The Traction Book: 5 Steps To Traction & Business Growth – by Gabriel Weinberg and Justin Mares

good afternoon everyone this is Nana from tracking 202 and today I have Justin Maris from the traction book he’s a co-author with by Gabriel Weinberg who you may know as the founder of go today we’ve got a really informative training for you I thought that would do something that’s out of the normal affiliate type training but still something that’s highly relevant to your interests so Justin why don’t you take it away and we can get started awesome so so basically I am the co-author of a book that came out about three weeks ago it’s called traction book it’s about how screwed ups and marketers can get traction toward their businesses outside of that previously I was running growth so I was in charge of sales and marketing at a SAS developer tools company we got acquired by Rackspace for eight figures about a year and a half ago and you know I sense of left Rackspace and worked on pushing out this book so basically you know I just want to go through a quick like 10 to 15 minute a run-through of some of the ideas in the book some of the principles that I’ve used and other successful founders of use to approach and think about the process of getting traction mm-hm and then we’ll wrap up with questions Q&A and like would love to dig in and hear what what some of you guys are working on all right sounds good good yeah and I hope you’re going to go over attraction means in your context because traction is not a word that’s used much in the affiliate industry I know a lot of police yeah yeah so the first thing that I want to cover is exactly what traction is and so traction in you know it’s used pretty often in startups but essentially what it is it’s real customer and growth or real growth on a metric that is important to your business so if you’re trying to your revenue traction would mean a growth in the amount of revenue you have coming in if you’re trying to get a bunch of installs for like a mobile app or something like that traction would be the number of people you have installing your app and actually using it and so when we say you know get traction we mean getting meaningful it’s like driving meaningful customer interactions or revenue in an area that you care about and then you’re trying to optimize so for a lot of internet marketers you know that might be getting a bunch of people to sign up for your email lists or increasing the number of people that end up buying after you do a product push or whatever it is so the what I want to cover is like that is essentially what traction is and then we quickly go over how some of the top startups in the world have approached this process of getting traction and then how that same process is actually applicable to smaller businesses internet marketers all of these kinds of businesses that care about and worry about how to get more customers because I mean at the core that’s what a that’s what a lot of people want to figure out you know that’s why a lot of internet marketing even exists you’re like the product creators just need help marketing their businesses and so so the first thing I want to do is this guy is a quote as an amazing quote this guy’s invol he founded a company called angel list and he has a quote where he says traction is like the supreme deafen the Supreme Court definition of port in that you know it when you see it like if your startup or you know email list or whatever is growing rapidly if your product is selling well you know the feeling you know that things are going well like you know that you’re getting traction so it you know though it may change across different kinds of businesses it also is it’s a meaningful thing that often the founders marketers whoever understands when things are going well when they are so the first thing that I want to cover is that there are essentially 19 different channels that startups founders marketers can use to acquire customers so if you go to traction book calm you can see we have all the channels listed at the bottom of the website but basically we did a bunch of research we talked to over 40 founders we have the journalists students research for us and we found that all companies essentially acquire customers through 19 different ways and so these 19 channels they basically you know startups have use them at one time

or another to grow us into a successful business so some startups have grown on the backs of getting a bunch of PR doing partnerships and the like others have grown by using affiliates or doing paid acquisition you know it just really depends on the type of startup you have how much money you make per customer and all these different things which we can get into later but essentially there are only 19 ways that startups marketers can acquire customers so what this means for you as a marketer is that there’s a finite number of ways that you can actually acquire someone you know like and this is a good thing because as we’ll see we’ll get into the process that most successful startups don’t come out of the gate with a surefire user acquisition strategy instead they go through a product process of figuring out what customer acquisition channels make sense for them and what actually moves the needle for them and for their business so that brings me to the next slide so people I’m sure you all know this as well especially working with customers or people who own products I’m going to use affiliates that a lot of people I would say most honestly just try things blindly like you’ll have a product you’ll have a marketing strategy whatever it is and they’ll just throw things at the wall like they’ll read a blog post that HubSpot turns out and try posting something on their blog they do that once a month in then surprise when that doesn’t work or they try running Facebook ads and spend 50 or $100 on it a month like there’s just most people don’t approach marketing with a sense of strategy of like here is what we’re going to try to do and we are going to go with what figured what works the best like if you talk to a founder or someone about you know what is on our product roadmap like almost everyone can say okay we’re going to build this feature in this feature and then we’re going to do this if you ask someone the same thing around marketing like you know what channels are you going to try what experiments you’re going to run what do you think is likely the best way for you to acquire customers oftentimes they’re just speechless and so rather you know rather than just trying things blindly we are advocating an approach which I’ll get to later called the bullseye framework which is a very easy way to help you distill and focus in on the one or two traction channels that will actually make sense for your business so what we found after doing our research is that founders and marketers often fall into groupthink so if you’re a marketer oftentimes you are focused on and only thinking about channels that you have experience with so you know a lot of times that means that you are doing the same things that everyone else is paid acquisition you’re doing content marketing you’re doing affiliates whatever it is and so what this does is this can be this can work really well in some cases if you’re really good at you know essentially beating a competition optimizing the heck out of certain channels but where this doesn’t work is if you have a different product a different customer segment and you can only you can only try channels that you’ve used in the past or that you know your competition is using so one of the strongest things and we had multiple people that we interviewed say this including Paul English who started the website you know he mentioned that if you can acquire customers in a way that your competitors aren’t or can’t that’s just a massive competitive advantage and so you know we talked about it’s very very easy for founders and marketers to be biased towards channels that they have experience with and so you know if what you should do is you basically go through this process where again we cover it in the bullseye framework where you evaluate each of the 19 traction channels that might make sense for your business and then really do a deep dive and run tests on the ones that seem the most promising as it’s really hard to predict which channels will work in which well so Peter Thiel is a billionaire like venture capitalist first investor in facebook started PayPal and Palantir just a very successful guy overall and so he has this quote where he talks about how most businesses actually get zero distribution channels to work poor distribution and not product is the number one cause of startup failure and

so we’re talking about in this in this book is that we recommend going through this framework which all gets you now called the bullseye framework that will help you drill down and figure out what one or two channel will work for your business and will get you that growth that you need in terms of you know revenue users whatever metric you’re trying to optimize for this is the bullseye framework and so this framework is a five-step process that basically shows you how to figure out what customer acquisition channels will marketing channels make sense for the product you’re working on so the first thing that we talked about is brainstorming so we essentially suggest that you go through each of the 19 traction channels and say you know what tactics within each of these channels could make sense and could reasonably reasonable shot of working for your business for your product whatever and so after going through this you should have an idea of you know here are the 19 channels and some sub ideas within each of those channels like Facebook Ads you could have something like let’s try custom audiences do look like audiences do all you know internationalization of ads whatever it is and so in the first step you brainstorm specific ways that you can use each of these traction channels to get traction in the next step you basically rank the ideas that you had in the first step and try and dial in on three to four channels and ideas within those channels that you think are promising and could make an impact on your business and so for example this might be you know if you’re selling an info product one thing you could try is like recruiting new affiliates that could be one thing to test in the affiliate sphere another thing would be maybe running Facebook ads around what a you know targeting an audience that historically has purchased the types of products you created in the past and the third could be running a giveaway or a contest just to see how well that that works to drive new email subscribers so once you have you your list of ideas you essentially rank them in order of the ones that are most likely to work after going through that you test them so this is a lot like the Lean Startup approach if you guys have heard or familiar with that I’ve not it’s totally fine but essentially you have this list of ideas say you know running Facebook ads targeting international audiences so what you want to do then is you would want to test that hypothesis that you know that idea that you have that will nc will it work or won’t it to require new customers once you go through this test then you can evaluate okay did this traction channel did this tactic within this traction channel did it work like did it drive meaningful business did it was it profitable was it unable to reach as many people as we thought you know did it work and/or so why or why not and so after going through a couple of these different tests you know testing the top two or three ranked ideas that you have then you want to figure out what works and so at this point your goal is to find the one or two effective channels that work for your business and ring as much traction as you can out of those channels and so in that in this case it means you know you have tested and let’s say like Facebook Ads doing internationalization how it works really well for you if that’s the case then what you want to do is double down on Facebook Ads as a channel and spend time seeing if you can optimize and improve your current spend on Facebook so that might be testing you add creative testing new ad copy adding you know targeting new groups through Facebook targeting different languages you know all of these different kinds of things so to recap you essentially go from having a plan for how to acquire customers too now you’ve run tests in multiple channels you’re working down you’re working on and doubling down on the one that seems most promising the one or two and then you’re working to optimize the tactics within that channel that will allow you to acquire the most as many customers as you possibly can so doing this process is something it utilizes something we call the 50% rule and so what this rule is is essentially that early stage startups marketers and

founders should be spending half their time on product and half their time on marketing that you know if if you guys as affiliates are pushing other people’s products I would say that that rule comes down to spend half of your time researching different audiences like figuring out where these audiences hang out figuring out you know what what they do online what content they consume all of that and then the other half working on getting traction within those audiences and those communities where your target market resides so this is a quote by Marc Andreessen you know this guy’s worth like 800 million dollars is something crazy and so he runs a VC firm very well-regarded called andreessen horowitz he’s also the founder of Netscape which is the first internet browser essentially and so he says and this is his quote you know many entrepreneurs who build great products simply don’t have a good distribution strategy which is the number one reason why they as one of the top VC firms in the world pass on founders and startups that they would otherwise like to back so after you’ve gone through this process I want to cover a few things so basically you go through this process you figure out what channels make sense for you which ones have tested well which ones seem promising and then what you know before doing this whole thing you want to figure out what is your goal you know is it to sell a hundred thousand dollars worth of a product is it to hit ten thousand dollars in monthly recurring revenue as a SAS business which is my background is it to get like a million users for some mobile app so figuring out what your goal is will determine all of your actions as well as what channels you focus on you know if your goal is to get to a million users doing something like throwing meetups or conferences or whatever probably doesn’t make sense because that’s just not going to scale very well whereas doing stuff like advertising focusing on morality building massive email lists doing coke promotions all of these things over time can actually lead to hitting a million users so once you have a goal you want to work backwards and figure out the activities that will get you to that goal we call this moving the needle so what this means is only focusing on activities that will get you to where you want to go in a meaningful amount of time so again the use are to use our earlier example let’s say you wanted to sell a hundred thousand dollars worth of product if that product is you know $50 or $100 doing something like cold calling or inside sales or god forbid like even going toward a door or something you know doesn’t make any sense for what you’re for where you’re trying to go like even if you were to sell you know even if you were to sell like five-ish of this product a day that would only get you to like 500 dollars a day which then means you just have an insanely long period of time before you can actually hit your hundred thousand dollar goal and in practice like this sounds obvious but a lot of marketers and founders fail to think about this where they’ll do things like putting on a meet-up tweeting it people on social media trying to build their Twitter followers and they never think you know what if I’m trying to get to a hundred thousand dollars in revenue how does increasing my Twitter followers by a thousand people or increasing the number of times someone tweets my content by you know twenty getting 20 more tweets per content share how does that get me closer to my hundred thousand article it doesn’t I mean it just it doesn’t move the needle often and so this is something we really encourage people to think about is like only focus on channels and the tactics within these channels that will get you meaningful traction and will get you closer to your traction goal so that that leads me to the next thing which is this idea that focusing on traction and product early on so focusing on building out a product while also focusing on traction means that when it comes time to launch you have a product that you know how people are buying it how they’re coming across it and it’s a product that people have more exposure to because you’ve been marketing it and gotten feedback from your first customers that you acquire through whatever traction channel so this uh you know this may be less relevant for some affiliates depending on you know if you’re selling other people’s products versus building your own but if you’re building your own

you know testing how your audience responds to a product that you built versus testing how an audience that you acquired by through Facebook Ads responds to the same product those are very very different things and will make the product a lot more valuable if you bacon the feedback from the second group to the product when you launch it so the the last thing I want to cover is that Paul Graham you started an accelerator called Y Combinator and they’re a seed stage startup accelerator but he says that a start-up is a company designed to grow fast so the only essential thing that a start-up has to do is growth everything else we associate with startups follows from growth yeah is there music playing no do you hear music yeah I’m not sure what’s happening anyway that’s basically all I had for you guys so that is my quick slideshow and I’d love to jump into questions and you know hear what you guys think about everything all right yeah I do hear background music as well oh and never that’s coming from anyway um yeah if you have questions we could do one of two things you can type the questions into the Q&A section or if you’d like to actually speak out your questions if you’ve got a mic available you could also mention that in the Q&A and I will unmute you so that you can ask your question directly to Justin and we’ll take questions on all the stuff that was covered here if you’ve already read the book and you have questions on topics that were covered in other chapters you’re free to ask that as well or you can also we can also do questions from just general experience from Justin’s the past stuff that Justin did with with growth office at his last company so yeah we’re pretty open on the kinds of questions that we’ll take so um we’ve got a question here from Stuart and he said he’s he’d like to get your thoughts on creation creating initial trajectory okay so could could you be a little more specific like creating what exactly you’re trying to create or get initial traction for you’re just reaching for a reply back on that one install it if you want to speak directly I can also unmute you if you’d like I’m gonna one meet you alone maybe yes I can hand go it okay thanks yeah I was thinking about the initial trajectory meeting you know when you’re first starting up you need to get like a critical mass build you know and so you got a select get the channels that will be most effective to get that initial lift so that you know you can get out there be known and get that critical mass so you can get more people you know customers and everything and maybe that helps you figure out you know which channels are going to be most effective you know for the distribution of the product so I was thinking maybe add some insights on that yeah so yeah so a couple things so I mean often you know often there’s a lot of confusion like people trying to figure out what to do to get your first you know five customers or is that kind of like what you’re what you’re talking about like how do I get yeah five or ten cows exactly cool so oftentimes that is much less of a traction channel driven thing and it’s much more just like leveraging your existing network doing cold emails to people that uh you know that are in the space or that would be your potential customers and just figuring out you know like because what you want really is not just your first five customers but you want feedback on what you’re building and to see if your potential customers are people that you can reach details like what they can give me what you’re building you know what I mean yes so a lot of times like I try and help startups like for you until you get like your first 10 or 15 customers don’t even worry about marketing channels and like all of this kind of stuff

like because that’s so early that you don’t even know if you have a product that other people want like they become using the like surveys things like that honestly just like emailing them setting up calls sending them over product demos and just trying to get their thoughts on what they think of what you’re doing you know because they’re good bad do they like it not and then once you get that feedback then you have the messaging you can use the messaging that the things that they’ve said they like about your product and take that to more people when you start acquiring people that you don’t know through like a paid acquisition and whatnot links vision because yes thank you I’m talking and I guess I was muted I yet thanks a lot for your questions to it and I wanted to know if there any more questions from you you guys out there I had a few comments as well so while we’re waiting for questions to come in I guess I’ll ask Justin what some of the questions and stuff so I was wondering like if you noticed that sometimes there’s a wrong kind of traction we’re like a startups focusing on a certain kind of traction where it’s completely wrong for them yeah so there that’s for sure happens I mean if you think about you know just if you think about the couple companies like everyone it acquires customers where they don’t actually want you know like they have customers that don’t end up paying them don’t end up kind of converting for a trial they get refunds or whatever and so all you’re trying to figure out is what um you know how can you minimize the number of customers like these that you get and more than that you know how can you make sure that the customers you do have actually convert and they paying you and the like so I would just I think that one one thing that starts and marketers too often don’t measure is you know they measured the total number of customers that sign up through a given channel but often they don’t measure like the revenue generated on a channel basis right so what that means is like a lot of times you could be spending AdWords month like money on Google AdWords and just acquiring customers that never spend any money with you you know right right yeah that’s something that I had noticed when I was actively running affiliate campaigns was that sometimes you may be measuring opt-in rate for an email list and making a decisions based on that when the ideal measurement could be actual sales and conversions after they opt-in so you may have a channel that may opt in less it’s actually spending spending more money than the people who are opting in more yes exactly alright cool I’ve got a question question question from Vance I’m going to unmute you bandit I’m back on I was too excited about me to myself that I give me one second ban hole I’m mute you okay Donna yes you your life sorry about that trying to fan out here yeah so you guys talking about customer attribution is there any particular data platform that you recommend to measure engagement and revenue recognition for different sources of traction that make sense yeah absolutely so I would highly recommend Mixpanel if you just want to kind of like plug and play solution out of the box otherwise if you want if you have a developer or engineer your own staff keen io k ee n dot IO is a pretty it’s a really incredible tool it just requires a lot of technical configuration to get set up but then it’s awesome so it’s all just I looked into Mixpanel kind of it doesn’t seem like it’s very robust in terms of attribution but is it am I just not using it correctly yeah so you can add add different tags where you can say like someone signs up for from Adwords or something you can like append the URL string that they signed up that to their user and so that allows you to like query it and see on a user and channel basis like how everything is working okay it does require a little bit of custom configuration I would shoot them an email but uh but yeah overall I really like mixdown okay awesome thank

you yeah and we have played around with Mixpanel as well and I go along with what Justin said in terms of actually setting it up it may take a bit of instrumentation to get things right but they’ve been pretty helpful as well but once you’ve got that done you get some really good insights from them but definitely not as active on there as I should be yeah I think it’s just going to do a little bit of tinkering because I’m working on a site where there’s multiple revenue events where it’s different amounts for each user and then I want to track back so I guess I just got to go in there and and play with it a bit more yeah and are you trying to track like the long-term life that Bali oh man yeah yeah different than the normal size forums where you might have like you know the same amount rebilling each month like it’s a different amount for each user like they could bring in different amounts depending on how much they use application mmhmm yeah I think you could tie hook that into their event system and so when transactions happen you’d fire fire events to start tracking man okay yeah I’ll start I’ll look into a king that I owed I was trying to have I was trying to like have some together with with CVD lab or – OH – yeah well I mean it’s possible it wasn’t built for multiple conversions in that kind of way so it would have to be something that you hacked onto it for sure okay yeah Stuart you wanted to confirm its Mixpanel that’s m IX PA any L that’s one if you want to check that out Ben are you done with your questions I can mute you out yeah yeah great thanks a lot man just want to confirm with next person Ellie do you want to ask ah an audio or do you just want me to read your question now all right so Ellie wants to know um is there a way to harness traction so it does not get out of control for the worse and I guess you want to know if they’re tools up there that would help you do that can you kind of clarify what you mean by not getting out of control for the worse as well please unless you understand that Justin now clarification we grade okay let’s Ellie’s come back with more C’s oh he wants to know is something like too much traction during the growth phase that’s negative ah I’ve never seen it honestly like I don’t think anyone’s ever like I’ve too much customer like you know or to bit too much money coming in I think the only case in which that’s negative is where you’re acquiring too many of the wrong customers and they might be like diluting the quality of your sales calls or support emails or whatever and just creating a lot of overhead that’s the only time I’ve ever seen a negative and in that case I think you can do things like charge people you know you have to be a paying customer in order to email support or just do better lead scoring or qualification or whatever but I’ve never seen an issue with people who get too much traction for self-serve products mm-hmm all right great thanks um we have we have a question on clarification that’s keen that’s ke n io yep they’ve got a very interesting product as well that I’ve been checking out lately um Raj you’ve got a question was wander if you want to ask that or should I read that out for you and while we’re waiting for that I was wondering if you had heard of a startup called Oscar say in yeah yeah the health insurance company yeah I had just heard about them earlier this year and how they had really done well with just growing in the New York area and I was wondering if you’ve got any insights on some of the stuff that they’ve been doing yeah so they’re in an interesting situation they’re a health insurer that has gotten tons of press because they raised like 50 million dollars right off the bat from some very influential startup investors and you know and so they’ve they parlayed that into PR and really owned the kind of like tech startup niche you know so I don’t think they have a ton of traction yet but I think they’re doing a really good job of playing the PR game at least early on right

yeah that’s something that I mean I think as it relates that’s one channel that affiliates don’t always look at is a PR angle mainly because they don’t own the product and one thing that I like to recommend to people is to try and create a brand out of what you’re working on even if you don’t own that product to create an asset out of that marketing that you’re doing because that’s where the real value is created instead of building someone else’s value and yet and there been a few affiliates I’ve been able to do that and we’ve been able to exit with affiliate campaigns that are actually brands that that provided more value than just linking out to some other website right right mm-hmm I mean there are ways to do that but any PR essentially helps with not only with getting in front of a new audience but also helps with conversion you know right people see something on Washington Post and then get an email or see a Facebook ad about it they’re more likely to convert on that and they were if that ad or you know was the first time they’ve ever seen something yeah yeah for sure I think that’s something that you should spend the time to do for real instead of just putting logos on your landing page that not really authentic um rod has a question it’s easy do you have a step by step procedure for testing markets and where to find customers we do yes so we go more into depth in that in the book if you want you get the first three chapters for free go to traction book comm and if you’ll see on our website you just enter your email and we’ll mail you out those first few chapters yeah so we definitely go into that of the book it’s a big question though so uh you know happy to follow up biting the off you like read the first couple chapters or whatever yeah um talking about the book make sure you guys hang out till the end we have five copies is that correct Justin or yeah we got five copies of the book to give out to whoever is on this webinar and so if you’re not on account you can’t win any more questions we’ve got about maybe 15 minutes before we’re done right while we wait I’ve got a few more questions on my end so you talked about moving doing tasks that move the needle or don’t move the needle is there an easy way to actually determine that I know that for certain channels it’s pretty easy so for example if you’re trying to do AdWords that you could plug in your keyword list and get a a an estimate of the monthly volume but some of these other channels have you heard of good recommendations for how to figure out whether a particular action or campaign within that channel will be big enough to get that you know move in a substantial kind of way yeah so you know you can essentially look at the these different channels and see like okay if we were to use this channel you know how much thrashing we’d expect to get for that so if you want to do like an offline event or something you know you could look and say what is the most popular meetup group on Yelp or sorry Daniel what is the most popular meetup group that exists for this subject and if we got that big would that move the needle for our business right no like you can use these different things as kind of proxy to see in a best-case scenario is this something that would be meaningful to us mm-hm does that make sense yeah for sure and I mean that would involve even even if you got that big you still have to convert that audience so you have to look at how all your coaching overall as well right yeah exactly all right cool looks like we’re not getting any more questions coming in I’ll wait maybe an extra minute or two to see if there any more questions then if not we’ll move on to the next portion where we pick the winners of the book and and Iraq sounds awesome all right I just wait a little bit and

thanks a lot Stuart we’re getting some feedback see good stuff I really enjoyed the first portion with a presentation just to see and hear your thoughts and everything just for a personal point of view I like to be the whole bullseye framework it’s something that I think some of the better affiliates do but it’s not something that has been actually presented in a framework format and and kind of broken down step by step and if you’re a new fully getting started I’d really recommend just following this framework and the information is being shared you can get a lot just for the first three chapters but you should buy the book as well and read more about what some of the other founders and I’ve done with the other traction channels mm-hmm I’m for that no problem so a band wants to know what are some ways to explore new acquisition channels yeah so pay close attention to where you’re at like new channels and new ways new uh new sites that your audience is spending their time on and then run tests on those channels so like a good one now if you would be to be audience I think is medium and Linkedin publishing pretty new channels not super crowded you know built-in like audience to who want to engage with your content and I think that those sorts of new your channels are well worth testing if your audience spends any sort of time or even shows any sign of spending time on any of these new platforms yeah I think that’s a great idea one thing that you talked about earlier was the whole Bob trying to stay out of competitive channels and I’m sure a lot of you have notice that there are certain channels that just stopped working as well because everyone’s on there and the ability to get any traction or even profitably advertise on there starts to drop us that competition Rises and and so being first to figure out a new traction channel and really scale it up before anyone notices can be a huge competitive advantage to you um yeah exactly here’s another question from rod it saves them how many users that’s one need to get VC’s attention and does it matter if they’re paid on that can you say that one more time you wanted to know how many users does do you need to have to get attention from a VC and does it matter if those users are paid users or not yeah so often it doesn’t matter if you if they’re paid or not but what does matter is like you need to figure out where and using angellist is amazing for this but you can look at at what stages and how much traction similar companies got when you know before or around the time that they raised money from investors the guy highly recommend looking an angel is looking at TechCrunch funding announcements and just seeing like okay this company is a similar vertical or similar industry how many users how much revenue roughly did they have when they raised and then just aim for something around that target mm-hmm and and I guess that really depends on the stage that you’re in this wall or in social stages you may not need to have any users it could be just an idea like if your maybe trying to get into YC or something like that right yeah yeah exactly cool I guess we should start wrapping up I’ve got a list of everyone on here on random not org let me just make sure that I’ve got everyone listed here and then I’ll shuffle the list and pick the top five people on here do you have any shipping restrictions just in like whether you would be able to ship international in there yes we can’t do international what we could do is we could get you we could give you a digital like a gift certificate for a digital copy okay great cool all right so I am going to get this randomize and

first winner is Jack Jack Jack – also your last name Jack Fitzgerald email me Nana na na at TRACON – or – with your information and or you could put it into the chat your congratulations jack our next winner is Alfred Leon congratulations Alfred next winner is Ellie congratulations Ellie our next winner mr. Ellie is rod backward Beckwith congratulations rod and then final winner is Mike Mike I’m not to see you lastly pre-mba ers in may or may I hope I’m not messing up your last name but congratulations please everyone email me your information I’ve got your info Jack I’ll contact you to get your mailing address and then we’ll get those books up to you looks like you may be out in Australia jack so we’ll get a PDF done all right thanks everyone and then did you want to give the URL for the traction book and also the bonus website yeah so do you want to just mail this out but it’s traction book calm okay then we can mail out the bonuses all right well mail out the bonuses traction book calm everyone definitely highly recommend purchasing the book if you didn’t win there’s a lot of really interesting and informative interviews from some of the leading founders and well and this is me you’ll learn something for sure and then the other thing is that if if you purchase a copy of the traction book send me a receipt of your order I have a little bonus that I’ve put together for free use of by track until 2 for 3 months which is a minimum almost a $300 value if you if you are are on the minimum plan so just to support Justin and Gabriel and now on this book I wanted to offer this I know a lot of you have used it to get traction with your affiliate campaigns and so I’d like to be able to help you grow faster a few questions my email is Nana that’s na na at track tracking 202 calm at na nai tracking 202 calm thanks a lot for your time on here everyone and really want to thank Justin for taking time out of his day to present this information for us do you have anything to wrap up before we’re done Justin I know I mean you know I hope this is valuable people happy to do it you’re stopping by if you want to check out the first three chapters for free traction book comm just enter an email and we’ll send them your way and thanks for spending time alright thanks love Justin it was good having you on today and thank you everyone once again