Jocko Podcast 240: Your Fight Against Inertia. A Body At Rest… Combat Lessons 2, with Dave Berke

this is jocko podcast number 240 with echo charles and me jocko willink good evening echo good evening and also joining us tonight once again dave burke good evening dave good evening all right last podcast which was podcast 239 in case you couldn’t subtract one from 240 and i suppose we should give out some kind of shout out to the 240 golf i don’t know why but we should shout out to all you machine gunners out there that that ran that 240 golf last podcast 239 we covered the first edition of combat lessons rank and file in combat what they do and how they do it that was number one and you know to be honest when i got done with that one i said you know that’s cool there’s but there’s more of them and i kind of thought to myself you know well uh how many combat lessons are there right and then i remember this is 240 podcasts worth of combat lessons but i was leaning towards hey probably not going to cover more of these things because there are more of them and then i started reading number two and as i read number two kind of out of the gate section one which is called leadership and you just get you just restart reading it and before i knew it i couldn’t stop and there’s more lessons more perspectives more angles some more knowledge to make us better and i was really coming at this one i was really thinking about life a lot you know all aspects of life and i think it’s the opening of this that gave me that sort of mindset going through it i was thinking about life the parallels are everywhere all right let’s let’s go to the book and i think dave coming out of the gate you’re gonna realize where i why i got so sucked into this thing just out of the gate so the first section like i said it’s called leadership and then and then the first subsection is leaders versus inertia i was already i was you had me at inertia as they say lieutenant colonel r e o’brien cavalry observer with the fifth army in italy here’s what he says in spite of the fact that i observed many interesting things in practice in the practice of tactics and technique still the one lesson that stands out in my mind above all others is the one that is so well known by military men that its statement here amounts to little more than a platitude i mentioned it however because it had such a profound effect upon me that lesson is the importance of and need for adequate leadership so cool i got through that fine i wasn’t quite there yet and then i read this the effect on most men of the impact of battle is to cause them to want to do nothing a determined effort must be exerted to accomplish even simple tasks and men are likely to neglect duties which they know must be performed so think about that right right out of the gate right there the effect of men in battle is that you’re going to want to do nothing and again this is why i was talking about how this started making me think about life a lot think about that when it comes to life how many people are just drawn towards the easy path not doing what you’re supposed to do duties that you know must be performed but you neglect them yeah that’s that’s the difference between success and failure in life by the way did you guys say in the marine corps why why stand if you can sit why sit if you can lay down did you guys say that in marine corps similar what’d you guys say uh i’m trying to think of the phrase but it’s the same alignment of like why do this when you can just do that i can’t remember exactly what i said but when you as soon as you said that you were saying i was a little thrown off by the title because you said leadership versus inertia and i was thinking myself leadership kind of creates inertia and when he’s saying stan the people who follow like newtonian physics are going to laugh me out of the building but it seems like what he’s describing is the opposite of inertia sitting there doing nothing rather than moving in a direction yeah yeah or it’s the you’re you’re fighting to keep it going keep the inertia moving yeah uh he says there is no force other than a driving leadership to overcome this inertia yeah so he talks about inertia as the static being not moving this tendency to carelessness and to infuse a determination to succeed in the minds of the individual men when this spark of leadership is present the individual knows that others feel it too and that his effort is not alone however i was not a leader in this campaign so i will quote an officer who is a successful commander in an infantry regiment the wearer of a silver star an officer who has a fine reputation in his division and here’s what this officer says

this tell your people when you return that the hardest job they will have here is getting things done my men know their weapons and tactics thoroughly my effort is simply to require them to do the things they know must be done posting security dispatching patrols seeking a field of fire retaining their equipment and making sure that it is in working order you have to check all the time i believe it was patton that said 90 percent of your job as a leader is making sure that the orders get executed making sure that the things actually get done so that opening right there is what kind of made me just say i we need to talk about this because it’s it’s applicable so directly to us as human beings and you know i always talk about the um the gravitational pull you ever seen the chart of the gravitational pull of when the space shuttle or something launches i guess it’s not the spatial it’s it’s space x sure elon kicking those things up into space but they use whatever some massive amount of their power is to get the first whatever mile up that’s where they use 50 of them i don’t know what the percentages are but it’s a massive percentage of the power is to break free of the gravitational pull of the earth and once they’re free of it then once they’re moving they’re okay like so much of the effort of a leader is just to get things to go get things to move and we’re going to get to this there’s definitely some things here and we’re about to roll into them where it talks about you know so much reliance on the leadership and in certain situations you can see them leaning towards a micromanagement you know hey if i don’t make this happen but in other parts of the of this book they start talking about how the way that you’re going to win is through individual efforts and individual leadership so you get into decentralized command a little bit later but but i think it’s one of those dichotomies i think it’s one of those dichotomies as a matter of fact i know it’s a dichotomy that sometimes the phrase i used to use a lot and i use it a lot on this podcast was the force of will right hey you know as a leader i’m just going to make this happen there’s going to be a force of will we are going to win this thing we’re going to go this i’m going to make this happen and that’s what he’s talking about here this force of will that you have to exert to make things happen even things that people know they should do next section discipline so right out of the gate we’re talking leadership and discipline i was i was in there the keys to success in combat the key to success in combat commanding general in a personal letter to lieutenant general mcnair i would like to mention a few things i consider important in getting any prospective units ready for duty in southwest pacific the first of all requisites is discipline with a capital d i refer to discipline in all its phases water discipline malaria discipline personal appearance military courtesy the wearing of the uniform personal and collective sanitation carrying out orders in general assumption and proper discharge of responsibility throughout the chain of command etc there is an inclination for men as well as some officers to go native in the tropics to let down mentally on material and spiritual values so discipline is especially needed here needless to say i consider an aggressive offensive spirit always goes hand in hand with good discipline so that’s that’s one of those things where you know we’re talking about imposed discipline in some ways there right you make sure your weapons are clean make sure you’re cleaning yourselves makes there’s a there’s a whole list of things make sure you’re drinking water make sure you’re cleaning your feet isn’t that a weird one have you ever been in the law in the water or in the in the bush long enough to get like a really bad feet no i got i got a minor case of trench foot yeah and when the guy who is my swim buddy during this particularly long snr operation where we were a two-man pair out there just a training operation but he got actual trench foot he got he went to medical and they’re like oh yes you have trench foot it’s weird that things like that you know when you see talk to guys about vietnam one of the main things that the officers would do is check guys feet because they wouldn’t check on themselves so even something that seems so obvious like you’d want to take care of your feet people will not make that little extra effort the inertia for them is to say you know what i’m just gonna go to sleep with my boots on and they’re wet i’m not gonna dry out my feet and by the way you can sleep with your boots on i did we would we would sleep with our boots on the

field but we’d take our socks off we’d unlace our boots so our feeder and they’re just kind of loose so they can kind of dry out a little bit hang your socks on a little tree or something nearby but you don’t want to get rolled up echoes looking puzzled you don’t want to get rolled up in the field without your boots on okay that makes sense if you get rolled up in the field without your boots on you’ve got some problems to deal with i can see that btf tony you know you take one boot off you fix whatever you got to fix then you put that boot back on then you don’t take both of them off you’re just sitting there john mclean style basically naked oh yeah that’s uh a movie die hard the first he runs on the glass yes he wound up running over glass and how come he how can we get caught without his boots on because when he arrived at nakatomi plaza he at um a request another quest a recommendation from a friend you take off your shoes and you make fists in the carpet with your toes it de-stresses you so that’s what he was doing in the middle of this hijacking scenario interesting yep see there i was thinking that this book had knowledge in it uh next lieutenant colonel clifton f khan 77th field artillery in italy the great stress placed upon discipline and the chain of command is not an overemphasis and never can be we have found again and again that the highest standards of discipline are absolutely necessary in and out of combat in no other way can you be assured that the individual soldier will carry out orders without supervision and in combat this is essential so again we’re talking about very stringent discipline and we’re talking about imposed discipline i mean we are let’s call it like it is yeah but the connection he’s making is is what i was thinking as you’re talking that last passage it’s that connection to the imposed discipline that i’m going to start with that’s going to get you to recognize over time yes what you need to do the self-discipline you need to create and if your plan is like i’m just going to make my folks self-disciplined you’re actually going to skip the part where they learn why you have to do it and sometimes that starts with you’re going to do this you can ex explain it but you asked me if i ever had an emergent foot or trench foot i never spent enough time in the right an environment to have to deal with that but i’ll tell you my very first fortune forest march which is a five mile for smarts like a very short first march at officer candidate school in 1991 we stopped 50 minutes into it we all changed our socks that’s what we did and so that’s one example of but it was totally imposed on us but i was able to make that connection from these other people and so you’re telling the story about people that were non-combat ready because of that but those lessons are all over the place in the military and it all starts the same way which was sit down take your boots off change your socks and then over time you make the connection of oh i understand why i need to do this so no i never had it but i was taught that lesson very early on yeah there’s um some sort of obvious religious overtones too of right of like taking care of your men’s feet right that’s just a powerful thing next the basis of good discipline one of our problems has been to get junior officers and young ncos sufficiently hard-boiled to exact from their subordinates and meticulous obedience to every order we must ingrain in all ranks the realization that orders are not to be treated as suggestions but as concrete facts calling for the utmost effort until they have been carried out so many people seem to feel that orders which are inconvenient or unpopular are to be disregarded and this is this is one of those things it’s hard for me to read this because we’re always telling people look the military is not this thing where just someone barks orders at you and everyone just obeys which it’s not this state of mind is a disease and must be eliminated so what what this section says or what this individual is saying and i don’t know if this is the same guy talking because it’s not broken out but then it says this then it says this on the other hand so we got dichotomy and elimination presupposes that all commanding officers and staffs take care that the orders they issue are consistent correct and capable of being carried out so so that that’s a very a very discreet way of saying if you give me an order that’s not consistent not correct and not capable of being carried out i’m not going to follow it that’s what that says they do it in a very roundabout way they’re very cautious about how they said that because they know they had colonel pogue in the room when they were writing this yeah and colonel pogue said these better need to listen because colonel pogue comes up with the best plan every time master your job lieutenant general walter krueger

discipline and and the leadership of small units are the things which require constant emphasis the enlisted man or officer who does not follow instructions and orders implicitly during training or prior to reaching combat areas and who cannot do everything every member of his unit might have to do is not properly qualified the squad leader must know exactly what each member of his squad should do in each type of operation the platoon leader should have the same knowledge concerning his squads and the company commander of his platoons officers must not start worrying about the big picture until they have mastered all the details of the little one it’s an interesting one i can tell you right now that it would be impossible to know everything that the sniper knows it would be possible to know everything that the radio men knows it would be impossible know everything that the point man knows it would be impossible to know everything that the breacher knows do you need to understand them yes should you be able to set up that breaching charge and clack it off if you have to absolutely should you be able to pick up that radio and make comms if you have to where it might take to communicate it may take the radio men four seconds to do it it might take you three minutes should you be able to know how to do it yes at some point if you’re worrying about the details of the little picture you might be doing a disservice by thinking too much about the little picture not enough about the big picture so i think officers should start thinking about the big picture from day one and understanding how things fit together now you can’t get lost in that but you gotta you gotta start thinking about it early otherwise your habit is just worry about the little things your focus becomes looking down and in instead of up and out so little that one’s too strong for me too strong for me and i talked about that in leadership strategy and tactics like you kind of know what to do but there’s a there’s like a very discreet place in the military where you go from being tactical they call it operation but where you start being strategic in in the marine corps it’s called being a company great officer which like a junior officer brand new lieutenant to a field grade officer yeah and all of a sudden there’s this magical moment that when you get promoted from in the marine corps it’s captain to major and if it’s in the navy from lieutenant to lieutenant commander well all of a sudden overnight you are now a field grade officer and you’re supposed to think strategically and this transition point actually is a big source of friction for a lot of folks and the people that struggle the most going from company to field grade are the ones who have never thought about the big picture before and it’s not to say that as a second lieutenant that i’ve been in the marine corps for six months i need to walk into the ceo’s office and start talking strategy but you have to start thinking very early on about the impacts of what you do to the big picture and the sooner you can make the connection the easier that transition is and the longer you hold on it because it’s kind of like this cool bravado of like i’m a tactician and it sounds really cool and i just want to fly the airplane and i don’t really care about the big picture well when the time comes you get promoted and you probably will it was really clear the ones who never really thought about what they were doing and how that fit in the larger world when you made that promotion then all of a sudden you actually became highly incompetent at being a field guide officer because that’s when you were starting and you were being out maneuvered by guys who had been doing it since they were brand new officers yeah you know what’s really interesting about that is there are some people that have a personality and or skill set that is more suited to be a tactical officer and there’s some people that have a personality and skill set that is more suited to be a field-grade officer or a strategic thinker that’s and i see this in companies too you know i’ve worked with companies where the ceo that got that company from whatever position you know got them to go public or got them perched or poised to go public as soon as they’re going public that guy’s out of there or maybe even before they go public because this guy he’s good at making things happy dynamic but he’s not polished he’s not clean he can’t brief up the chain of command well he doesn’t articulate himself at the next level because some people can flow from talking to a platoon like listen up what’s going on like you you can be in that mode and you can walk turn around and talk to give the general a brief on what the impact on the cultural moments or the civilian populace and all those things some people can do both some people do one some people do the other and it’s very interesting it’s very interesting because you might not make it to field grade officer even though you you might be you might be good at it but you just don’t have the you just don’t have it you know you just don’t have it so think about that when you’re working with you know when you got people subordinates that you’re working with you might have somebody that’s not maybe the best tactical leader

are they can they do the job you know what i mean look they might not be able to do they might not be the best at it but maybe they can get through that job and they can do a good job as that at the next level up and some people they might be incredible at getting after it in the field and you can’t let them brief you can’t let them brief the boss because they’re gonna mess it up so so the good thing is if you’re if you’re one of these humans out there if you’re one of these potential leaders think about where you are and think about modulating your personality depending i can promise you if you watched me debrief a seal platoon and then you watched me brief the secretary of the navy the those two guys like the venn diagram overlap was pretty small if you were just to take the words that i said just a manuscript or whatever transcript of what i said the core things that i said the the i wasn’t saying anything different i wasn’t saying i wasn’t giving uh i wasn’t lying to the big boss and i wasn’t lying to the troops but the the method of delivery was different because of talking to a different audience who understands things differently good thing to think about a couple of these here trial by fire trial by fire there’s there’s incredible stories inside these books um about what men do and they’re definitely worth look this is another one from we read one from this last time this is from the uh the battle of the attu island which is those aleutian islands up in alaska fighting the japanese this is a citation the company led by captain thomas b o’donnell was thrown into confusion by the strafing of hostile airplanes while it was forming to attack under heavy enemy ground small arms fire seeing the immediate need captain o’donnell moved from his squad from squad to squad restoring order and then led his men to the assault during which he received a severe wound in the neck and shoulder and was evacuated three days later upon hearing that his company was again scheduled to make an attack he insisted upon returning to the fight although weak and suffering severe pain from his wounds he led his company in attacks on the enemy until five days later when he was mortally wounded while moving about in advance positions encouraging his men one of the one of the um one of the lessons that i taught specifically i taught it to a bunch of people but the first time i remember teaching at someone was to uh was to seth stone the delta platoon commander who you know when you’re doing immediate action drills there’s there’s standard operating procedures and you follow you follow those standard operating procedures and he would you know he would follow what the rules were and that if that meant that he was gonna his next position that he was supposed to go to according to the standard operating procedures was behind a berm where he couldn’t see anything that’s where he was going and you know i just said hey man why are you going there you know because this is where we’re supposed to go i said can you see anything no can you make a call no can you can you lead your men no okay move move around go see what you got to see you can move around you could you don’t you don’t you can’t break the sops there’s a difference right you can’t break the sops but you don’t have to follow them perfectly so there’s a big difference breaking the sops means you get out of your lane and now you can get shot by friendly fire not following the sops means you’re staying within the confines of the rules but you’re still moving around and telling people what to do and you can imagine this is the perfect example of what this whole thing started off with which is look this guy in order to get his troops to go he had to personally get out there and and you know why would you risk your life doing to in that’s what it says encourages men why would you risk your life to encourage your men you know why because if you don’t do that your men aren’t going anywhere that’s the breaking the inertia you talked about at the beginning exactly if you don’t do that as a leader you’re gonna sit there and you’re gonna you’re gonna eventually you’re gonna get rolled you’re all gonna die in that position you cannot stay there but the path of least resistance that human nature is i like this box hole yeah he’s gonna hang out down here this is good for me and he’s like no we can’t stay here and leadership is the only thing that gets people to see that that that is those are the times when you have to lead from the front you got to make things happen doubling in brass and i have no idea i don’t know if there’s some weird uh 1940s idiom that i don’t know about but this the titleist section is doubling in brass citation 37th division new georgia while private blair f hertz was performing his duties with the maintenance section in the vicinity

of the unit ration dump they were attacked by japs who had surrounded them he grabbed a bar and advanced on a jap machine gun that was delivering intense accurate and extremely effective fire into the dump private hertz was able to silence this machine gun and then continued to aid aggressively in the defense of the position until reinforcements arrived just getting after it just in the rear getting after it when a citation starts with a private you know you know this is going to be a good one you know he got some yeah you know what’s too bad is you know in the navy you have rates where you can tell what the guy’s job was this guy’s just a private but you know his job was probably you know well he says mate his duties with the maintenance section so this guy was changing oils and vehicles or something and then all of a sudden he’s grabbing a bar and just getting some here we go dichotomy of leadership oh no sorry this section isn’t called that it’s called something else it’s called be brave intelligently this is a weird one to read lieutenant colonel ari o’brien cavalry observer with the fifth army in italy a prisoner of war a german light machine gunner asked an interrogator whether americans took stimulants to make them foolishly brave when asked to explain what he meant he stated that he and an assistant gunner were in position with a good field of fire one afternoon when a group of american soldiers was observed approaching he fired several short bursts and began preparation to displace to the rear when he saw the american soldiers rise to full height and start charging toward his position over a hundred yards away he reloaded his gun and opened fire killing eleven men he then withdrew because he was sure the charge was made to conceal an envelopment but none was made unit commanders found it necessary to direct their men to make full use of concealment and covered approach continued emphasis on the necessity for dispersion and the use of cover and concealment is essential so this is what we don’t want to have happen we don’t want people to be so brave that you charge over an open area a machine gun nest and the comment here says in the interest of efficiency bravery must be supplemented by brain work dead heroes are of little further use to their units aggressive fighting men trained to apply the most efficient technique to combat problems willing to accept any necessary risks and conscientiously avoiding unnecessary risks are the backbone of the army got to be brave but you got to be smart there’s the dichotomy what was the original uh the original statement on that was brave but not full hearty brave but not foolhardy combat in towns as major campaigns develop in western europe combat and towns assumes increasing importance cities towns and villages control the established road nets which must be open for the movement of guns heavy equipment and supplies necessary to support the advance of infantry combat in towns will often be the key not only to our successful advanced but to successful defensive actions just talking about mount in 1944 attack of towns captain w.e harrison harrison parachute infantry italy the theory of attack of a small town or village is to work groups around the flanks cut the retreat and move in with patrols in this hilly country however we have found that where there is any high ground behind the town which dominates both the town and the line of retreat the best way is to work the entire force around the town under cover seize the high ground in the rear and firmly establish ourselves with 60 millimeter mortars on that dominating high ground we take enough food and ammunition for to last us 24 hours and the germans usually pull out during this time from our position we can prevent reinforcement and inflict heavy losses on them during their withdrawal so we’re flanking people and we’re taking high ground i didn’t think of anything new i didn’t think of anything new lieutenant colonel lg freeman parachute infantry battalion commander in italy we learned at alta via to avoid the direct attack of towns it’s too costly we now work around to the rear with a large force and seize the dominating ground in the rear we did this at kallo machia fornelli and several other places the names of which i’ve forgotten i like it when you’re just forgetting major battles that you’ve had it worked every time get yourself within 60 millimeter mortar range of the town on dominating terrain in or near it and the germans won’t stay in it and then it says this here’s the comment

i like these comments the fact that the germans had been known to withdraw without a fight from towns in the rear of which we hold dominating terrain does not necessarily mean that such will invariably be the rule however this possibility plus the fact the caesar of such high ground will greatly facilitate any subsequent attack on the town proper suggests that commanders should give serious consideration to these tactics where the terrain permits it also should be remembered that if such high ground is held by the enemy our attack on the town proper will invariably be costly and the town itself untenable that’s how important high ground is in planning the attack of a town proper the following considerations should be borne in mind one reduced observation and limited fields of fire in place of heavier stress on close combat so you are going to get some to controlling of attacking troops will be difficult and much depends on individual initiative and aggressiveness of small unit leaders so there you go we we we opened up talking about how you better follow all these orders and now we’re on page eight and we’re talking about hey you know what it depends on the initiative of initiative and aggressiveness of small unit leaders making things happen where possible towns should be bypassed isolated and attacked from the flanks or the rear why are we even attacking this position if we don’t have to roll around it imagine if you made that part of your everyday sort of scheme of maneuver i can beat my head against this wall or i can walk around it it seems like a good idea at least it seems like a good idea to me i don’t know echo’s over there shaking his head a lot of times when you say every you know you use those what do you call those words that are real like real permanent yeah like do that in everything you know every time you say that i think i just triggered id i took some i took some heat off of it by saying it seems like yeah that would be a good thing to do and part of your everyday plan yeah yeah then that’s what kind of triggered me though to think like of all the things that it probably or maybe wouldn’t work yeah i don’t know would you treat your workouts like that let me sidestep this workout maybe flank it you’re on dangerous ground right now yes sir you’re going at it you’re potentially right about that one i’m just saying usually when it comes to workouts i’m to smash the workout let’s face it you know i’m going to go ahead and full frontal assault yes sir well i i would think so anyway unless i may guess it depends on what you mean by flank like i guess you could flank your initial feelings about the incoming workout if you don’t feel like doing it you know you could maybe maneuver that way maybe but maybe maybe not i don’t know maybe just direct assault work out smash it get it done i like it there are times there are times so maybe not everything in life you know maybe not everything yeah but maybe if you’re dealing with other people it’s a good call yeah that could be the case uh this section here starts talking about like how you actually clear towns and it goes through and then it gets to a point where it starts just telling the comments about the story so i’m not going to dump into the story i’m not going to go deep into the story here but just some of the comments here about the defense of a town the defense of a town must be prepared to meet the methods of attack which may be employed by the enemy since this must include the possibility of flanking attacks and encirclement it follows that an all-around defense must be the rule the following points not covered in the experience quoted above which is the one that i didn’t read which is why you should read these things yourself should be born in mind in planning the defense of a town one avoid if possible placing principal centers of resistance close to landmarks or at the edge of a town where the enemy adjustment of artillery or mortar fire will be facilitated positions either outside or within the town should be chosen and i read this whole section to read this and it’s something that we talked about the other day on ef online and i don’t know you were if you were on the call and i talked about don’t give away your position yes yeah totally i went into a whole a whole explanation of not giving away your position and it’s weird it’s a weird thing to talk about because it seems real sneaky yeah right it seems real like oh it seems real sneaky especially when people love so much to talk about like being transparent but here’s the deal if you have an idea dave and i have my own idea if i just put my stake in the ground and say my idea is this i’m giving away my position now if we were going to go attack an enemy outpost i would do everything i

possibly could to avoid giving away my position because once i give away my position well now you know where to attack me on so what i would rather do is listen to what you have to say here let let me understand what your position is because then it allows me to maneuver and change my position and also if you’re an offensive person and your ego’s out of control as soon as you see my position get guess what you’re going to do attack it so i gave you my position now you’re going to attack it now what do i do then dig in now what do we have a standoff we have extra casualties we don’t need so why am i giving away my position when i’m having a conversation and this is it’s one of those things it sounds so manipulative right but then i took it a little bit further on the ef online i said this is the facts the reason i don’t give away my position is because i don’t actually have one i’m not rolling in there thinking that i know everything i’m thinking i may have some ideas that could you might be able to calculate and estimate approximate where i am but i’m not going to go in there and say dave i believe this because not just because i want to hide it from you that’s not why it’s because i actually question my own beliefs i actually am not looking at you thinking i know the best thing to do i’ve got some ideas but you can’t lock down my position because i’m not gonna stay there i’m not digging in being transparent this authenticity doesn’t have to be in opposition to what we just described either being transparent could be hey i’m going to i’m going to have a conversation with tell you a whole bunch of things that i’m thinking about that are things for you to consider as well for me maybe thinking what i don’t want to do is sit here and go hey you’ve mentioned three things that i really feel like i want to give you feedback on but i don’t want to tell you those things for whatever reason being transparent is not the same as digging your heels in those the authenticity of that there’s this you would know this echo there’s this social media thing where like somebody says some statement it’s like a meme and then it says prove me wrong it’ll say like martians colonize the moon prove me wrong or louder with crowd or situation whatever i don’t i i i should know more about it i know that you probably know enough but there’s this little what kind of underneath that is this idea like you’re not going to change my mind i know that you are not going to change my mind i’m being fully transparent here this idea of transparency doesn’t have to be the opposite of what you just described you can be fully transparent and if i actually my relationship is strong enough with you you know what you’re going to do when i’m being transparent you’re going to listen to me and then you’re going to come back with some things oh that’s a good point and then actually together what will happen is we’ll come up with the right plan and then we’ll go execute it and it’ll be awesome yeah the idea of not giving away your position you don’t give it away not because you did not cause you’re hiding it it’s because you’re truly don’t don’t know you don’t lock yourself into it yeah so i’m not walking into conversations i know i know what to do i’m not doing that and if you if you’re in a leadership role if you’re in an actual leadership role how much do you think your people really want to engage with you if you announce your position out of the gate like what’s the chances of them giving you great feedback being transparent yeah yeah how does that encourage transparency from the troops answer it doesn’t well and if it does hey dave that sounds like a great idea i fully support your idea you’re so smart yeah which is the last thing you want as a leader to be told how smart you are by your subordinates you want to be told hey i don’t agree with you oh great tell me why where practicable form salience by organizing outlying buildings to cover perimeter of town with flanking and unfilled fire i had to look up the word salience because i didn’t know what it meant it’s like a little projection that’s sticking out of the battle line so you in order to get a little better cover you can you can take an outlying building and you can set up a kind of a fort there the noun a salient yeah form salience because there’s a word salient right yeah it means like significant or what does that mean i think it’s like a clear point yeah which is the the other it’s the same thing right a clear point well here i am making this it’s like a projection it’s a point something that sticks out but that was a salient point yeah meaning oh yeah that was a good point i understand what you said oh we built a salient out there oh it’s a little point where we’ve got the solid coverage kind of like monolithic kind of the same deal yeah i guess kind of kind of the same deal like there’s a there’s a monolith which is the noun version of monolithic

kind of kind of thing yes there are all kinds of words that are based on other words hey i’m just trying to understand this whole deal every once in a while echo says something and then once he says that he writes down a little note and that means he’s going to go back and edit himself out i don’t know if that made the list i think he’s going to hold it i think he’s going strong no hey may that’ll probably help some people as far as as far as salient in salience goes yeah and and also help people realizing that there are multiple versions of the same words in the world yes it’s true i’m a jerk in addition to a central reserve within the town provide if possible for a concealed mobile reserve preferably strong in armor to be held outside the town to counter enemy flanking maneuver and once again what is the root of that right there don’t give away your position the root of it is hey hide this element which is smart keep it mobile wherever adjacent terrain features dominate the town they should be secured obviously this use of high ground may be key to successful defense that’s funny they say dominant terrain and then they just call it high ground within the town the construction of street obstacles or barricades to impede enemy movements and the organization of groups of buildings into strong points should be carried out as extensively as time available will permit strengthen your defenses in delaying actions the defensive use of towns will prevent the attacker from determining the strength of the opposing of the forces opposing him it is not normally advisable to organize a town as an isolated strong point except under terrain conditions which prevent the enemy bypassing it so don’t stick a town out there on its own don’t stick anyone out there on their own unless the terrain allows it so then there’s a um i didn’t cover one of these one of these sections but this one when i started reading it and as i read through it i said to myself this is such a great example of simplicity and the way this this battalion attack happens and then the way it gets debriefed is all very interesting so i’m going to burn through this real quick mission this is a battalion attack in italy mission lieutenant colonel earl taylor infantry battalion commander in italy on october on 11 october my battalion was ordered to make a night march pass through the second battalion which was about three miles east of the italian town of guardia north of the calor river and seized the high ground in the vicinity of guardia we were then to continue the advance contact as we approached guardia our leading company made contact with the enemy at a and there’s a sketch that they go through this it enveloped with one platoon go stop by heavy machine gun and direct 88 millimeter fire from points e f and d and was unable to advance i immediately moved to the high ground so basically they get into a big gunfight and they can’t they can’t move forward and here’s here’s what i like i immediately moved to the high ground 200 yards north where i could observe the enemy position so right now we have observed happening getting on the high ground love that observe what’s he doing why is he observing well because he’s got to figure out what to do now he gets up in this observation position and he says the enemy had all of the high ground to the front and i could see it would be impossible to advance frontally so what does that mean now he’s orienting himself to the situation oh the enemy’s got all this high ground up here i can’t advance friendly so that was he to do so i decided to make a double development sending company i over the hill to the right and company k on a wide left envelopment contact was to be maintained visually so that there’s the action it’s actually happening so he goes through the oota loop in like four sentences which is totally legit yeah base of fire five tanks were available for the attack realizing that the tanks could not move down the road to guardia which is the only tank approach due to the streams and high mountains and because the enemy had 88s and armored cars at f i decided to in place the tanks along with my eight heavy machine guns and six 81 millimeter mortars as shown in the sketch results the attack was successful by order the tanks and other supporting weapons open fire five minutes before company l started its advance that is called cover and move we got tanks and and supporting weapons firing and then company else starts their move after five minutes 15 prisoners were captured 25 enemy killed our casualties were approximately 10 killed and 15 wounded which when you think about the assault on a you know in an urban environment you’re going to take some casualties and those are certain certainly some casualties but those are

not as bad as you might imagine going into a city when you consider the fact that if you don’t know anything about urban combat one enemy with a machine gun can kill dozens and dozens of troops the enemy strength as determined from prisoners was two rifle companies each reinforced supported by tanks armored cars and 88s along the road these prisoners stated that their force was so completely disorganized and demoralized by our volume of fire that and scheme of attack that was impossible for them to make a counter attack and regain their positions planning it took about two hours to make plans for this attack which was very carefully studied planned and coordinated it’s funny sometimes the us military spends months making plans for an attack and and he’s saying this took two hours but it was carefully studied planned and coordinated that’s what he needed was a solid two hours it effectively utilized the terrain features every weapon available to the battalion was used in such an attack maps must be pre-arranged with critical points and phase lines once the attack is started the basic plan cannot be changed it must succeed that’s an interesting statement and i the the word that i underlined was basic you’re not in your head dave like yeah my immediate reaction is must not be changed i get like an intense like oh but yeah you’re right the basic plan it doesn’t say we can’t change so rather than sort of get all excited that he says he can’t change anything is to he’s right yeah especially at night and when you look at this whole situation you actually want to limit the amount of replanting and recoil you want to limit a lot of things now not the individual actions of the teams of maneuvering and things like that and let them make the adjustments but you don’t want one element to go you know what let’s cancel the envelopment and just do something different and abandon your portion of the plane you actually can’t do that so you actually need to keep the basic plan that that clarity actually made a lot of sense yeah that one word yeah that one word makes a big difference when you start thinking about what they’re doing you’ve got what is it eight heavy machine guns since those guys are doing a fire a fire mission on this town for five minutes before you enter the town that’s coordination you can’t start thinking well you know i think i’m gonna go early or whatever it is you’re the basic plan you got to stick with that basic plan then i i this is something that i lived by if i if it was possible to stick with the basic plan i was sticking with the basic plan like it would have to be something really now we would have a contingency plan hey but if i could avoid using the contingency plan i i would stick with the basic plan that we we that we rehearsed and we would rehearse the contingency too but yeah people expect what they’re going to be doing we had the exact same philosophy we we had contingency plans but the part of that that made that possible is our plans were usually really fluid some key limits you had some limiting decisions inside there but our plans weren’t hyper detailed and super down to the so you could stick to the basic plan we used to have just a joke stick to the plan that was what we always said like what do you do here just stick to the plan that didn’t mean you don’t think you don’t make changes but the idea that what we planned and how we coordinated stick to that and then make smart decisions along the way to reinforce that as opposed to you get halfway there and then hey you know what we should do we should come up with a new plan like there’s no time to come up with a new plan once you cross the line of departure you kind of need to stick to the plan the basic plan which also drove our plans to be basic we had very basic big picture plans yeah simple and flexible if you know if the three of us were gonna go and take down a building and we say okay here’s the way it’s gonna go once we get to the front door echo you’re gonna open the door dave you’re gonna go left i’m gonna go right and then echo you’re gonna go left and we go okay and we rehearse that 10 times i promise you that as we approach that building there’s going to be a civilian in the front yard that echoes going to have to deal with and all of a sudden that whole plan’s out the window so you can’t go to that level of detail and you definitely need to have flexibility there but the basic plan of hey we’re going to approach the building totally that’s not going to change because we know where the fire support is etc etc etc estimating the situation and planning should be emphasized in training comment and this was i found this interesting too this account is a good example of fire and movement on the battalion though i have no idea i guess i guess i got it from roger hayden why why i use the term cover and move instead of fire movement because of the same thing but i same thing cover and move and fire movement are the same thing this account at least as far as i know does am i am i missing something i don’t think so we used the term fire and maneuver yeah that was

the one element moves one element covers and i think it’s synonymous yeah yeah however it should be pointed out that a double envelopment is a rather ambitious schema maneuver for a single battalion and should be used with caution and i loved seeing that because what you’re talking about echo charles is you’re you’re talking about a double involvement you’re basically surrounding a target which means you got good guys on the flanks of bad guys and if you start shooting at the bad guys in the middle you can shoot yourself and it’s really problematic the the thing about this and there would be occasional seal platoons that would go yeah we’re gonna we’re gonna just surround the target it works when nothing goes wrong it works when the enemy doesn’t start shooting it works if you have on the positive side it works if you have a terrain feature that prevents friendly fire which is possible you can have a you know a ravine that allows you to be in a certain position but when you when you do these battalion sized operations you’re actually getting out of the you should be moving outside the range of your own weapons which is what the goal is right you know we’re really far away and and as long as we are shooting our weapons at the enemy there’s a very small chance that our weapons are going to hit our friendly forces so be very careful about double envelopment and same thing with going to uh enemies rear like if you’re going to do that well then you’ve got to pay attention to how that’s going to work out it is a lot harder than it looks no mention is made of the constitution of a reserve force such a reserve must be retained under the control of the commander to enable to counter unforeseen enemy reaction as the attack progresses troops committed to a plan of action cannot be considered as available for this purpose the division of the battalion into into approximately three equal attack forces is open to criticism but it worked in this case a schema maneuver should include a determina determination of the direction of the main effort and the preponderance of the force should be available to support this effort here’s an interesting story so one of the great tactical lessons learned of my life which i learned in training when you so we would set up you know to to do target assaults typical is any army manual any any marine corps manual how you do a target assault you know you set up a base element and a maneuver element so the base element is gonna engage the target it gets in position and it shoots at the target once it’s shot at the target for a certain amount of time the assault element then gets up and maneuvers towards the target when they get to a certain point the people shooting at the target shift fire off the target but they keep shooting and eventually they move the assault team moves through the target and i was watching a young junior officer i was in training at seal team one and he he said okay what we’re gonna do is for our base element that’s gonna do all the shooting at the target area what we’re gonna do is we’re going to take our machine gunners from the other from the assault element who has to move we’re going to move the machine gunners into the base arm we’re going to take some of the riflemen and put them in the assault element so they can move easier they can get through the target and i said i was thinking to myself that’s pretty smart smart guy is going to get a really strong base element vietnam vet said what are you doing he said well you know you know master chief i’m going to go ahead and put heavier stronger bass over here and the machine got a helmet and i put all my machine guns over in the base element and i’m like i can already tell i’m glad i wasn’t coming up with this plan but why is that you know he says well because i want to have more machine guns i want to have more firepower in my base element and then the the master chief in one question said what happens if the assault element gets compromised on the way in end of discussion because now we don’t have any machine guns and and by the way what should happen is if we have machine guns in the assault element the assault element just became the base element that’s what just happened so and and the thing that the other lesson that i learned from that was that what you really get to do the other benefit which i actually would say is an even bigger benefit is we have unit integrity which i love unit integrity that squad or that platoon is always working together the machine gunners are there they can break off they can assault things they can do they can do all kinds of things where when you pull those machine gunners out they’re not they’re way less capable so apply that to your business to your team how do we keep the teams together how do we keep the teams together how do we keep them both how do we keep them most capable that’s what we want to do

setting up little specialty moments is a risky call factors contributing to the success in this attack were prompt estimate of the situation by the commander including a study of the terrain based on personal reconnaissance development of a definite plan of maneuver based on the seizure terrain and outflanking enemy positions detailed planning of specific orders utilization of maximum firepower where available maintenance of control over the elements a little section here on fighting in wooded terrain lieutenant colonel f l walker infantry battalion commander italy the area in which my battalion operated was covered in thick scrub trees and fruit orchards interspersed with frequent farmhouses many stone walls six to eight feet in height and numerous sunken roads field of fire was greatly restricted average observation was only 50 to 100 yards enemy delaying groups with machine guns were widely scattered and impossible to locate until arrival within a hundred yards or less it was found necessary to place heavy weapons out in the front line or very close up to avoid hitting our troops after encountering hostile fire it was found very effective to spray the entire woods ahead with a massive concentration of mortar and machine gun fire for about one minute followed by a rapid advance of rifle platoons under assault fire to cover all the trees and house windows where snipers might be hiding in each case germans pulled out rapidly leaving weapons and ammunition behind although we had been unable to locate them previously however the tendency of troops is to wait for definitely located targets before they will open fire which results in allowing very small groups of enemy to shift position frequently and keep up a demoralizing rate of machine gun fire to cause a great delay the continuous rapid fire delivered by our heavy machine guns had a particularly demoralizing effect on the germans the remarks of this battalion commander emphasized the importance of barrage covering fire the fire power of available weapons in this instance substituted for an artillery barrage but the principle remains the same covered move losses will be minimized by following closely the massed fires of available weapons delivered in areas from which enemy fire is expected i think the enemy might be there i’m putting rounds into it and isn’t it interesting how that one dynamic think about that learn that lesson learned of realizing hey what we need to do is lay down heavy fire wherever we think there might be enemy and push forward as quickly as we can think about that lesson like think about the first time it happens the first time it happens like oh where are they where are they no one’s shooting and then someone goes hey put down fire and advance and guys start laying down fire and they start laying down fire where they think there’s enemy and then that allows you to get the enemies heads down because they are somewhere out there and you get their heads down and now you’re maneuvering and when you’re maneuvering they’re not and now you win but can you imagine that that’s a little bit off of our instinct right as a human if you don’t if you don’t if you don’t get trained that way your instinct is not hey i’m just gonna shoot where i think there’s bad guys i’m gonna shoot in that little dark corner over there i’m gonna shoot in that window over there i’m gonna shoot near that stone wall over there you haven’t seen one enemy but that’s where you’re shooting and now you have a whole company of soldiers doing that that’s a lot of firepower going downrange and it allows you to move because somewhere in one of those positions there was enemy but think about what it took to learn that lesson and how valuable that lesson right there is to be able to tell people and it also talks about the importance of speed which is the next note regimental commander infantry sicily i believe that the individual soldier now realizes that a relentless steady advance saves casualties and that he is now imbued with the knowledge of the importance of speed every man in this regiment is firmly convinced that the speed of our recent operations saved us from huge losses down to the lowest private the feeling exists that we would still be at kanasady if we had not pushed the enemy off balance and kept him that way you know how often are we sitting there waiting for the perfect plan the perfect whatever when what we should be doing is moving right you you want to just bring this down to working out echo charles since that seems to be your main you know topic for the day all right yeah cool yes so let’s look at two options one all right what i’m gonna do is i’m gonna go and research on the internet you know what the max time under load i need to do for this particular workout right time under tension right but come up with my periodic periodicity periodization

my periodization for my workouts right all these things that you could spend two hours researching and then writing and mapping out or you could go do a bunch of cleaning jerks just go yeah there is an advantage to doing cleaning jerks look i’m not saying you got to be an idiot no no but there are some some positive things to just going yes and keeping moving and firing where you think it might hey i don’t know about the the the the um the internal bicep head or whatever the brachial head of the bicep which i know you probably got some little high tuned exercises in short hands yeah there you go so you do certain types of curls with the easy bar to hit that target right yeah whereas you could just say hey let’s face it go do some curls right yeah yeah actually you’re right i actually agree with you hundred percent i agree with that philosophy in working out yeah i mean there’s a couple of things you want to know otherwise you’re just kind of you know moving around with with no specific direction which i you know teach their own but yeah i i think that actually is a very good analogy you know you see you sort out what am i trying to do here um get a few basic methods on try to you know how to achieve it and just go especially when you start coupling that attitude with the fact that we don’t want to move in the first place right that inertia is we’re just trying to stay still and now we can we can we can focus on that by just doing a bunch of planning like hey i’m just waiting to see where the bad guys are i’m just waiting no freaking lay down fire that’s that’s the way you wake up in the morning you wake up in the morning saying i’m gonna put down fire yeah that’s what i’m gonna do that’s a good plan yeah very good plan yeah you’re right about that too how you you’re like oh wait what wait let me try to remember what i was gonna do today and be like well i should maybe i should do this because tomorrow i’m gonna do this so maybe i shouldn’t do this you know i shouldn’t do it that hard or in you know and you spend all this time and then it’s like well shoot if i do the whole workout now shoot dinners like in like 45 minutes so maybe i should i don’t know i’m just saying depends on when you work out i guess sure you know not in your case for sure maybe a breakfast or whatever but yeah then you’re like oh that’s 45 minutes that only gives me like 10 minutes to like or one minute to warm up and maybe man i might as well just do this tomorrow that way i can get the whole thing done you see what i’m saying and yeah bro that planning not only did it not a lot of that not matter meanwhile weakness is winning in your body meanwhile weakness is winning man and then there’s that to avoid yeah is that i think it was you who talked about i don’t know whatever but yeah when you let the weakness creep in you give that weakness a precedent you know so the pres the weakness is sort of like oh yeah i kind of approved my my my presence kind of thing i was talking about this on ef online the other day i i i’ve been doing this lately in my head so and i haven’t quite figured out what this means but i know it’s been very functional when you have like uh an option of doing a bad thing or just not doing the bad thing that reaction of just not doing the bad thing isn’t strong enough i’ve actually been trying to do something good okay does that make sense i think let me explain again so example oh there’s a donut over there you know what i’m not going to eat the donut that’s not strong enough not only am i not going to eat the doughnut i’m actually going to go and do 20 burpees yeah and you know it doesn’t even have to be extreme because guess what you you’re we’re working or whatever and just like i just want to have a no no i’m not going to eat that doughnut and you know what i’m going to do i’m going to go and uh get my desk cleared off right now yeah kind of on top doing something actually proactive right to crush yeah to crush that weakness weakness that’s wanting to grow it’s just it’s like if it’s like you know if i says hey echo uh heck oh you know you you wanna you wanna come by my house and and and grill up some steaks and let’s say you don’t really feel like doing it and so you’re like well you know what i mean i’m gonna pressure you but if you’re like negative i’m already doing something i’m like okay that case closed right case closed you already won yeah so i’m just saying going a little bit harder at the weakness yeah there’s a little trend i’m in right now yeah and that and that works i mean it depends on what you mean by works but that’s a good move that’s like yeah you know like yeah i’m about to um like okay i have i have burpees at the end of this workout i finished the work a workout with 100 burpees we’ll say i’ll be like man that workout was pretty solid you know i don’t know about those burpees you know let’s let’s we’ll do those burpees another time we’re going to skip the burpees this is what we’re going to do then it comes time to skip the property like you know what no 150

or 200 now yeah just for thinking that you know oh yeah you’re going hard on weakness yes i think that’s a positive thing i think you’re right i’m gonna start like this this ties in for me i’m gonna start laying down fire if i now i’m gonna start being even more proactive i start seeing weakness i’m laying down fire i’m putting i’m putting some mortar rounds on that stuff immediately would you write down dave i think we went so far away from whatever i’m not sure i can bring us back we’re talking about burpees and bicep curls bro you talked about bias before so actually there might be a little connection here if we think about it for a second you were talking about well you actually weren’t talking about bias i had the word bias in my mind um when we had a plan hey we’re gonna go in the building you’re gonna go to the the east stairwell you’re gonna go to the west and hey we that might not happen we might have to do something different we used to briefly get on missions these these general missions like hey all things being equal i want you to buy us to the south and if you know we get additional pressure you’re gonna be the element that biases to the south now look something may come up where you can’t do that and that’s fine you may go to the north go and let me know but our plan is that all things being equal we’re gonna bias in this direction which allows me to keep my plans like really general yeah that’s about as general as it gets yeah but it’s great and it’s but it’s it’s not completely like out in nowhere where you don’t have some idea but it’s like hey these are the things we’re anticipating and all things being equal i want you were you were we were talking about the um the inertia thing which has kind of bugged me from the beginning but i actually was thinking about as you were saying it is you know he’s talking about like the laws of physics whereas objects and at rest tend to stay at rest and objects in motion tend to stay in motion and the hard part is getting the the staying at rest and getting it to the motion like once you get the motion going actually it’s not that hard to keep it going it’s the friction of doing nothing and it’s that connection you you like you said i know you didn’t invent it but this idea of default aggressive this bias for doing something is the hardest thing to get which is the natural bias of doing something and when you made that comment about when i see weakness or i feel weakness the natural bias is oh no i’m not going to give in to that weakness i’m going to do nothing which everybody’s like that’s the win and you’re like no actually that’s not the win the win is not to do nothing is it better than eating a donut yes but we’re not here to just not eat donuts that’s not the game we’re playing over here the game we’re playing is just not to eat the donuts and he started the very first thing is leadership versus inertia it’s that how hard is it to get the movement to do something but once you have that bias that bias to maneuver and that starts it’s not that hard it actually gets easier every single time so that’s my connection to things you were saying and yeah i’m going to let you guys talk about what it is you talk about but that’s what i was thinking about is that what that bias really means to tie back to the very first thing that i kind of thought about was like hey what’s he talking about because i was thinking inertia is movement inertia is not movement it’s just the state that you’re in inertia could be doing nothing and that’s what he’s talking about breaking out of that and the bias to move uh which is the the most challenging thing yeah i talk about pushing a train you know and i was like hey if you’re gonna push a train the first getting that thing to start moving is the hardest part and you start pushing you push you push and it eventually starts to move a little bit and then you get to a point if you keep pushing that thing where you can actually like grab onto the railing and hang on for a second it’s just gonna keep going you started it when you were talking about blasting a rocket ship out of here exactly you can actually use 90 of your effort to get that and you’ll need you don’t need 90 you can coast the rest of the way once you break free of that gravitational force of like literally i’m just gonna i don’t i’m just on the train now yeah now look if you can just jump on a speeding train go for it but most of us most people have to actually get that train from a dead stop and move it yeah you ever see those guys uh roll up a frying pan like a like a piece of paper kind of thing i think that’s like the the method really yeah like you hit it like real hard at that initial and then it like heats up the molecule so it becomes more yeah i’m not mistaken unless i got tricked or something like that and it’s a one big trick but i’m pretty sure that you’re seeming to bring it to some sort of molecular level which i’m not sure about that was the explanation for real they’re like this is the trick this is how you do it you know what i do not know if you’re right and i do not know if you are wrong i’m gonna just leave it hanging and people will let us know and we will get someone with a frying pan

posting it and telling us hey echo charles is 100 right or echo charles the most likely outcome of this is neither of those it’s bro echo talking about frying pans when we’re talking about combat that’s the most likely these concepts are everywhere there’s only so much i can do to keep us on topic here echo i’m just saying if you can work with a frying pan bruh it’s good and rocket ships and whatnot it can work with like everyday stuff and i actually think echo is the premier example in the world premier example of in the world in the entire world of if you know the way broadly you see it in all things you’re seeing combat in a frying pan these ideas are everywhere for sure but there was uh the as far as feats of strength go there’s the ripping the phone book one yeah right i think there’s a little trick because you gotta like unbunch them or bunch up but your point is that that initial the initial break is the hard part that’s hard most of your energy so that’s where you use technique well well okay how it went was the cur the rolling up of the frying pan how how it’s explained is you hit it with that first force of the rolling action but you just can’t like you can’t hit one and then re-grip and hit another one it’s not like that you gotta hit it once and just keep keep going don’t let like the momentum stop because the molecules are still heated up for that moment it makes it more malleable or whatever that’s how it was explained to me all right we’re going to look up you’re going out on the limb i like it dude you got no problem taking risk i like the way you roll next one the herd instinct major robert wilson observer with the x division they don’t name the division in italy our troops echo’s taking a note maybe he’s concerned that’s getting edited oh you’re going strong today our troops showed a decided tendency to bunch up under fire this was observed on several occasions one prisoner wore a german forward observer for an 88 millimeter battery was interrogated concerning his technique of adjustment it seems he had been told that american troops congregated went under fire when he saw american troops advancing he would call for one or two rounds in their vicinity and observe the area where they congregated fire was then shifted to that area the prisoner stated that he conducted very effective fire in this way in several occasions on italy don’t bunch up not good don’t bunch up leadership strategy and tactics talk about this from my leadership perspective let the leader lead you don’t need to jump in there and crowd the leader everyone’s like getting there let me tell you my opinion it’s like listen to what the moss has to say if you want some suggestions give it to them don’t crowd don’t bunch up base of fire lieutenant colonel jm fan infantry battalion commander it was found that so long as japs could keep us ducking from aimed fire their position remained secure but once the jap was made to keep his head down and the americans could get to his feet and attack it was merely a matter of walking up to the position and tossing in grenades to make this possible require the coordination of fires down to and including the riflemen it is important that commanders and leaders realize this otherwise troops will remain down when it is not necessary it’s so amazing it’s so amazing cover move teamwork down to the lowest level yeah and i just said teamwork and guess what the next section’s called and i i did not look at this next section of teamwork we would have a rifleman point out a pillbox using tracer ammunition then a 37 millimeter gun would take them under fire with high explosives oftentimes a pillbox crew would attempt to evacuate to a safer place and the light machine gun would mow them down it interesting when we talk about teamwork and we talk about cover move the reason that it is such an incredible metaphor is because if you don’t cover and move you don’t win it’s as simple as that if you don’t have one element that’s shooting at the japanese while the other element is walking up and if you don’t do that you lose that’s what happens you lose if you do that you win if you work together as a team you win here’s lieutenant colonel tf bogart infantry officer italy one night in the vicinity of the battalion established an outpost line around the high ground to the northeast the city patrols were ordered up several roads leading out of the city all company commanders were informed of the dispositions the patrols went out before the outposts were posted a few hours later firing was heard at the battalion cp which increased in tempo and kept up most of the night soon reports were sent that sent in that german patrols were operating in front of the outposts i’m sure you all know what’s coming next morning it became apparent that our own patrols had been fired on as they attempted to

return to the outpost line comment the constant recurrence of such reports indicates the necessity for closer coordination of patrol activity with the outpost of with the outpost system positive steps must be taken to ensure that the routes of returning patrols are known to the outposts and that recognition signals are arranged blue on blue no one thinks it’s gonna happen no one thinks it’s gonna happen i never never even thought about blue on blues it was like such a it seemed like such a i i shouldn’t say we never thought about them but it seemed like such a foreign idea you’d think how could that ever happen the way i no one ever thinks it’s going to happen to them well that’s true they always know what happens but it always happens to somebody else some other team someone it never happens to them i mean that comment is like the common occurrence or the common debrief that we got on this thing whatever he said like how often they heard that same exact story notes from other arms there’s another one about just staying off the skyline right don’t give away your position i just had to highlight this there was a section about what it was like when they had an anti-aircraft versus when they didn’t have it and then the title of this section is absence makes the heart grow fonder and what it was like and and that what he says in here is that the rarely would the anti-aircraft actually hit a german aircraft that was strafing him it would rarely happen but when the anti-aircraft wasn’t there the german aircraft would just come down and just hammer free reign radio discipline first lieutenant ce plays air corps sicily flyers coming into the combat zone had no conception of radio discipline dave new pilots use the radio indiscriminately men returning from missions used the interplane radio unnecessarily which jammed up the band for other planes still on a mission comma failure to observe radio discipline is a major problem for both air and ground units in combat each individual believes his case is a special one not bound by established rules this tendency must be discouraged by positive action radio discipline is established to facilitate essential communications during combat and is not a peacetime play thing to be discarded when action is joined and this is this is task unit bruiser we were freaking awesome at radio discipline we did not talk on the radio in fact there would be operations where some some task units might use two or even three separate radio nets to coordinate and in task unit bruiser we would use one and it would be almost completely silent so yeah and how does this translate into regular life it’s talking all the time it’s not having discipline what the hell you say just feeling like you gotta throw in your two cents all the time and yes for those of you that aren’t seeing this on youtube i’m looking right right at my friend echo charles whatever african um you know when i talk i think anyway i don’t know i i could be wrong here maybe i’m trying to just support the point you know bring it down to the everyday level right off see i’m saying i think there’s a you have a lot of supporters out there at least enough yeah the radio discipline thing isn’t it weird too this this idea that everyone in combat each individual believes his case is a special one that’s such a derogatory statement and and you know what’s funny about that derogatory statement everyone that hears it thinks they’re talking about someone else like that’s not me but it is you you are talking and no one wants to hear you and what you have to say isn’t that important is that kind of like talking about your dreams with your friends no idea you ever like to you ever get your friend but i guess i’m about to have an idea no if i could you know when your friend is like hey i had this dream last night and it was about and and it’s not about you or nothing but it’s like this is just the weirdest dream aren’t you like bro who cares you know but if you ever find yourself telling whoever about your dreams yeah it seems like it’s so interesting it was just so bizarre and all this stuff you know the person was like bruh be quiet you know radio silence resounding metaphor complete captured documents big section about um upon searching the bodies they found a map of the second lieutenant and

dispatched immediately to the regimental command post by a runner next day the translation of this map which was returned to first battalion it showed the japanese defensive plan and proved very effective in eliminating japanese from that area when they attacked it not only marked maps but also documents of less apparent importance may furnish the key to enemy plans when combined with other information the necessity for prompt forwarding to hire headquarters of all captured documents must be impressed on all ranks and i’ll tell you why i wanted to bring that up because this is something we get told about intel all the time is you know hey look you might find a piece of paper that’s got the word purple on it and you bring that you know hey this is what i found on target that could be some code word that you didn’t know about it and it said wait you don’t know so whenever you think you know you’re wrong whenever you think oh that doesn’t mean anything you’re wrong and so when someone is talking to you and you think you know you’re wrong you don’t know they’ve got some perspective that you don’t know so listen to it listen to it i have to put myself in check sometimes when i’ll get asked a question like working with a client and someone will give me a question and i’m telling you i have you you i know you you have to experience this too dave someone someone raised their hand hey i want to know when it comes to cover and move if i’m working with another department and they don’t we already know where that question is going right there’s like a 98 chance that we know that they’re going to say hey this other department doesn’t care about me and they don’t really support us so what what am i supposed to do then just keep support we’ve heard that question we hear that question a lot i always have to put myself in check because just because i think that’s what they’re going to say doesn’t mean that’s what they’re going to say it doesn’t mean that there’s not some nuance to it it doesn’t mean that i can spit out some module about how you you know well you continue to support no no listen to what they’re saying don’t stop them from talking you know the the minutes i see this in group dynamics you know there’s a discussion going on and someone’s talking and someone else someone else in the group will will cut them off and this is another thing i talked about on ef online think about how disrespectful it is to cut someone off right like you might not say anything to me but if you’re talking and i just jump in cut you off and just just without regard just just start you know cut you off think about how do you consider that disrespectful echo charles yes sir i do most people recognize that that is disrespectful and so they try to stop themselves from doing it they can’t always control their egos they can’t always like let it continue and i’ll tell you i think being on podcast have you ever noticed when two people that have podcasts are on the same podcast they’ll let the other person talk and it sort of let the person complete thoughts because podcast is sort of an amplified version of if all of a sudden we’re talking over each other it’s just painful to listen to but then if you get someone that’s not really a podcast type person or heaven hasn’t done a lot of fun they’ll be jumping in and wanting to talk and and it makes it hard to listen to so to me i think that’s that’s enhanced my my my listening right because i if i have a guest on here and they want to talk it’s like okay i’m going to let them complete their sentence and what i’ve realized over the years is that when i let someone do that there’s usually some nuggets in there that i didn’t know about so i’m actually going to listen to what you have to say and the minute when i hear someone at one at you know we’ll be working with a company and you’ll hear someone say you know someone’s mid-sentence and boom gets cut off and overrun and here’s what i was explaining on ef online the other day we all recognize that as disrespectful but it’s seldom that we recognize the opposite which is when i’m listening to you i am showing you respect and you subconsciously know that like the the person that you’re talking to when you listen to them they subconsciously feel respected which is a good which is a great thing because we’re trying to build a relationship we’re trying to build trust and it’s incredible how this tool of listening is so powerful in increasing the trust in relationships that we can work to better together as a team and yet it’s neglected all the time because i think oh i already know what dave is going to say so i’m just going to bud in and start to tell him what i think well i am disrespecting dave contrary if dave is talking and i listen to him and i nod my head and say yup i hear what you’re saying and i let him complete his thoughts not only am i not disrespecting him i am respecting him and damn if you don’t see some just mayhem go watch the news it’s

insanity it’s total insanity not just the news casters themselves or the guests that they have come on for three minutes to yell at each other but you know go watch some you know two people in this day and age or five people or a hundred people arguing with each other no one’s listening to anybody why jump into that bar fight right this is a verbal bar fight which i obviously can escalate into real fights and real problems nowadays we’re seeing all kinds of mayhem out in the streets and that mayhem is being caused by the fact that no one’s listening to each other and it starts with the disrespect of i’m not gonna listen to you and by the way when you when i cut you off and then you try and cut me off back what’s my response i get louder yeah and then you get louder and now we’re escalating next thing you know we’re throwing punches next thing you know we’re hucking bottles and bricks and shooting tear gas and we got a real freaking problem because we don’t listen to each other yeah the a lot of times though when well when i witness that or see it or whatever i think anyway it comes not necessarily overtly disrespect but it’s almost like an absence of respect because more like they’re just distracted or maybe just focused on their own like what they have to say or their own significance or whatever right so you said yeah because if i think i know what dave’s going to say i’m going to cut him off and that’s true and even if it’s subconscious it’s true you know because if i don’t know what you’re going to say and i’m like kind of curious i’m going to i’m going to wait to hear it you know but a lot of times people they’re either think they know what they’re going to say or they’re too eager about what they want to say right so it kind of a lot of times it comes back to like what kind of person you are you know so if you’re like hey everything that comes out of my my mouth is just gold you’ll probably interrupt people more like i tend to see that kind of pattern you know for sure and um there’s i will say the main time when i jump in on somebody is like i’ve got something flashing through my brain and i don’t want to lose it yeah you don’t want to forget it yeah there is that to you and yeah that actually seems like a legitimate like reason to interrupt sometimes yeah but it’s one of those things that i think like you said a couple times where it’s like oh yeah it might must not have been that important or whatever you know if you forget it but here’s the thing though there’s a little dichotomy on that one too what if dave’s over here talking like so much he said so many things that read like straight up required me to enter and be like hey i got to stop you there you know like that kind where it’s like hey that’s right i gotta stop you there you know kind of thing but i didn’t i just let him go meanwhile he left me with 47 things that require my rebuttal or whatever and i didn’t interrupt them it’s kind of like yeah that’s a challenge yeah but at the end of the day big picture you might as well just be like well at least i listened to dave and everything he had to say yeah i mean obviously we could break down start to break down the social dynamics of situations where you know you’ll have some disagreement with you now i will tell you i am much better off if dave is saying something that i disagree with i am much better off most of the time letting him say what it is that i disagree with rather than just jumping in and being like that that look it’s it’s disrespectful i’m clearly not listening to you right i’m cutting you off yeah so why am i behaving that way it’s not good look if you if dave wants to talk for seven minutes and rattle off you know like you said 47 points maybe at some point i go you know maybe at some point i say hey can i just can we can we kind of address these things one at a time because you’ve you’ve just said three different things and i’m gonna i’m gonna get lost in what you’re saying and and i i want to talk about that first thing i think you could do that respectfully yeah like you got to put effort into the respectful part of it like i can respectfully interrupt yeah really but if you’re just throwing out interruptions yeah it’s disrespectful there’s certainly different modalities of interruption that are that are you know wildly different from and you know what’s cool what’s interesting is when you are face to face with somebody you can tell when the person wants to say something right you can just look at their face and they they get a face and they have a non-verbal communication telling you i got something to say right now and if you if i’m if dave’s giving me that look res my my respect to him is to go he’s got something to say time to give him a moment yeah and the i think well i’m speaking from experience and i don’t have much but well actually no i do have a lot of experience listening to people talk but if you if you uh have a situation where okay the person is talking and they’re saying all crazy stuff right that kind of requires some correction or some interruption

right or some discussion at a minimum yeah so unless you guys are actively working on solving a specific problem we can which can happen like in work or in a family or whatever but you know how some people they just like to talk and we’re just having a friendly conversation whatever and they’re just blabbing at the mouth saying things that are just some are true some are not true and they’re just going on and on like they’re all all correct right and they won’t be quiet you might as well just not say anything because at the end of the day it it does you better to just listen to everything they said and you know what you know the old saying like yeah you don’t want to talk you want to listen because now you know everything you already know and then you know what they know kind of thing you heard that one yeah that’s that’s uh from this podcast as a matter of fact oh there you go boom so so it’s like that kind of situation you know like you’re not you’re not tasked necessarily to to effectively change someone’s mind every single time so you might as well just keep your mouth shut a lot of the time i mean let’s face it if you’re going to have a discussion with someone to try and try and consolidate your ideas together to become to come up with a the strongest idea then you have to converse with them and whether they’re a subordinate or a superior or a peer at some point you know in order to progress ideas you have to converse with them and just sitting there and remaining silent when people are saying things that you totally disagree with or to put in a better way you don’t fully understand their perspective then we have to uncover that perspective a little bit and you do that by asking questions and trying to figure out where they are coming from yeah you know i’m totally recalling a very specific situation recently where i was in the middle of this straight up argument debate social situation about political quasi-political things and i just witnessed just mayhem going back and forth i didn’t say anything and i was like oh yeah that’s just jumping into a bar fight that you’re not yeah but i’m thinking like hey either one of you guys could easily just be quiet and listen and not say anything for the rest of the whole time or whatever and this whole like we’d all be better off it’s kind of like one of those situations so i’m totally projecting that right now into this situation what do you write down dave dude there’s a lot there’s a lot in what you just said your thing that you’re just talking about when you’re sitting there watching these other two people and when you’re watching these other two people have like what is kind of like a ridiculous conversation where they’re arguing you’re just sort of the news or whatever and we’re all just sitting there as observers and it looks completely ridiculous to us as observers you see it escalating you see it going nowhere you see people digging in and when you’re just watching it it’s obvious how completely ridiculous it is the comment earlier is like that feeling that when we have something to say it’s different and this needs to be said remember that when you’re about to open your mouth somebody else is going to watch it and you’re going to look every bit as ridiculous to them as they did to you when you’re talking about listening and i have learned this in my life i have learned to have a bias to not talk i learned that skill i wasn’t born with that skill i don’t think anybody would accuse 20 year old dave of having a bias for listening that’s a learned thing that i have done in my life the trick there is what you have said a thousand times is you actually have to listen because of what you said before which is if i’m talking and you’re letting me talk and i think you’re listening to me i’ll talk i’ll keep doing my thing but the second i catch you the eye roll like the heavy breathe or whatever you’re gonna do i’m like dude this guy isn’t listening to me you actually have to listen and the only way you will truly listen to what the other person says is if in your mind you believe that you might get something out of it because if you think you’re like oh dude here goes echo he’s gonna just go do what he does and it’s gonna be a complete waste of time the minute i do that i’m gonna miss something and the actual listening part is a lot harder than it sounds because the conversation having your head which is i know i’m right all these points are wrong all these things are saying are just complete waste the active listening piece better come from a place of authenticity or you didn’t get found out in a second because your body language is going to give the whole thing away and then you might as well just cut them off right there because they’re not listening because he knows you’re not listening to me uh yeah there’s a lot with that and as simple as it sounds to listen if it was so easy we wouldn’t have to say it over and over again you’re all fighting the urge like to yeah yeah it’s hard yeah check a little section here about just just fraternization with the prisoners and and that they could not do that

which is the reason the reason i said that is because here these guys are they’re trying to kill you for me this is just shows you the the predominant spirit spirit of the american servicemen it says here it was necessary repeatedly to warn the troops against incorrect practice of fraternizing with prisoners and giving them cigarettes which interfered with the proper interrogation troops had to be warned not to remove pay books from the prisoners because these books furnaced a check to the interrogation officer of the prisoner’s statements in regard to his organization previous service so there’s just these you wouldn’t think that after these guys are trying to kill you that you’d want to give them a cigarette right and yet respect speed marching commanding general third division sicily the importance of physical condition cannot be overemphasized speed marching proved of great value and developing physical condition eliminating the unfit and instilling confidence and pride in the individual as a general training objective all units prepared for a landing on defended beaches and in advance inland of about five miles speed marching continued each unit being required to complete five miles in one hour eight miles in two hours and 20 miles in five hours once a week this training was largely responsible for the speed with which the assault of this division was executed there you go um physical conditioning it he points out this and this is so obvious instilling confidence and pride mean what a factor what a factor way the warrior kid books you know get a kid that doesn’t can’t do a pull-up right and all of a sudden you can do a pull-up you can lift your own weight you can stand up a little straighter and get your team working out that’s what i’m saying writing messages reports and messages major robert wilson field artillery italy the who what when where and why were often not contained in reports both oral and written battalion regimental s2s and the men themselves indicated that during maneuvers and in training problems they had thought that this subject had been mastered but that in combat it was ignored or forgotten as to clarity the axiom of a message can be understood it will be mis if a message can be misunderstood it will be misunderstood was well proven the comment here writing messages during a unit training program is one thing writing clear specifically worded messages and orders under combat conditions is quite another theoretical training in message writing must be supplemented by constant practice and supervision in the field that is why i was an english major so i could learn how to write a section here on dirt breeding infection half the evacuations from the battalion was due to infection caused by minor scratches and to that i would say get yourself some warrior kid soap so you can stay oh come on this is another one of those life ones a foxhole in time saves lives lieutenant colonel bogart infantry fifth army italy although the average american soldier will dig a foxhole or slit trench when the artillery or mortar shells are falling in his vicinity only a few of those i saw would dig them prior to that time when they did dig them they were usually quite shallow it was always very easy to tell a german foxhole from the american the former were always much deeper many casualties occurred from shellfire which i believe would have been avoided had proper foxholes or slit trench been dug in and this is you know the code the evaluation the protocol are you prepared for life emergencies are you prepared for emergency situations we as americans i totally agree with this we don’t like to worry about anything until it slaps us in the face in fact in the seal teams i used to tell my leadership no one worries about anything until they get slapped in the face with it like no one’s really concerned about that until you get hit with it and all of a sudden you gotta execute that mission and you don’t have the gear that you need so let’s get the gear we need let’s get do the rehearsals we’re supposed to do be proactive i can kind of go for little things too oh 100 goes to little things well yeah so these lit and these little things kind of so the other night i’m at home it’s bedtime go sleep right in the middle of the night here you know what that is right no idea

that’s your uh perimeter security your detector a fire detector with a nine volt battery that’s dead that’s dying exactly right and bro you think you can if you don’t have nine volt batteries at what three a.m and know where they are and know where they are yeah but let’s say you don’t have them straight up i mean let’s face it do you just have random nine volt batteries in your in your house yes i know exactly where they are i have two for each fire detector in my house here’s the thing i’m a father now so so do i oh yeah so do i but i’ll tell you this before i had kids before i had a thing life whatever that smoke detectors i didn’t have nine volt batteries just hanging around straight up didn’t have didn’t even think about it years oh yeah 100 i i guess my wife when she was growing up they they didn’t have batteries like you know the her mom and dad just batteries weren’t on the list yeah and so my wife is a battery hoarder and stockpiler you want a nine volt you want a triple a you want a double a what do you want open up that cabinet and they’re in there they’re ready bro i’m with you my wife’s the exact same she gets a little bit excited when the batteries run out on something oh it’s like hey the battery’s out on this thing oh hold on and she goes and digs out of ce2325 for my watch actually i think my watch is at 3232 yeah this was gonna say that’s the c3 that one’s i think that’s a scale you put that in one of those little scales it might be the well i don’t know either way yeah i don’t know either but i do know that i did have a nine volt battery that night but i was thinking to myself bro what if i didn’t have a nine volt battery brad no we’re not sleeping tonight you only you’re not sleeping then that and it doesn’t have to do just that night now you got the whole next day you got to contend with you see insane really very this is because you’re paranoid no a fire or that beep is bothering you the beep is going to keep you up i’m with you man that’s that’s because because i’ll tell you what happens it turns out that that fire detector that beeps every 60 seconds can’t be destroyed yeah you could take a sledgehammer to it and just break it without it will still beep so what you’re talking about that’s the slap in the face which is you’re totally unprepared for the situation now you’re up all night you think you solve the problem the second you get into bed lights all covers babe i gotta sort beep and then you’re up again so i’m with you it’s true i learned this lesson 30-ish years ago so i’ve got those nine volts at the ready yes sir yeah in in one time you know how i found that out that you can’t you can’t stop that thing i was like okay i was like yes no problem like i’ll just take out the battery how can it beat with no power simply can’t be can’t happen it’s not like you know where does it get the power to beep from where does that come from apparently they thought ahead you know in the case of a real emergency it’s one of those things and a little bit more important than your sleep that night if you’re unprepared you know so it made sense when i kind of thought through it but nonetheless i was still faced with this problem like this beeping lucky it wasn’t in the middle of the night but whatever so i was like yeah i got to do it i would’ve had a real problem that day but i had to put it in the drawer you could still hear it but it was just way more quiet so when i got a battery or whatever later on i found out yeah it can’t be disabled that’s the whole reason it beeps destroyed cannot can’t it can’t be bargained with either but yeah man nonetheless that’s the point it can go for small things too you see what i’m saying just be prepared how about this how about just keep some nine nine volt batteries all good problems beeps three am three pm whenever you all kill batteries batteries low you know are we good over there equitables with that all right let’s move on section three mountain operations they go through a big battalion attack here go into a lot of detail it’s another another from another uh perspective on the battle on the attu island and there’s there’s some detail there’s some maps and charts and you should go check it out online so you can kind of get the full benefit of that but i just wanted to hit a couple highlights and going back to communications here a rather elaborate system of communications was established to enable the battalion commander to control the fire of supporting weapons in furtherance of tactical plans the artillery radio radio as well as telephone was set up at the battalion commander’s op on top of the hog back which is one of these little terrain features a sound power telephone was run from the mortar op back to the battalion commander likewise one from the 75s the telephone was also run from the op to the officer in charge of all 37 millimeter firing radio and telephone control was run to all companies in the battalion so the reason i highlight that that’s a lot of communications and if we’re counting on all those communications we may not get what we we might not get what we want

goes into this here they get into contact we saw the first one at 0 4 30 in the morning he was a century and we were then 50 yards of him he stood up against the skyline and was shaking out a grass mat lieutenant brown motioned to us to get up a little under the ledge to our front and then he shot the jap the shot must have awakened others as we worked up over the ledge a jap machine gunner began firing at us we stayed down until the first excited burst had gone over then we raised up and returned fire several japs had holes near the edge of the ledge we were under and they began to throw grenades over but the hill below is so steep that most of the grenades rolled down and exploded out of range below us the machine gun was firing again but several of our men were close enough to to the ledge to lob grenades over the machine gun itself was out of grenade range but some of the japs near the edge caught hell from the grenades are you feeling lucky when the people that are throwing grenades at you they like bounce over your position and don’t hurt you i think that might have been my whole point there the radio fails so this is why i get concerned about about communications and as a former radio man it definitely freaks me out lieutenant brown tried again and again to contact battalion headquarters or the artillery and i’m fast forwarding a little bit or the artillery with the radio but the set refused to function the radio man worked with it and tried again but failed the platoon was reorganized and we started up again they’re assaulting this hill we got as high as the ledge once more and had started over the top on the table above when the jap opened up with machine guns again we needed artillery and needed it bad every time we stuck our noses up a hailstorm of bullets cracked across them the radio man was trying frantically to contact anybody in the valley below us but the set remained silent several men had crawled around to the left and threw grenades at the japs near the edge of the table but the machine guns remained out of range our men were driven back to the cover of the ledge with several wounds artillery if we only had artillery we could observe the fire we knew where the guns were if we could only get some fire we’d walk over the damn mountains the radio man was desperate he tried to set again but it was silent in a rage he threw it down the hill yeah so there’s a bunch of things to think about there just you know your communications cannot be relied upon you have to have some kind of backup plan and if you’re if you’re expecting you can be able to make communications when when they’re really going to be made needed that is the time they’re going to fail that is murphy’s law if you say okay dave here’s what’s going to happen we have this whole complicated plan and then when you get to this point radio me and that’s when we’ll execute that radio call has a four percent chance of making communications if everything hinges upon one call the weight of that hinge just just has carm karmatic is that a word a karmic karmic impact on that communication system and it’s not going to work great so their attack gets repulsed um he says he said we heard the guns in the valley begin firing the attack was on we had failed and we felt bad about it about it they had the drop on us they’re going through the main attack the japs were holding the pass on the high ground on both sides of the front two the ones on the right could fire into the backs of the attackers of the left and vice versa it was rough going lieutenant clevzy got me up and we went around the second section to get them started up the hill the attack was going okay but it was an awfully tough one bullets were flying all over the hillside just uphill from the second section was a jap 37 millimeter we had watched them fire from that position several days before and we knew there were japs in that trench the main attack was moving around to the left as we started up the hill finally the fire got so heavy that the machine gun squad took cover in a little draw until we could grenade the trench above us to clean it out then they were to come on up sergeant tom kovic private first class william marshall and i started up with lieutenant clevzy we had crawled on our bellies to within 25 yards of the trench when a sniper raised up and shot marshall in the air we shot at the sniper we threw grenades into the trench we crawled up rapidly then ready to move in behind our grenades and another sniper popped his head up out of the hole just above us lieutenant clevzy fired his carbine just as the jap fired lieutenant toppled over a little bank and lay still he was dead i was just bringing up the rifle as the jet my rifle as the jap duct then from across the valley the japs spotted us and they gave us hell machine guns rifles and 37 millimeter began pounding the area

finally the intense shelling slowed down and we dashed for the open end of the jap trench we had grenaded the trench led around to the point of the hill we crawled down the trench and found where the jabs were located when we stuck our heads right up in the face of a burst of machine gun fire some men from company f had come over to help us but were stymied we couldn’t raise up long enough to fire we couldn’t get close enough to throw grenades finally we decided to see if we could get some mortar fire on the position in some way corporal alfred heyman started back up to check on the mortar possibilities and while we waited and rested the jab position was slightly below us and about a hundred yards further into the pass they were firing almost constantly at the troops we could see moving out in the valley and on the opposite side of the pass we were quite high up on the side of cold mountain after nearly two hours of lying in the trench and waiting we heard one of the men behind holler here heeman up here he and a man from company h the infantry were caught crawling up along the little ravine laying wire they had found a company h mortar and had a line right to it the big fight up on the mountain had almost gotten to the top but the forces across the pass were getting hell from the guns below us we got the phone all set up and carefully poked a little dirt a little hole in the dirt side of the trench a week so that one man could see the whole jap position below then we called mortar and the fun started we were only about 100 yards from where the shells were striking and the ground shook they fired several rounds close and then they began to drop right into position finally we called and told them we were moving in and not to fire the position was like a big wheel was a big wheel like a fair with holes all around it and the spokes were connecting the trenches with a big center installation in the hub two japanese machine guns in the 37 millimeter that had fired at us during the previous week were captured and destroyed there we tossed six dead japs out the hole and brought them brought up our guns up and set them in the jab holes we there we sat that night just daring the little so-and-so’s to come up man what positions they had one little fight within a battle you know one little tiny fight within a battle and think of all those decisions that got made and all those actions that took place and the mistakes that had to be covered for and the initiative that had to be shown and the bravery and the courage i mean it’s just it’s leadership and that’s that’s what it is it’s leadership um they they go through a bunch of this information um continuing on they there’s another group that takes another point and again look these guys i can pretty much guarantee are no longer alive but this is these are quotes these are what these guys are saying happened um you know things like lieutenant walzack saying check your bayonets as they get ready to do this assault and there’s just so there’s some some other little battles within fights within battles that they cover and then it gets into this comment section these accounts bring out some of the characteristics of mountain warfare in which success depends more upon proper adaptation of available means to the terrain than upon their power so the wet the way you adapt is more important it continues maneuver of small units and the initiative and leadership of subordinate commanders are of the highest importance in mountain warfare the actions of small semi-independent units in seizing or defending heights in or in fighting to seize or block passes become of increasing importance so once again even though this book starts off with the extreme dichotomy of discipline of following orders it comes back always to decentralize command an individual initiative by subordinate leaders to make things happen he’s talking about mountain warfare there and and getting to this idea of i mean that’s it that’s leadership right it’s leadership is going to be the deciding factor here because the terrain is so it’s so impossible to predict there’s so many different things and places and outcroppings and all these different and even tell the story what great position they had in that previous example with

the japanese life is more like mountain warfare than it is there’s gonna be these big open fields of your life gonna just reveal themselves and you’re just gonna plan your your your move down down the road there are so many things that are popping up when we’re talking to companies right now they’re describing that same terrain in their business lives of all these unpredicted and unexpected things and it isn’t the strength of their brand and it isn’t you know the qua it’s the leadership that’s navigating these companies through and we’re talking about the terrain of mountain warfare that’s what life is it’s not just this easy straight road from a to b and you just march down and everything is is clean and how crazy that has to be that at every single turn something comes up and the tool the only tool that you have to get past that is leadership and you know what i like also about this analogy and the way it ties into the entire concept of yes of leadership but really even more specifically to ownership and extreme ownership and and that is this this is what’s so beautiful about this you can’t move those mountains you cannot do you cannot those mountains are what they are and that’s what that’s what what triggered that thought in my mind was you said um there’s all these variables but what’s interesting is you’re looking at them you know for days you understand you can see it on the map you can look at it there’s this mountain and you know what you can’t move that mountain and what you have to do is you have to move yourself and this is you know i talk about this in jiu jitsu when someone’s across the side on you i can bench press you an inch you know maybe two inches i don’t care if you have a 500 pound bench press when you’ve got a person that’s mobile and they’re they’re securing you and they’ve got your chest compressed like it you can’t bench press them off of you you can move them just enough then you have to move it’s incumbent upon you and so we can’t move mountains what we have to do is adapt what we have to do is figure out how to utilize those things and what the important thing is even though we can’t move those mountains the person that figures out how to utilize that terrain is the one that’s gonna win you utilize the terrain it’s something that i have no control over but i control how i interact with that mountain and i know where i need to be and i know i understand the angles and i understand what ravine will give me cover and i understand where it exposes me even when he’s talking about hey this the way the japanese were set up i was like oh they can hit these guys here in the flank and they can shoot these guys in the back that’s the position that they have that’s a freaking horrible situation to be rolling into horrible situation to be rolling into so when you look at things instead of sitting there and going saying i wish the market was different i wish the competitor would do something different i wish my employees would act in a different way these are all things that you can look at you can wish all day long just like you can wish that mountain moves but that mountain’s not going anywhere so you need to maneuver you need to take ownership of that situation and make things happen there’s a whole bunch of sections here engineer operations tanks infantry notes and jungle operations one one section here japanese centers of resistance were bypassed and isolated again how often do we say oh dave doesn’t like this part of my plan so i’m gonna attack him on that instead of saying okay dave’s gonna dig in right there cool i’ll maneuver around it right bypass i’m gonna start thinking about that a little bit more often in my daily life how can i bypass maybe not when it comes to working out because echo charles pointed out that might not be the best plan but if it’s things that i don’t want to engage in why am i engaging in them if i don’t have to if i can isolate and bypass and not make it part of my gig that’s fine frontal attacks were uniformly successful when assisted by a flank attack on many occasions the flank attack preceded the frontal attack coming into japanese positions from the rear and completely disrupting their defense plans in almost all cases the maneuver used by units of all sizes from division to squad was the envelopment of one or both flanks yeah resistance was made by resistance was bypassed encircled and reduced later so the frontal assault works when it’s not actually a funnel that’s awesome when you’re doing something else as well yes that’s so legit uh section on section on automatic weapons night operation security measures

security at night lines of communication patrol reports in general the distance covered by the patrols was much less than expected of them the difficulties of terrain caused by many patrol leaders to feel that they had covered two or three times as much ground than they had actually covered this must be taken to account when evaluating patrol reports these are people that think that they know like hey i was there isn’t that crazy you could be looking at me totally convinced that you went two kilometers and it turns out when we retrace your steps you went whatever 700 yards 700 meters one last section to cover here um yeah this last section is very interesting evacuation methods informal report solomon islands evacuation of casualties was by hand carry litter bearers cable litter slings across jungle gullies improvised sleds or drags down steep inclines improvised litter racks on quarter ton jeeps small boats on mountain streams or along the coast and finally by field ambulances to clearing stations or hospitals how’s that for a nightmare when you when you were in fallon did you were you ever a down pilot yeah yeah did you get carried out on litters yeah you got a helicopter you stage there and then they come out and get you like the metal it’s like a metal basket basically yeah the litter did you ever get carried by a seal platoon like eight kilometers no okay i know exactly what you’re talking about i was never the i was never the down air crew that got actually physically pulled right it’s not fun when you’re getting carried because you’re getting dropped you’re getting slammed you’re getting all over the place and usually we would stick guys with ivs you know or like we would try and do some medical training on them as well but good lord i want you to think about everything that i just said hand carry cable litters across jungle gullies improvised sleds drags down steep so you’re wounded and what’s the method of doing okay we’re gonna drag you down a steep incline improvised litter on a on a quarter ton jeep imagine that thing bouncing around small boats think about a nightmare and this is where you start to realize what a nightmare i’m talking about evacuation by litter bearers was difficult tiring time consuming and involved distances averaging two or three miles and five to six miles in some instances many more litter bearers had to be utilized than under ordinary conditions litter carry in many cases required as high as 16 carriers per patient over almost impassable terrain and can be counted as least efficient so it takes 16 people to evacuate somebody two miles or three miles where evacuation by litter was necessary bearers worked in relays eight or even 16 men accompanying each litter relieving one another in literacy and in cutting narrow paths through the dense jungle 16 people to move a wounded man i mean that’s just crazy and obviously it wasn’t all of them but they’re saying hey sometimes it was eight and i’ll tell you the reason i was asking you if you’ve ever been in that position number one you get beat up but you know when we would do desert training when i was running desert training man those guys would do some down man carries and i’m sure some of the guys that are hearing me saying that now are smiling with pleasant memories of going eight kilometers through the imperial valley desert carrying and eventually like the first you know if we had a uh a troop that hadn’t been through before or didn’t have any experience say oh yeah hey which i you know what’s your casualty evacuation plan oh we’re just gonna put two guys on them and we’re gonna do i forget today there’s some name there’s a couple carries you know there’s a standard fireman’s carry oh we’re just going to fireman’s carrying okay cool see how that see how that works out for you you can’t i mean it’s it’s you can do it for 100 meters 200 meters 300 meters 400 meters you’re on night vision you’re in the worst freaking terrain rocks shale rocks all over the place and it was great because as we would do these drills and as guys realized what a traumatic impact it was when you took casualties and how you had to adjust what you thought you’d be able to do

because you can’t just freaking rambo you can ramble somebody up i mean i’ve done it like okay grab a guy and i’m going to carry him 150 meters 200 meters by the time you get to that 200 meter mark like you’re when you get to the spot you’re just falling down with the guy 300 meters you’re just falling down and you’re exhausted and you’ve lost your weapon and your night vision and his gear is gone it’s a disaster until you figure out okay when this happens here’s well here’s some procedures that we need to do talks about the improvised jeep ambulances talks about evacuation by water physical fitness the arduous and fatiguing litter caring demonstrated the need for physical fitness on the part of medical department personnel which should correct the impression that physically impaired individuals can be utilized throughout medical department activities so this idea that you can have a bunch of you know guy that’s injured or hurt and have him working in medical being a stretcher bearer is completely and utterly wrong and that’s well that’s a a wrap on the highlights that i had from this and you know i i don’t know when i think about this whole thing and we’ve been referring back to it the whole time the so many good lessons but the the the the key take away from me is that whole idea of leader versus inertia and you know as soon as i said that today dave i looked at you and i saw you had about a thousand thoughts going through your mind on what that means and how many ways that we can apply that it’s like the world is conspiring against us and it’s human nature to neglect our duties and i know that sounds crazy and sure there’s some outliers out there that are proactive going to make things happen but you’ve got to assess as a leader that human nature is to be lazy and to be careless and you need to definitely look in the mirror because it’s not always just going to be the people that you lead it’s going to be you and that section where they talk about the hardest job that you have as a leader is getting things done getting things done by people who know that they’re supposed to do them and even in some cases know that those things can cost in their lives failure to do things failure to take action so don’t allow that be on the lookout how nice is it sometimes when you make the connection between something that’s there that you’ve always known was there but you never pid’d it and by that echo i mean positively identified like hey i know now everyone that’s listened to this today now knows that that’s a problem and and look we all kind of knew it right i mean i talked about it disbelief’s freedom field manual hey you know we’re gonna want to move like that’s that’s a real thing i get it we all kind of get it but how about a pid on it and now when it starts happening either with you or with your team or with your family or with your friends you can p id it and then you can address it properly and you can start with yourself you can start by making things happen speaking of making things uh happen echo charles yes how can we do what we’re supposed to do what we know we should do on top of pid we pid it oh yeah yeah same thing with complaining right remember we pid that long time ago complaining uh blaming another one yeah those are two those are two good things once you recognize once you pid those things man that blame one oh yeah because if you don’t pid the blame it’ll like sneak in away with it too really it’s great oh yeah you can be like yeah hey yeah i really shouldn’t have done that you know it could have helped you know if you would have gave me the heads up or whatever but you’re right i shouldn’t shouldn’t have done that did you see the blame that stupid mountain was totally blocking our position yeah kind of make it makes it kind of harder but no you’re right i should have done it you see i’m saying see me taking ownership but slipping in the blame you pid the blame you can see it that’s what i’m saying anyway so don’t do that when you’re um working out which okay so i worked out today actually no no i thought about working out today but then i got into this deep conversation with my wife okay about some important stuff the window closed the window totally

closed oh it closed it straight up closed yeah cause the conversation went long i had to come here you see what i’m saying yeah i had a window closing last night it was i had something my wife was making dinner i was like i can fit in a run right now before dinner oh a late workout no just a run i already worked out the run’s not a workout so late night so i my wife was cooking dinner i had like a 40 minute window my wife says oh by the way someone’s coming over to grab something i’m like okay the run’s not happening now the windows just i’m kind of i’m kind of shrugging it off like oh well you know window closed you know no run but then i pid it and i said you know what i ate dinner which i hate i ate dinner and then i ran just to punish myself i pulled one of those before brad that’s that’s so true right there so that right there what you just did what you went what you what you experienced same deal right you got the 40 minute window or for running right because you got it all planned on your head it goes beyond the run it goes like the stuff you did before is in your mind stuff you’re gonna do after the run dinner all this other stuff and the stuff after that in your mind does not include the run because the run is already done that’s it this whole formula right there in your mind yeah so now that little window closed boom where’s that run gonna fit in i already know in my mind what i’m gonna do after dinner which is after the run which already happened right what i’m doing put the run there no it’s already occupied in your brain you see what i’m saying but the thing is it doesn’t work like that you put it there as as essentially like an excuse yeah yeah you know what’s crazy i so as i was running so now i’m running 20 minutes after i get done eating i don’t think i’ve run on a full stomach for 15 years think about that 15 years i don’t think i and i don’t think i’ll run on a full stomach again for another 15 years because it felt freaking awful and i don’t roll i don’t work out on on a full stomach i don’t like doing any of that i can get away with like a workout depending on the workout i’m not squatting on a full stomach because that’s just not good but maybe i can do some pull-ups on a full but yeah i was running on a full stomach i won’t do that again i i would next time because i wanted to you know like eat with my family you know that like let’s eat time i would have eaten one fork full of food and then not eaten and put it in the and then go for it hang with the family go for a run come back yeah that would be the power move and that’s actually one of many power moves really the other power move is how about this yeah good for you you know running on a full stomach in 15 years freaking run on a full stomach oh i did that’s what i’m saying though you know what i’m saying like there’s all kinds of things that you can just push through and still get it in that’s what i’m saying even all the way down to hey who cares if you’re there if this person is coming over yeah true that’s the end of the world huh if you’re not there you know not the end of the world but maybe not the best move at that time okay then we shift to the full stomach situation we did it you know or maybe the half stomach oh you know i’m just saying that the opportunity is always there you know this was in line with sort of this evolving attitude that i have now of of of kind of a going hard against the weakness yeah i was like not only am i going to run still i’m going to run on a full stomach and just want to puke yeah a whole freaking time because that’s how you know so but i did the same exact thing but it was it was less complex for sure but it was like the window was closing like i can’t get my full workout now because dinner time like yeah you know i’m gonna eat dinner you ever just do something super short in psycho though if you let the window close but you don’t want to let it shut so you’re like okay cool oh you want to be like that cool yeah just going to go in here and do like mayhem for 18 minutes yeah yeah because you can get a freaking good workout in 18 minutes yeah it’s probably not going to be the plan to work out in my situation but yeah yeah i’ll do that a few i’d done that a few times when i had to like come here somewhere where if i’m late it kind of affects other people and you know it’s like it’s my fault anyway you know so i’ll oh yeah i’ll do that kind of stuff for sure but i did it with the dinner thing and i did a metcon on a full stomach and i even told you about it the next day i was like i was doing anyway it’s a long story but yeah well speaking of timelines let’s rock and roll yes sir all right okay look we’re doing workouts we’re not doing excuses we’re what fighting against weakness punishing weak weakness thoughts we’re punishing ourselves for those thoughts or considerations but when you do that you know you join your bodies take a beating specifically your joints from time to time okay choco is supplementation for that so supplements are chocolate fuel joint warfare for your joints super krill oil for your joints vitamin d is it super vitamin d we’ll just say it’s pretty good how about that because i’d say yeah super super it’s not called super vitamin d

maybe we need your help with branding on that one no man like you helped us with super krill i didn’t know kind of funny either way it’s vitamin d nonetheless i’m gonna change the name too super vitamin d all day yeah for 100 percent so you know get on that one um also cold war wasn’t it called like some cold killer or something yeah before you can’t say that kind of stuff don’t say that because it kills colds you can’t say that you can’t say that that’s a bad advertising what’s the word so we can’t say that but we can’t go to war against colds yes missile uh defense tank what is it the tank the cold war missile defense i say that cold war missile defense yes sir you say that i do all day i fight the war against colds every day let’s see also discipline regular discipline and the supplementation discipline cans powder pills whatever you need yeah whatever your mentality that little yeah big little psychological hitter a little bit of a little bit of go jocko palmer taking the lead sorry is it taking the lead it’s leading right now it’s leading i agree yeah i agree first flavor school yeah i had the long drive to montana sure 17 hours all one go one go one go nope i mean i stopped for gas fuel of course yes sir but the cool thing was uh just kind of fyi for your research in the future two discipline go let’s cans much one and about one at about midnight maybe one o’clock in the morning and i had another one at like two or three that’s that’s the kind of that’s the that’s once the sun’s coming up you’re good yeah when’s the sun coming about rock and roll but there’s i guess it’s maybe around four o’clock in the morning like you don’t see as soon as you start seeing sun your body goes oh cool we’re awake now yeah it’s day it’s that 3 34 4 30 where your body thinks you should be asleep right freaking now yeah get that hitter boy 17-hour drive so when when you time it like when do you leave like night time essentially yep yeah you’re right post time dinner departure yeah okay i dig it i don’t think i’ve ever driven 17 hours ever ever cool i’m not sure how valuable that information is but those are the facts uh yeah so mulk don’t forget about mulk don’t forget about you you probably need extra protein i had a mulk before i came here today just because i have doms sure and i was like meaning delayed onset muscle soreness sure a little heavy on squats yesterday and i have a lot of doms so i just kicked down some mulch a little extra protein plus i was in the mood for dessert even though i didn’t have any lunch so anyways all this stuff choco white tea kids kids wore your kid milk you get all the stuff at the vitamin shop we also make ed or also you can get it at origenmaine.com if you want to support this podcast if you want to support america in general which if you want to support america in general good on you get yourself some quality items yeah get yourself a ghee for your jujitsu get yourself a rash guard for your jiu jitsu t-shirts jeans jeans american denim boots you guys have the um delta 68 then the what’s the regular one called again the factory jeans factory genes is there like another what do you call it a model no that’s the two models right now factory genes heavier delta genes lighter which i know this is a little strange but you know not man i dig it um you know delta 68. montana was wearing a lightweight hoodie not you though no it wasn’t me but they told me like to tell you that they supported approved in montana by the way which is surprising you can’t argue with the people i mean it’s just you know it goes against your whole thing you know anyway yes origin main.com that’s where all this stuff exists it’s something american-made fully also jocko has a store it’s called jacostore.com this is where you can get discipline equals freedom deathcore good worth all deathcore technically technically for sure so yeah just blending hoodies shirts hats lightweight hoodies that’s or rash guards for sure we’ve got some new stuff new stuff oh

you’ve been plotting all kinds of stuff over there we have a few new things uh really good stuff utility and more utility we we have a shirt coming that may become sort of like the shirt i’m not making any predictions just for me personally it might become the shirt that i end up wearing a lot you literally won’t wear anything else it’ll be like remember back in the day when you still always wear victory even before the podcast i look at all the old pictures of ourselves victory shirt as long as you’ve known me yeah it’s like you can’t even recognize you if you don’t have that victory shirt on if even a picture like that even exists which i don’t think it does it’s going to be one of those well we’ve had victory for what 10 years yeah and so for a long time and we’ve been doing the podcast for five uh something like that coming up on five so that means for five complete years before this podcast the the one free t-shirt i had which i had a lot of them sure actually john dudley asked me that the we were up in montana like the the fifth day in a row i posted up in a victory t-shirt he said do you just wear that or wash it or you have a thousand of them i go no i don’t have a thousand of them but i got ten oh yeah we have the light one and the dark one either way that’s why you have the light one and the dark one of this new shirt i’ll let you make it you know i’ll let you uh what do you call it uh roll it out as it were reveal it anyway review it’s jocko’s jam big time anyway jocklestore.com that’s where you can get your uh that’s where you can go get your stuff to represent while you’re on the path put it that way some new stuff so uh keep that in mind look if you wanna know about new stuff or how should i wanna know about new stuff dave what shirt is that this is a deathcore shirt but it’s available it’s absolutely available it’s called ops you have black ops you’re wearing it and he has i know i have the black one declassified the declassified version but here’s the deal the difference between a white shirt and a black shirt in the california sun is extreme yes sir so i like to wear a white shirt i don’t have this one echo charles yeah easy yeah things that must suck really but hey man you know i know a guy and maybe we’ll get you one cool yeah yeah so yes if you want a uh deathcore black ops or declassified chocolatestore.com declassified yes i like it i i like it when you sort of mingle with military terms normally if you’re suspect you you contact me yeah you say hey what would this be a correct usage of the word whatever yeah or appropriate yeah yeah often times i say you know not really yeah there was one thing i did and i think yeah it was you oh the high speed low drag i was gonna use that in some it wasn’t a shirt but it was in some other stuff i was doing and you’re like hey don’t do that don’t do that one because it wasn’t like appropriate yeah i forget what it was because high speed low drag is definitely a term yes and it has a meaning i forget the way you used it i used it in a more serious way than it should be oh yeah that’s not a serious term yeah it’s kind of like that guy is high speed low draft yeah like for real it’s kind of like you might say it about a pair of gucci looking shooting glasses yeah yeah yeah that’s what i learned uh yeah so anyway back to what i was saying hey if you want to get be in the know we have an email list on jocko’s store if you want to be in the know about some stuff i i don’t abuse this list at all in fact i i under utilize it actually i tried try my best to save it for important stuff the stuff that i think it’s important so if you want to know about a new product some new board shorts that may or may not be on the way or something like this if you’re on the email list you will get notified before everybody i’m not saying our stuff sells out what if you have important information what if you have important information about rolling frying pans uh well you know hey look does that make the list usually stuff like that no thank you bill for inquiring i mean we do have to clarify i guess and so that’s correct but important in information about jacqueline store sign up for that email list hey we’ll get that info to you and you’ll have it before everybody else and boom won’t be all good will you put the new t-shirt on there yes i well yeah you said that was mine to announce yeah that might be yours to announce or you just send the email how about that okay i’ll send an email out when the new shirt is released uh subscribe to the podcast if you haven’t already we also have some other podcasts we have uh the new podcast which is isn’t on its own channel yet it’s called the unraveling it was called the thread we had to change the name we also have the grounded podcast we also have the warrior kid podcast

we have a youtube channel by the way we have a youtube channel that has all these podcasts on them you can see us except for the first seven because the first seven there was no video involved it’s just voice oh yeah even though we did the first podcast on like some kind of live stream if you tried to yeah i remember we were having some trouble technically yeah so anyways or and then also some of these are there’s some excerpts in there as well yeah sure and there’s also some things that echo charles experiments with random and very over the top special effects on on just normal videos and he’ll put 98 special effects into a two-minute video but this video right here which is gonna be three hours and 40 minutes long there will be no no excitement other than just watching me crack up at my own jokes at the end of this podcast no additional excitement needed in my opinion so far there could be so many good little ex like extra additions and easter eggs or whatever you call them in this particular podcast talking about flanking people mortars 37 millimeters 88 grenades just think of all the cool stuff that could be flying around in here it’s blowing up anyway also jocko has or we have an album with tracks called psychological warfare you know if you don’t know what this is don’t worry this this is going to help you it helps us so we’re talking about inertia right uh object that is in st rest stays at rest tends to stay at rest and it’s if it’s in motion so anyway if you’re battling to get into motion when you’re currently at rest and it’s hard sometimes it’s hard i got you this will help that is what i’m saying psychological warfare okay jocko telling you what to do not necessarily what to do but why you should do what you should do it’s about accurate right yeah yeah that’s available wherever you need mp3s also if you want a visual representation of those types of messages go to flipsidecanvas.com my brother dakota myers makes stuff to hang on your wall got a bunch of books the code the evaluation the protocol leadership strategy and tactics field manual way the warrior kid one two and three mikey and the dragons discipline equals freedom field manual extreme ownership and the dichotomy of leadership you can get those books pretty much anywhere books are sold we have a consulting agency for leadership and what we do is we solve problems through leadership go to echelonfront.com for details if you can’t get with us live that’s fine go to efonline.com where we get granular with these things on a regular basis where you want to talk to me you want to interact with me go to yeponline.com i you will you will ask me questions me on a zoom call you want to talk to dave you want to ask him something go to efonline.com you will interact with him you will ask him questions he will give you answers that’s what we do on that channel there’s a bunch of training on that channel there’s a forum on that channel so go to ef on if online.com for that we also have the muster coming up in phoenix arizona september 16th and 17th and then dallas texas december 3rd and 4th check extreme extreme ownership.com for details we’ve we’re going to be doing these looks like with social distancing so there’s going to be less seats available which means they’re going to sell out faster we have ef overwatch which is our placement firm we’re taking people from the military and placing them into businesses so if you are a vet looking for work or you are a company looking for leaders to come into your company that understand the principles that we talk about here go to eforewatch.com if you want to help out veterans around the world service members around the world go to america’s mightywarriors.org that is mark lee’s mom mama lee helping all service people out you can go there and you can either donate or you can get involved and if you just can’t get enough of my in terminable tirades or you needs a little bit more of echo charles’s preposterous postulations

or maybe you just like to hear one more of dave’s jangling juxtapositions then you can find us on the interwebs on twitter instagram and on facebook dave is at david burke david r burke b-e-r-k-e echo is that echo charles and i am at jocko willing and of course thanks to all the men and women in uniform who allow us to live our lives the way we want to and that is in glorious freedom and to the police and law enforcement and firefighters and paramedics and emts and dispatchers and correctional officers and border patrol and secret service thanks to all of you for protecting us and for keeping our nation a nation of law and order not a nation of chaos and anarchy and to everyone else out there just just remember that the effect on most men of the impact of battle is to cause them to want to do nothing and it’s the same thing with the slings and arrows of life we get pushed toward inaction and inactivity and indolence and the solution to that is that a determined effort must be exerted to accomplish things to accomplish tasks and that is on you and you know what that means it means get out there and get after it and until next time this is dave and echo and jocko out