The Kitchen Table: BBQ Safety with Larry Ramdin

welcome to another episode of the kitchen table I it is my distinct pleasure to introduce Larry remnant of our town board of health health inspector this is our second episode and we’re going to today with Larry’s knowledge introduce our audience to the correct proper ways for serving summer foods transporting and barbecuing Larry what do we have on the table today well we’re going to talk about it from the time you go to the grocery because your food safety really starts then so what do we do now it’s hot out temperatures in excess of 85 degrees out and we go to the supermarket a lot of times what we do is we go to the supermarket and we have other things to do so we go there we put the food in the car and supermarket might be far away because we prefer to go somewhere else for example I know gene had mentioned going up to butcher boy not hand over right that’s a little hike to come back down especially if you’re gonna meet traffic with all the road construction right true that are going on now so what can we do how about taking a cooler with you simple cooler to put your meats in a couple of blocks of coolant an action called you food until you get home as soon as you get in the house make sure you put it away properly the other alternative is to buy immediately before you’re ready to do your cookout but i don’t think anyone does that tell us were too busy preparing to go shopping right before so that i would I don’t want to say old technique of going grocery shopping every day for that evening meal it’s gone but that was as if it better way to your food safety exactly because the time between it believes the supermarket and gets to your home is not very long okay but you don’t have to deal with a lot of thawing and refreezing and things that so your product comes from refrigeration it’s prepared right away mm-hmm you had a question for me yes I do do you recall in the last episode you started to talk about butter and my concern was a lot of times it doesn’t necessarily have to be in the summertime but even during winter thus the other seasons I go into someone’s home and they have butter that is left out on the kitchen table covered in a butter dish for two to three hours is that safety yes it is yes okay I’m glad to hear that but it is made up of a lot of fat and the concern with refrigeration of butter two things it’s one aesthetics because your butt is going to remain keep its form out there but it’s not going to be spreadable okay and it’s to prevent the butter from becoming rancid that’s why we refrigerate butter because if it stays out for too long then the fat start to break down and it gets rancid I mean you’re gonna have to throw it out anyway but now what’s been going on I would see if your butter gets overly soft and then especially in this type of beautiful weather now it’s gonna melt so it’s gonna go boy anyway okay so too long is really something that you need to look at with your butter I would you can bring it out leave it on the table for a couple hours put it back in so you can’t put it back in yes you can okay okay okay because even when you’re doing myself personally when i’m doing baking and they call for softened butter mm-hmm sometimes that can take an hour for the butter to shot yeah a lot of people I know take that butter out the night before they big so it can be really soft and mixed in with the flour while they’re baking okay because it does take a lot of time to blend back in all right okay so keeping butter out at room temperature is safe Oh hey how happy to hear that what’s the fat butter has a very high fat content it doesn’t have a lot of protein or carbohydrates in it that will support microbial sorry but it’s like anything else if some were to have it out in the hot Sun it’ll go rancid it goes rancid and that probably would be true now Larry we had touched upon once before

food that is prepped for a barbecue like we have mayo and sometimes they’ll put eggs inside a macaroni salad or potato salad what are the safety features for transporting that you prepare it at someone’s home when you get there bring the ingredients with you you can do a couple of things if you’re going to prepare it at home and transport it to someone’s cookout put it in a container and put some ice around it and keep it cool that’s what you want to do or you can keep ingredients cool and branch a site wherever you’re going and toss it in there it might be more practical to do it at home and just put some ice blocks around it to keep it cool and bring it to where you’re going all you have to is get a box put a clear plastic bag in it put your container fill some ice around it wrap it over in the box die the back cover it and you have an instant disposable cooler it’s in that static exactly and it’s not expensive you can also wrap with some newspaper all around the cops put layers of newspaper yes you want to boy yeah now one other thing and I don’t know if if it would melt too quick what I have done is I have a large stainless steel bowl so I can put my crushed ice and then I’ve already prepared say my potato salad take it out and make a nice man we’re going to get into that okay going to be talking about those things so great okay we need to do is let’s think about what we’re doing in a little sequence so we went shopping we bought our meats we bought our ingredients with gotten a cooler we have some insulated bags or something that we have a cold and we bring it and we put it in the house we prepare to overnight so what do we do are we going to be marinating anything so we marinate it we put it in a bag put it back in the refrigerator refrigerator working properly just as it was we mentioned the last time double-check your refrigerators keep a thermometer and they make sure it’s running below 41 degrees oh okay comes out so we’re ready to cook you bring it out mm-hmm and what do you do with that marinade nothing when you take the meat out of it marinade becomes trash because remember you have raw meat in that marinade so that should not be used as a base to used as a base because what you’re going to be doing is you’re going to be taking bacteria from that raw meat and you’re going to be putting it on your cooking product and then you want to get you guessed sick because that bacteria may not be killed by the heat of the grill really so that means if people have been doing this this is really unknown it’s an unsafe practice some people would take the marinade and then mix it in with barbecue sauce and leave it there and people slather it on their burgers I’ve seen it happen so then you have all of the juices me in the bacteria sitting there exactly can you can get someone sick with it now remember you didn’t invite your friends over to give them salmonella you invite them over to give them food okay so okay now when we purchased that meat and with we have at home we had talked about chicken in blazing chicken and rinsing he meets out in a mixture of vinegar or lemon juice and salt so that’s both beef and poultry Tommy because what it does remember during the slaughtering practice although they do a lot of testing and our meat industry is doing a lot more testing than they were ever before because the USDA and I believe 1998 had all any plants following has approaches hazard analysis and critical control points what they were expected to do is anticipate problems and when they anticipated those problems put a control in place to prevent it from happening things happen but what we need to do we also have to take all precautions because bacteria are very very small and they may test and it may not be present in the test sample but its present somewhere else we should take whatever precautions we can if you take the surface bacteria off by doing the ciliated sodium chloride

rinses a mullet or I just say lime and salt lime and salt now is there any percentage or tablespoon size of Psalm if you use about a quart bowl of water you probably need about maybe two tablespoons of lemon juice to about a chain okay salt that’s about it it’s not much and just mix in the water and the salt and the lemon juice together and you just rinse you mean so the lemon juice is causing acid acidity yes it’s reacting with the salt and it’s luring it’s boring the water acid and you’re making a mild acid in the water okay I’ve just learned something because i have always i was raised that you would soak your raw chicken before you use it in soft make a salt and water i was raised the same way and i couldn’t figure it out until i was reading a journal one day and it set me as i mentioned in the last program assimilated harassing wow this is interesting in her i started laughing because it was exactly what my grandparents did what my parents did and what I was tortured we didn’t know the science why yes I’m gonna read it and I said okay you’re lowering the pH which is going to lower the surface bacteria and kill them all so okay so the practice was a good one we just said no the science behind what you were doing so what we need to do is we need to look at how we’re going to set up where we’re going to cook I’ve said before that the most dangerous thing on a cook their hands so what we need to do is make sure that you have some type of hand-washing available because it’s not convenient to be running in and out to the sinks in the house to wash your hands and then we’re going to be handling a lot of raw food we’re going to be handling some foods that are being cooked to a lower temperature for example we’ll be doing chicken and then we’ll be doing hot dogs and hamburgers so how do we really move back and forth while we’re handling it the other thing I want people to think about is you need to set up your bag or your cooler if you’re going to bring the food out in a container put the thing that’s going to be cooked to the highest temperature at the bottom so the thing at the bottom is always going to be a poultry followed by your ground meat so you poultry your chicken at the bottom then you separate it with a layer of ice or something else and you put in your hamburger and at the top you put your hot dogs and if you have fish or your sticks they go at the top because they’re all cooked to the same temperature okay take hot dogs unless you’re making your own sausages if you’re making Ewan sausages then your sausages have should be cooked up to 155 degrees if you’re buying sausages out of the supermarket’s it’s still 155 degrees because it’s ground meat so anything that’s ground has to be if you’re buying turkey sausages remember turkey is poultry chicken is poacher there’s a lot of chicken and turkey sausages out there if you’re buying those cook them to 165 degrees it doesn’t have cuz it’s a poultry exactly it’s the poultry so we’re going to talk about setting up so you set up your cooler that way you bring it out you make sure you have your sensors in place and we’ve made a solution of sanitizing a sanitizing solution here all you do is you take your sanitizer and you give it a quick wipe you rest it down make sure that you’ve done that previously too with all your surfaces mm-hmm now Larry when you have completed your barbecuing and you’ve cleaned your utensils sometimes you know like they do have these little hooks here at the end of your barbecue surface to hang your utensils but I’ve seen and I have done this in the past and I know it’s a no-no you leave it out there until your next barbecue and then you just rinse it well let’s think about it would you do that with your utensils in the house would you have people over to dinner and then just leave the dishes dirty apps until yeah you guys come back no because it’s going to go karate it’s gonna allow bacteria to grow its going to provide food for pests to come all the little bugs are going to come for food so if you clean your equipment after clean right after right at immediately before and immediately after because you don’t know what’s happened storage okay and that holds true with

you grilled yeah okay now setting up washing you have a little bit of hand soap your water and I like something with the pool spigot because I find it difficult to push my hand against a cooler and try to wash one hand and then hole and rincey at it just doesn’t work because the whole process of hand washing involves the friction I have to remove the bacteria on the surface so you have to really rub together to remove whatever’s on your hand I’m not going to simulate it but when you do what your hands in fact I’m going to do it and you lather for 20 seconds you said the last time you sing happy birthday happy birthday stay off of it whatever so actually if you’re going to be barbecuing and you’re having them group come in you almost need to set up a mini little kitchen now that is exactly it because you have your your grilling area is your kitchen you are wherever you’re cooking that’s your kitchen so it is a good idea then I have seen them in catalogs they’ll sell these outdoor counter cabinets mm-hmm that if you can afford windows by all means I’ve looked I’ve been out to costco recently and they have a fantastic girl that I told my references this is my dream a sink oh wait I has everything that you could want a full kitchen outdoors so you liked oh really yeah I love to cook too says in my dreams but I’ll keep dreaming so you have to improvise yes and look we improvise yeah I like what you did we took a clay pot plastic bag now have a trash container okay super we use things right around the yard so washed our hands and yes i know i picked up the pot so I should wash my hands before I start handling right remember hands are the most dangerous things you have they will hands travel they pick everything up and then they’ll put it on the food so we’ve talked about cooking the food of course I always wear my trusty apron and why do you suggest an apron Mary Oh a lot of people think the apron is in labor and does two things it protects you from being steamed mm-hmm but more than anything else it protects the food from you oh okay when you got up this morning and you changed you did a lot whatever you did came in contact with your clothes and it’s on your clothing and that is going to get on to the food while you’re cooking and then I’m noticing the baseball hat yeah I always wear a hat because aesthetics and I don’t want my hair getting into my guests food mm-hmm okay while there have been little evidence to show that there has been much direct control but we have bacteria yesterday there was a study in fact I was looking at the television last night there was a study showing that our skin has over 200 different species of bacteria on them 200 yeah 200 different types of bacteria living on our skin Wow and also get into the food ok so the apron has a dual purpose yes it’s to protect us our clothing from getting stained and the food from getting whatever is on our clothing on it um couple tools I have digital thermometer I like a digital for outdoor grilling for one single reason the regular thermometer that we used last shot last time it’s great friend or cooking but since you have to put it up to this dimple that’s an awful deep area ok if the bus it’s with my glasses on for this one on the far side ok so to get this into a hamburger it’ll fall apart yeah I won’t be able to take the Tampa Jonah number boy I true I took a championship then yes the digital thermometer has a smaller tip so you can use the Senate reach directly from the tip whereas this has to be put up a teachable ok otherwise it’s not gonna read properly that’s why I prefer and digital thermometers are easily available at just about every hardware

home buds mm-hmm place where you get you can you suggest the digital for the outdoor yeah I’m not expensive one of these will probably run you about ten dollars which is worth it for safety yeah I’ve had this with the same battery in it for the last seven years wow this little trusty tool here is a grill thermometer in which how do we use it if you look at the disc here this tip is a tip that reads the temperature and this this prevents it from going too far so you stick it in and it stays right there so you just would stick it in of that much into the meat yeah that’s all you need and you’re on and off switch is right here mm-hmm so you turn on and off so you just stand on read turn off so you can check every single cut mastercam was my son’s graduation and I was drilling up a storm at every single piece of meat was checked for this any particular brand that you recommend if people Google grilling thermometers then they will see this one I bought this at China fear in Newton on Needham Street in New ok i bought this there I know it’s available that goes for about eighteen dollars then I’ve seen it on the internet in excess of forty dollars now I know China fear has a website so if people want to go on and check it out check it out then they can do that but I this is my favorite too when I’m grilling so that you could use that for I use it for everything beef ultra poultry and what just remember in between your species that’s why we keep the sanitizer handy every time you check a different type all you have to do san it so if you were checking your poultry you rinse clean that and then you check your beef do not go consistently what I do is when I’m cooking is I cook from Louis temp-to-hire stamp so I start with my hot dogs first then my steaks then i go to my hamburgers and the last thing that goes on girl is my chicken all right now when the usual is when you’re growing all right who wants a hamburger who wants chicken does this one section for your hamburger your patties and then use your chicken you suggest not to do that what if you have an upper rack and a lower rack cookie hot dogs on it upper rack cook your chicken or cook your hamburgers on the upper rack and cook your chicken on the lower okay so it’s just like you would in your refrigerator product that’s going to be cooked to the highest temperature put it the lowest product that’s going to be cooked to the high reason why I do that too is you can’t feed everyone off the grill that’s why I cook ahead of time and I set up my warmers put some sternos in you have the first pan put boiling water so we got some boiling water here and fill the boiling water in the pan because what it’s going to do here is that you don’t want your sternos to be heating up cold water because it’s not going to heat up enough but we don’t fill it for the audience you know we don’t have sternos in here right now this is just for demonstration strangely pour boiling water and you’ve sternos are going so it’s already hot it’s just maintaining the temperature of the water and then you put your pan in and you put your food in cover over it so it’s going to maintain the temperature until your guests are ready same thing if you’re going to be using cool food just as we talked earlier you are asking about putting the salads right right yes take a larger dish fill it with ice and then put the smaller container with your salads in that so what you’ve done is you’ve created an ice bath remember you want to keep your hot foods hot and if whole foods cold and it does work because I’ve just done it and food that I had out and it’s not because I’m a professional and this but because it works it’s cuz now what is there’s no real science to bring these items now we have a bath we put in our potato salad and I macaroni salad we need to keep it covered should we know that’s all you do just put them in I’ll

get some ice around the sides mm-hmm and then cover it there are number of different covers out there you can buy the pop-up covers right cover it they’re foil covers that you can put on them some people going to the more expensive chafing dishes a simple stainless steel bowl with another bowl in it but the I surrounded and plastic wrap is just as good okay as does now you can also take a big cooler o or a box just remember we talked about right right ice yes that you would bring from the supermarket you can do the same thing take a plastic bag line your box with it and fill that with ice pop the containers off your cold foods in it then pour the ice around it and if you just take some nice decorative paper you’ve made an instant cooler well you know that’s very that’s a very good tip for our audience because you don’t have to go out and buy all this elaborate equipment I mean you could even take that box and take here a distal or something and wrap it around and and that would also be a good thing as if it starts to melt you have something absorbing that exactly so safety is not necessarily running out in purchasing all this equipment it’s using techniques to prevent ninety percent of food safety is common sense okay being innovative understanding what the problem is that you want to solve once you understand what you want to solve you can come up with a number of solutions for it okay okay now the other thing that was brought to mine with this these can be disposed of yes a lot of us like to use them for containers are not intended to be reused because there are too many seems in here and that could become a bacteria haven you got it okay okay well Larry what about your serving food to your guests you have beverage are there any beverages that we should be more concerned about I mean the soda pop keep it on ice if you have if your beverage comes from the store if you buy from your fridge erated case in the store and has to be refrigerated then make sure it’s kept refrigerated once it’s cold yeah keep a copy bit cold okay a lot of things we want to keep cold beers so we take our sewer and other beverages and to get them cool and put it on the ice does not necessarily have to be cold but for comfort and pleasure we keep them cold making an ice bath for cream because we after a good meal everyone says what about some coffee mm-hmm and of course we all want cream little coffee or tea put it in some ice and you can make a similar ice bath as you would for the salads put it there get a small box put some ice in it and then put your containers of cream in there okay I when I have cookouts I don’t buy the big it’s more cost efficient too the big ones but it’s not as safe to buy them so i buy them half finest paint or the paints and put them out it’s easier and at the end of the day it’s done it’s done and you don’t then you’re not throwing out what just saves purchasing it you’re losing cuz you have to store it yeah because remember every time you keep it to me frigerator whatever it’s costing you to run that refrigerator mm-hmm it increases the cost of that milk or a cream that you bought right and then if you if it’s been out too long and you have to discard it still losing now is there any suggestions people sometime when I say people the general families I said well let me make a batch of ice cubes for our drinks and they’ll put them in a bowl and sometimes people like to go with your fingers absolutely not let’s practice in the world remember what we said hands are dangerous okay here at songs okay tongs are very tough put that right it gets to your put it in it in it all right in it because people will miss it okay okay and whatever you do I one of my pet peeves is when you go out the vegetable platter comes out and it’s a beautiful dip in the middle and everyone’s dipping into it well then they dip and then someone by centric wow this is a great defending go back that’s a no-no we all know double dipping is not yeah permitted but it happens it happens what

I like to do is put a spoon in any medium and when people come to they will take up their salads on the vegetables onion just dip some out you have a little paper plates or something then just like with any plate so you can walk around with your own sheriff dep that’s you don’t have to give to anyone else when you’re not contaminating it for anyone else okay okay these are great tips great knowledge now we’re talking about barbecue we’re going off to the beach mm-hmm I have my cooler ready to go is there any sequence for putting sandwiches in fruit in to a cooler if it’s all cooked you don’t really have to worry about the sequence okay so if it’s cooked you’re okay the only thing I recommend is get some of these ice blocks these maintain temperature well and I line the bottom and the sides of my bags when I am traveling some of these bags come with their own insulation for example it may come with a sheet like this they just stick in your freezer just make sure that it is prepared and the way I packet is back according to how you’re going to be eating so the thing that you’re going to be eating first goes and last the thing that you’re going to be eating last goes in first okay so you’re not digging around your kulla and if you use ice cubes in a cooler you know what sometimes people throw ice cubes on top they have your ice block and this drips down that’s bacteria am i right on it is going to support bacteria because the moisture will cause bacteria to grow but it all depends on what you have in there if you have your sandwiches and they’re wrapped in light plastic and they’re going to get moist and it’s going to transfer it and what you probably need to do is put a layer of plastic over okay the ice blocks alright do that what about making ice cubes and putting them in you you know you had little ice cube trays and I’m going to make ice cubes put them in my freezer is there any precaution do you rinse that tray out soap and water rinse it out before you do another batch of I skills I no not really because you’re moving from just emptying it out putting it in a bag and then you’re filling water and putting free to get back in okay unless you think that while it was in the you had some raw meats go into the freezer and came in contact with with it came but always remember when you’re putting meats and you always put it below things that you’re not gonna cook any further and I see you on coke ice all right so you always store everything below ice let’s talk about the freezer I just came in from purchasing me mm-hmm and I want to freeze my poultry I want to freeze my lamb chops how do you stack them the same as you do yes your cooler exacting on the bottom chicken on the bar I got it remember it’s always the thing that’s going to be cooked to the highest temperature you always store at the bottom so it’s in a descending order the lower your temperature the high so you put hot dogs at the top followed by your steaks you fish then your hamburger and okay poultry see a lamb chops will go above your hamburger what about defrosting defrosting do you defrosting in your refrigerator if you know you’re going to be cooking a few days take it out put it in the refrigerator you can also be frost on the running water get you water up to about 70 degrees put it in a bowl fill the bowl up with water and then have the water running at a very very slow pace so if I can show you here that’s about all you all you need that’s it piece of what you want running because what do we do it will create a current and then keep changing water out you can also defrost in the microwave but if you’re going to defrost in the microwave as soon as it comes out of the microwave it goes onto the grill okay it’s going to be served don’t defrost in the microwave and leave the reason for that is you’ve just brought that up into the danger zone where bacteria will grow

in the microwave in the microwave so when it’s defrosted and it’s in that zone and you leave it out and that bacterias gonna start growing rapidly so if you put something in the microwave and I’m saying even if you’re cooking mm-hmm and you know how sometimes your microwave will get these beads of moisture mm-hmm you wipe it out wipe it off because that will create yeah all we have to use our sanitizer yeah okay this sanitized the inside so that should be something on a routine basis night you microwave like anything else in your kitchen should be cleaned daily ok back to the grill cleaning it after is it that it you take the grill into the kitchen scrub it in the sink yeah and then bring it out or do you leave it would you suggest leaving it and store it in a cat kitchen cabinet and then use it again it all depends on you grow type I normally take my grill top off wash it out and oil it and put it back on because I have a good cast on top you can leave it there once it’s cleaned up put it back on cover it and it should be good but one of the things I needed to talk about with the grill to is before people start grilling what they need to do just from a safety aspect is they need to look at their surroundings where is this grill located is it 10 feet away from the house because you don’t want the heat from the house ruining a shingles or catching him a fire that’s a very good point because a lot of people keeps because they wanted even grill during the winter mm-hmm they keep the grills on their decks and it’s right hugging the house right and that can let it sit against you yes so people need to be aware of that what is it located next to what can get into it mix some soap and water and rub the hoses down with it and turn your gas on if you see it bubbling then you know that there’s a leak in your gas line so you need to replace your gas line rubber lines because doors can become brittle then you want to grill the meat you don’t want to grow yourself yes yes the thing I wanted to talk about was leftovers oh I never everyone wants leftovers it’s no different than taking the foods in or transporting the foods make yourself some little coolers to take it back home okay they’re beautiful gallon bags out their storage bags plastic storage bags you put them in the plastic storage bags that freezer bags put your food in a freezer bag wrap it get all the air seal it and put it in a container it’s a nice those bags hold very well nothing gets into them so the seat is very tight then you wrap it up make a makeshift cooler just as we had spoken earlier okay and then you can transport at all get the food inside now if your food has been sitting out now during regular times you can keep some things out I would say for about two hours and then get rid of it so if you have a lot of food don’t bring it all out keep it inside and refrigerator and as the amounts who down then keep replenishing what about um if your foods have been out for a long time they’re gone yeah yeah you’re grilling I just brought out the hamburgers on a platter that platter stays there or it goes back to be rinsed to have the cooked hamburgers put on it it can go back to be washed and clean properly for the cooked hamburgers what I like to do is I use a 2 table set up when I’m cooking mm-hmm where my raw foods coming on one side okay and it goes to cooked oh so cooked and raw will never meet so everything comes someone said there’s a flow keep slowing all right so anything that’s on this side stays on this side so a clean plate should be on this side clean on one side and your AWS on the other so you have cooked food on once I don’t mix your cooked and you raw together because it’s going to get contaminated this is a lot of information if our audience should have any questions Larry how do they go about getting answers well USDA has a

wonderful hand out online that they’ve put up BBQ and food safety I’m going to post it on our website wonderful and people can go to the health department’s website and get it this is Redding’s yes great information I I did browse through this and it goes through it’s a very simple explanation on all safety things that you can take e mm-hmm to ensure that your barbecues are successful what you need to do because they talk about pre before you buying how you’re throwing marinating transporting keeping your foods cold keeping things clean doing dealing with your left overs free cooking so this is this is your outdoor cooking food safety 101 yes handout okay is there anything else you’re gonna first for knowledge today just remember safe food is keeping food safe is simple if you follow some very simple techniques keep raw foods separate from cooked foods make sure that your hands are always clean and if your foods are cool keep them below 41 degrees if your foods are hot keep them above 140 if you follow those simple rules everything should be okay well I look forward to this barbecue season because I have a lot more knowledge now thank you so so much suppl esha anything our pleasure thank you again and we’re going to probably be doing another segment later in the fall for thanksgiving and how to prepare that turkey and the do’s and the don’ts for safety issues thank you very much for joining us today we look forward to another episode with the kitchen table