’s a keg of beer you get liquored up and then be idiots and then Monday morning your start is day one so you checked in on Friday shaved your head on Sunday okay one class stop on Monday that’s it yep here we go did you get rolled I got rolled in the second phase which nobody does I didn’t get hurt I just wouldn’t leave my slim buddy what happens my swim buddy I wouldn’t leave on a swim I’m like that tie on the cob yeah well you can’t leave your swim buddy right and so what do you do yeah

you fail yeah and you just take it in the shitter and then and then like the next why what you know next class like I was like me and bring the cheese man he’s dead now yeah we’re like the top three swim there’s my swim swim I failed to swim yeah began so I go they bring us to the first phase office and I’m standing there with my swim buddy and they’re like all right and they there was a you know ten or twelve or fifteen pairs failed to swim so they’re asking everyone like they’re calling us in the office the first phase office by the Bell so me and my swim buddy get called in we’re like number seven to get called in I couldn’t hear what everyone else was saying but I didn’t know what the hell was going on I was just like scared I wanted wanted to make it through this training so we go in there and so there’s something called guiding which is like the person that when you’re swimming in the open ocean you have to it’s basically steering but you call it guiding for some reason you know you guide so you make sure your swim in the right direction so they go you know YouTube next player get in here so we walk in I’m standing the attention is it what the hell happened to you too and my swim buddy points at me and goes Willing doesn’t know how to guide oh my god and I was like and the guy was a slow swimmer like that was the problem and he was that was the problem yeah yeah and so I’m standing there just going damn I just got it’s just got dining out for something I didn’t even do so I just kept my mouth shut and I was like I’ll do better right and then what they did was they split us up and they put us with good swimmers than the same thing like me meet my new swim buddy on the next swim came in like fifth or seventh or something I wasn’t gonna come in first or second cuz I know not enough that no cuz you got some of those fuckers in there that are swimming like 17 knots yeah I know yeah but this guy failed again you know and it was like oh maybe it wasn’t willing guiding yeah screwed you over but it was alright you know I just had to wait four weeks five weeks got back in and it was fine then then and then you you graduated buds were you good in the water when you showed up at buds oh yeah yeah did you grow up swimming in lakes now sure no it’s just something you got to do like like how many how many times was I in the woods with people in the teams we were from you know New York Jacksonville Florida or New York City or Chicago they’re like what the fuck what with man it’s dark like who would say that the dark is dark good night fuck when you think we’re gonna do like go you know just lunch we’re gonna go on lunch and Beach and you know an owl so it’s that’s just one of those things you had to do there’s some people that don’t do that very well I know I had a guy in my class like a super stud wrestler from Iowa but he never went in the water man dude he was my swim buddy in uh in like the pool phase where they’re doing like the stuff in the pool with you yeah well yeah I feel like even stuff on your so we’re doing buddy breathing and this dude is taking the regulator and breathing 47 breasts in a row giving it back to me I’d take like a breath nab him still he still popped to the surface and yeah he didn’t make it he didn’t make it cuz he would just freak out in the water so yeah man I was lucky you know up in Maine as a little kid went in the water all the time the water never freaked me out I just don’t know why and people out man but that’s that’s the whole thing you have to be competent in the water mmm like when you’re underneath the ship and your D rigging and all that then everybody’s like right next to each other you just like chords floating around God people think like it’s all you watch the movies they go they say show them diving then all of a sudden they show them climbing this shit like well what about all the shit in between if you’re missing like the biggest fucking portion that’s horrible you’re under there is everywhere and the guy’s kicking you in the mask you gotta deal with that and it’s just it’s just fucking something that’s like sinking to the bottom yeah I get you down say why is the line there’s all this pressure going this way boy that wasn’t the plan we rehearsed this like 40 times you can’t communicate a beefy nothing it’s all just thing yeah and you’re just after a while it’s like survival like you just got to not die and then somehow it usually works out next thing you know you drop the surface and everything is easy then you got to go back so it’s not like it’s what makes the team’s good I think what makes the team’s good is when you have to deal with all that crap of whether it’s going over the beach just to do a land warfare up but you come over the beach or you know D rigging underwater or a combat swimmer op or rigging the boats or whatever when you add the water and it

just makes it it’s all a real world ah so much freaky no even in training it’s real world yeah because you can draw them down yeah you can I mean but the buds thing like yeah I didn’t grow up syrup and running of that stuff but the other things I I didn’t have a plan B yeah that was easy for me I never even thought about quitting anything no I mean it was like why there’s nothing else to do yeah I mean everything else is just garbage junk and like knew not know I have to do this this is what I have to do because it’s like the best yeah I I’d never thought about quitting at all and it was weird I think I in my class that was from the fleet and he was I bet you don’t want to court the fleet dude it’s you you’ve not want to go to the fleet and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah and he quit again yeah well yeah and I just was like man really we had these serial quitters that come back and come back and after a while you know give up like and what’s that the first you don’t succeed try try again how many tryin quit no sense to being a damn fool about it you know I just didn’t have a plan B you know mm-hm did uh did you do any of the water stuff when you were in Subic Bay did you did any of the team guys show you like not playing or any hole no not at all I did I did dive though I got my like okay there he goes god that’s good cuz diving like when you I’ve never done that but when you go through like the basic that do this do some kind of yeah you do like Carly breathing but it’s like the big yeah the big beautiful regular yeah okay then take your mask up and then blow through yeah okay clear your mask and but that’s definitely helpful but it was fun I mean it was something to do besides drinking all the time so I did that like one weekend and then there was like yeah how long it takes to get one of those qualifications yeah you go some classes some pool and then they take you in Subic like out to flip flop island oh it’s actually really nice man yeah yeah man when I got the little card remember you went through buds and you get water if they had this for you yeah they did yeah so I got looking a little card that said I was qualified like I could go rent diver yeah and I don’t know where that is I lost it yeah fucking but when I had that thing that thing I got that and I thought I was them kind of a man you know I was like you know what I would look at it from you know be my wallet look at it like you feel like you’re a Jesus kid yeah it’s like I felt like I was James Bond’s like who cares not even a thing anymore now not enough kind of like when I got issued my first floppy hat oh yeah I thought yeah well you arrived yeah I’m ready to go to no no no like that’s like you say less I make I thought I was going to be and I’m like that day yeah I know but yeah I still have my first floppy hat oh I’ll cost you two just keep everything I don’t I didn’t keep anything good you might need it one day I kept my floppy hat I don’t have a shadow boy I have a shadow box that someone made me like the good friends of mine who used to do that living like make coins made it for me it’s part of it it’s like in my room somewhere it’s a not I don’t know where any of my metals are I just don’t care yeah I’m like just such a loser when it comes to that shit one time I was in my son’s room when he was like maybe 7 or 8 no he’s probably 9 or 10 years old and I’m like looking for something I figured he took it and I’m walking around who stole my yeah step on something it’s like sharp but I’m like lot it’s underneath a pile of my kids clothes like I pull it out and it’s like a bunch of a bunch of my metals I don’t recommend we’re not cool whatever yeah lathe Leafs like they’ve said to me man we never got you anything for tea you Boosh I’m gonna get you something he’s been saying that for like 10 years I think he’s busy yeah yeah so that’s why I don’t have him of any kind of nothing the guys when I retired gave me a big giant Trident that’s like like seven feet tall oh really yeah I was have it in the corner with all my weightlifting bars I have it in there oh yeah yeah everyone’s well if I I feel like if I if someone breaks into my house and I wound them I’m gonna finish them off with that show well yeah I would get it and just run it put one of those things right through their neck that yeah it’d be good it could also spear him know like through the midsection yeah and then like get Thor you know and then you both

can like be a good picture all right so you get done with buds no factor whatever you show up at team one and did you get put into a platoon immediately yeah and it’s now what 1989-1990 yeah so is the gulf war on the horizon yet or not Nelly so Kuwait has not been invaded yet or it has been invaded we’re not sure we’re gonna that happened August 6th and when did you get to the team like December okay so it took about nine months so you showed up at the team there’s no war going on but I had to go through SBI okay didn’t have sqt back yeah that’s yeah I still basic in doc and they just grabbed a bunch of guys and it was actually really squared away at team one yeah creating clan warfare you did demo all your weapons and shit patrolling tactics we did maritime air you know rubber ducks limp ducks all that shit there he did photo Intel like all kinds of stuff in field developing yeah yeah I’ll just talk to this camera guy up in Wyoming’s I told him I used to do that Wow but now it’s all like digital campaign to do any of those like yeah of course spend hours and hours doing that and then a lot of shooting basic shooting you know shot m14 til your friggin fingers go cuz you were not a man if you didn’t carry an m14 well yeah because it was like the best gun ever my bicep would get bruised from shooting the m14 I am cuz and I know people say well because it would like move like you can’t just keep it there the whole time now it’s like gigantic and that’s why the m14 god bless his soul such a great weapon remember how many malfunctions you had with it yes I am a nun yeah ever and actually I had one somebody else’s shell from an EM from an m16 went and like went lodged somehow into my ejector port well yeah in the middle of whatever yeah it could happen yeah so that’s one yeah but yeah those things are freaking but accurate they didn’t they didn’t survive the how do I put it the rail system yes once once everything started becoming attachments and shit they tried to do it and then the gun was like 360 pounds yeah so it just it never really but back then the m16 was basically a piece of shit yeah even the NR 727 the carpet Dean’s that whole evolution leading up to the m4 they got better and better and better they are reliable and you know it just makes sense on the battlefield if you you got an m4 you got a you know five by six you work with the Marines the army you can always go anywhere and get some more ammo say who has strip clip friggin 308 a.m. you know seven six to nobody you know do you ink it up the 60 that got to be a wicked pain in the ass was a great gun I mean I still love the thing you put that front sight on there mister and yeah but as far as the night-vision it didn’t make the cut just yeah my take about it you know yeah I still have one that’s still like my primary battle rifle I looks great always gonna work a hundred percent it’s gonna work I mean if shit goes down chaos in the streets and you’re like on a cul-de-sac you could come out with that I mean I have a fucking tommy gun is what I’d have my fedora are on your ball you’re black and everybody but now you fantasize about stuff you know I mean it’s just a it’s a Tuesday afternoon what are you gonna do I mean yeah tommy gun fedora hat man I mean come on hey you want to go to the bar and get liquored up yeah yeah let me just grab my tommy gun real quick black yeah so SBI you go through you learn a bunch of stuff I had s TT is what they called it when I went through yeah and then good dudes teaching us that stuff that was great because you still get kind of treated like shit but you’re at you know you weren’t a new guy you weren’t a bud student you were yeah you were getting treated like a little bit better than the buds guy then did you get then you got assigned to offal – yes sir I got assigned to alpha platoon SEAL team one and so in the old days alphabets who met you were riding a boat yes so hard alpha alpha I didn’t care just no anything you’re just like wow yeah whatever I’m in tune cool how many new guys were in your first puts out we had a few we had like cuz I used to stack the art buttons with more new guys we

add I just wanted to fill that thing up because no one wanted to do an arc flow wow it you know new UI a manicure no no that’s what I’m saying so it’d be like okay so just let’s put all the new guys in there yeah and let them flow up but you get you had a badass LP oh I did I did I had a an LPO leanin petty officer who was one of my buds instructors what was he like as a buds instructor quiet and like mean-looking like kinda like if you don’t do this you’re just a big pussy you know you guys aren’t putting out and just just like because he was good at how does it he was wicked he was good in everything once he became my LP Oh like he was good at shooting he was good at all water stuff he grew up like somewhere in California and kayak he could kayak he was a really good skydiver yeah he was just good at everything everything mountaineering so respected yeah it’s freaking nice man yeah he’s a great guy I’m gonna actually see him here by the time this podcast is probably I’m gonna visit him somewhere in the country here and but he did I think 20 years after that as a state trooper damn yeah I think was Alaska and pre sure but he’s just he thrived in that environment and he was a good teacher like he’d take us and go okay guys here’s here’s I do this you’re like 80% correct yeah this is the 20% that you suck at and then here’s how to get better at it you know they Roger that I mean he was just and a good dude the reason I know him is cuz when he got back from that deployment he took over CQC or CQB yeah at team one he was the CQB instructor so he put me and my first work up through CQB and he was the first guy that I was looking at maybe not the first guy but he might have been he was the first guy I was looking at going he’s there’s a lot of going on here there’s a lot like yeah this isn’t just a mechanical thing of you’re going through in your clearing rooms like there’s there’s there’s thought happening here there’s there’s intentional decisions being made like I could see I could see that well the way he would explain things I’d be thinking okay he knows like some more a lot more than oh yeah then a lot of us other guys do yeah and he explains some little detail and you’d say oh and he would make sense to me you know I’d be thinking wow that makes for water Suns and yeah he’d say stuff like in you know room combat shit he’d say well why are you doing that like well we’re done here we’re gonna go there well what about deconfliction like what what do you mean well you’re not the only group within your group assaulting this building or the ship you make sure that the other guys are alright yeah now the first one actually exactly the kind of thing I’m talking about when the blinders come on in the teams everything’s like went from land warfare you know CQC whatever you want to call it no sky diving diving once the blinders come off and the good the good people in your life and the teams will make the blinders come off and then that’s when you start growing as a frogman because it’s easy just go okay ba ba you know but you have to you have to do the basic shit so well and never forget it but then open your mind up to what’s like shooting like front side front side front side then you get exposed to both eyes open mm-hmm and your front set is blurry because your targets clear because guess well when you’re shooting paper front sight front sight front sight that’s great but when you’re shooting people you have to make sure you can shoot them you have to look at their hands you can’t do that if the targets blurry right so when you transition I mean that really opens your eyes you do years and years of front sight and then you start opening your and because you have to and then it all goes away because you’re on nods and you got a laser and then you have to transition because you might be noon you may have to go assault this building I remember we were doing a shipboard movement on the pier side ship that we used to use at the time so we’re on that ship we’re doing just nasty gasps the seagull shit all over the place but we were doing we were like moving as we’d come up the stern of the ship and then just move as a big group a big screen like a big and he just asked a question you know like well what if someone’s you know shooting at you and and everyone was kind of stumped like the older guys

in my platoon were kind of you know we’d shoot back or just some dumb answer you know like oh yeah we would shoot back but meanwhile we all died because we’re all in the open on a rental ship yeah and then he taught us you know how to do the little bump yeah and and then I realized oh oh so there’s this isn’t uh this isn’t a recipe it’s not like it’s not like a recipe oh this is what you do every time yeah you can know if that’s that was probably the guy that made me start thinking oh there’s different ways to diiie is a guy who made me stuff yeah there’s different ways to do this there’s things that I need to actually think about and I can’t just I can’t just follow the the the the thing that you’ve been taught one time and that’s how you do it it’s like no you actually need to think and that was the first guy that I said that I started to realize there’s a lot more going on than I was aware of absolutely there’s a lot more oh a lot more yeah it’s not just I mean he would straight down at the range and shoot head plates at 50 yards like on timer you know with his pistol yeah beep ping yeah over while we were eating lunch he’s just down there and add that 45 yes wicked nice yeah when no one had like really nice weapons like that it was a good one so yeah so that’s an awesome LPO to have for your first time around damn your old running mate told me a story you guys were on a bus somewhere on like Liberty and some guy was running his mouth some fleet guy was running his mouth and making a bunch of noise he was all drunk and whatever getting crazy and all of a sudden your LPO just like put him in a chokehold and put him to see as like hey nobody just get a little nap in there you’d be all set and what’s crazy about that is no one knew what a choke hold no one knew what a sleeper hold was really he did yeah and he’s like knew how to do it yeah yeah I know that I wouldn’t be able to slip and then die was it yeah he was a bass man yeah still is he’s a great guy yeah freaking awesome anything else that he so what was that first Platoon like did you guys isn’t hepa tune the war kicked off while you’re in that planet yeah so august 1st through August 2nd of 1990 Saddam invaded Kuwait and everything buh-buh-bah so they sent platoons from the strand even though they had forward-deployed to tunes which guys were passed know every word and so we were on the ark platoon we didn’t leave till April and that like officially didn’t end but everything was done by the time we get there we didn’t do anything really the only the only like real thing I did in that platoon was like a ship boarding now the big 53 helicopters one went down or pulled off the ship killed everybody and we we dove on the bodies and put him up but I was with that guy and you know he was like yeah yeah here’s how we’ll do it totally cool but that was it we didn’t get any gunfights or nothing which is unfortunate it was like fuck you know so we’re on a ship most of the time and in the Middle East we got off we did training and summertime deployment if you left in April yeah so it was 1,000 degrees yeah I was terrible and then you know you can’t eat enough and all you did was like lift weights and and then wait to get back and then so you get back from that moment you’re rolling through right into your next book – yeah but I got that story about that first one oh I’m gonna work up talk about like attitude adjustments and stuff I kind of fucked up some infraction somewhere I I wasn’t late I just I didn’t have something ready I don’t know what it was but my chief at the time he’s like oh yeah okay yeah you fucked up and well Rodgers chief I I didn’t really know I fucked up I’m okay so it’s like 1,600 you know I don’t know if it was Friday no it was a weekday and he goes up to the grinder with me wait what’s he gonna do it punch me cuz that the team that’s kind of like a you know still the thing you know I wouldn’t go crying to HR or whatever that is we don’t have that it’s just like I can figure it out hit each other and be done with it and go back to work so he’s got this bags big construction garbage bag you know and it’s filled with a tangled up flutter board line huh Jesus so for those you don’t know a flutter board line is this without

getting into the whole hydrographic reconnaissance thing its parachute cord you know wine and it’s 500 yards worth and it’s tangled up like a motherfucker he goes I want this in the morning back on the flutter board geez which is like a big fishing reel yeah it’s gigantic cord without that big it’s bigger than like a gigantic pizza that you order that’s that that’s the diameter yeah whatever that is I don’t know so I go well this is perfect man I’ll just you know flake it out like a fishing line thence plight cut it and splice it and as he’s walking away goes I’ll know if you cut it and splice it I’m like fuck so you know I did that for a few minutes and realized man that’s gonna take all fucking night so I went to the country store I got like a six-pack of Budweiser actually got like a 12-pack and I’m sitting there and about 5 o’clock in the morning I finished it yeah and I had signed the flutter board and I put it all and I put it on the Chiefs desk and I sat in space you know with a couple of beers that kind of like passed out about 6 o’clock six fifteen chief comes in and he’s like hey oh my god heels smack me up but I go you bet all set chief he’s like Roger that good to go good to go we got shit to do let’s go PT Roger good lesson one man yeah I own take out some 550 cord like we’re in a half the life when it comes off the spool because it does that cardboard one n words to degrade their egos whoever made that thing is committed a war is just awful check so you come back from that deployment after being at sea and now you roll into your second platoon yeah did you get any schools when you came back no there’s a second they were already halfway through the workup so it was just like I did all the stuff but I didn’t have any time to do anything oh that’s right because the arc platoons were off cycle or off cycle so you’re gonna get tossed into some and you lucky then you got tossed about and that was already in their workup yeah yeah good platoon you know wasn’t much going on back then like 92 93 something when in 92 came back nine you deployed to the pie with that platoon our job were to Guam Guam had just started so that’s where you deployed to yeah it was like nothing there I know well a matter of fact it was right it was right in the middle we we they were just exiting so we couldn’t actually deploy there so we went to Guam there was nothing in Guam I was because my first deployment was to Guam and we would like the first guys to go to Guam a hundred percent like oh you are going to Guam yeah and the guys that had deployed to the PI before we were just moping around the bear like I said I was stationed there and then how was the workup standard workup yeah bunch of freaking humping around the desert yeah like the forward leading edge of battle we had some good guys in trade trading that understood more about war than I did that’s four days oh yeah yeah but it was you know there was not much to do reflect back on for a lot of guys I guys had to if the guys were dealing was Vietnam guys and now well my first Platoon my LP oh they were talking about he was in Grenada yeah that’s right with damn knack with Team six and then my second platoons chief was in Grenada two with team six so I had some redundancy in that like learning but some of it was like no no it Nick crazy though and that’s like cuz I had my platoon commander my second platoon was also in Grenada yeah and are you talk and everyone was you know that was sort of the and actually I had my LPO in my second platoon was in the first Gulf War and actually did yeah gotten some firefights and el-sissi yeah and so so those guys it was like David knew the unknown to us yeah you know and that was a that’s crazy that there was that little combat experience and the team’s back then you know military well you know the eighties yeah and now you gonna seal platoon every single literally every single unless you are a brand new guy every single guy’s

been on a combat deployment or seven you’re right or you know 50 or 50 or whatever yeah they’re just there’s tons of em that are numb to it they’re like we’re gonna do this deployment now that’s like we’re gonna go somewhere where there’s nothing going on there right yeah because we always used to have a saying like if you’re in a deployment and you’re totally at war that’s great but if you’re in a deployment we’re just drinking beer and working out and doing exercises drink beer work out do exercises do that for the boys who can’t do that yeah because guess what its gonna come full fuckin circle it always does you know but we’re fortunate we we had a I’m just fortunate like the timeframe I was born totally I mean from I know everything that happened in the eighties in the world and I went in the service and it was still old-school and then the y2k like actually let’s let’s you know I learned about the Industrial Revolution in school I mean really gives a fuck that the the technology revolution cellphones computers I mean it’s a it’s changed the world yeah not just the teams that everyday life yeah and I mean that was weird too because we got to see and 911 remember I mean we got to the teams there was no email of course not I mean there was no email there’s no computers no computers there’s no email so the copy machines really so my deployments my first deployment my platoon commander and the assistant platoon commander had each had a computer yeah and like no one knew what they were doing it cool fearless were you doing anything on it right it was just not me no there was no use for him whatsoever and then you know you fast forward I remember uh Microsoft Word or no wasn’t even Microsoft it was like some other word processing program and then people started doing what you’re talking about yeah printed gear list oh I had for me executions right and all that stuff I thought I was here’s a funny thing about that right like when I went in a training like after my seventh platoon they’re like oh yeah you’re gonna be the LPO of this platoon over up team five mm-hmm I’m fast-forward a little bit but no no no you’ve done enough you’re going into training like oh fuck so then it became trade at and I was like pine corner there yeah so I had to put all the land warfare stuff on PowerPoint you know and didn’t like do it right you know professional not just bad I never had one minute of formal computer training mm-hmm the Navy never gave me any I never asked I just I don’t know how to turn on the PC like I had no idea on the side yeah and then I I had to I taught myself how to do it and PowerPoint okay can you put PowerPoint on this the guy comes over and does it and then I’m like I asked a few questions and figured it out what do you do you gotta figure it out it’s like fucking terrible I had a lot of you know past midnight night starting at zero six just going you know and I could I could get up go to work do the two mile swim go run six miles whatever the fucking PT was throw my body I run through the house eight hundred times and go drink a thousand beers and go to bed at midnight sleep for hours and I’d be good to go eight-hour day on the computer I can barely make it home and am i kills me it’s terrible I don’t know how to one of these fuckers who sit in cubicles like blow the brains out after like ten years you know the business suit and they’re all i overweight and high blood pressure like I totally can see it that’s no way for a human being you you have to get out of the cubicle man oh my god I’m like head-butting the mirror that’s it yeah beating the team’s where you’re at a minimum you worked out in the morning and at lunchtime you’re gonna go like for a run on the beach somewhere you’re gonna go – or you’re gonna go freakin do rope climbs or something out lunch and and that’s just the way yeah like think about the fact that when you go when you’re in the team – you keep you work out every day every day like that’s just awesome right and if you’re not working out you’re doing everything we do in the teams is working out yeah yeah so wait okay well I’m not gonna beat you – you don’t gonna fuck your PT I’m climbing the ships all day yeah you know if that ain’t working I don’t know what the fuck is you know yeah yeah the sir you if you’re in one of those jobs where you are staring at a computer all day long or you’re sitting inside all time you got up you’ve got to get up and move why

absolutely so back to your second platoon or going what are we forward to your science second platoon yeah was there any major leadership lessons that you learned in your second flute and I didn’t really ask you that question about your first platoon when you because I imagine your LPO must have left such like not like a hey here’s four points on how to lead but you just watched that guy well I just yeah that made him that’s well the cat you’re talking about I don’t know how he was like you oh I see yeah we are talking about he’s like just do what that guy does dude i ne and you’re all set I I spent my whole career trying to emulate that guy yeah everything about him and I did a crappy job but I did the best I could the best I could you know but my second platoon I don’t know I we didn’t like there was no major like conflicts not even close – we did some exercises we had a good time tile in Australia gotten a lot of like fire fights and you know I mean we didn’t kind of went by yeah and I had a lot of fun and learned I learned I don’t know I improved on my my shooting skills in your second platoon myself tuned not a ton but a little bit and I’ll get more into that as we but was alright doing a platoon is that period of time period of platoons which I did one deployment to Guam in that time period but you could see what was happening and what was happening was it was a pretty cookie cutter thing like you’re gonna do your work up you’re gonna go under to Guam you’re gonna do some exercises you’re gonna come home and you’re gonna do that again that’s actually why I went and did a couple arcs because it seemed like different yeah they had a little better chance it seemed of doing something real and that’s why I did a couple arcs with a couple other guys but uh but yeah it seemed like it’s kind of cookie cutter hey you’re gonna do your work up you can do put in your learning stuff you’re getting better at it but that’s about it that is exactly about it and now that I look back at it some of the people who were in charge of me you know what are they oh I see Zell peels of cheese it hindsight’s 20/20 but they didn’t really do me any favors they didn’t have a lot of forward thinking and I hate to say it but Sullivan like wow let’s just get through this deployment and I get through it this is like my whole life like I don’t care if I ever go home you know this is what I do this is our profession you know and and I would hold some ammon animosity towards them they’re piss me off basically did it seem to you like it seemed to me well as we did from what you just said I think that there were some guys in the teams at that time period that worth not thinking at all that we were going to war and no no no no no no it was just not I want to do this so they could punch that ticket to make rank yeah but they were they were not thinking hey there’s a war on the horizon hey we need to be ready for combat we need to improve our skills there was definitely guys in the teams in the 90s that were just you know there were some great guys too obviously but there was plenty of guys that were hey yep we’re gonna go on this appointment this is what I have to do hey stay out of trouble all right yeah we gonna send a pretty extra training no no no we’ll just train if we don’t have to Train we won’t like well yeah because if you don’t make us train we’re gonna go train out in the Boz yeah I’m getting big fistfights and break chairs over people head and get in trouble which I don’t know why you get in trouble I still think like oh yeah okay Oh bar play yeah don’t do it again I never got anybody trouble for that like yeah cool no don’t no stick don’t be disrespectful to the cops but you know come on you want rock guys up on an island for six months yeah and then go oh you know go home and you know what no not we’re not jobs that’s what taxpayers pay us board if he wild and crazy so when all that happens were like right at all that’s what that’s what we do so that so that platoon you do you do it’s cookie cutter well and then your next book your next platoon after that were you the LPO I’m an expert after that you did another platoon well the second platoon I gave up the machine-gun now I did that wampa tune and then I became a point man okay that’s what kind of one I was one hey that kind of takes

the blinders off mm-hmm and I became a point man was I the best point man no was I the best at anything in the teams no ever in the history of ever nothing but I was decent point man I’d say it was average and I did that for the next five buttons unless I was in a leadership position oh I did my third Platoon was a point man wait your second platoon was appointment or second yeah okay so you gave up machine gun after your first Platoon yeah and now your second platoon point man third Platoon point man yeah which means you’re getting really good at the land nav yeah and we didn’t have GPS GPS and your pace count is on 7,000 yards in my head not a count or nothing just yep Roger mmm-hmm you know and I got real good I was pretty good at laying I’m anyway but when did you go to Sniper school my third put them so in your third Platoon work up you go to Sniper school which Sniper school was it an nsw sniper yeah at the time yeah I must have been in one of the early ones yeah it was not not the earliest one so it was squared away it was awesome and we did like a couple days of classes and then we went up to KO’ing to california and that’s when my shooting my long gun shooting just became insane oh yeah for silver so all right you know Sniper school you know where’s my cool sniper weapons no iron sight m14 for like two weeks straight at a thousand inches so after a while this is your group the size of a quarter twenty rounds this is your group and then you start shooting for distance calling wind still with iron sights iron sights art sighs finally they break you into the scope when they start teaching you how to you know mills how to range targets they didn’t have lately raid your laser rangefinders and so when you finally get all that stuff i mean you’re such a good shooter i got our sniper school and my platoon we did a pistol shoot me and my shooting buddy you know z they’re not z but that’s his initial zga we smoked everybody just because we could shoot mmm and they just go back from like rogers like yeah yeah but and that really really like i became a really good long gun shooter like awesome yeah i’ve been shooting archery and man the laser rangefinder they’re freaking crazy oh my god they’re the best they probably taken everything they’re crazy yeah I mean I bought one I’ll take almonds gonna buy one guy like he’s like I’m like which one’s the best one there this one and I was like okay cool it’s compensating for angle and just real quick I was two weeks ago two and a half weeks ago I was in ro range sir they call it but it’s a Range Safety Officer at the Wyoming ripe ripe old tactical championship up in Wyoming some of these rangefinders these guys that are like incredible and a shout out to them guys there are some of the best shooters I’ve ever seen in my life like in the world good with the competition it’s called the Wyoming wrt see Wyoming rifle tactical championship or or WT RC I can’t remember excuse me if I fuck it up that’s just who I am but it’s also a fundraiser for Special Operations wounded warriors some of the best people on the planet man awesome but some of the care was like holy fuck you know but I had this back in the day that it saved me like I don’t know seven hundred hours of horse shit in my life you know but yeah times but yeah I became a really good shot this rangefinder I have as a stabilizer on it to look oh so you’re not like shaking and the only thing it doesn’t do is like pull the trigger give you a blowjob and shoot the gun for you I mean it’s it’s like crazy yeah yeah so you cert so that’s when you went to Sniper school you did that that Sniper school was the NSW with the stalking and all hi yeah yeah I was hot it wasn’t easy it wasn’t easy at all how many people graduated that school I I can’t remember there was I was in like the like the top cat but I think we had a 10 mm maybe 15 man NSW came out of the gate hardcore on that school yeah yeah they did like that NSW Sniper school it’s loose yeah freaking legit yeah it’s not easy yeah but I like I loved it I mean I thought it was awesome so then

you go on deployment with that where’d you guys another qualm deployment yeah it wasn’t there’s another insignificant not that it wasn’t great and everything but it was no yeah yeah I mean that’s what people have to understand in the 90s it was like you’re going on deployment we’re on standby for whatever praying everyday that a major theater war would break out yeah yeah absolutely I mean just hoping but one thing we did do is we I’m sorry I got a backtrack one platoon we were in Australia working with the SAS and shooting the shit and we were we were doing some training or doing some shooting our guys were doing really well like shooting wise and of course with those cats who are awesome you’re like the best guys out there you know just like a bunch of special forces around the world their best guys ever like oh yeah you guys man you’re shooting the shit out of it mate and he goes wow it’s easy for you and I’m like the fuck you talking about you guys grow up playing freaking cowboys and army and and a mic and I never really thought of it he goes you know back then they’re like we don’t have guns here they like don’t have guns unless you’ve got a special permit to hunt or you’re joining the military or the cops we’re gonna grow up doing that damn you know I’m like I never thought of it you know that Christ BB gun Wars and your kids and your heart you know just throwing rocks yeah that’s have a rock fight what you know so anyone yeah you don’t think too much about the fact that many of the people that come into the teams or into in the military they grew up with a rifle oh yeah it’s comfortable around god yeah I mean I don’t see any reason to be afraid of a gun no unless you’re an idiot yeah and you should be afraid of it yeah because you can shoot yourself great but that and then my third Platoon we like so we didn’t I don’t seize did some stop yeah just you know like him but people don’t realize in them years when there was no Wars going on we did some like ridiculous training stuff no yeah okay we’re gonna do like this three miles swim and then put your gear on and hump you know walk like I don’t know here to Saskatchewan then and then you get a five-minute break and then you got to shoot like 17 rounds in 2 seconds and like really I mean how skinny do you want me to be you know I do like 5 mile swim like 10 mile run and 2 mile swim like dude it takes all day you know doing the Monster Mash is that Friday I mean they were fun yeah they were fun but yeah they’re and that’s the other thing is I have occasionally people asked me they say something along the lines of I was in the Marine Corps I was in the Army I was in the Navy during the 90s and didn’t do anything and I feel like I didn’t do a good job serving my country knows it look man he served because you did what your country needed you to do and when it when it was 1994 or 1996 and you and the SEAL Teams and the Navy needed you to deploy to wherever and you’d go do an exercise with some country like that’s what you did and and we trained and we did we did establish and maintain standard operating procedures so all these little things that we do you know like they came out they they somebody had to carry the thread of being able to do this stuff all right for during these time periods and that’s what that’s what we were doing you know making sure that this thread making sure that the knowledge at least at a minimum level stayed in place yeah and a lot of a lot of it it’s not even the tactics and stuff it’s the I don’t know and there’s still teams I think the world the word like phrase old school has to always be there it has to yeah like just BT app through everything that’s not an old-school thing just just that attitude like you got a at least every day and a seal platoon still true salt team whatever you’re talking about someone’s got to be like don’t be a fucking pussy just do it and shut the fuck up yeah because if it ain’t like that and the most exclusive man’s club ever then then with what do you got you got a you got nothing yeah there’s definitely you definitely have to maintain that attitude of hey we’re gonna do we’re gonna do we’re gonna we’re gonna get this done oh yeah that’s what we’re gonna do we’re gonna get this done and it’s like cool man this is gonna really suck yes things

that are gonna suck real bad cuz if you don’t do it even if you’re operating here in platoon or whatever you’re doing if you’re not doing a gut check like a serious gut check every two months or so something’s wrong mm-hmm it shouldn’t be easy no it shouldn’t it should be like fuck this gonna suck but then when you’re doing it it’s it sucks so bad it’s fun yeah cuz you what your chums you like yeah whatever it looks good no one no one ever says anything about it you just like yeah cuz you go cuz you think about some of these things that you do you get into you jump you jump into the ocean with a zodiac and then you get in the zodiac and you rig it and it’s freezing and you’re in a wetsuit that’s cold and now you drive from over the horizon so it’s 15 or 20 miles of driving in a zodiac against this well against the swells you’re getting beat up your ass is chafed you’re the guy next to yous puking and and what you’re doing is you’re getting to a harbor somewhere so you can then put on your do the real take your dive rig out of a kit bag yeah do a like a cursory check on your dive rig to see if it got damaged on the jump and then you put that thing on your freaking it’s all awkward huge and and then you roll into the water and then you’re underwater for three and a half hours next to some idiot who doesn’t know where he is and you’re freezing when you get in the water you’re freezing your hope nap you you’re actually happy when you get the water cuz then you know you’re gonna warm up in like two minutes cuz gonna be kicking and then you get done with that you come back out you’ve got you turn on a spy or strobe or a higher are strobe somebody’s a white stroke because no one’s out there no there’s no enemy gonna see you because you’re in the middle of the ocean yeah did you get picked up climb back in your totally exhausted you have one of those collapsible canteen like the to court a theme is in the bottom of your kit bag you pull that thing out you drink some of that I pull it out it got punctured yeah so I just like I just go I got nothing and then you’ve got to drive another 15 miles back over the horizon yeah and and about you have about seven miles left the Sun starts coming up yeah and then you get there and then you get loaded into some some LCU that was beating you out there so that’s the kind of Dalia like that’s just that just sucks man yeah yeah used to know all right so that’s your so your third Platoon your fourth platoon what about your fifth platoon my fourth no my fourth platoon I was LP oh there you go you’re a second class LP I’ll just think about that for those who don’t know what that means you’re the second class Petty Officer alive LPS are usually supposed to be first classes and now everyone in a platoon is like a first class right back in those days man no is III z4z 5s in it and then you’d have an LP oh but you were the LPO as an e5 yeah how was that I loved it you know my chief was a senior chief and uh God rest his soul my key ankle died TV is back but uh he was one of the they talked about a nice guy a super nice guy he was like so much fun he had that Texas drawl like from ah we think well do this shit Tony he’s just funny you know but we had a great platoon we again we didn’t we didn’t really do anything no made no were like being like actually in charge I loved it I loved it I had a pretty good oh I see and a oh I see and we worked together we didn’t I wasn’t I’m like this is how I think we should do it but you know let me know and there was a couple east sixes in the platoon – they were newer guys so they didn’t oh oh so you were to e5 LPO ranking bossing around or whatever in charge of guys that were senior to you on paper because they’d come salute or something like that and no big deal no big deal team guys team yeah we figured it out but once again we we did a lot of drinking and fighting and didn’t you knock out one of your guys or something yeah that’s just let’s just stop that happens when I put tuned I mean I got yelled at by the XO and I’m like yeah whatever like I don’t you know he was like don’t do that to my

guy okay but we didn’t we ran out in town the cops didn’t get involved or anything we just kind of like whatever I swept it on the table I was like in the office I got I’ll do it again right now and he’s like no no no no I don’t care but you know it was all right then I’ll have team one after that not cuz I had to but I transferred to SEAL Team 5 after that and at that time SEAL Team 5 seemed like a lot oh it seemed like it had a little less stringent oh my god it was the Wild West it was a it was 300 feet down the street and it was like going you know going to the Wild West and I’ll say this about team five-man at that time in the 90s they were full of characters I mean fucking characters yeah I show up recorders the first morning I mean my starch Kami’s with my haircut my you could shave in my jungle boots you know steam one and because that’s the right team or less yep the quarters is like 7:20 I’m standing there I’m the only guy on the grinder and it’s like seven sixteen and then the back gate opens it’s like coming out of the Drew Carey Show back in the eighties like guys aren’t skateboards nobody’s wearing a uniform give a fuck and they’re like hey what’s going on yeah Bob a pile what do we go through PT today I don’t know who cares just go run and I don’t know hit the gym like what the fuck is going on here everything was loose everybody was wicked cool so I’m like but then when I started working with everybody the square ons was there and the training department in the platoons they just proved that you don’t need to be like so Uniform Standards me that and still be good operator I mean those guys were the best I loved being at SEAL Team 5 I love being at all my teams but you know that was that was fun yeah there was a bunch of guys that migrated from team one down just oh absolutely so I got in a platoon there and it was another Arg so this was my fifth platoon and I did it hard but we had a great and did they make you the LPO oh no no I did three more platoons not being Yelp ill after the item yeah that’s kind of an interesting deal I kind of knew how to run still an e5 yeah so we did the Argan and we uh we went overseas again we did like some watch and Kuwait and they still had that thing where guys are doing is are or whatever but nothing major and we didn’t do anything but uh it sucked like goes on another art and I was like man this is this is fucked up I’m like I’m getting on the I I just reinvested I went over like ten years so I’m like okay I’m committed for twenty now you know you know he can only work out so much and you know we drink so much it’s getting stagnant but when I came back they had this that the cap the command advancement program so there’s 52 e fives at SEAL Team 5 and what they’ll do is they’ll just instead of taking a test they’ll just make you an e6 and you get paid right away it was a big it’s kind of a big thing so out of 52 e fives I was ranked number one so I got the cap so when TD was the CEO I walked in there and we were talking and it was between me and diamond god bless my brother diamond he died last year and I go fuck you you give it to Diamond he’s got a wife and kid I’ll get it next year or I won’t ever get it so diamond got it and I was like yeah and he bought the beer so what’s the difference so it was all good to go but I was like I don’t care about rank I never did so I did that and you know I thought it was cool that is that’s awesome what uh did you get cap the next year yes sir I did they used to tell me that I got capped my whole career cuz I did got capped it because I got captain five and then I got captain Singh now perfect right because you went in the program yeah yeah but that that aquatune we did we had a grape tune like one two three four of those guys if not with us anymore

and not one of them is from a combat thing hmm you know natural causes or self-inflicted you know but it was a good news a great tune we had a lot of fun we had a lot of terrible times but you know you have terrible times but they’re fun whenever fun man that just are having fun so that platoon my Opie oh I don’t know still in BH I don’t know he was awesome he he was great my I had two chiefs in neptune one like gave up or got fired or something and all this time I had chief said gave me some good advice like my third Platoon JH was the chief he was in buzz with me he was a higher rank mm-hmm so he had kind of a tough go at it when he got to the teams and but he turned out to be one of my best platoon geez he was smart particularly you know and he was cool too you know just he didn’t offer me a lot of advice tactically cuz we kind of grew up at the same time so it was you know we’re both same level but he was good with the Navy like he told me this and that taught me shit that I forgot but it was good to know you know but a lot of the examples I used as a platoon chief that I drew on were mostly bad I’d have to say you know 51% of them were what not to do and you were looking at him at the time saying no that’s not a good move are we looking at or did you figure out later that chief wasn’t doing a good thing I remember doing one thing we’re doing this crazy shit boring thing and I’m like yeah let’s do it again I can you know we’re not there yet we’re not good at it and my chief was like well yeah the confident guys are gonna say that my what the fuck what now all of a sudden there’s two groups like the confident the non-cut we’re fucking frogman what do you what do you mean on confident what is that okay I’m them that way when I look at a fucking computer or something but like in the team’s who’s not confident yeah like yeah okay I’m never gonna say that ever in the history of ever like ever ever yeah so then so then at what point did you go into training oh I still have a couple tunes to go here damn bro so your fifth platoon was the article tune yeah you step down from L where you you know not the LPO right so now you do your six platoon yeah and what are you doing to the sex between appointment again blame an error at point and airwrap yep and that was a spec ops deployment at Guam yep hammered it out get to work out Doug get a workup done yep land warfare CQC yep long humps in the desert yeah owari oh yeah big time by then I knew nylons so well like it was like yeah okay yeah I’m the point man I’m like yeah this is ridiculous I’m like hey you know what chief why don’t you just let me carry the machine gun he’s like why cuz what the machine gotta be the point man let’s mix it up mmm he’s like oh dude cool you know the guys like well that was another uneventful year and a half two years ago when did you make so then G what about your 7th platoon well I made each six in my 6th platoon to you so I was in East six in my seventh platoon but I was in the LPO again I was I was the Ordnance rep I went back to ordnance or a point man you just keep rolling yeah just keep rolling dead keep rolling yep and after that one another that was a heart Bravo though we actually oh yeah yeah but yeah we spent like 30 days on the ship uh-huh like Korea or something terrible I remember that because I watched the subway series on the ship back then when the Mets were playing in okay like right we ended in 2000 maybe 99 mm so you’re a first-class at this point yeah it then you get sent to trader I get sent to training sell at trading sell a team fun and after like couple of months you did your platoon LPO and then you did four more deployments yeah before I was a chief and then you then you got to sign a training cell yeah and they take training cell and they group it all together and to trade that right so I did like a year in trade training cell at five okay and then when I got orders to trade at most for three years I’m like wait a minute I

did a year in training like yeah we don’t give a shit Michael fuck so we stood up trade at and I was the LPO of land warfare the whole time I was there mm-hmm and during that I did get in another school though I went to New Zealand to the tracking course oh damn so I learned how to track humans over there I was it was a awesome like not easy course meant a lot of really good cats from around the world and had a lot of fun when did how long had you been a trade out when September 11th happened I’m not sure maybe six months six months and then what what did you just freak out come no I went to you Zeeland everybody else went to Afghanistan I went to New Zealand as I had along with that course seven weeks so you get done with that and now you’re freaking out well cosig am so i come back from that and alright what am i going well okay you’re gonna go you’re gonna go and then like I didn’t I just kept working at an island working working working and then when Iraq kicked off one of my old master Chiefs like I need a guy so he took me and sent me overseas and that’s when you were there yeah no Rach this is when yeah you relieved us right so we should we did like a little turnover when I was working with the poles yeah but we were working with the poles so right yeah so you came in to kind of take over the liaison right exactly as it was and then which was a good job huh it was great you must have been stoked so I was I was in Baghdad I was an al Asad I was in Mosul I was back and forth to Bahrain I really I was like the in theater guy if you wanted something done I mean I was walking through these foreign airports with couple bags full of machine guns and just going to like the Brits or whatever country had a plane ate their way we can’t do that way yeah here here’s a bottle of scotch I mean that’s how you got shit done and then all of a sudden I show up in like Basra and like okay I got to do this for a while and then I’d be like all right yeah I’m gonna go to Mosel get a flight there from bribing people with stop and no orders and you know you think it’s like will we get your orders and you wait for your plane now it wasn’t like that you just gotta fend for yourself and I loved it it was awesome then you did that phone and I made cheap on that deployment that’s when you made chief yeah I squeaked under the thing I had like 19 years and day or 18 and a half whatever and then when when did you find out you were gonna go to team three all right after I met you yep cuz uh the guy we were talking about calming his off cos I got you a platoon a team three I’m Roger that perfect were you ever worried you weren’t gonna make chief and you’d get no no you figured it would work out yeah it would always work out I would make it work out I’d strangle someone before I didn’t you know it would just it would just work out bodies would disappear whatever I don’t care no I I don’t take this and I’d be like all right here’s what’s gonna happen you know your signatures gonna be on there or your blood you know it’s one of the other it’s gonna fucking happen and that’s it not I’ve been not been doing this my whole life just like okay little retired go sit over the corner like ya know I’m not gonna do it and then so then you showed up a team three I show up a team three and there’s two asking a bruiser we talked about that on the we talked about in the last one but gotta reiterate that was so funny like who’s this will link guy in a Mike who Oh Jocko like no it says John will link Willie I’m like no I don’t really know I’m kind of no I’m and I’m walking away like don’t worry we’re good to go we’re all set we’re all set jump they like naba you know the officers like well what’s he like I’m like he’s good to go that’s all you need to know just stand the fuck by don’t have any fuckin me I don’t care I didn’t know you my whole life I’m a yeah whatever I don’t have any like loose ends and they’re just like now officers are they like I’m like what do you mean I mean no fucking loose ends because he’s gonna he’s like a shack in the water I could smell blood he’ll go oh really he can’t show up with a proper uniform and they’re just like

really what does he like uniform nazi or whatever you know and like no he’s just like do it right I can go I go here’s an idea if you do say hey what do you think about this Jocko to go he’d look at you ago well I thought about like doing it like good not like what you’re saying that’s just junk and they’re like yeah then you meet everybody yeah you know that was uh that was good buddy yeah that was a good time you could tell almost immediately like that we were gonna have a good time oh I know I know everyone was kind of there everyone was kind of in the game and yeah you could tell pretty quick we’re gonna have a good time and the very first thing we did was land warfare which is as it should be there’s a little bit of luck involved with training you get to do first but you know we got lucky you might fly or someone move the freakin things on the boards over a tray that to make us have land warfare first but we had land warfare firsts you know there’s a lot of guys team guys listen to podcasts away we should shit here and I gotta think that they’re like yeah we did this forest I remember if we did that Perot so like I remember everything like everything but not everything you know what I mean like if you say we might um that woods down there in Florida wrote a wrote a book he’s got a memory cuz I’m like how the fuck did you remember that and he’s like I used to write stuff down now I had a wheel book just like you did and I would write stuff down and I go back I still have them they make no sense Marco says it says I got grid coordinates then I got a leg line through it and it says other fucking grid and then roll over next day get get guns like what yeah would you have to write that down mine are like that too I have from when we were in Ramadi I have three like I forget what size they are but maybe maybe eight by six or something they fit in your cargo pocket right and I carried it all the time and so I’ve got all these little boxes with wards next to him and I can kinda remember what some one thing that’s cool is when I would sit through a mission brief I would write my notes down that I was gonna say to everyone so I have like mission you know 134 it says you know tell them the watch you know it says watch that road this building is a threat and don’t forget to check in with this ECP I don’t like this just like random stuff that was simple super at a time and super emphasize the rules of engagement yeah yeah of course I always did that I thought that was great yeah but so I have these kind of like random notes and what sucks is Lafe had the whole hard drive of every opt that we did and it was classified secret obviously and it was classified secret for no good reason but you know when we we had to turn it in and they took it and it’s destroyed or whatever but that had every op every planning I mean everything was on that and yeah that’s good the notebooks I have are like your notebooks it’s like some random grid coordinate some random execution checklist for lines and I’m like I’ll rearrange this yeah it’s like so many they can’t remember like all the shit you know I look at the notebooks and usually the not a mo more like full summer like three quarters then I lost it in a pair of bag forever I just get another one and be like I’d write this down like and I’m thinking why am I writing this down like at what point like in the middle of the night when I’m on nods and I’m in a gunfight I’m gonna pull this notebook out go oh yeah you know I’m just gonna beat you up to someplace where there’s nobody shoot at me and then I like figure it out yeah yeah yeah that’s why I would be I wrote down the notes that I wrote down were all notes that I wrote down so that I was gonna tell you guys yeah like every every note I have is a note to you guys I mean very I guess maybe there’s a third of them that are notes to me that say like hey tell the CEO bla bla bla or tell the brigade commander that you know the guys are gonna be over here like so there’s some notes like that but I don’t have any notes that say I felt I felt good about this operation and I you know I have a course not I never any of that I don’t have any of that I don’t like like when I actually did sleep I would

like all right my guns good okay I’d lay down and I would sleep like a baby for those hours whatever I slept so good in a war zone number one you’re like wicked tired number two it’s simple it’s not like life you get up every day okay here’s we’re gonna do that’s fine and go back mom oh and get up mmm easy mm-hmm no like regular life shit there’s there’s there’s definitely the op tempo of there’s just you constantly have the next thing that you’re like there’s no you never finish on a deployment you you think you don’t finish the day the day just rolls into the next day into the next day to the next day so you’re just on this this amped up cycle of what are we gonna do next what’s going on and it this doesn’t stop so when you when you when you have a chance to lay down your comm oh yeah it done there’s a picture of me and Dave Burke that steeled yeah yeah nice reaction time but it’s me and him I’m pretty sure it’s cop Falcon and you know he’s the commander of salt 6 and I’m the commander of tasking a bruiser and we’re up on this rooftop and we’re both asleep it’s probably about 10 o’clock in the morning and it’s funny but I was thinking like by the time I would get into the field I’d be so tired and you know and that’d be the first time we’re like okay cool everyone’s on security and I’m gonna go to sleep right now and it’s Dave Burke and me sit on a rooftop racked out just done and just need three hours of sleep I remember that one deployment that one I was up on this building and I had a 300 mag and I was looking through this thing and for some reason that little section it was just me we didn’t have enough people for the whole building whatever so that’s fine I could crawl and meet up with the other guys then go downstairs no big deal it was like August and I’m like fuck I don’t have any water I don’t have any shade nothing but I have to stay on the job so now I realized this about 9:00 in the morning so the Sun Goes Down at like 9:00 at night and I go okay yeah I’m breaking my shit down I’m kind of so this is after you’ve been sitting there for 14 hours yeah and you have a crawl back give zero fucking water in your system it’s like nothing it’s like a hundred and twenty degrees so I’m like I break out my silver Ranger I look because I know what’s going on my lips are is white as this piece of paper like just like that chunks some like going I’m peeling it off my like you know I’ll be fine but I literally got like three hours to like die all right so I don’t say a fucking thing cuz I want to be a pussy you know but I know I got some cokes or something and woman come to you you know I finally I get that like because my throat’s like this big you know there’s like nothing there’s no airway so put my rock on where exfil and out of the building at night you know and say you know I’m like looking down holding my field of fire you know and I’m the chief so I should be smarter than that but I’m like my vision starts to narrow because I like and I’m like I can snap out of it and I’m like now I’m good to go I get back and after like an hour back at the cam like oh shit I had to drink some water you don’t out drank like four quarts of water like in like six hours later I was pissing like blue you know still I don’t think you really come back from a dehydration like that but it’s all those years is like drinking and that just conditions you so when it’s you know Nilan so when you get into that spot it’s not so bad like I’m not gonna die wicked clothes no no seriously like in fact you know feeling your dizziness and then you just go and it goes away for a while then it comes back cuz you can’t out you can’t outrun your body you like you know I mean you have the dehydration will get you yeah it’s it’s crazy how the man you see guys that eats you guys at the desert training they’d go they’d go tits up pretty much if we were doing

when I was a trader if if it was summer and we were doing like a 8 6 to 8 click insert by the time extract was going down there’s a decent chance someone was going down yeah for real yeah and and you’re talking about completely sober usually hydrated usually like awkward answer why is it that it was usually on the insert because you’re just coming out of the damn air conditioning because that’s now that I think about it was almost always on the insert well one of the things I instituted and and if I’m wrong about this somebody correct me but I think I was the first guy to do it was we doing immediate action drills I would walk the guys out I did it fucking thousands of those and I would pre plan a guy and you kind of could tell like we’re not gonna shoot back towards the canal kind of shit but a guy who’s on the right flank if it was perpendicular parallel whatever it was or the point man they would just fall down with nothing just fall down and like way their guys would be like contact right you know order they start shooting and they drag the wounded guy and like okay and then comebacks with it and usually they did a good job you know like so what happened well you know we took contact this guy went down by the bar no you didn’t the guy just fell down well what do you mean I’m like well maybe it was a heat casualty mm-hmm and not to be a date yeah kinda to be a danger a little bit that’s how you teach the less it’s like you know so how do you differentiate maybe gets taken out by someone you don’t here’s a shot well what are you shooting at you know there’s no real good answer did you try to take the blinders off yeah I also say that’s one of those things what you’re actually teaching is like you actually have to think about what’s happening oh absolutely even an immediate action drill like okay there’s an immediate action drill but you better be you better think about what’s actually going on because the the answers aren’t what’s the word the answers aren’t just a rote memory no there’s no answer it’s all hectic garbage you got to decipher and figure out and the only thing that comes close to it in the civilian world is yeah Elkanah this last past year a killing this gigantic bull elk me and two team guys were there was five team guys there in Wyoming and when I when I killed my big bull it was like the other two guys couldn’t carry a gun because they’d already limited out they tagged out and so we ran it just like an OP and we have you know little PLO take off hand arm signal comes up and guys are my Chum crass is like okay this big bull Elks going from here to here and it was so intense and I tell this to my chums like I mean I’ve actually shot some guy in the war whatever you know like yawning hmm hunting Alcon like this they’re so like big and majestic and beautiful and like they will kill you in a minute and they don’t care about you they’re just like it’s like life on steroids it’s so unbelievable I highly recommend that if you like hunting you hunt help because it’s there screaming you’re not in a rut and they’re battling each other you can hear the times and then the big bull comes out fucking incredible I’m going in September it’s unbelievable with a bow it’s I’m never I’m not a bow hunter Yeah right I don’t know where you’re going you’re gonna Idaho going to Utah Utah yeah yeah to a to a place that guy went to high school bow hunts in Utah he’s from this the hunt that I’m going on I’m going with this because I take up it’s like the the best possible part like Andy Andy stump he said that this hon he’s at yeah he’s like this hon is gonna spoil you because it’s the best part I love that and even these good guys taking John Dudley he’s you know a world-famous bow hunter and Archer and he’s like yeah it’s good this is as good as it gets like just the spot where I’m going as good as it gets oh shoot it’s frickin it’s it’s so badass yeah you know and I went home back to New Hampshire because it was in October season back to New Hampshire hunted I hunt with these guys up at a camp they’re just like the best everybody’s like a character killed a deer this year you know but it’s not like that it’s it’s you know one thing

well so this guy John Dudley was asking me he’s like it seems like this would be good for guys to get into oh my god I’m like yeah and for me so we just did this 3d archery challenge up in Montana and when we’re up there look it’s an it’s an admin thing basically like you’re walking through the woods and then they go okay there’s the target and then you you shoot the target they’re anywhere between 30 and maybe 120 yards with a bow which is far shots but for me I was telling him I’m like you know when I was younger in the teams we would patrol around the woods yeah and that’s what you’re doing you’re patrolling on the wood you’re trying to be quiet like that’s a skill that and the wind yeah the wind and but like even in the desert it’s different than like when I was when I was when we would go to Fort Lewis Washington or we’d go to Fort Chaffee Arkansas or like we go down to pant you ever go to one of the training trips to Panama huh so like patrolling through the woods but then I might not Panama City Panama no panner oh yeah yeah jungle it’s so crazy you get that that that skill of walking quietly through the woods and looking at someone else and doing all hand signals and not and I was saying this to John I’m like and you’re not talking no no we’re living which I know I have a podcast which is what I do is like God talk a bunch but I actually actually don’t love to talk to all people all the time no really really so let’s some moment some like Jo was in your house who would walk I’m like hey what’s up yeah hey well hey chuckle what do you think about this and just be like just like turn and walk away like I think I’d be like looking at me Mike wheeler to me 400 you don’t want to talk to you so what don’t get all butthurt over it he’s got like stuff on his mind like I’m hungry yeah so that’s kind of cool I’m looking forward to going out in that on in in September and I’ll report back with how it goes absolutely man there’s a no pressure shooting a freaking bow and arrow at I am it’s no joke novio will be will be 30 or 40 yards away yeah nice outside of that like III can loosely hit a target you know wow you’ve been priced like yeah practice I practice but you don’t wanna you don’t want to have a bad shot nobody how are you everything good like shooting your bow like 50 yards I’ll hit all the time good to go okay yeah like I see your bad example like how can I stand next to you it’s like a fucking tambourine and make you like shake because nothing you’ll be like laughs then any like that man Nick when there can screaming it’s it’s the coolest thing in the fucking world I swear to god that’s awesome well I don’t know if you want to get her you want to get a bow and start hunting I’m here one thing at a time I don’t even know I’m doing after this podcast probably going across the street to Buffalo Wild Wings get all gooned up so bruiser I mean you know like I said there’s a million things to talk about to you bruiser but when you got done with T you bruiser what were your what would your like looking back on it not looking back on it now because now you just look back and everyone but when you were like when we got back two weeks later what were you what we look back at it from that closer perspective I I was kind of lost like he’s not gonna get any better than that you know like I was in the next troop I was the OP Steve then I got fired I didn’t get fired I get fired because I made senior chief and I was like well cool all right and then I had to go to the senior analyst Academy and it was like whatever and you know and I went the team seven and I pretty much got fired which was fine I didn’t want to do that anyway and those in ranges and they’re like we needed a guy to go do the Provincial Reconstruction Team I’m like okay so I’m like in Afghanistan in Afghanistan so I went to Afghanistan why did this work out for like two months at Camp Bay in Indiana so this is a this is a mission will you be going with not with like a

seal platoon but you’re going with some other kind of ad hoc group of people well no no no I was it was I had a seal lieutenant commander as the CEO okay when I was a seal senior chief and we really only SEALs and I had about a hundred people from the Navy the army the National Guard so it was an Air Force so it was ad hoc oh yeah and on it it was it was like leadership challenge I’m not used to working like with the regular but I am used to work with the rhythm eteri because every frogman has to so really wasn’t that bad but I had like very very minimal combat experience I had a couple of guys like these old crusty guys who are in the South Carolina National Guard some guys were in the Rangers they were awesome man bunch of they’re all like cops lot or do they must alive oh yeah or or prison guards you know and National Guard cats they were friggin awesome you know once we got through the language barrier because I’m from New England you know they’re all from South Carolina they they were badass man they were like a platoon that was mine my platoon you know and they were friggin great they to a to a guy every one of them was awesome I had some reserves Seabees who took care of the trucks you know my guys with no convex but never even driving these trucks you know mortars coming in they performed magnificently it was it was cool but I did a lot of vehicle work with him you know immediate action drills how to deal with down people you know we got some we actually got some pretty good training you know I learned a few things I’m not afraid to admit when I learned something from you know but we’re they’re like here you know I broke off for like month month and a half and just went back to my seal buddies and got half there it got a bunch of gun fights and you know we get mortared all the time I’d beaten a sandwich and rock Chinese 107’s come in like you know whatever but you know it was cool what was what were you guys actually doing we go into areas and like we wouldn’t build schools we wouldn’t build bridges we would facilitate it going there me with the village elders and I say we need this okay so we’d sent up a proposal then we’d go back give them money mm-hmm you know or put it out to bid and of course that’s all garbage it’s just a big like shakedown all the local politicians just to just come in and take the money and they’re like okay we’ll give you okay let’s do give him $50,000 to build a bridge all right so the guy wins the bid his company gets the 50 grand the politician comes in and takes like 30 and then they built the bridge so the name $10,000 now they come back and go we don’t have enough to finish we give them the rest of money I mean it’s like 20 percent of the 40 percent 30 I don’t know what it is percentages all shakedown money that were given new Afghanistan was like crazy mm-hmm but you know people think in this country that every other countries like us yeah no yeah well I remember that and I don’t know if remember we’ve got to Ramadi the one of the things that the guys were concerned about was they were like hey des the officers and the Iraqi army are taking the enlist their skimming out is up and then it was like you talk to the Iraqi there’s a well he’s the boss of course he’s gonna take us some of my money yeah scam that’s the way it goes you know and we were all thinking like like in America if you heard that hey the officer is skimming money for off the enlisted guys’s paychecks they’d be like oh that guy needs to be crucified right over there you’re like yeah they were like men well yeah of course he’s taken a little that’s his he’s the boss it’s not like it’s like people over there go like this they see it on the like 6 o’clock news with you know whatever shit you know she’s up there going oh today the scandal was don’t know there’s none of that it’s just whatever it’s all Wild West just do whatever you got big guns you get all the money the vid you spent that that year how many like different villages did you guys go try and God like all kinds of them yeah how would you get in there were you guys doing patrols in their vehicle patrols you flying in we rarely used air assets we have always had air support them at least standby

but most of the time we drove vehicles I had somewhere between a dozen and up to like 20 vehicles mm-hmm and I was usually the vehicle commander I wasn’t overall in June after the operation yeah sometimes I was mmm but I took these people who never really been in a military vehicle that much and we were okay survived few ambushes got bought up a few times and had wreckers with us refueling tankers I mean it was crazy these are some long transits that oh yeah a hundred miles some of them one way the ie D threat was was it was gigantic it was gigantic like I said we got blow up a couple times but you could tell was amateur hour so back then like said back then we had three big threats one was your trip wires or we were manual mm-hmm you know and then you had pressure plates I should play it zoom activated yeah so you pressure plates so the way we count we countered pressure plates is you got the mine rollers and they’re like an 8,000 pound thing they put in front of either a mat V or a whatever the other one is I had in my own bat V it was awesome but so you’ve roll that in front and of course I had a driver mm-hmm you know but you can’t just drive with that you have to counterbalance the it’s weird and you have to learn how to drive it so that’s like driving a trailer reverse right you’d have to put eight that 8,000 pounds of pressure whatever it was maybe I’m wrong and it would detonate if it does detonate it’s not it’s gonna fuck you up but it’s not gonna flip because you know how explosion works goes like this so we had that for the pressure plates for the so you had some countermeasures for the IEDs yeah and you ended up hitting just a couple yeah just come you know but around us guys hit a lot yeah we had to respond and we got pretty good at like going out not really being a a QRF but going out and providing support and and I would fan out and I’d walk up and talk to who’s in charge yeah what can we do you know but Afghanistan was kind of cool because I really loved the terrain mm-hmm big mountains like couple thousand eight that 9,000 feet up it was pretty cool it was actually beautiful there yeah could have ski frigging lodges and you know it’s that’s Northeast Afghanistan out west like desert but it was cool and then I came back from that and I put my papers and retire and it was just like went back to 9/11 running the boys but I basically had a great crew they pipe hitting guys they just knew what to do so I I kind of like get up in the morning and have my coffee they hit the gym for a bit maybe go for a run and then jump in my side by side with my 12-gauge and go shoot rattlesnakes and eat lunch and then do that some more go out to the range look around everything good yep come back to the camp like watch hockey and drink beer all night I’m pretty good I was like I gotta get out I gotta retire though on that and that’s pretty much it you know just terrible get out let’s just you know I mean I did some contract work for a while yeah that dried up and then went back to and you know landscaping & construction type work and that sucks but it was cool what are you gonna do now you’re retired now is that right oh yeah I mean no I mean like retire like yeah you’re not going to work everyday right now no no I guess that’s what I mean by retirement not not this summer not yet so I’m just kind of like btf and around yeah it’s actually kind of cool hey I got some questions yes and this is a great first question it’s very serious in retrospect what’s the dumbest reason you’ve ever gotten into a bar fight probably be easier to figure out the smartest reason you ever got into a bar fight Wow I’d have to say Far East Rock one

night like watching Monday Night Football and the Patriots were losing or something and someone said oh you know what it’s cool because you know I don’t have him in my fantasy flick darling and I just went fucking whack and I fucking smack the guy I don’t know like it’s just terrible like I just I was pissed and drunk and I don’t know that was pretty dumb yeah sounds like a good one in 20 plus years and the team’s what situation challenged your leadership the most and how did you work through it I probably have to say when when when Mark Lee got killed I have to honestly there of course and I mean that’s kind of a weird question and I’ll get to that but I I had to like shove that fucking shit deep down and not like show it and make sure that I was there for the rest of the guys cuz the milks on the floor obviously you got to find out why it happened so we don’t do it again what the fuck you know sometimes there is no answer but I had to push that shit way down and focus on the tasks at hand whatever they were the day I couldn’t just go hey Jocko and like I’m a bag of shit I’ll see you in two days I can’t do that I know so I mean I and I push it down before but that I had to really really really push it down so that was those challenging I mean other times like leadership that guys that get DUIs we intercepted the mail hide it from the cops so they never got DUI just take care of it on your own out in town and I can say that because both the guys did for dead hmm so I mean I had no problem like fucking cutting through red tape but yeah that was probably the worst what was your favorite qualification school that you attended while in the teams oh that’s uh that’s easy it’s a cross through in Sniper school and the tracking course yeah I was fucking great yeah yeah really good there must have been a human that when you were hunting yeah man you must have just been like oh yeah he’ll be overjoyed oh my god yeah but like track an elk if you’ve never done it it’s you don’t have to go yet oh you you look over especially if there’s a little snow mm-hmm there’s like eight billion tracks is there in a herd so it’s not like you look at me I can see it for like six hundred yards away like yeah but there’s no snow there because it was just you when you listen to these podcasts when I had this guy till John Stryker Meyer and his buddy Doug the Frenchman Letourneau on they’d be out in Laos or Cambodia and there was trackers there was NVA trackers with don’t yes that would be common after they carried as part of their standard loadout they carry pepper like dust and and some other rules the damn coughing met it was the coughing would tear gas tear gas powder they had that so they they put that on their trail and they’d hear the dogs like hunted the dogs becoming so then they trained him and then also need to start freaking out and then they’d bring up another dog skip that area and I said I said to tilt I was like do you do you I said you must hate dogs he was I hate him oh yeah a we we would we trained on how to defeat him and it’s like one way there’s there’s several methods but I mean I’m not gonna say it on here like how to defeat him but it’s so simple and it’s got like nothing to do with the doc mm-hmm it’s like crazy mmm it’s it it works – I did exercises you know and like I mean so I’m asking the cat and like hey mate you know these dogs like they’re they’re good at like exercises like oh now might they’re real dogs they’re gonna bite you like fuck just gonna suck I better fucking be good at it enough you know going over my notes okay what the you know oh yeah they were like police dogs yeah yeah yeah we’re gonna get you we thank God I mean I did it right but I holy shit that’s one thing it was a real world off right yeah you know I gotta m16 blanks yeah you know cuz it’s really nothing in New Zealand that can hurt you mmm wait there’s no poisonous snakes there’s no New Zealand’s freaking awesome

man it’s friggin wonderful the people are awesome yeah that places yeah oh like Maury’s you know they’re like so cool that’s one of the places I would take you in like this like okay yeah that’s one place I went to I was like this is just awesome like I could live there Oh in a minute in a minute I could live here that place is freakin amazing yeah it is if you could go back in time and give yourself one piece of advice before joining the teams what would that be hmm I don’t know I don’t think nothing I wouldn’t do it any differently I liked I could say I would have did this but I’m glad I did stuff like as a knucklehead and had some hard knocks and no I know no I wouldn’t done anything differently mm-hmm cuz the good the bad stuff that I went through made me better and a good side you know that kind of shit but yeah that’s one of those questions too it’s you know this is there’s people that ask there’s a nice there’s people that ask these kind of questions they’re looking for they’re looking for like a one like a one thing I answer of like you know if you could tell yourself here’s another cool if you if you go back and tell yourself your 20 year old self what would you tell yourself like it’s or oh yeah yeah invest in you know what is it Apple Apple or whatever oh yeah uh what’s the one leadership lesson you like there’s always that kind of thing or they ask it about everything man like that people ask it about everything what’s the one book you would watch in a they ask the same kind of question that there’s never an answer yeah I mean it’s like when I figured out early on is like okay you know what book cool about face somebody asked me yeah at somebody somebody asked me that in the live podcast and and like I talked about I’ve been talking about about face since I started talking to cat cora’s public yeah is awesome and so this guy at the live podcasts in New York sunglasses if you could recommend one book and I’m like does anyone only yesterday every was a cop-out face the game he asked you that question or you could easily say like my more like cracked magazine it was about the same yeah yeah so it’s weird I’m not trying it you know it’s like people want to hear they want the information to be so distilled down but it’s kind of like this kind of got to do the work yeah kind of like being in jiu-jitsu and being like what’s the one move you should know in jiu-jitsu it’s like mmm you know there actually is not one move so asking Tony what the one piece of advice it’s like man like where what is that where do you stick to your guns probably is good yeah don’t don’t give up when you know don’t like get away from your weight and I want to say principles I hate that word but you know whatever you believe in like the team’s like for me I was like now you know we know we you know you don’t do this you don’t do that like if I’m running a crew and everybody wants to make more time off and then you kind of give in no now here’s what I’m doing that’s it if you stick to that and there’s you can’t blow up you know disarm a bomb that already went off mm-hm so just stick to what you’re doing unless it’s so fucked uh of course but you know I had this my my second platoon commander the real squared away guy but we we did a hydro at Camp Pendleton and like we went to read be there was a freaking nightmare it was freezing and waves were huge we go out we do it frogmen is it and then we get everything recovered we come back we sit there in the zodiac typing up the freakin message with the little codes in it for how the beaches we come back we get in we draw them you know the cartographer guys don’t take all that information and draw the maps and blah blah blah blah and we and then the Marines launch we even we land the Marines yeah yeah and then the Marines weren’t happy with what they did they weren’t happy with the landing so I think I’ll reload so the next night they’re like okay you guys going to go dude we’re doing the whole thing again ruin everything again yeah so hydro recon so we go out and all of us boys were like you know we just did the hydro you know nothing’s changed there’s nothing changed and that boss that oh I see he goes that’s not the point he goes he goes I clear as day because I’ll never forget

him saying this because I use this coin about a million times with all my guys he goes you’re right he goes hey guys you know we don’t have to do the hydro again but would that be the right thing to do yeah you got it and I was like get your lead lines boys I mean that’s how right your bank your biggest right is the guy in the mirror yeah that’s the one you got an answer to not anyone else guy in the mirror yeah that that like I never forgot that from then on from the rest of my life it’s been like what’s the actual right thing to do right now yeah what’s the actual right thing it’s usually the one that’s so fucked up in the hottest way yeah yeah it’s gonna suck yeah it’s like everything yeah well I could do this or I could do that no which one’s hotter yeah well then that’s the one and a problem should do you and then nine times out of 10 you’re gonna be right yeah yeah does this suck this way is easy but this way sucks okay but that’s the one I have to do yeah cuz then you if not you’re just like I should’ve did this but I’m just all weak and stupid and then you just get all mad and you end up doing that anyway so mother just do it and get it over with as a sniper team leader prepping for deployment in European one of the top five things I should drilling my guys wants to support combat operations limited range time about one range every other month I wouldn’t be so concerned about range time I’d be concerned about environmental shooting like nighttime low light sundown sunup communication between each other not so much like snipers spotter or like areolas just put yourself in a in a 360-degree you know white side black side whatever and communicate okay you got guys all around how are we doing this we got too much shit over here do we need to shift forces yeah need a range to do that you don’t need a range you don’t even need to carry weapons to do that you know you obviously have to shoot yeah but and then cross training all the other guys on the sniper weapon because sometimes you have to take a break and you got to give somebody else who’s not a sniper doesn’t mean you can’t shoot a gun I mean it’s easy but do more cross training on there’s no reason that a non sniper and a seal platoon shouldn’t have a thousand rounds through whatever weapons system we’re using right now there’s no reason maybe a thousands a little bit but at least couple hundred there’s no reason with that but we’re that busy you know getting up and going to work and like running around and talking about uniform standards but we can’t I mean come on we got all this time you have like no one shooting at you back here so you should like maximize that time you know don’t get me wrong you need time off to drink beer and be frogmen but job is a job what did you do to keep Jocko in check getting nothing that’s very terrible that question I know that’s an important question to like someone who doesn’t know you I don’t know maybe not like destroy everyone in the morning jujitsu sessions so like when they had to actually do something I had to yell in there other year because that cauliflower ear fucking torqued yeah basically hey man this guy not in our chain of command who’s like working in another department he’s limited you don’t know him but I do he’s not you kind of got to be not a frogman but kind of gotta be a little gentle with this guy because he’s good at what he does just don’t go in there and Karam death cos he’s just gonna like fade into the shredder room and cry so you know maybe that but very limited yeah you can do with this fucking gag no I think people and we talked about this last time wasn’t like I mean first of all you and I were like if you and I looked at a target we would come up with a salute the same thing because why because if this paper is the target like when I look at it I look at it there’s nothing in my head but that you look at

it so here we go oh yeah yeah yeah okay no you look at it like really really look at it and envision what what this high ground here what’s on top of that high grass or trees is that how can i okay I need to take this section of the map and I need to add the other five because we’re coming from here so I’ll add boom boom boom boom and this and then egress this way if this is my any point so next thing you know the maps the size of this fucking room that’s how you look at a target you know just look at go oh yeah well I’d go in here what who says you got to go in there’s a hundred and fifty ways to do this mission but you have to look at that target mm-hm and really really look at it and then envision it in 3d as you’re walking up to me that’s I think that’s what we do pretty good yeah I I just always remember like I’d you know some mission whether it was overseas or well no matter what now I’d be like looking at it going I think it’d probably be good to do it like this and then you’d be like why why don’t we do this and I like Yelp yeah I mean yeah there may be like one little difference but that’s that’s my new I think with btf Tony can you share some stories about team guys that influenced you in good and bad ways during the early days and the teams oh yeah I mean we’ve been talking about that the whole time I think one of the reasons I picked that question was because it said eating good and bad ways bad ways I just think not being totally totally 100% team guy I’ve seen some guys who in charging me that you know they just seemed at the time a little more interested in you know just getting through what we were doing and not vewy you know it’s like a chief two weeks ago when we’re doing this can I I want to bounce my notes off your as he’s like I don’t have any notes Mike hmm all right that’s terrible mhm that’s terrible why don’t you have any notes like isn’t this like the pinnacle of your fucking career because for me it was mm-hmm and you know yeah I get it if there was no war going on but still isn’t that like that’s why I say some of these guys were champions like most respect fucking awesome cat some of them they kind of put us behind the power curve when the shit really hit the fan after 9/11 because they were just kind of going through the motions and they didn’t like before we got into the mobility world that they’d never they’re like oh yeah will either get dropped off by Hilo and hump in or come in by boat wait what about vehicles well we don’t really do that we mean we don’t do that are you gonna get from point A to fuckin be you know and once we started doing it it was a bunch of ketchup mm-hmm it took fucking smart guys like TK there to really ramrod the mobility program and and do that kind of shit and like when you guys think of this I mean yeah I’m why didn’t I think of it yeah I kind of did but I was a lonely or low guy trying to learn the ropes you know and I don’t think this is any favors I didn’t think about it I didn’t think about mobility I didn’t either myself like oh cool what up but other guys that are better frog man or q1 cats we’re doing it the what I what I like I was still trying to sort out what just yeah might be a good team guy right but yeah looking at it seems like those days there was there was seem like you would need we needed as a community to look at like what could happen one one writing thing that I was looking at when I was a young team guy was I realized a long fuckin time ago that there are no terrorists really I mean I’m wrong about some things in Afghanistan but there are no real bad guys in the middle of fucking nowhere there’s gonna be buildings there’s girl it’s gonna be it’s not gonna be a person with combat and then out in the middle and warfare in Illinois it’s gonna be a nice yeah and as soon as we got rid of the sub guns and started carrying long guns for close-quarter bow that’s that’s one of the styles yeah and it was all it was always gonna be a mix whether you’re coming over the beach yeah you’re coming in even going on to a ship yeah oh yeah because people were some people want to stick with sub guns cuz you’re going on a shit and I love the sup guns oh yeah

you’re sure if they’re awesome for sure but at a hundred-yard fan tells ya god yeah or a hundred and fifty yeah you got you could have some issues yeah big issues yeah at what point in your career did you start to feel competent in operating killing the enemy and making sure your brothers came home with you did you start to feel like you could do it every day and be successful yeah I always felt that way yeah well how many platoons did it take before you started feeling competent I like one I mean I always felt like I was good to go yeah I could do this I can fan I have fantasized but I’ll admit it I couldn’t wait to kill anybody I loved it because that’s your job like and it was it was kind of a letdown like was I you know you think like in the movies you know you train so much so I bang alright on the next one but yeah I felt it right away it not that that was never the issue the issue has always been confident as a leader mm-hmm that took a while it wasn’t an immediate it took it took me a while how good were you as a as an LPO when you’re 85 I thought I was pretty good but when you look back on it no I was okay because we didn’t have a lot of I I was basically really good at the basics yeah I see I always felt like well once I got done with a job I would want to go back and do it again and I’d feel like I would do it so awesome and you don’t get to do that right you don’t mean you know I did a platoon commander I was like oh but I you know I did fine yeah but like as soon as I got done I was like I should have done this I should have done that as a tu commander I got done I was like yeah sure done this I should have done that just want to do better well absolutely I mean LPO thing when you’re a peacetime LP oh no I was always mixing it up and everybody seemed to like me I mean they didn’t bitch too much couple guys did but it was all good you can’t do everything yeah all the team guys under your friggin belt there’s gonna be guys go he was a fucking asshole and he just fucking did this was stupid of course it’s gonna be that you know but I think for the most part I mean I did all right try to I mean I could have done better like telling people how oh you know you you’re doing good and you know it’s okay no I’m glad I was a dick kind of tough but when I say that not a dick but a but you know that you say that like and Lafe pointed me this out to me the other day and he remembered it it’s funny because I had just written about it what I wrote about was like if a platoon it at land warfare was doing good I wouldn’t say like this is when I wasn’t ready I wouldn’t say hey you guys kicked ass as a task unit I wouldn’t say hey you guys I’d say hey Bill you and your fire team did a good job holding down the black side of that target and hey Mike when you grab that other guy and you flank those down on the hill that was awesome cuz but I would never just say collectively uh uh awesome because then what happens is they all fall apart yeah yeah and that’s what kind of what you did to you used to if somebody if somebody did something good you would tell them they did good yeah if but you wouldn’t be like hey everyone did great no because the chances of that’s like false like oh you know everything you did was amazing this is amazing everything’s amazing that’s so fucking stupid I hate that like you did your job like what do you want a fucking medal now here’s your mat oh there’s an MRE and go over there and be stupid go gear shit ready we got another Ross and besides you know it’s not like I talked down everybody these are my brothers like yeah man that was cool that’s about the best team guys compliment yet yeah hey that one alright yeah good job yeah okay cool that’s but yeah on to the next thing yeah guys like yeah I gotta go to the head whatever it’s like no big deal last question do you still smile when you’re here stand by to get some yeah yeah that’s pretty cool I mean come on it’s a you know it’s gonna happen and you know on after a while it’s a fuck yeah yeah bring it you know it’s like that cat there when uh Ted Williams Ted William Teddy ballgame mm-hmm I mean he was hitting 402 and he had the two games

series and they’re like man you’re hitting over 400 just don’t play you know you’re the only guy who’s ever hit over 400 he’s like fuck that and he went like three four five and he went to like 406 407 and he risked it all because yeah I’m playing the money this is a guy who took time off fly jets in Korea or Vietnam or two and Korea I mean like yeah what are we gonna do like okay we got it we’re going home in a week well we’re not gonna do this up fuck you we’re not gonna do this up you know then you know we go home I mean what if you died right before you so what that’s why I’m here I mean if that happens it happens because a fuck I mean it’s what it is right that is what teams and shit that that trumps everything it’s like teams of shit okay I’m a team guy that’s it all right done yes and be good to see you good to see you brother good player out good to see you man oh he’s freaking awesome to have you back on yeah I’m glad I could man and hopefully I’ll see you up in Maine if you can swing by yeah that’d be cool I’m sure a bunch of people are gonna want to meet you up there I told one of my cats back home he’s like oh I’ll fucking Drive the Harley down there all sad echo yes speaking of standing by to get some what do you got how can we be more prepared to get some as they say many ways all right well one way as we always say is jiu-jitsu Tony feels a little bit about that as well um when you do did you to me peas right unless you do a noogie but we recommend ghee and no ghee so when you get a ghee where do we get them or Georgian so this is so Tony’s from New England and you know Tony and I were talking yesterday and man if you grew up in New England then you saw the economy get just annihilated yeah and whether it was the the factories that were shutting down the textile factories that were shutting down the clothing manufacturers the shoe manufacturers all these the paper man Falcone yeah got shut down and you know it’s one of those things that when I when I talk to companies and they say well you know you were dealing with you were dealing with life and death and we’re not and I said yeah but you’re dealing with people’s livelihoods and what would as a as a as a mom as a dad your livelihood is how that’s your life that is your life and so if you grew up in New England and a nun newing that’s not the only place because it’s all over America when you’re manufacturing got taken away and sent overseas it’s a nightmare you go up to these towns and there’s no work not that people don’t want to work believe me they’re New Englanders they want to work yeah and I keep saying New Englanders because but it’s everywhere but it’s a forget it yeah Americans want to work and so you know with origin and when you come up and see the factory you know we got 45 or 50 folks now employed in Farmington which is awesome Maine the up Farmington Maine and you know it’s like are they employees yeah yeah they’re employees because they’re working there but you know what they are they’re part of what we’re doing yeah they’re not as something part of something yeah they’re the ones that are actually making the the gear making the jujitsu Keys making the jeans we started making geez I’ll get you some jeans when we get up there yeah boots we’re making boots I’ll get you some boots when we get up to Hartford like we got folks that have been out of work for 14 years it’s fucking stoked and you know getting after to be back they want nothing more than to come in and and get on those machines make the boots make the jeans we just started printing to you like we’re doing everything and we’re doing everything so I’ll bring you up there if you guys come anytime I can’t make it up then you can come up whenever you want yeah I’m gonna open pass to go to the factory in Maine and check it out and see you know it’s it’s just a beautiful thing to go up there and see a town that’s and this is just a starting point man yeah and people people can think I’m you know dreaming I’m not like we’re gonna build this thing it is gonna be massive we’re gonna bring back manufacturing to America and there’s no one’s gonna stop us that’s not gonna happen no one so if you need something like that if you need AG if you need a rash guard you get it from origin main comm if you need a pair of jeans go on there and get them somebody said these jeans are expensive and I said you know what I said you’re right you’re right they are too

expensive right now they’re they’re not at the price point we want to get them down to but as we build more and grow more we’ll be able to get those expenses down but we have to start somewhere yeah I can’t obviously give them away no you gotta pay the people yeah we got we got to pay the workers so we’re getting there we will build this and there’s nothing’s gonna stop us yeah I don’t think they’re that expensive anyway well well they’re cheaper they’re they’re more expensive than a pair of mass-produced jeans from China in a sweatshop with a plane with they’re paying their employees right literally 50 cents a day so yes our jeans more expensive than I find lasts forever they’re a hundred bucks don’t ever you buy two pairs it’s a hundred bucks so anyways that’s the deal and if you think that’s if you think 100 bucks is too much hey man I get it save up save up get yourself a pair of now really yourself a pair of jeans made in China that are made in a sweatshop where you know some the corporate the core the corporation is gonna make all the money and none of its gonna come back here to America so all right sorry I’m getting a little crazy don’t buy jeans there’s other stuff too which is also tons other stuff so what supplements so important supplements to keep you in the game joint warfare krill oil which I had an experience and didn’t even know it when I went to Hawaii you went off this I went off didn’t even realize that you know the krill oil and joint warfare to you and here’s the weird thing my elbow is it is you’re correct yeah it was amateur band I didn’t even realize it till I got oh so I go you know and I was lifting oh yeah oboe I had it so bad this one yeah but yeah if you go on the joint warfare and krill oil okay if you don’t have someone give you some it’s good it takes like I guess depends on who you are to me like six days for to like really start that’s only a couple days more than a cortisone shot though really yeah yeah right yeah that’s like two and a half days you will do it like you go and read the reviews of joint warfare and there’s people that are saying oh I couldn’t do I couldn’t I couldn’t lift my whatever you know I couldn’t swing my ham or whatever I’m back in the game melody oh yeah yeah so completely sludge yet so I come back and I’m like okay let me get you know back into I was like man I wasn’t lifting that hard in Hawaii and not as often either so I’m like why’s my oh my god oh my gosh totally hit me I was like dang yet another instance of me playing myself but proof you see I’m saying anyway so yeah stay on that joint or fur and krill oil there is also discipline mmm good deal dibs on the discipline train big-time I’m with him on that train everyday pretty much daily yeah hey Lee disappear yeah in all things and this is this yet another one yes also milk if you want additional protein in the form of a dessert by the way the best desserts oh you know I never would have thought what I’ll do is make a dessert yeah that’s that’s got protein I wouldn’t think that because it doesn’t seem like it’s a possible feasible thing yeah but then it turns out to be yes it is one of that’s yeah I know John go a long time one of his favorite sayings is not actually as saying he’s just like talking to you cuz you’re next to him going stopping starving right now always starving like every like okay we know we ate like an hour a half ago fucking so hungry really yeah well not all these crazy fast like intermittent fasting yeah well it gets a milk yeah tastes good get some tea some jakka white tea and that’ll ain’t don’t forget about the warrior kid milk yeah which i think is the game changer yeah he’s gonna be guys from back home a lot of guys watch podcast but can you just go over the Oh calm again whatever it is Oh origin or Georgian main dot-com main as in the state right ma i ne-yo yeah yeah or do you mean that comes we get all this stuff also Jaco has a store it’s called Jaco store of course he’s super creative with the names and a lot of thought in yeah man it’s good turned out good um anyway that’s where you can get that’s shirts who was it it was I think Flynn Cochran he was he was saying that the original Jocko product was because I used to give like a brief the leadership brief to the to the guys that were started and he’s like they they called that the Jocko brief and I didn’t think about I was like oh yeah that’s like the

original the original chuckle Prato product yeah and then so I can’t be just blamed on lack of creativity from my part well yeah you can I guess I can yeah actually yeah and also you got asked the question did fling come up with that after no chuckle but yeah no it was it was I mean Mike’s relly same thing like oh this yeah did jock will be you know what though when you kind of think about it what do you call it like phonetically or whatever I don’t know if that’s the correct word but like when you say Jocko it’s kind of matches you know like jock ghost or Jocko brief it’s not like it’s like you know you know yeah the whole line is because you know that story that you just told about me being hungry the reason this whole thing started with Jocko is because when I was on Tim Ferriss is pot ass I fasted that day and he was like well you know we’ve been talking for a long time maybe we should go get something to eat and I went Jaakko hungry like I was just joking you know but then but not really it didn’t like a little while later it was oh we’re gonna have a podcast and I was like okay Jocko podcast almost like I’m a knucklehead podcast that was the original buzzy sound Oh unless it’s like if you’re gonna name something like that starts with an O that’s when it wouldn’t really work like if you like o ocean Jocko ocean that kind of sounds good I guess no I take over an ocean somewhere well stores where you can get shirts discipline equals freedom boom more rash guards on there too by the way dope which are which are origin rash guards yes sir they named America mm-hmm choco taco that works that was good choco taco oh yeah Paco’s tacos I need to start a taco shop well why not yeah might as well jeez often around here in San Diego Farfan yeah oh yeah maybe you can’t find one taco shop around here where my daughter who’s my oldest daughter comes home then she’ll like fly home and she will stop at a taco shop oh yeah and stay away from the airport that’s just asada oh cool it’s looking forward to seeing you you need to be home in ten minutes he’s like no no I’ll be home in a half an hour because I’m gonna get a taco well absolutely gonna get a California burrito oh I hadn’t liked three of the last four days so good just can’t change that so cool ocean chuckles tacos and chocolate or of course like we’re saying um shirts rash guards hoodies hats you know all kind of stuff you’re gonna represent while you’re on the path boom good place to do so also subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already if you’re into it mmm if you’re into subscribing super easy oh yeah on Google Play stitcher iTunes you know don’t forget about the warrior kid podcast for the children stories not just questions but stories from uncle Jake about how uncle Jake got his values in life what made him say I should be prepared you know what know how I tell a story uncle Jake goes on a little on a little there’s there’s a little rowboat and Uncle Jake and his buddy when he’s eight to go out on the rowboat and while they’re out a little bit he says I you know we’re not we don’t need life jackets cuz you know we’re just cuz nice day I paddled around here so they’re out in the rowboat and they’re clowning around or whatever and let go the oars for a second they both slip out through the through the oar locks and there’s a wind blowing so within five seconds they’re they’re gone from the under the middle lake yeah and they have to drift all the way to the other side and then borrow some but you know there was that moment where things were bad yeah so that’s when Uncle Jake learned you need to always be prepared for things to go down that’s an actual story too by the way those that really have that and that really happened to me so there you go stories of Uncle Jake on the warrior kid podcast so get some of that also speaking of warrior kids it’s a word kid that I know heard of myth it’s not a myth not real real name is Aiden making warrior kids so not worry kids help Jocko so he’s the warrior kid that’s now we got two ducklings are getting out and that sounds good to joke with soap there’s also trooper soap by the way which is like another woody call flavor if you will soaps not flavors right don’t eat it like we know that use it to wash up and it’ll help you stay clean yes very good smells like Irish it smells like hey

that would be awesome to make mouths like war it smelled like cordite or whatever oh yeah powder good yeah yeah it smells like napalm yep victory in the morning well jock awake tea tastes like victory don’t point well yeah you know when you say it it should smell like wore that kind sort of made me think of how you and Lafe and actually all you guys would tell us how war smells like some powder in the sewage yes terrible yeah that’s actually the terrible idea yeah yeah okay like the range the range smells good you know good diesel fumes in the back of a sea Fox now or when you’re in a helo and refueling like in here and in-flight refueling don’t think I’ve ever done that it’s absent powers of just diesel everyone’s just like just like and I don’t like ever get sick but that stuff but I was like I’ve gotten yeah I got seasick three times once was in the back the sea Fox fell asleep with the diesel fumes just in and the next one was an LCU I was downstairs in a raging storm water proofing the radios in the engine room it just diesel rocking all over the place I came up and started yakking in the and the BMC that was run in the LCU was hanging his head over the side yakky sounds like all right I’m cleared hot technically is that getting seasick Velvets from NASA whew I don’t know yeah I never did it so yeah you got C sassy there never happen to me nonetheless the the the scent aroma of the troopers open the Jocko soap is pretty good not okay and very functional by the way you’re still talking yes it’s very important I mean we could talk about the diesel fuel fumes seasickness somewhere if you don’t want true I’ll take the hit nicely no no I’m taking up to this job up to you you’re doing doing a good job anyway take the hit also we have a youtube channel beat you have Tony into YouTube or one not really but yeah yeah well I would be surprised if you were but you can get addicted to various videos nonetheless we have a YouTube channel with good videos video version of this podcast excerpts enhanced excerpts enhanced means that echo puts all these effects in them like well I got a watch that I have these explosions these are on fire absolutely yeah but yeah YouTube channel jockle podcast boom also psychological warfare psychological warfare yeah what is that breath it’s enough you always get mad at me explaining it don’t have the best Xcode here’s here’s a psychologic word if you ask for an alarm clock which is kind of where this started if you’re if you’re asking for an alarm clock that has me telling you to get up there’s where you get it psychological warfare it’s on iTunes it’s on Google Play it’s on a mp3 he actually started when Eko asked me a question about something and I was like here’s the answer and then he was like coming to record that mm-hmm and then we just went from there yeah that’s cool the question was what was original question impressive one and it was with me was with workouts so like when I workout or when I plan a workout and I just really don’t feel like it and you know that’s a common thing like well you just do it anywhere you don’t be a beat ef3 all right so I’m thinking man I wish I was better at btf in through it seem sane I wish I was too lately it’s a real thing so I’m like I won you know cuz I can imagine you know jock will just be tester or some like but what do you like say you know like what what goes on in your mind do you just not think about it at all and you just sort of automatically do it do you say something or I don’t know like what what is it you know what a message I think two weeks ago I turned 51 and a mic actually made it past fifty gonna fucking be nice it’s got to do some right yeah you know especially when you think you’re gonna not make it to 30 you know for sure oh yeah I’m like mm there you go it doesn’t get any the old everyday you get older it gets terrible you wake up you’re like oh what is this now here what’s this I realize you know how I’ve said one of the things I noticed about getting older is and I don’t notice that much and I don’t admit that I was it either so even if I was in a ton of pain I wouldn’t tell anyone but one of the things that I have admitted is that my first couple rounds of jujitsu I’m I’m I was a couple rounds of warm-up now you know especially especially if I’m going with Dean and Andy so Andy didn’t used to be this bracket he’s in there now so where’s the other thing that I noticed I

I once mine because I couldn’t run when I hurt my knee and so now that my knees like getting better I can run again not you know crazy but what I noticed is same thing if the first like the first half mile that I run I just I must look like a person that just never run before and then the longer I run what I mean the first half but you run more when I’m coming home and I’m once I’m warmed up I’m like oh yeah cool cool and that’s one thing that sucks is when you were young you just didn’t have to do anything and you jump dude no you didn’t do anything for three months and then you show up at a team they’re like hey we’re doing a nine mile run today you better Cole just got do it and you’re fine now you’d like mmm the first come first half mile you got a flat tire let walk run the show terrible yeah if you want a visual version of little things to keep you on the path then go to flipside campus comm Dakota Meyer he’s got a company there again made in America made right in Austin Texas making cool artwork I’m trying to think of a better word for that cuz I don’t like saying you don’t match I know same artwork I know bow is it a better word I don’t know no no I think it’s artwork visual inspirational shit no inspirational might be worse yeah I mean it’s worth saying it I dig it it’s inspirational stuff actually not really know what for a lot cool looks like canvas calm yeah for whatever you want to call it you hang it on your walls you hey yeah you know why he named it that cuz the last thing he said to one of his one of his teammates in Afghanistan was alright man well I’ll see you on the flip side yeah and everyone on his team died that guy hit and so he’s like that’s what this is that’s a good name and horrific for men so support Dakota and his company flipside campus.com he’s making all kinds of good cool graphics does that matter I fix it on there but that’s not the end product hmm I’m gonna think of something eventually maybe I’ll make up a word for it like Molk yeah maybe yeah do that look about it watch this choco canvas yeah that doesn’t matter no from the last also on it so on it calm slash chakra this is where you can get worked out gear there’s some cool DSM do you do sand bass did you watch my uh little clip I put out my edit yeah I did I didn’t pay max attention so you got sandbags on that yeah okay yeah yeah by the way if anyone of that that band that I clipped out there it’s called life’s blood it’s an old-school hardcore band from upstate New York that’s from an old 7-inch that Elgin James sent me because we there was a great band there great band they’re the the lead singer is now a cop somewhere in Atlanta or something but anyways that’s life’s blood I don’t know where you can find it but that’s the music on that use video that I edited in email by the way I’m gonna take echoes job from them that’s frigging dangerous maybe I’ll take a rational in front maybe do the briefings on that yeah let’s see that maybe I will check so anyway what I was trying to say about the sandbags is when I was getting stuff yeah from on it I saw the sandbags those like I’m gonna get this I don’t have a sandbag routine yet for those wondering when I was doing the sandbag I pick it up throw it over my shoulder turn around pick up through my world my shoulder well over again how big is it I don’t how heavy just I don’t know my son when he came home from wrestling camp and he was like you know kind of kind of walking around he did two weeks wrestling the really good wrestling camp called J Rob 14 day intensive wrestling camp awesome camp and they they put these guys through the ringer it’s wake up in the morning conditioning breakfast wrestling lunch wrestling dinner conditioning and they do that for 14 days straight to graduate you have to the last thing you do is a 12-mile run so like it’s and you’re all beat down when you’re doing that so yeah when he came home from that you know he was kind of bowing up a little bit oh yeah they’ve been yeah he was bowing up and I said oh you handed them the sandbag don’t get do this this this and this seem like that sandbag yeah all right well I’m gonna take another look at that because I think I’m gonna get this in there you should definitely get one also yes kettlebells on there that’s

where all my kettlebells are from and yeah a lot of good stuff on that go there on it calm slash chuckle hey I wrote a bunch of books weigh the warrior kid war your kid to Mark’s mission warrior kid 3 where there’s a will Mikey and the Dragons and this one it goes Freedom Field Manual extreme ownership in the dichotomy leadership these are a bunch of books I wrote if you like what we’re talking about here if you’re an adult get the adult books if you’re a kid get the kids book if you have kids give them the kids books and you might want to check out the kids books even if you’re an adult yes so there you go Ashlin front that’s our leadership consultancy and what we do is solve problems through leadership go to echelon front comm for details so what we do all day every day EF online this is leadership training online interactive and put you on the spot ask you questions when you when you become a leader or when you’re gonna become a leader you’re not gonna learn everything in one shot and just like an armlock you don’t learn it one time and now you’re good you have to practice and that’s what EF online.com will allow you to do we got the mustard next muster coming up September 19th and 20th in Denver and then December 4th and 5th in Sydney Australia extreme ownership comm for details if you want to come to sign up right now because otherwise it’s gonna sell out they’ve all sold out and of course we got EF overwatch when we’re taking proven SpecOps leaders and combat aviation leaders and placing them into companies in the civilian sector that need one thing more than anything else to win and that is they need leaders and if you don’t feel like we’ve talked for a long enough and you want to talk to us more you can find us on the interwebs tony is at frogman NH 164 do you think you know your password yeah I got it somewhere yeah people are gonna want to like ask you questions then you can be like yeah 99% of its gonna be that’s 99% of my text package for Tony’s yeah it’s ridiculous you guys should see it if I if you link up with me and we’re talking anyway Jocko what were you guys talking about a bit yeah yeah check this because I don’t really erase anything with that his Jacko’s text like 70 lines my T’s crying dude what are you on a crapper so I have all this time I can do like three lines and he’s like and also echo and I are on Twitter we’re also on Instagram and we’re also on the fusion of Bugan she bruising broken echo is that echo Charles and I am at dock well I can’t go anything else no Sarah nothing else tanks ETF Tony thrown a girl’s brother pleasure and my brother now man thank you for having me on good to see you guys and a nice pad here now is it’s good to go never been here yeah awesome like to shout out to all my friends back home you know if I don’t anybody and everybody I know and I’m in San Diego right now and all my team guy buddies and my girlfriend Becky and my you know my off back home and all my chums back there now see you guys soon thanks for having me on always a pleasure guys your class act we’re an and teams and shit of course thanks for coming back on again obviously and hopefully I’ll see 150 episodes yeah right firing 50 episodes since you can you are on episode 41 we’re now on to 191 Wow it’s crazy it’s ridiculous yeah we got to do next time we do this we gotta have someone in here like with me someone else with me because this is like one and you know I I’m running I’m not that interesting I can’t remember any shit half the time know what you should do is next time we’ll listen to this one and then go and write down notes of what you want to talk about next time I’m like like five stories or whatever oh yeah things like whatever if we could get on like someone we were talking about at my first LP ode somewhere like yeah I get someone like that on yeah with me oh yeah sure just me yeah with you guys yeah yeah no man anybody any of them doesn’t want to come on I if I could have him come on that’d be you sick I’ll ask them yeah ask him and yeah man we’ll do it again and seeing me yeah we’ll see in Maine thanks for coming back thanks for man thanks for everything you did thank you brother

you know holding that thread that I was talking about earlier that thread through the years when there was no war going on there’s plenty of people that you know they did their job and they went on their deployments or whatever you were freaking toeing the line man you were toeing the line and and keeping that knowledge base improving that knowledge base that’s what you did to it so that when we got to war we were ready so thanks for doing that my pleasure for the teams thanks for everything you did for bruiser of course and as far as I’m concerned you’re actually the model of the American fighting man oh you’re the motherfucker that went up against the Japanese and the Nazis and said you know what we don’t care what kind of warrior culture that you have we got something else we’re Americans and we’re about to fuck you up at Shh I’ve got something that none of you other countries have I’m gonna go what like fucking John Wayne if you can produce anyone a quarter as good as that man then I’ll maybe listen you we have fucking John Wayne best guy ever in the history of ever you know my you know if you monitor yourself to him in everyday life then you got nothin to worry about what would John Wayne do he there go yes no or punch you good and then he’d have a bunch of whiskey and then you know shoot a bunch of people and get on his horse and go have a steak and smoke like it’s one two hundred cigarettes good plan yeah good plan yeah awesome everyone else all the other veterans out there that have served thanks for what you’ve done those that are serving right now thanks for what you continue to do to our police and law enforcement and firefighters paramedics EMTs dispatchers BP Border Patrol correctional officers Secret Service all the first responders out there thank you for your service here at home and to everyone else out there you know you’re gonna make mistakes you’re not going to be perfect things are gonna go wrong and when things go wrong it’s pretty easy just to say you know what I’m gonna stand down I’m gonna take a knee or I’m gonna give up and you can do that or you can do what Tony would do which is grab your gear and just grab a knife and you’re at EF until you get things back on track and that’s what I recommend you do so until next time this is btf tony and echo and Jocko out