Installing Wind Energy in your Community – April 10, 2019

Hi everybody, thanks so much for joining us It’s great to have you here, we’ve really enjoyed putting on these webinars And hope if you find today’s webinar useful that you let your friends and neighbors and colleagues know about this opportunity One hour a month is pretty good commitment of time I think to get some great information about important topics So today, we’re going to be focusing on wind, turbine installations, and this fits right into all of the topics we’ve covered in this webinar series And just as a reminder, the topics come from you and from local officials around Indiana who are letting us know the topics that they are particularly interested in We are recording today’s webinar and a copy will be accessible on the Environmental Resilience Institute website Everybody is currently muted and we ask that you save your questions until the end However, if you have an urgent question during the presentation and you think you might forget it cuz that happens to me a lot You can send a question through the chat function If you haven’t done that before, there’s a little box down at the bottom of your screen that says chat If you hover your mouse over that You may need to hover your mouse over that window at the bottom in order for that to appear, and then you click on that and you can put a note right in there So, to get right into this, not only do alternative and renewable energy sources such as wind limit carbon pollution They can also provide energy when fossil fuel powered systems fail or have a disruption Furthermore, wind installations can offer substantial economic benefits within a community And we’re very pleased to introduce two speakers who can provide additional Insights on this topic We know that this issue is not without controversy I think you’ll hear from our speakers and you’ll have the opportunity to ask them questions that you might have about things that you’ve heard Or read about wind energy, the benefits and some of the concerns that people might have So with us today is Beth Soholt from the Clean Grid Alliance, which is based in St. Paul, Minnesota, which is about to get nailed by a storm, I think, or maybe already is The Clean Grid Alliance is a nonprofit organization that offers technical and policy expertise to advance opportunities for renewables development and for fulfilling grid needs And I’ll give you a little bit more specifics about Beth in a minute She’ll be our first speaker And she’ll be followed by Steve Burton who is a county commissioner in White County, Indiana and owns a wind farm of his own He will share a few of his experiences And as I say, both of them will be available at the end of the hour to answer your questions We have over 30 people joining us today from across the US The fame of this webinar series is spreading nationwide, we’re thrilled about that Welcome and we hope you find today’s presentation useful I want to thank a couple of our sponsors, our co-hosts I guess The Association of Indiana Counties, which represents Indiana county officials in the various needs that they have Legislative advocacy, training, technical resources, that sort of thing And Accelerate Indiana Municipalities, which provides the same services for cities and town government in Indiana We are really thrilled to partner with both of these important organizations in presenting this information to you Let me just take a quick minute for those of you that may not know and explain the Indiana University Environmental Resilience Institute We were created two years ago by the president of the university To help Indiana become resilient in the face of the environmental changes that are happening in our state They are happening all over the world, as we all know Andrea and I, in particular, work on developing tools that are responsive to the needs that local governments in Indiana and across the Midwest identify to us There’s lots and lots of research going on at IU and other places to develop information, solutions, communication networks that will help local governments Who, to me, are really the front line when it comes to figuring out how we are going to mitigate the changes that are coming our way And be ready for them to protect public health, our local economies,

our agricultural industry here in the Midwest So, this webinar series is one aspect of the resources that we provide for local officials But as with all of our tools, we make these things widely available to anybody who is interested We currently have sessions planned through July, we’ll see whether attendance drops off in the summertime, I hope not And we’ll be sending out a survey in the coming weeks to ask for additional suggested webinar topics starting in the fall of 2019 and through next year So enough of that, I’m gonna Introduce both presenters now and then I won’t have to interrupt when we transition So Beth is Executive Director of the Clean Grid Alliance, as I mentioned She brings more than 15 years of experience working with the electric industry in various capacities She directs work in the areas of technical and transmission planning, state regulatory proceedings, legislative education, and outreach She holds a seat on the Midwest Independent System Operator Advisory Committee You might know that as MISO, representing the environmental sector She was also selected as one of three nonprofit representatives on the stakeholder steering committee of the Eastern Interconnection Planning Collaborative She has a law degree from Hamline University Law School in St. Paul and a Bachelor of Arts degree from Luther College in Decorah, Iowa Steve is a long time resident of White County, Indiana He served as a county commissioner for 15 years More than ten years ago, he was approached by three different companies about developing a wind farm on his family’s land That wind farm was completed and has been successfully operating ever since So to my mind, Steve is kind of a two-for for us He is a local official dealing with these issues in a professional capacity as a county commissioner And he also has personal experience with successfully developing a wind farm So I am going to turn it over to Beth now to share her slides and when she’s done, we’ll transition it to Steve Go ahead, Beth >> Thank you, Janet Let me share my screen here and we will get going So thank you very much to the Institute for hosting this webinar on wind energy this morning I’m excited to be chatting with you about this topic Looking forward to having a conversation about this and eager to hear your questions and comments So I’m gonna lay some broad overview about wind in the Midwest and Get into a few more Indiana specifics Just maybe before we go to my first slide, I can just tell you 30 seconds about Clean Grid Alliance Some folks may know us as Wind on the Wires We rebranded last September, and are doing wind, solar, and storage work now with our members We are kind of a purposeful collaboration of non-profits and for-profit industry working on renewables in the Midwest And so we have a nine-state footprint Indiana is one of our states, but we really go from the Dakotas over to Indiana, and from Michigan down to Missouri We do work in the MISO footprint, but we really work in at the legislative level, regulatory, technical, and then do a lot of communicating about renewable energy Less of our work is education Talking with people, education them It could be a land owner one day and it could be a governor’s office the next day, and everyone in between So I think we’ve seen a lot of change, particularly as wind and solar projects have become more economic, and communities are really looking at projects as our utilities to purchase from the project So let me just start with the growth of renewables I’ve got a couple charts here that really illustrate kind of the exponential growth that has happened cumulatively since 2000 in both wind and solar For reference, Indiana has about 2,300 megawatts of utility scale wind and over 300 megawatts of solar I checked, I think it’s about 331 megawatts of solar right now So you can see the huge growth that has happened just in

the last six to eight years in particular I wanted to just touch a minute about all the projects that are looking to be developed You’ll see on the left side of my slide, I’ve got the MISO footprint You’ll see that Indiana is in the central planning region, and you can see that there are 18.4 gigawatts, or 18,400 megawatts, 95 projects that are looking to interconnect in the central region And you’ll see that Indiana is also in two color pools So you’ve got a MISO piece and you’ve got a PJM, a Pennsylvania New Jersey Maryland piece You can see that there’s about 51% of the megawatts in MISO are solar and 35% wind We’ve seen a large build-out of wind that is continuing and we expect that to continue But solar is really picking up steam, and so at some point, we expect that there will be more solar development happening than wind But for right now, we’ve got the wind agenda is really quite active still You can see there’s some natural gas, but by far, in the MISO footprint where Clean Grid Alliance works, the primary projects that are looking to be developed are wind and solar Wind and solar costs have really come down, 69% over the last over the last eight years for wind, and a huge drop in solar cost as well This has really led to a more rapid adoption by utilities and by others who are looking at renewable energy One of the big trends right now is commercial and industrial customers who are looking at power purchase agreements to lock in a price, price certainty over the long-term Natural gas, of course, has fluctuating prices, but once you’ve paid for a wind farm in particular, once you’ve paid off the capital costs, you’ve got fuel that is free and a low operations and maintenance cost And so the economics of wind are really driving development of projects right now and of demand for the projects This is just a comparison, again, some more information on how wind and solar unsubsidized, so taking out all the subsidies for all energy sources So taking out the production tax credit, the investment tax credit for wind and solar, taking out the other subsidies that coal, gas, and nuclear see, you can see kind of how they compare on a cost basis Of course, you have to point out that wind and solar have a different production profile than coal, gas, or nuclear Wind and solar produce when there’s wind and when there’s sun But coal, gas, and nuclear power also have their challenges In the recent polar vortex that went through the Midwest, we saw wind production curtailed, solar fared pretty well, but we saw some challenges on gas and we saw challenges on frozen coal piles And so that’s why utilities have really looked at a basket of fuels to keep the grid reliable and to cost effectively and reliably serve customers I wanted to just take a minute to talk about what is going on in Indiana as far as from a utility perspective What are utilities looking at? How many megawatts are they looking at in their integrated resource plans? What’s the demand out there? And so you can see that Ameren, Consumers, Detroit Edison, Hoosier, Indiana Municipal, and NIPSCO, all of the utilities have new wind in their resource plans over the next 10 to 15 years

You can see the various amounts, but this is really driving development in Indiana And the utilities, if they put out a request for proposals for new wind, we’ll see quite a robust response as there are far more megawatts that are in projects that are looking to be developed than there is demand from the utilities right now So that’s really good for rate payers in that the utilities will get very cost effective bids to choose from And a lot of competition among wind developers are really driving great bargains for their customers We hear a lot about kind of politics where wind farms are started Not every state has a robust wind development, but they might have a manufacturing facility So there are a number of ways to see benefits from wind development and manufacturing I just wanted to share a brand new chart with you That came from the American Wind Energy Association annual report that was released yesterday So you can see Indiana has a development in the vast majority of your state And it’s really mostly Republican districts that are hosting wind farms This is also a new chart that was released yesterday by AWEA, by the American Wind Energy Association What they’ve done in this chart, is they have aggregated state tax payments and local tax payments on wind projects And you can see that Indiana currently receives $14 million in state and local tax payments And you can kind of see how Indiana compares to your surrounding states Iowa, of course, is very robust with their wind development, second only to Texas And California, actually it looks like it’s third for tax payments here, but it’s kind of an interesting comparison across the Midwest So Indiana is really holding your own as far as the kinds of benefits you are seeing from state and local taxes I wanted to talk a little bit more, diving in a little bit deeper now on the benefits of renewables to Indiana Some of the talking points that we use for benefits, benefits from a fuel cost perspective, lower risk investment than natural gas Again, natural gas has prices that are going up and down all the time, no fuel cost with wind I’m going to go a little bit deeper into the community benefits, and I’m sure Steve will as well But wind tax revenue provides counties, local townships with the ability to do lots of different things And of course, wind provides a risk free payment to land owners that is compatible with farming Because wind farms take very little footprint, and you’re able to farm right up to the base of turbines So here are a few more Indiana specifics Benton, White, Randolph, Tipton, Madison Counties, 15 wind manufacturing facilities in the state and over 2,000 jobs in Indiana So I just wanted to talk a little bit about things we have seen in states As far as opportunities that the tax revenue from wind farm development provides I think one of the most interesting things is to hear how local communities are spending or investing the tax revenues that they’re getting So I’ve listed out a couple of things that we’ve heard, being able to use tax revenue to benefit students in local schools We’ve certainly heard of examples where a school is able to provide laptops for students And probably one of the most recent examples we heard of

was one district in North Dakota actually was able to build a new STEM lab From tax revenues and from new revenues that came into their district I was at a dedication in North Dakota this past summer and there was a presentation by some of the local school kids They just finished their first STEM lab cycle And they were talking about the projects and the experiments and things they were able to do in the lab So, really interesting to hear from the kids what they were able to do Community services, Michigan, one of the best examples we heard of with local tax revenue One community didn’t have curbside trash pickup, and so they were able to add that with the new tax revenue they got from a wind firm A huge benefit to be able to give that to the community And then a lot of communities are setting up community funds with a steering committee That is able to decide how the new revenue should be used I think one of the biggest things we’re seeing in a lot of our states is the ability to not have to increase local levies And the ability to pay down existing debt So again, just a lot of different flexibility in what a community is able to do with new revenue coming in A couple of the challenges County commissioners or local folks have some increased transparency about how the revenue is being spent So if local folks understand that there’s a lot more money coming into their community They want to know how that’s being spent, and there just needs to be transparency on that And then of course, there’s always going to be competing interests and ideas about how that new revenue should be spent So both kind of upsides for, what should we do with this new money And then, some increased transparency needs then, and sharing of ideas about how the revenue should be spent A good problem overall to have, probably I want to just spend a minute about ongoing issues that we’re seeing in Indiana for wind farm development The industry has been meeting regularly this past year with military officials to really talk about And keep an open line of communication with military folks on radar and citing issues regarding wind farms Just to keep the dialogue open to make sure that military officials understand kind of citing requirements Understand what the industry is doing with the FAA, federal agency that regulates citing and grants permits for wind farms So just to keep that dialogue open Legislation, because we’re still in the legislative session, this is not unique to Indiana But we are seeing in all of our states across the Midwest kind of a legislation addressing setbacks and citings for wind farms That’s kind of an ongoing perennial issue It keeps us on our toes with education we need to do with new legislators And others to really talk about what the industry does with effective citing practices and setbacks Addressing health and safety issues, and how the industry is really being proactive and responsible and taking those Those issues seriously We do have one bill out there that is pertinent right now to decisions that the regulatory body in Indiana is making It would limit the ability of the IURC to approve projects above 250 megawatts And so we’re working on that bill right now We wanna make sure that wind and solar projects are able to move forward in Indiana, they’re able to get sited, and contracts are able to get approved, power purchase agreements with the utility As you can see, the utilities have really signaled that they want to procure more wind, and so we’re working on the barriers to make sure that utilities are able to move forward And then again, not unique to Indiana, local opposition

We’re doing more work at the local level all the time to really address concerns, to talk about benefits, and to make sure there’s good information out to communities about setbacks Again, about what the industry is doing to address any concerns there might be Visual impacts are kind of the changing viewscape It’s not a new issue, again, it comes up in a lot of the states across the midwest, and in other areas of the country And then just concerns about lower property values regarding having a wind farm as a neighbor, is kind of a perennial issue that comes up as well So I just wanted to acknowledge that there are issues As Janet said, these projects sometimes are not without controversy And so we are, with the industry, working on providing good information on all of these issues to local communities Do it with different partners and local folks So again, Clean Grid Alliance is talking to county commissioners across our footprint We have a lot of blogs, and blog posts, and fact sheets on our website And I think, in talking with Andrea and Janet, depending on the questions that come up here today, Clean Grid Alliance can offer some additional materials and links to materials that might be helpful to the group here today in a follow-up email And I’m going to, I think, stop there, and turn it over, and look forward to answering any questions that you might have >> Great, thank you, Beth Steve, you’re up >> Hello? >> Yep, we hear you >> Okay I’m sorry So I’m live? >> You are >> Okay, hi My name is Steve Burton I’m County Commissioner, as was said before One thing I wanna clear up to start with, we do not own a wind farm My wife and I live in the wind farm My parents have turbines on their ground But as we work through this wind company, I just wanna make it clear that we don’t own the wind farm I just happen to be a County Commissioner I live in a county that has a lot of wind turbines in that, so I hope that didn’t send anybody off thinking, geez, there’s not some transparency that needs to be there, but We’ve been involved in wind farms since 2004 We had the opportunity to have three different wind farms try to locate in White County at that particular time The good thing is, we had the opportunity to choose what we felt was the best wind farm for the county, for our land owners, and that’s, we’ve been successful with it Benton County, our neighboring county to the west, was the first county in Indiana to have a wind farm built in their county We followed the year after that We had, again, great opportunity to watch maybe some of the mistakes, some of the adjustments we made, as Benton County kind of went through the first year, and I feel we kept wise and used them as an example, I’m very appreciative of that Then come up with a better product for us and for the county Benton County, they choose to use, I’ll use the term shotgun, where the turbines are scattered out at their most efficient As they were developing that, our land owners felt that it was less invasive on their property, which this is all about Without the landowners, you wouldn’t have a wind farm, and chose a linear effect, which costs a little more for the company because of the line cost, but it worked out a lot better for the landowners As we went through the first year, of the first phase We made some setback adjustments, kinda opposite of what’s happening today, but our setbacks become less with adjoining landowners that didn’t involve houses, that allowed placement of turbines in an area that was best suited for

landowners, and also some drainage issues The, one of the Excuse me, we’ve had a lot of success, obviously, and we’ve had a lot of success with the same company, I believe, and I’ll get the numbers messed up, where it’s somewhere around 300, or 550 twin turbines were over 600 megawatts in our county This company does have some farm in the adjacent county, so I’m kinda not throwing those numbers in there We’re currently looking down the road at the possibility of another 100 megawatts that will be in my cell area Most of ours goes to the PG&M So there’s some diversity and there’s some different people working But there’s some big companies involved in purchase power agreement I’ll just throw out there, I don’t think it’s a secret, I hope it’s not Cummins Engine has invested some of their money in renewable energy here with the wind farms I believe White County receives a little over 2.4 million, maybe close to 2 million, 400 thousand a year from personal property tax from the wind farms This does not include the payments that the landowners themselves receive That’s above and beyond That’s the tax dollars that come to us, that are taking the place of some other landowner, some other business that would be paying those property taxes if it weren’t for them That number continues to increase every year We did debate the wind farms to start, well we debated all of them So, the property taxes each year increase by 10% of what their value is If you’re familiar with the abatement, so, as I talked today, we could quit building But the personal property taxes they pay will continue our last phase of the year before the last eight years from now So when it’s over, it’s not really over, they’re still sending money to the county, which is greatly appreciated I’ve been into the assessor’s office, one of the questions is, what’s my plan value? Is it going down or is it going up or what’s happening with it? Like kind of a joke, and if you walked in with me, they’d look at me and I’d mention why I’m here And they’d say, go away, Steve, because we can’t find on paper that shows us that the property is decreased or increased There’s little blips, and that happens, that goes back to our tax assessors They can’t show that residential or personal property or real estate is being affected by the wind farms Or the area that the wind farms are in The other thing I love about wind farms is the money stays locally Yes, it is a company that doesn’t exist in Indiana other than they own the wind farm But they make land payments to the landlords whether they’re absentee, or whether they’re local Or whether that’s the ground they make a living off of, that money stays in this county, it doesn’t get shipped off to a big corporation And you only get the benefits of having new employees, this wind farm keeps adding employees Again, I don’t want to tie it down to a number, but approximately is employing 60 workers to maintain these And as they add turbines, they add employees, that was kind of a benefit to us because those jobs pay pretty well Somebody young can come in and make a career out of this, basically, a sustaining job and a career And you don’t see a lot of that around here She mentioned, Beth mentioned the computers in the schools and the local jobs kind of jumped down here a little bit That’s one thing I like to do for that is, wind farms aren’t for every county Tippecanoe County, which is the county south of us, has chosen not to have wind farms in their county Because they feel their county is best suited to industry and housing, and that’s great, wind farms aren’t for every place But there is a lot of places that can have wind farms and still not be invasive to the local environment

So I’m not saying that everybody should have turbines, but I’m not saying that they shouldn’t have the opportunity to do it themselves I like the term, home rule, this kind of came up a couple years ago, the December before last Where, as commissioners, we were kind of taking some heat from the fact that commissioners were making money off of this After the first phase, when we had no property involved in the wind farm I recused myself from voting on any issues that came up concerning any wind farms that were built after that Again, my wife and I don’t own any turbines, ground that has turbines on it, but my parents do But I still felt it was necessary that I recuse myself Part of my experience here, going back for ten years, they say, well, wind turbines are going to cause this, this, and this You’re welcome to come out, you’re welcome to talk to our neighbors, become part of the community About two weeks ago, I had a gentleman from Illinois call, and said, hey, I know you’ve got wind farms, can I come out and look at them? I think the wind speed was around 12 miles an hour, maybe gusting to 13 We pulled up on a wind turbine, close to my house here, and he says, where’s the whoosh sound? And I said, well, can’t you hear it? And he said, no, I can’t hear it, and that was kind of a phenomenon to me Usually you can hear a small whoosh sound from it, and that’s what we expect But that was a day to where the actual air speed around us drowned out the actual noise of the wind turbine So there’s an example of an opinion And part of our our biggest fight from the county is to try to deal with, well, I’ll basically get right to it, is space mud All I can do is give you experience of what has happened in the ten years Anything else, you’re going to have to make your own decision The one thing that really tipped me over, got me to the side of, this is what we’ve got to do My father passed away in ’11, and was a farmer all his life And when the people come knocking on his door saying, we want to develop a wind farm here, are you interested, would you sign up? He came to me and said, here’s what they’re asking, do you think this is something we can do? And I said, dad, we’re not doing it for you, probably not doing it for me We’re doing it for my grandkids, and my grandkid’s kids and their future Everybody talks about, I love green energy, we should be doing it, but let’s not do it in my backyard I believe at that point I returned to him, and I said, dad, this is something that needs to be in our backyard And it is in our backyards, and it’s the best thing out there for right now There may be something here in the future that comes along that is better than wind farms, and more efficient than wind farms But we need to do this now, and not wait until later So, that kind of concludes my speech here, I probably missed a ton of stuff I’d be glad to talk to anybody about this that has some questions, back to you, Shannon >> Yes, Steve, thank you so much And let me apologize for misstating your relationship to the wind farm And I can understand why you wanted to be super clear about that, so, thank you for correcting that We are starting to get some questions in the chat box, and I’ll ask Andrea if you’re willing to kind of facilitate that But before I do that, I want to just say that, Steve, you should be bottled and taken on the road, [LAUGH] As an exemplar of a public servant that’s thinking about the community at large And I wrote down as you were talking, this is something that needs to be in our backyards and it is What a great sentiment for the things we need to be thinking about today So Andrea, do you want to manage the questions here, would that be all right? >> Sure, no problem at all So I will start reading the ones that have come in via chat And also remind the audience that if you are on your computer, you can unmute yourself and ask the question verbally if you prefer So of our questions that have come in so far, we’ve had a couple that are related to tax benefits So one, Quentin said, I’m a little confused about the tax benefits due to wind farms not applied to the 1, 2 or 3% property tax caps

I would refer to my professionals, but no, the wind farm doesn’t affect our tax caps Our tax caps are still there, and we’re in a better position because of that, because of the wind farms offsetting other taxpayers I’m not explaining that well, I would refer at a later date, have you talk to somebody that can explain better than what I’m doing But no, there shouldn’t, the wind farm doesn’t affect the property tax cap I believe >> Okay, and a follow up question related to that is Is there an additional tax that county council needs to adopt for wind or solar projects? >> What we have done, which may be where this question’s leading to, we have an economic development agreement We worked really hard that year, that Benton County had started And we knew these other two companies wanted to come in to build our wind ordinance And very, well, no counties in Indiana at that time, at that point in time had their own wind ordinance And one of the things that we chose to do was an economic development agreement We abated the wind farms, and, as I said, those keep kicking in, keep giving more money each year besides what they paid last year Because the economic development money was money that was used to offset maybe the ground being used for different reasons Other opportunities the county wants to use, we’re using that to devote toward bringing in businesses Not necessarily to bring in businesses, but to try to have good places for our local youth, our kids are growing up Try to keep them in the community and offer them good jobs That probably wouldn’t be here if it wasn’t for this incentive that we have with money So I think the economic development agreement is what they’re geared to And that differs from county to county, and what the county’s needs are >> Okay, so it seems like, so there’s communities that receive tax dollars from wind projects But those taxes are set up by each individual country >> Yeah, yes, I’m going to say that each county has to figure out where they want the money to go, what they want to ask for And then how they want to distribute that I’m going to use the economic development, it doesn’t have to be economic development money But that’s what I love about wind farms is you can choose to help your schools There’s a lot of different areas, or you can do a multitude of different things Benton County does lots of different things because they have a lot of wind turbines and are able to do it So, there is no one way on fix that a county has to go to But look at counties like ours and like theirs and other counties and choose what is best for your county >> Beth, would you add anything to that discussion on taxes? >> No, I would just say that I agree that I think Steve talked about the use of the tax money I think one of the questions is, is there anything additional that a county council need to do for taxes? I don’t think so, I mean, sometimes companies will ask for an abatement They will ask for different things and the county has to decide kind of, what does the deal look like? What are they getting? What are they giving up? What are the terms? So, but I don’t think there is anything new that a county needs to adopt >> Yeah, and I will share this resource via email this week But we have a case study in our Environmental Resilience Institute toolkit about the wind farms in Benton County And a couple of contracts they developed with the wind companies to help reduce wear and tear on roads Which can happen as you’re bringing in all this heavy equipment to set up the wind turbines, I’m making sure >> There are road agreements, there are lots of things that the developer has to do, they have to mitigate any impacts to roads They, many times, the roads are left in better condition than when they began because they get updated So I just want to make sure, residents don’t have to pay new taxes If the wind farm comes in and develops, they’re the ones responsible for paying the taxes It’s not anybody who has a turbine on your property Or the wind farm, or the wind developer owns the turbines and

so they have to pay the tax >> Right, and so there’s a couple of agreements there it sounds like, so there’s the private land owner or the homeowner, who says Or farm owner, who says, yes, you can come in, wind company, and put some turbines on my land And then the wind turbine company pays the land owner for that service And they pay the county with those taxes that are agreed upon >> Yes >> Okay >> You’re exactly right, that’s how it’s distributed here >> Okay, great, so a couple of other questions that have come in, one is for Beth So Kimberly is wondering what bill we need to watch in the legislature right now And she said it was mentioned, but she was wondering if you know the bill number >> My slide did have the bill number, I think it’s SB 4 I can’t remember it off the top of my head, but it is on my slide, and I believe the slides will be shared or posted after the webinar >> Is it 472, Beth? >> Yes, yes, that’s it >> Senate Bill 472 >> Yep >> Yeah, and we will show the slides in an email later this week, along with a few additional resources So I know somebody else had a question that they were really enthralled by your graphs, Beth And so they were curious to look at those again a bit more closely So another question that’s come in, is How can local government officials prepare for wind projects when the community has organized against it? So for example, Mary asks, has there been grassroots campaigning using misinformation about the negatives of wind turbines? For example, the flicker effect? >> I don’t know the answer, and I’ve been asked that question a lot Because we have counties that are either adjacent to us, or several counties away that are going through that How is it happening in White County without resistance, and why is the resistance so heavy in some areas? I don’t know, I think everybody would like to know that answer, it’ll make all our lives easier and less frustrating All I can keep saying is, wind farms aren’t for every county I’ll bring the back the home rule statement that I think these decisions need to be made locally I personally don’t feel that my representatives that are in Indianapolis and don’t live within the wind farms And don’t live with them day to day, my neighbors that are in the wind farms feel that these decisions need to be made local So homeowners should be an effect there I know some of these bills and these summer sessions were talked about at the state level, they should be making these decisions But this is something that’s local If your community doesn’t want them, I don’t know the secret to try to convince them otherwise Other than my statement of we’ve lived through these ten years and proof is in the pudding, sorry >> So I would just add that there are levels to this, the answer to this question, there are lots of tools that a community can use I think if you’re talking about decisions that local county officials have to make about permits You want to understand what’s in the application and make sure that you understand what the wind farm developer is proposing And kind of all the ins and outs, so you want to be well educated I think if it’s a kind of a misinformation campaign, I can think of a couple of things I think that making sure you have kind of a resource of good peer reviewed factual information that can be shared Kind of as another point of information, information at your fingertips is one thing that you can do Sometimes local communities have brought in kind of a third party expert to host a meeting to really talk about the pros and cons You can invite or take tours to existing wind farms, like Steve has been talking about And talk to folks who have lived among them to see what kind of experiences and what are the positives and negatives So I think there’s lots of tactics and strategies, but I think if you’re really talking about kind of a misinformation campaign

I think the best thing you can do is have as many good resources that you can use To illustrate different points in the conversation as possible >> Good point >> So those are just ideas >> So that brings up another question is, so in White County, specifically Have there been any complaints about noise or health impacts or other similar concerns with the wind farms? >> Health impacts and noise, no, the first year, there’s a particular situation to where, known as flicker A landowner felt that she was being affected by the flicker, and so we referred her to the wind company And part of our agreement, and our wind ordinance is, it’s their job Their responsibility to step up and do the best they can in the situation They’ve made some minor adjustments the best that they could as far as curtains And flicker in your house, in my particular house, doesn’t happen all the year As the sun moves, as you go from summer to winter, with the sun changes, you don’t get the shadowing effect So, generally it’s never a 24/7, well, it wouldn’t be 24/7 actually, I’m sorry, it’s never an issue that the flicker is there all the time It’s seemed that the issue got resolved and I haven’t heard anything else about that We had some issues where, well, it goes back to misinformation Our first year, before we started building, we had a lot of people scared that really bad things were going to happen And since that, we’ve had hardly any negative comments as we’ve moved through different phases As I was saying, we’ve gone through six phases So those six different times, people had the opportunity to comment and voice their concerns More of it is a landowner issue of who’s getting turbines and who’s not, is kind of where it comes from And that’s not a government problem, that’s a private property owner problem But anyway, very, very little in comparison to what I’m hearing other counties say right now >> I would just chime in that I think one of the most effective things that a development company or a wind farm developer can do Is establish a local office with hours or ability to sign up and have people get their questions answered That fear of the unknown is a pretty powerful force, and so, it goes back to credibility of the wind developer Having somebody available, being open and transparent in answering questions Providing resources or, again, taking people to wind farms where they can see something operating And have a chance to ask someone who’s living among the wind farm, and the citing It goes back to making sure the developer’s doing their citing well at the very beginning, to overcome some of these issues Finally, Steve I just have a quick question Do you guys in your permit have a minimum or maximum hours of shadow flicker, that a developer can do in their wind farm? >> Not in my, I’m almost positive I will check and see, but I’m almost positive we don’t, because it’s really not come up other than that one situation >> Okay, sometimes there, in permits, there is 30 hours a year or there is some number that the developer has to meet >> Yeah, that sounds like a great idea there >> So we have two more questions that have come in, so one is, not all areas of Indiana have good wind possibilities So how do you know if your county is a good place for wind? And then, from there, local governments typically, and maybe you can speak to this Beth But, I don’t know if local governments actually set up wind contracts for local government land I think it’s more common, at least in Indiana, that it’s on farm land So that contract needs to take place between the land owner and the wind company So how would that get started after you find out whether you have what you need? >> So you need three things to get started to do a wind farm, you need land

You need ability to connect to a transmission line, so you need to be able to deliver the power And you need an optic, you need somebody to purchase your output, so you look for those three things, and try to line them all up I have heard more wind farms developed on private land than on county land I will say that I think with solar, counties may have land that may be applicable for solar farms They may want the revenue, they may want to offer those to developers So I do agree that private land is more typical for wind >> Okay >> Beth gives great answers, I hate to follow her all the time >> [LAUGH] >> The one thing that we have here in White County that kind of made my job easier is we have myself, and we also have PGA in our area So we’ve got Two different systems that are going to carry the electricity produced in different directions, so that makes us attractive Plus, PGM early on, had some big lines already installed, and so all we had to do was access them If you’re a good candidate for wind, you probably would have already been, this doesn’t sound nice, and I apologize You probably don’t have probably the best wind But eventually they will come and be looking for it everywhere because it’s just becoming more popular And there’s a lot more turbines now, so the perfect answer is, location, location, location >> Yeah, I think that the one thing I would add to that is, with new turbine technology to pick up lower wind speeds Sometimes if you have a moderate wind resource versus a screaming wind resource You still may be an economical project if you have the demand for the power and you’re close to the infrastructure to deliver it So technology of the turbines is changing all the time And allowing new areas that may have a lower wind speed to become viable for wind farm development >> And Beth, you’re so right, when we were negotiating with this particular company, and not all wind farms are the same All I can say is, to county, is, do your homework, know who you’re dealing with, look at the past situations And the good ones will pop out, but as we were negotiating this first phase Basically they were telling us the technology we’d be using today, they would not be using the same technology And I’m not using the right term, Beth, correct me That in ten years the advancement is going to be so great And each ten years, the efficiency is so much better than what it was ten years ago, but you’ve got to start somewhere >> Well, so we’re a little bit over time here, but I want to ask one more question that came in from Tim And Tim, we’ll try to send an email, in our inner email that we send out afterwards, we’ll try to send a list of companies that do wind We, of course, won’t promote one over the other, because we don’t have that knowledge, but we’ll provide a list of a few So Tim’s question is, he says, I’ve heard that the turbine noise affects cows, specifically their breeding, is there any truth to this? >> I’m sorry, I didn’t hear the question >> He says, I’ve heard that turbine noise affects cows, specifically their breeding, is there any truth to this? >> I’m sorry, I’m not, are we talking about owls? What are we talking about? >> Cows >> Cows >> Cows? >> Cattle >> [LAUGH] There are cattle around our county And even some horse owners in phase one and phase two had concern about their horses And there was a legitimate concern because they’d heard things, there’s no talk about it, at all I’m not saying that everybody’s perfect, but, again, it’s like property tax, there’s usually other things involved there I’m not aware of the cows or the horse issue, I’ve heard of that, but not in this county >> Okay >> And I would have to send out an expert in this Either I’ve heard more concern with transmission lines,

quite frankly, than I have with wind farms >> Okay, all right, well, we are over time, so, I’m going to wrap us up, and there’s a few questions that came in that we couldn’t get to But we’ll try to get answers to those and send it out in a follow up email So thank you Beth and thank you Steve for spending some time with us today This was so useful and we will have a recording of this webinar that you can share with your friends or come back to I know we covered a lot of resources today so hopefully that will be a nice resource for you Thank you so much for joining us and we hope you’ll register for some of our future webinars, thank you so much >> Thank you >> Thanks, everybody >> Thanks