Recovery Drinks, Overtraining, Beginner Racing and More – Ask a Cycling Coach 288

Welcome to the podcast The only podcast is dedicated to making you a faster cyclist The sk a cycling coach podcast, presented by trainer road I almost entered on the other podcast we do, the successful off the athletes podcast Forgive me Uh, this one is presented by trainer road, like all of them, and we are joined by an awesome crew We have our, uh, we have a trainer road and Cannondale’s Amber Pierce Good morning We have a Cliffbar racing’s and also trainerroad’s Pete Morris How’s it going guys? And our CEO, Nate Pearson Hello, we have breaking news, John breaking news, and I wish Chad was here But, uh, straight out of Cape town, South Africa, they have pushed Cape Epic to October And, uh, what happened is they listened to our podcast and heard about Chad’s ankle said Donnie and Hunter needs a lot more time to train So they push it out to October Um, that’s actually really good though, because obviously it’s COVID related, but Sophia Inside baseball behind the scenes stuff here Sophia had a pan AM’s game conflict, and she was using that to qualify for the Olympics So there was a very strong chance that I was, I didn’t have a teammate and I was going to find one So I had some good ones in mind, but now I think it should be great Cause it’ll will be posted the Olympics for Sophia And, uh, this is like a more fun event She doesn’t have to be super duper fit for it And I’ll have a super screaming fast teammate cause she just will Hopefully, if she qualifies I’ve been at the Olympics and then Amber, that gives us too much better time to like, get better skills, right? Oh yeah Yeah Can make really good use of that extra time Pete? Are you ready? Fitness-wise for March, uh, March eight day 12 hours a day Race I was, I was trying really hard It was definitely my event for the year So I was trying to put in the right amount of work to get us there And then Chad’s ankle was not putting in the same amount of work that I was, I don’t think Do you really need to put in that much work though? If your Chad’s partner you guys talk? Uh, that’d be so we do This is just facts though, right? It’s not, it’s not talking to people Uh, we’ll see I, I think Chad’s, Chad’s, uh, Chad’s mountain bike skills are way better than I think everybody realizes Um, and his fitness is About the same as it usually is So hopefully we can get his fitness, uh, up and I, I’m not worried about the technical stuff I think he’s going to have fun and we seem to still like each other at the end of our multiple hour mountain bike rides So that’s something Yeah That’s you guys have been doing like long rides together, which is kind of cool Uh, and he’s been not cramping another, so a couple of key things to think about too, because it’s an October and South, uh, South Africa is in the summit Summertime that Southern hemisphere, this will be their spring So for those who don’t mountain bike in places where it’s a dry summer, like Reno, like Cape town, uh, springtime The dirt is way better and totally different than the fall The amount of technicality that loose over hard John tell, describe to people What, what is that? Yeah, like if you had like a snicker doodle cookie and you left it out for a week and then you put it on the table, and then you tried to ride your bike on like a whole table of snickerdoodle cookies That’s what it’s like riding in the fall So it’s like Velcro, right? Kind of like the road, if it’s hard packed It’s like fresh oatmeal cookies It’s different So to stick with the cookie side of things Yeah, yeah, yeah Great traction I’ve never written on an oatmeal cookie, but I assume it’d have great traction So, and the high temp, is only gonna, so anyways for us that have worst technical skill, that’s going to be good for us, but each team has someone who’s not the best technically And then, uh, the heat, the average high, the average range in October is 58 to 74 degrees I don’t know what that is in Celsius, but it’s, that’s a cool day where you can start off Maybe you have a vest when you line up and then you take it off, but you can mountain biking You can totally do the whole ride without anything Cool But you’re, it’s also going to be a hundred degrees Like it could be in March Um, that’s advantage ups, like, cause Chad’s always done pretty poorly in super hot conditions This, these will be mild Yeah And that’s, that’s something that you actually enjoy writing in all day, right? Like you don’t overheat and hang out for two hours and a hundred degrees and barely pull yourself back together and then lay on the couch when you get done with the ride for three hours Hopefully it, Chad will Oh, go ahead Go ahead I was going to say that’s about 16, 17 degrees C for, for, for folks listening over the points I would say that range for mountain biking is like ideal Because mountain biking, you always, uh, you can go a little bit colder, cause you’re not going as fast Uh, we’re road riding in like the fifties, you start to like want to vest, but when you’re going like 12 miles per hour, it can feel really

good at, in the high fifties anyways Uh, so that’s the, that’s the update more drama for longer Um, and hopefully it will happen with vaccines and all that kind of stuff Sure We stretch this out Yeah, everybody was just really happy listening to this because we get more Cape Epic hype so much SMACtalk is we’ve got a sign up for the 2021 rematch because everyone’s going to want to try to beat Sophia And I After we waited in October, look at this already Oh man Another very cool initial update that we have to share this one’s perhaps not so crucial, but, uh, we now have learned it’s funny because I’ve seen the headlines where they say like Mount Everest, uh, changed its elevation, which, I mean, technically it’s always changing its elevation, but anyways, it’s now Officially three feet higher So all these people playing in these Everest attempts, if you like to the money, that’s very sad because you have to restart I have had many concerned podcasts, listeners reaching out to me, telling me I have to do it again Uh, podcast listeners Don’t worry about it I made so many mistakes Nate here, you gotta, you gotta face going on You Everested? I know Believe it or not I did you did not say that, but yeah Yeah, we should cover it sometime Yeah I never, I never knew Did you, is it like the classic style Everest? You know, we have like 10 questions to cover today, but let’s just talk about this instead of this to be better Um, so I say it’s ever seen based on the The height of Everest on that date, because a thousand years from now it’s going to be even higher and we’re not going to go back and clear the records Exactly John, you have this for eternity Oh yeah Well, we have it anyway, because we made very, uh, you know, we got into that weird You don’t make a lot of sense on the bike after like three hours of riding hard, but then when you do like 26 hours, nothing makes sense And we trusted our garments in the midst of the storm and they were telling us that we were at like, 20,000 feet instead of we’re actually at 29,000 feet Sweet blend, a lot of extra we’re good And like 2000 years when Everest is like super high, we’re still good I think so It’s like, if you were to like cross the ocean or swim across Lake Tahoe, but then next year Lake Tahoe’s water level is higher Therefore the distance is longer We don’t, or like you never did it Yeah, exactly You did it Exactly So thank you very much concerned podcast listeners, but we’re I’m okay And even if it did invalidate my result I’m okay Cause we never even had a result So, um, okay And with this as well, something that you should absolutely listen to If you’re listening to this podcast is the successful athletes podcast There’s a link down below subscribe to it Last week, he talked to Jamie Barry He was an athlete who is struggling with reds Um, so, uh, basically an energy deficiency syndrome where he got to the point where he was very worn down And this is like, We’re talking severe, we’re talking blood tests that show that his testosterone markers were so, so low that they were, I mean, listen to it It’s crazy Uh, he used trainer road to come back and now he’s hitting PRS faster than he has weighs more than he did before Eats way more carbs than he did feels better on the bike Feels better in life We’re going to talk about carbs more in this episode likely Yep Um, and then next week’s episode is going to be with Laura Alanga out of Chicago She is trained to road to cat up from cat four, all the way to cat two and cyclocross And we talk all about the process that she did being an adult onset cyclist, and just going in the last really it’s like five or six years of her going from, Oh, I guess I did ride a bike when I was a kid I can do this again to being now a cat two, which is really cool and like a good strong racer So, and that’s probably one of the more like takeaway rich episodes We’ve done Where she likes shares This is what I did to be really good at this, this and this And this is what I did That was really functional and cat three, but now in cat two, it’s different and this is what I’m doing It’s really cool So it’s a great episode and everybody should check it out Um, And then, uh, we also should mention the fact that Nate, uh, you have a business podcast of sorts that, that you’ve been testing out well, Fo sorts? I have the best business podcast in the world And also, I, I struggled to call it a podcast cause it is in some respects but it’s video I call it a business show at the moment, uh, interview business leaders, and we ask questions about, but other people have about work kind of same thing as this, except The, uh, the co-hosts are rotating through because I think we can learn from all these people There’s no Like a pattern or no, there’s no book that describes how to do this And we’ve done two episodes there on my Instagram, TR dot Nate . I’m going to do one more episode and then we’re going to launch it as a podcast and I’ll put it on YouTube and stuff too, to make it easier to listen to I understand IGTV is not the easiest way to listen to it Uh, but if you get like you shoot up the shark charts more, if you have some episodes first, so people can download multiple So when you do subscribe, please download them all And maybe that can get the reach little bit farther

So I’ll decide on the name and I’m pretty sure, but I don’t know I gotta think about it more Along those lines, too If you’re listening to this podcast, you can subscribe and you can auto download the episodes So then you don’t miss them Um, and then when you do that sort of a thing that also helps because then iTunes says, Ooh, more people subscribing I’m going to give this to more people when they’re searching for cycling content So, uh, that helps us a ton because then more people hear this more people get faster It’s all good Do we want to cover 0.4 in our doc or do we want to move on to 0.6? Okay, go ahead before Okay So, uh, I said something last week and in the forum, people were like, blah, blah, blah Nate is wrong about this once again And I think what it is is I did not do a very good job of explaining it Okay So what I talked about is the relationship of workouts in a finite period And how the likelihood that it changes to be able to do another workout And let me, I’ll just, I’ll explain it better this time So in, and this is I’ll, this needs to be a long explanation Okay So what we did is we look at different difficulties of workouts in different energy systems And so if you do one workout in one energy system within the next two weeks, how likely is it that you can do harder workouts in other energy systems in there And I’m not talking about long-term months of Z2 that then, um, establishes like increases your FTP When I’m talking about is what we see is if you do a hard FTP workout, you are a threshold workout You are more likely To be able to accomplish a, uh, hard VO, two max anaerobic sweet spot all the way down to endurance But if you do a hard endurance workout, you are more likely to do a harder temple workout, but not a harder threshold or VO two max And if you think about this in the near term, this isn’t a two week period Remember, uh, that if you do a bunch of zone two, are you really going to change your power VO two max inside of that? That period But if you can get two week period that two week period, it takes a long time to get aerobic adaptations through Z two And we know this, and I’m not this, this what I’m saying does not conflict with that One bit These are two different things Um, There is what I’m talking about has I think a lot of use, we also have a, um, I was just siting way too much, but an ML project too, that shows that when you do more volume, more Z2 increases your FTP, like th that’s that this is over long terms, bigger chunks of time So nothing that I said there means that That is not still true This is just in a finite time period, which I think is one of the most interesting things, because we can actually measure what the, how much better you can do in each one And I, I mean, someone on the forum, I love it that constructive on the forum, but somebody said that’s useless information And I was like, This is like, I think it’s the coolest information I’ve ever seen in our data set So there’s definitely a disconnect between our opinions, but hopefully I can prove, or we can prove gang one thing, Nate, that I want to say product managers here Yeah You just said the word opinion and I just want to make sure something is understood These are not your opinions that you’re talking about, but these are observations from the dataset and that that’s an important thing to make It’s not that, um, It’s not that Nate has an opinion and he’s seeking to validate that with the dataset It’s just, these are the observations that we’ve seen with the dataset and we’re just sharing those observations So that’s an important thing to keep in mind Someone had a hypothesis and they went through Are there any other thoughts? I just want to see if there was one And then they showed this and I was like, Whoa, that’s cool Uh, and the opinion part was just how useful you think it is The other thing I want to say is whenever you look at datasets like this, which you can get are like, uh, I forget the correct word, but basically the dataset is biased So let’s say we never had someone one who would do a hard endurance ride and then try to do a hard threshold to VO two max And what people, um, I’ve seen people say this too is like, Hey, you’re because you guys have plans, your dataset will match your plans very closely But we honestly, we have tens of millions of rides that are not in plans Like we’ll look at those separately and stuff too These are self-selected Um, and then you can look at too, is if somebody, uh, does not pass a workout, Like they struggle with it versus they do So if you can find people that have attempted the hard workout, they do this, the hard G2 and the attempt to hard VO, two max or threshold, and then they can’t do it That makes you more confident that, that a relationship, or there’s not a strong relationship there We’re on the other side of, for VO2 max and threshold If they try it and they pass it That’s that’s how you can get more confident in that data set, but we are totally aware that, uh, you don’t want, you don’t want to just prove what you’ve prescribed to people Right Cause that is, that could totally happen Uh, anyways, that’s a long explanation and, uh, I think this is like, My favorite part of work right now is this sort of stuff

Um, yeah And there is there’s, there’s, there’s something interesting to share with this too Uh, if in fact, Amber and I were just talking about this before the podcast started, but, uh, we’re adhered to science-based principle leading the way and taking a principled approach to it and having science lead the way So like, if we Saw with data that, that things were better in a, in a totally different direction Let’s say that we all found out that writing it 250% FTP and doing that for, you know, as much time as he could broken up into short shorts That’s how you get faster If there was enough data to prove that, then we would want to start testing that And then we would want to Then see where that goes So like, we, we just are adhered to the whole concept of science leading the way in helping get people faster That’s it? This, this is not instead of just like pushing our wares, which is a, it’s a fun thing to do because then that way we get to sit back and then we get to like really find the best way, rather than adhering ourselves to a specific methodology or dogma that exists So This is, this is one of the other things that grinds my gears, if you want to poke me on the internet, there’s a few things, and this is one of them is you say that like, for some reason, I’m in love with sweet spot periodization or something like that, you know, how much more money we could make If we could prove that there is a better training system and everyone goes to it I don’t think everyone’s going to be like, Oh, like, they’re not going to be upset with us They’re going to be so happy, right That we do Right And if we, uh, if we, and it’s not just in a six week thing, we’re looking at many, many months, right? Like how to make someone better over a season in years, not in a six week timeframe Cause those are two different things If we just, if everyone just want to be fit for SU to six weeks, we would throw so much VO two max at you It would be insane But the, but just in general, like our, our interests are aligned If we make you faster We grow is more as a company, we accomplish our mission The whole world gets faster, which has all of these implications And I don’t think we look poorly at all by changing and updating our stuff Uh, so just that’s I don’t, I don’t personally care like any about any of that Yeah It’s constant word here to constant improvement and science So that, that sort of Growth mindset folks Yeah That’s it W we think the same as you, we want to get faster too So, um, Nate, we need to cover something Speaking of getting faster and for, in my case, not getting faster, your case, yes getting faster I recently took a Ramp test and I wanted to share the results of this because I think that A lot of the time when we look at other people training, we just assume that everybody else has an ideal training experience, but then we don’t And we’re the only ones it’s easy to feel that way And I know that sounds ridiculous right now, if you’re hearing that from an externalized perspective, but if you internalize for a bit or that for a bit, you probably have this perspective going on quite often, that’s normal for us Um, So I was, uh, so I, I finished off my year and I was at three 15 and my workouts were feeling pretty easy at 315 for my FTP And then, uh, I took an intentional two weeks off that stretched to another week because of landscaping projects And then I had three weeks where I was sick Thank goodness It was not COVID Um, but I was still very sick And so that ended up, if you look at that, then Two weeks then stretched to a huge time period And I was like, eh, maybe I can just come back in at 350, you know, like I dropped it down and did the same thing to every one of us cyclists has thought like, I can just manually drop it down and I’ll see where I go And I thought about that and I was like, this is the wrong approach Like The whole point of the ramp test is to get accurate training It isn’t to pad my ego It isn’t to try to shortcut my way to anything that’s it doesn’t work like that It’s not designed to work like that Instead it’s designed to give you accurate training and accurate training is the best way to get faster because it’s adjusted for you So in my case, I took the ramp test and I went from the 315 Heights all the way down to 286 And which is a big drop for me relative to, to you I’m sure anybody can figure out that sort of math So I dropped down to that Was it frustrating? A hundred percent Was I disappointed a hundred percent Did I like start to curse the fact that I had, uh, that my child always gets me sick Of course I did like all of these things, but at this time, same time I had to step back and look at it And once again, remind myself, well, this is just the best way to get accurate training And as a result since then, my work has been fantastic They’ve been all within the bandwidth of, of, I guess, complete ability if you’ll pardon that word there, but what I’m getting at is the, I wasn’t dreading my workouts I didn’t feel like my workouts were bringing me down to zero every night So then I was just fearing the next workout I don’t feel that right now And I’m getting faster I can already tell in the short space of two weeks So I just wanted to share that Don’t be afraid of the ramp test Just take the ramp test and remember, it’s not approving of your speed It’s not approving of your worth as an individual or an athlete, even though we way too often assimilate those really what it comes down to is just a good benchmark, a snapshot of your fitness at that time

But above all, it’s a benchmark to anchor your training So now Nate, you had the opposite experience recently Mine went up So therefore my worth has increased as a human being when it’s a bad result, nothing to do with it when it’s a good result, everything to do with it, right Because of the hard work I put in the results, consistency and hard work, uh, that there’s not too much to say, but I think if you remember, I had a really good ramp test of 372 I kind of had a I over-trained and then I tapered and then I had that, but then I had to like sickness and time off And I went down to like three 30, three 40 Now I’m back at three 54 everyone who messaged me on Instagram, who said, Oh, it will come back And just a couple more It does not like, I think it’s because it was a peak fitness for me with a taper Um, if it were a, if it was some, if it was an FTP, I’d been on a lot I think it would’ve came back quickly Like if I stopped training, I could get back to three 30 pretty quickly, I think, because I’ve been there for a long time or above there, but that brings me to a 4.06 in J D John you’re down to 4.2 Watts per kilo I’m 192 pounds So 87 kilograms at the moment on Creotine Cause uh, I heard that it might help with concussion and It’s just a, why not get strong when we’re not going up any Hills right now? And the last thing to think about though, is what would we be at sea level John? Because I’m not like that in, I didn’t type that in And this is true Here we go 400 Watts club on Instagram Thank you for making that wonderful illustration that has Nate talking about all these things You got to check it out So uh, based on science Our FTPs at sealevel are about 5% higher And, uh, that makes, puts me at three 72 at about 4.28 Watts per kilos And that puts me somewhere right around 300 down at sea level right now So, um, Amber, yeah, just on this topic, I was chatting on Instagram with a TR athlete about exactly this drop in FTP, and I think a really cool way of thinking about the ramp test is it tells you what your body needs right now So, if you haven’t been able to train or you’ve been under a lot of stress, or in the case of this athlete, we had a recent crash Your body needs to dial it back And the ramp test will tell you that And in Nate’s case, he’s been training and making gains And so in order to keep making those gains, his body is going to need more training stress, and therefore a higher intensity in his upcoming workouts And the FTP test is going to tell you that So Think of it less in terms of a test and more in terms of a conversation with your body to check in and figure out what your body’s going to need for your upcoming block Yeah Whenever you say that great way to wrap that up Gatorade Good reference Yeah We’re having some internet issues between all of us somehow So if there’s a lot of delay, uh, I’m sure that the internet will get it worked out somewhere It’s a series of tubes It’ll be fine Um, so, uh, the one thing that I think we do need to mention though, is somebody actually asked in the forum, Nate will this new information changes the way you train and it’s, and that’s exactly the point Uh, we tried to apply that into our product all the time to change the way we train So all of the stuff that we learned, we let that funnel into, uh, changes So, um, but we can’t say anything else So, uh, Nate already, I almost yanked Nate’s cord out digitally, like 10 times when he was talking before there So, yeah, sorry 400 Watts club talked about beers with chad again, and it did a great animation of us I feel like beer is a chad is like Russian roulette for the company We’ve dodged like so many times, not that that’s like us don’t ever play that game, but, um, I don’t know, I, it stresses me out just thinking about it I did it once and I was like, that’s enough for the rest of my life Cause I, when I drink, especially those who’ve met me in public I like to talk about three years of training road plans to people I’ve just met, which is, which is not very good Nate went zero to 100 real quick with beers, with beers of Chad So, um, but there is a possibility that it may come back in the near future We’ll see, so stay tuned to our Instagram Follow us at trainer road Follow all of us on there too Pete at alsoforgotten Amber, Amber Malika, Nate tr.nate, myself, leeJonathan_ Okay Bobby’s question TR.Nate, forgive me Okay Bobby says, while I have been cycling for awhile now, after discovering all the wonderful content and products you folks created earlier this year I’ve been inspired to start racing This is a natural occurrence, uh, Bobby way to go That’s the point he says, obviously COVID-19 has disrupted racing in a massive way Delaying if not outright forcing events to cancel and up where I live in Washington state Currently the only road specific races that have an actually scheduled start date in 2021 Though, who knows if that will stay put or not? Our 20 are multi-day stage races

So typically four races over a three-day span and include one or two road races and a Merck style, time trial, and a crit This is a really common amateur format here in the United States Uh, but I assume that other people listening to this may have different formats We’re going to talk about stage races in general, not specific to this format He says as a complete bike racing newbie with no real experience And he says with racing strategy beyond watching a bunch of your race analysis videos, Which, by the way, if you’ve watched that and truly internalize that information, you’re already steps ahead of people So there’s just so much information that you can get from those watching, cycling too Yes Another great one If you partner those two, you’re going to you’re it’s like a, it’s like a master’s program You’re like an MBA program for cycling So, um, he says, uh, and he says, so I’m going to reread that section as a complete bike racing newbie with no real experience with racing strategy, other than watching your videos riding in large packs and so on Is it a bad idea to use a bigger event like this, a stage race as my debut to the racing world? Or should I wait for some smaller events to more gradually introduced myself to racing? I’m confident that my fitness will be in a great place for whatever event I end up targeting thanks to trainrroad, but I’m concerned about, I would be biting off way more than I can chew for my experience level by jumping right into a multi-day event So do you have any advice on this? And he finishes off with saying, thanks so much in two thumbs way, way up for all the, for all that you folks do The podcast, videos and products have been such a huge help for me And I’m sure many, many others, uh, in surviving 2020, if I could add to that, to the blog, a fantastic articles constantly coming out there and then our forum as well, so great community there Okay So I’m going to pitch this one to Pete first Uh, so Pete, the core question, our stage race is a bad idea for a beginner racer for their day I don’t think there’s any bad debut race I mean, there’s probably some, but Really the idea is you want to get your feet wet as soon as you possibly can and learn as much as you can in a short period of time Like that’s what we all want out of bike racing And the stage race means you get to dip your toes in a bunch of different pools with a bunch of other people who are dipping their toes in the same pools And, uh, you just, um, that curve, that learning curve is so fast when you’re racing day after day after day So I think to me, this is ideal If I could choose to start all my seasons with stage races or Sprinkle in more stages over the course of the season, I would always do it It’s right Oh yeah Yeah, absolutely I it’s It’s almost like, um, when you go to any sort of like accelerated learning program or like, if it’s like an offsite thing that you’re doing where it’s just like super focused for a short period of time, but what that allows you to do is kind of like learn, iterate, learn it, or, you know, just constantly go through that process And yeah, it’s a, honestly like your first bike race It’s not about how you finish So I kind of, I see what you mean Pete, about saying like there’s not a bad first race in that regard because it’s like, your result doesn’t really matter Instead, what it’s about is what you learn along the way Right? Um, Nate, what are your thoughts on this one? Um, Ram is a bad first race, but other than that, this is the best way Like if you can put them together, if you can do lots of crits on the same day, because A lot of, especially in lower categories, if you’re a masters racer or they have overlapping categories, you can do multiple races at the same day That is the best way I feel like you can No, I miss this move or I did this wrong, or you just get more comfortable, which is huge for new racers, three, you’ll be comfortable in the pack And then on the second and third race, it feels so much better So a little, a little stage races like, well, this is a pretty good, awesome stage race, actually four days or four races A hundred percent do it, do it, do it, do it, uh, try different things like which has talked to us a lot You don’t have to win You could learn different ways that you can ride the race What does it feel like to be in a breakaway? How’s that? Was it feel like to be in the sprint? What does it feel like to tail gun or does it feel like to try to stay at the front? There’s a, what’s it feel like to sag, climb all these skills that you’ve learned in the videos You’re going to say, Hey, I’m going to try to apply it here and see how it works Unless you’re, hopefully you have good fitness There is, I’ve been in the races where You’re just, I just want to survive and not get dropped and you can do some of those skills and stuff, but if you sat Claymont wrong, there’s no room for error and you were gone and then you ride by yourself for like 40 miles, which yeah Well, uh, one of our, uh, great copywriters, Jesse, he mentioned, so he used to be a teacher and he mentioned something and it was a very applicable quote He says, no matter how good this is, Student is before vacation, their worst after vacation And usually what, what he’s getting at there is the fact that when you have time away from something you’re not as good as you were when you were stuck into that steady rhythm And this is an opportunity for you to really lock into a steady rhythm and to race a bunch and to figure things out and to iterate in between races and do all that stuff Because in the end, like you don’t have to care about the GC results at all, uh, at this point, right? Like Instead focus on like the smaller wins That’s probably a good point to hand off to you, Amber, on this, more like the actual processes or things you can do amidst the stage race to make sure

that you’re getting the most out of it, because it could just be, if you aren’t taking like a growth mindset and looking for opportunities to improve and measure and that sort of stuff, it could be really overwhelming But if instead, you know exactly what you should be looking for, you could make it successful Big time Yeah And apologies in advance There’s some noise going on at my house today You hear some background noise, we’re all in the same boat these days Um, I totally agree And I, I think it’s exactly what Pete and Nate and Jonathan you’ve said is I think stage races are actually just an awesome learning environment, especially as regards to process goals Um, There is a lot going on in stage races So probably the best thing to do is to pick one or two goals that you’re going to really focus on each day And as a new rider, probably one of the most important ones, the two most important ones I think you could focus on our positioning, learning how to feel comfortable in the group and learning how to move through the group Um, a good way to work on that is to shadow a trusted, more experienced athlete during the race And you can even talk to them, approach them and say, Hey, I’m new I’d really like to learn how to position better You know, like to kind of follow your wheel around for the day Honestly, most of the time nobody would mind Um, the other one is hydrating and fueling well So getting used to eating on the bike in the middle of a race, when there’s a lot going on, those are some really kind of basic skills that stage races are wonderful for trying cause The PR the positioning thing, you’re going to learn so much on the first day that you can then go and apply the second day, and then you’re going to learn so much in the second day that you can then go and apply immediately the day after that And it’s really cool Um, the other thing that’s neat about stage races is there’s so much going on and on one hand, this could be really overwhelming, but also you could think of it as just giving you this whole host of opportunities for learning So there’s the general classification, which is, you know, the, the overall winner for the whole stage race There’s also stage wins There’s also a points Jersey, probably a sprint Jersey So intermediate, intermediate points, sprints There’s probably a King or queen queen of the mountain Jersey there’s premiums Um, you know, you can aim for consistency You could look for, you could look to just see You know, like, can you actually, while you’re trying to work on your process goals, maybe read the race a little bit and figure out, you know, why is that person’s printing for points and which teams are going for GC and which teams seem to be going for stages And how are those different strategies that are going on around you effecting people’s decision-making in the race So there’s just, it’s, it’s such a rich learning environment where you can kind of pick and choose the things that you really, really want to work on and completely ignore the rest So if you feel that The position is coming pretty easily to you and you want to take on some more it’s there for the taking And if you feel like it’s too much, you can totally zero down and focus on one thing and not worry about the rest So I really, I don’t see any downside to this, honestly Uh, one, one thing that Amber said about, uh, asking someone, you know, I want to follow your wheel in the lower categories, the chance that you will find a Pete or an Amber is probably very low And a lot of people who think that they know what they’re doing They don’t always do it correctly And then also to Pete and Amber, how often do you get in the wrong spots sometimes Right And it’s hard to time the middle of the race to be like, Oh, I messed up like looking behind you Don’t don’t pay attention Right here That can be, uh, yeah I’m thinking of other things of very high level cyclists who I thought would, you know, it’s the last lap, let’s do it I’m going to put you in a position And we’re like 15 wheels back And I’m like, what, what are we doing here? This isn’t the right position And so I Just be aware of that, but if you can find a Pet e or Amberr who’s right Most of the time that’d be amazing It doesn’t have to be somebody, you know, who’s really good One of the things you can do is kind of watch the group on the first day and figure out like that person seems to always be where I want to be, or that person seems to always be there when the breakaway goes And then you can say, okay, maybe that’s the person I want to try to shadow tomorrow And yeah, I think I think that’s really one of the, one of the really nice things about stage races is it removes the variable of a bunch of different people showing up for a one day race where you have no idea who it is and what’s going to go on and how the race is going to be attacked If you’re with the same 40 or a hundred or whatever people every day for multiple days in a row, you’re going to be able to pick out who you should be around when they’re doing a good job And it also, you don’t have to worry about someone coming from out of town or whatever You’ve seen all these people racing in the same races that you’re you’ve been doing for multiple days You’re going to have a much better idea of what’s going to happen and what you don’t and what you do, and don’t have to worry about And so for people who get really anxious for racing, remind yourself that a stage race is actually less anxious because there’s less variables going on, which is for some people that’s very, very important Yeah, it seems counterintuitive That’s very true Sorry, go ahead, No, it’s just zoom, uh, I, I wish every race was a stage race that I did

It’s so much more efficient for time, especially for us because we have to drive It’s so much fun There’s more opportunities for points You learn faster what Pete said It’s like, it’s way more fun when you know everyone and then to Amber and Pete’s point too, right? Let’s say someone’s in the great position in the first day for the sprint Well, oftentimes those same people are in the great position for day two day, three day four Right? That’s the same kind of mix of five people and everyone else’s behind So in that case, when you’re gonna identify them, yeah Last three laps, get on their wheel and get in that right position If you want to be in that sort of situation, which can be a little scary for new racers, for sure Totally And I know science exists on this, but I don’t have it Uh, but so I don’t, I guess I don’t have any science to back this up, but when you do J had no strange, right When you do change The, uh, the circumstances of any sort of a situation It can have a profound effect on learning, like for children, for example, uh, uh, my son goes to a Montessori school and it’s, it’s super cute in their classroom Like everything is sized for a child Everything is like organized in a very consistent manner so that they know what to expect And we did the same thing at our house for him as well So we tried it He has tiny chairs, he has tiny everything, right? It’s all like, kind of like his size, but one of the things that they point to with that, and I’ve noticed this as well It doesn’t take much, but if you change your circumstances, a lot of the time you forget what you know, or at the very least it makes it a lot harder to observe the important details and filter signal and noise Um, because really that’s the best part of the stage race In my opinion is the fact that once again, since it’s the same competition, That allows you to pick up way more information because you waste so much, it’s not wasteful, but you spend so much energy, mental energy and focus and erase, trying to figure out who you’re racing against That’s like one of the biggest things that you need to do when you’re in a fresh race and you don’t know who they are You have to figure out who you’re up against, because that’s really the main thing It’s less about you racing the course more about you racing other people So when you’re in the stage race, it suddenly removes so many variables And just like any equation, if you remove a bunch of variables and you only have a couple to focus on, it’s a way easier equation to solve So it’s the, it’s the same thing If you can make anything more consistent Then you’re going to accelerate your learning or simplify your context to make it so that you can learn faster I missed stage races, just like talking about this I want to race so bad, especially stages Aren’t they? Yeah, Pete and I actually did a 10 mile TT, socially distanced, totally asynchronous TT Thanks Nate by how much set the scene here? So we, we, we laid out a 10 mile TTO, a lot of 10 mile TT courses Um, this one I think is our flattest one, but Pete and I had an idea of We’re just going to ride our local crit course also for 10 miles And so that’ll be really flat too, but, um, but flat course, and we did it at totally different times I saw Pete and kind of wave to him from across the road when I was, when he was leaving and I was, uh, coming up to it But, uh, 10 miles, Pete and I, and totally different spots with training and everything else I lost a Pete by five seconds, 25 minute time trial at a loss to him by five seconds Did you extra chain? No, I did not I didn’t either though So next time next weekend, I’m definitely waxing the chain for the 10 miles And I do think we’re going to try to do most, we’re going to try to continue to do these because I need something to look forward to, to be totally honest At the most basic level, I need something to be excited about in a short time duration away from now Um, Okay, cool Yeah We’ll talk about, you want to, you want to do them Nate? Saturday is my day off, but if we do a long gravel race or ride, I’d like to inside of that gravel ride, we should have a 10 mile TT Okay, that would be dope 10 mile tT You could also do You’re welcome to do, um, do it on Sunday too I mean, I know the weather might be different and that sort of a thing, but, um, it’s not like Pete and I have any sort of, it’s not like it’s an official thing We just planned out 10 miles in any time you can in the weekend go and do it So I like this thing called structured training and I follow a training plan and Sundays are pretty important rights for me Actually, I have, it that’d be the most important ride because I have Saturday off So I gotcha 10 miles Isn’t the same as a whole bunch of VO two max, I did my workout I did my, an outside workout and then I did the TT So there we go So you can still get it done That’s five seconds right there too, but I’m faster So hopefully, uh, that’s what I tell myself at least Okay John has a question about when to bump up training volume He says having been using low volume plan builder for nine months with great improvements from 164 to 242 FTB Holy cow, John Uh, he says I’m fully aware of gains become not as significant as you become more fit and that any gain is, is a success However, based on how my body feels over the past two months, as

well as comments Chad has made on previous podcasts, he has a question He says, my question is, do you tend to see a ceiling effect with low volume training eventually, meaning that eventually you bump up against the stops of what it can do for you, so to speak To fully take advantage of my possible potential Have I possibly come to a point where switching to mid volume would have a greater probability or success at getting me closer to my goal of 300 Watts, any advice or direction is greatly appreciated? I would not be anywhere near where I am today without using trainer road, you all are, are truly changing people’s lives for the better, in addition to making them faster And that’s pretty sweet If you ask me, I agree It’s pretty cool It says keep up the amazing work and no, you are greatly appreciated by many, uh, wish you all, nothing but the best cheers to your family from John That’s really cool Thanks John, for, for doing that Um, so I guess the, the question, yeah, the, the root here My question is, do you tend to see a ceiling effect with low volume eventually? Um, okay There’s two things on this one We talked about that ML project that has many more features and I have just talked about, but, um, in general there is a correlation Between more volume and a higher FTP The question is for you is more volume going to be higher FTP because for every single person in the world, there is a amount of volume where your FTP does not increase You become less consistent you’re sporadic, or you can overtrain and stuff goes down and bad things happen Right I think, uh, any, any of us ever had that happen to us? I think every one of us Right We’ve all done Um, so, uh, personally, I have tried to jump too high and it’s kind of kept me down a few times I would keep going on low volume until you have a sustained plateau, like two blocks where your FTP has an increased Now let’s try to add some volume, unless for some reason you were like, I am fresh every day after my hard workouts, I feel like I could do more workouts Um, I’m sleeping well Everything feels amazing Uh, I would, I would not Or you can also go a little bit in between You can add just one 60 minute easy ride and step up, say, Hey, for this block, I’m gonna add one Wednesday 60 minute Uh, I don’t call C minus three or something like that That’s not so bad Hard That’s some extra volume, some extra Z2, that could lead to higher, uh, gains in the future These big jumps are when I think we all really get in trouble And that’s where I’ve, I’ve gotten in trouble Pete, probably Amber too When you do those big jumps of volume all at once, um, for me, I find I’m, I think 500 TSS is better than me, better for me than high volume Because of what my lifestyle and stuff, I just can’t do more So, um, you can also try to look into better sleep nutrition, recovery to maximize the gains of that volume For those people that can’t do more than the low volume, I’m going to get enough sleep I’m going to have excellent nutrition And, uh, I’m going to do a recovery shake and get the other signaling, you know, after I, after I ride and all that sort of stuff Um, and that’s, that’s how I feel about that Don’t go to Wait till you wait till you plateau, I would say yes So a good sign that you’ve reached It is like a plateau You’re saying Nate, like if you’ve gotten to a point where you’ve been through 12 weeks of training and you’re just not seeing any improvements, that sort of a thing, and you’re just consistent and the, that you might be Yeah, two, four weeks Like if you’re the same, I would, uh, I would not one, sometimes stuff can happen with one and you get like a little bug and don’t even realize it But if you get two and you’re not going up, I would look at if sleep nutrition, recovery were good I would look at extra volume Yeah, Amber, sorry We, uh, we, we took you off, right? When you raised your hand, not at all Um, I just wanted to say that, you know, when you’re considering increasing volume, remember that when you increase volume, you also have to put additional effort into other things like fueling Making sure that you’re sleeping, making sure that you’re recovering So the effort, the difference of effort, isn’t just about the time that you’re going to put into that training, but it’s everything else that goes around that because with more training comes the need for more recovery and other kind of ancillary components of your training So just keep in mind that it’s not just going to be about like, Oh, I’ll just add on a 30 minutes here, but there’s a lot of effort that comes with that as well And you don’t want to forget about that either This is, I am going to flip it the other way to Amber, right? Like, not just, if you’re going to do more volume, you have to sleep more You have to eat better, but let’s look at the other aspects of life If you have a more demanding job, if you’re going through a more demanding situation in a high stress situation, for one reason or another, that also requires more sleep Like it’s almost like look at like the, the Because really when you’re getting faster, it’s not, when you’re, uh, you know, giving yourself those dose, dosing yourself with the work, it’s when you’re recovering from it That’s when your body adapts, that’s when your body gets faster So that poor part of time is like sacred Think of that in your life is like something you don’t want to transgress You don’t want to get rid of, but The stress that you put into life will take portions of that

And it’s finite So how much of the available recovery time that you have is going to be dedicated to training or other things? So they’re physically speaking Nate could probably take, uh, you know, right now 500 TSS, maybe more, but back when Nate was really just getting trainer road off the ground and nights, lunchtimes, everything else, doing all the work that he was doing, you couldn’t have tolerated 500 TSS Right? Nate, 200 was incredibly hard Right Yeah So it’s, it’s, it’s not just about like what you can physically tolerate and we’re really bad at boxing these and compartmentalizing them and treating them totally separately when they really do affect us Uh it’s it’s, it’s a huge, it’s an important thing to keep in mind I’m sure you noticed this too Pete, going from, uh, a more high demand job We’re here now with us here at trainer road Whereas before, when you were able to focus more time on training and racing, Yeah, you guys witnessed it firsthand where I just couldn’t train at the same capacity I was used to And I got a lot slower because work was difficult and energy and time No, I w I, right, it was, it was worth it I will, I will always take that trade, but, um, one of the things that started to help me along when I started doing low, lower volume is you have to focus on nailing your workouts If you’re not nailing your three Low volume workouts per week There’s no way you need more volume, right? Like let’s not, let’s not even bring that into the equation Let’s focus on nailing your three workouts And if you’re doing that consistently, and especially if you’ve been training for nine months, um, you’re still gonna see some growth and As long as you’re nailing your workouts, then that kind of opens the door to thinking about other things you could do, but if you’re not nailing your workouts, and I know a lot of people that still struggle with low volume workouts because of various, it has nothing to do with willpower and physical prowess It has to do with many other things in their life And so if you’re not nailing your workouts, that’s a great green light Or red light to not do more volume, or if you’re nailing your workouts, you’ve been nailing them for months and months Let’s let’s think about what we can do next And if you are nailing your workouts, I think a better way to step up volume rather than adding an extra day is to tack on 10 or 20 minutes to one of those three workouts at the end user extend workout function, raise it to like a Z two aerobic kind of level and just put a little bit extra because having that full day of recovery Is amazing And that little extra you’ll get, you know, in that week, you’ll add up three twenties is an hour, right? And you’re like, wow, I just got an extra hour I increased my volume by what almost 25% by just those three twenties and without having to, and it’s an easier way to know how many to like, Oh, I’m going to have a whole extra day working out I gotta change my schedule and all this sort of stuff And then if you find that you can’t nail your workouts, you just take those twenties off where you do some to tense Yep There’s a metaphor that I want to use for this too, for a point that was made earlier that I think that it’s important to explain this further, go into more depth it’s that if you’re doing low volume training, you can get more out of that training most likely than what you’re currently getting out of it now So Pete’s talking about nailing your workouts and I actually, I guess before I go into this point, Pete, what do you mean by that? By nailing your workouts? Do you mean just completing them or Can you go into more depth on that? Well, um, if you’re doing your workout as prescribed and you’re able to knock out interval after interval, you’re never struggling in recoveries You’re never pausing Like we know now about, uh, people kind of sneaking in pauses here and there Um, it’s it’s every single time you should be really, uh, you should feel like you were taxed and you completed something that was strenuous, but you’re still hungry for more In in, uh, not, I want to do another workout right now, but I can’t wait for the next workout That’s I think that’s the better way to phrase it Like you do your workout on Tuesday You can’t wait for Thursday to knock out the next workout And if you’re feeling that feeling, then I think that’s, um, that’s the underlying feeling you want when you’re able to actually possibly take more on Yeah, go on Sorry, go ahead, John Yeah, that’s making yourself forgive the metaphor here Once again, a sponge like, but the properly like saturated sponge, like in the sense that a lot of the time, if you’re just throwing all the work, the work is a constant flow of water, whatever it is, that’s what it is It’s this much TSS But if you’re not able to absorb that, Effectively then it’s, you’re, you’re uselessly throwing stress at yourself Cause it’s just not going to sit into that sponge It’s going to run off and the way that you make yourself a more receptive sponge in that regard is better sleep, better Nutrition It’s like doubling down I bet a lot of people could actually get faster Even if they’ve plateaued, like try sleeping more

Even if you don’t feel like you’re really like pushing up against the stops and super fatigued, try sleeping more And I bet you’ll get more out of that 300 TSS a week that you’re doing just from sleeping more or try eating higher quality, more whole foods, more things that are rich in different, uh, different sources, like eat different things, different colors, that sort of stuff I bet that you’ll get more out of your training It’s it’s, it’s cool Because a lot of the time we just break it down to being so simple as I need to train more and if I train more, I’ll get faster, but there are a lot of other levers you can move and it all revolves around making yourself better at recovering, instead of just better at training, there was this, uh, I think it was April fool’s joke or someone put on the internet that Instagram, uh, was coming out with a feature where you could see anyone who screenshotted your story in the last three years And millions of millennials screamed out and like, uh, because like they did not want people to know that, but you can track that inside of iOS Um, probably Android too I’m not sure, but what Pete is alluding to is we’ve been tracking your pausing data So all of you who have known two by 20, but that 20 minutes, you had five minute breaks in between Um, we that’s, that’s what we have in an internal data, because we need to be able to know Did you pause? Cause that changes the workout completely Um, and I know that’s not displayed to you at the moment, but we’d like to display that to you in the future because that’s important information, right? When you look back at your workout, you can’t always remember that you stopped in the middle of a Of your over unders and took a break and you pause the timer Um, but it’s very important to know about your progression of fitness, that data So we should, like, we want, I don’t refreshed them all with Strava Everyone’s like, Oh my gosh, forgive me, Amber, do you have anything else to add on this one before we move on to Andrew’s question? No, I think we really covered it all Cool Uh, let’s go to Andrews and we’re going to hit rapid fire Uh, Andrews is going to be more in depth He says, hello, trainer road coaches Thank you for all Thank you all for helping making in making me a better cyclist and for making a product and service that has such a positive impact on people He says, I always hear about the ideal recovery ratio of four units of carbs to one unit of protein This is what a lot of people talk about in a traditional recovery shake, right? Amber Um, and he says, uh, you usually take this shortly after workout Now Amber spoke recently and it has been covered many times about how to fuel workouts with carbs before and during I typically work out early and attempt to make up the, the calorie deficit that he has during, as opposed to before the workout And typically max out my consumption at about 90 grams of carbs per hour I understand that it may not be an actual max, but this is my max now So does it still make sense to maintain the carb protein ratio? I would have already lettered up with carbs So this question, Amber gets to like a big thing that we’ve talked about with this minimum effective dose with carbs And we are the, we as a people, I’m saying people in general, not us, we are champions of the opposite, but we, as a people are obsessed with finding the minimum effective dose of carbs Like Well, cause the assumption cars make you fat So what’s the absolute minimum amount that I can take in with still being able to get by And it’s a problem and it’s making you slower if you’re hearing this and you have that perspective So hopefully what we can cover with this one is the opposite of that And try to inform why you actually want to take on more carbohydrate at Nate Your notes are first on this one Do we want to go to that or, or do we want to just toss, to Amber? Uh, mine are real quick And then we can go into way deep with Amber in general What they’ve seen is it’s not about it’s like your daily carbon take Amber is going to talk about some of the benefits of the recovery shake too But what they’ve seen in general is If you’re doing more than 2 and a half hours of aerobic activity a day, your performance increases up to eight to 10 kilograms per sorry, grams per kilogram of body weight a day So these are like even, um, uh, like marathon runners, like Kenyans are running, doing 120 miles a week or something crazy like that They don’t increase the performance after 10 So it looks like there’s some upper limit of 10 grams per kilogram of body weight Of grams of carbs If you’re doing less, probably around six grams per kilogram of body weight is optimal, um, to increase performance that six grams per kilogram body weight is way more I bet you than you’re thinking And in my experience doing my own fitness pal stuff, is that the fat intake Is with, if you eat anything, that’s like, you didn’t make yourself Even if you make it yourself, that is so easy to get And then it messes It’s really hard to hit your caloric target with an hit that six grams So even six grams per kilogram body weight is probably more than most of you are doing, uh, for your regular, you know, 90 minutes a day, an hour, a day, stuff like

that Before we hand it over to Amber I want to, I don’t want to re uh, I want to emphasize one point that you said Nate, it wasn’t that eating eight to 10 grams of carbs per kilogram of body weight avoided bonking by a certain percentage It’s that eight to 10 grams of carbs per kilogram You see improvement as you eat more all the way up until that point improvement in performance So you actually are faster You’re stronger You’re outputting more work as a result of that, right? That’s a huge point is that people are like, since they they’ll say I don’t need it because I’m not bonking, therefore I should get whatever, uh, whatever the, the, the amount is that I’m just over that line is my target line Which, and that’s the thing, because I don’t want to get fat and what’s, I think what’s super interesting I don’t know if it says in the podcast before, but they’ve done studies where they put people in these metabolic changes, where they measure all the gas in and out They measure the stool, like everything that comes out from the toilet, they have researchers and they create very specific food to be able to understand how many calories you’re getting And they keep people in these chambers for a long time Like, I want to say 14 days or more, and it’s just bored in there so they can measure how much they’re actually moving And by measuring how much they’re breathing out, they can measure how many calories they’re burning and everything that’s coming out of the body They give people high carb diet, or high fat diet, right Cause they want to see cause people say, Hey, carbs make you fat And the study that I’m thinking of, uh, which I don’t have a link to it’s on the science Science about science podcasts We can find it later We’ll put it in After this episode in the forums, they’re going to make me look for it This is the same way Stronger podcasts are stronger by science podcasts That’s an excellent podcast for all this sort of stuff, but they, uh, um, I lost my train to stop, but concussion Oh yeah So afterwards, actually the group that had high carb lost a little more body fat in the group that was high fat for the same calories But it wasn’t enough to be statistically significant So basically for science fact, it was just calories in calories out They did not, their weight didn’t change and their body composition didn’t change between the two, uh, the two, uh, diets And now you would think that, Oh, that’s because it doesn’t make sense If you think that cars make you fat and it makes it so you cannot burn fat As soon as you’re eating carbs It just like blows your mind Um, there’s some researchers on that stronger by science that will do a much better job of explaining that than I will But if you know that that’s the outcome it’s so, uh, it might change, change the way you think about nutrition, especially inside of cycling that carbs actually don’t make you fat Yeah, Amber, maybe we want to start off with addressing the term topped off and I’m using quotes here If you’re listening on the podcast and then we can get into everything else here, because topped off is like a big assumption where it’s like, well, I just had a pancake, so I’m topped off Um, or like I took in 90 grams of carbs So I’m topped off what is topped off? Like maybe that’s probably a good point to address before we get into the specifics Yeah So there’s, there’s probably a couple of different ways of thinking about that, but primarily you’re thinking about, um, in terms of your training, your glycogen stores, that would be liver glycogen, but also muscle glycogen And then in terms of this particular question, taking in carbohydrate during your workout So staying ahead, quote unquote, on your energy meet needs, right? So are you taking in enough quote-unquote are you taking in enough? Uh, to, to keep up with the energy demands and what’s actually being burned So there’s the topped off in terms of glycogen storage And then also staying ahead on the energy demands of the actual workout that you’re doing And it’s, yeah, we’ll get into that a little bit, but that’s probably what, what this question is referring to Or if somebody was going to talk about being quote unquote topped off on carbs, those would be sort of the, the, the factors that we’re considering And it’s super tough to ever actually be topped off, especially post-workout I’ve never been topped off post-workout and I’ve, and I just did a ride where I fueled with the 120 grams of carbs per hour I still probably wasn’t topped off Like it’s, it’s really tough to be topped off That’s that’s the thing So yes And lots of carbs, uncomfortable process, low active Yeah Yeah Yeah So don’t think you’re topped off if you’re not, um, don’t think that you’ve reached a point where you don’t need to take anything else in, right So while we’re doing definitions, let me do a couple of caveats As we talk about this, uh, let’s be real specific here So I’m going to restrict this discussion to post-workout intake Now what Nate was saying about, uh, taking in six to 10 grams of carbs per kilogram body weight over the course of the day, that’s actually a really key thing Cause what the, what the current research is suggesting is that the Two most important factors to improving your performance and getting faster are the training stimulus and how well you are consuming nutrition over the course of the whole day to meet your energy demands So that’s the most important thing Now, if we want to get a little bit better than that, we can look at your nutrition

before, during, and after your workout And there’s a really, really nice review paper that we’ll link here It’s by Arent et al And it’s a 2020 review of nutrient timing specifically, but this is a direct quote from the paper And they say in the context of sports, nutrition for optimizing performance and recovery, which is what we want to do, the issue of consuming nutrients should not be separated into before, during or after, but should be combined as before during And after, and I think this is getting to the crux of the question here So when we talk about this today, uh, we’re talking about post-workout intake I’m going to talk about carbohydrate and protein We’re not going to get into the weeds on type of protein type of carbohydrate We’re going to kind of keep this at a high level And then this is all applicable to healthy exercising adults Okay So it may not apply in the same way to, um, physiology where there’s metabolic disorder or something like that But when we’re talking about Healthy exercising adults Uh, this is sort of the framework that we’re going to use to talk about this today So I’ve definitely been a big fan of the four to one carbohydrate to protein ratio in the post-workout recovery And the reason that I’m a fan of that is because it stacks the deck in your favor The majority of studies that look at using a combination of carbohydrate and protein for recovery, use a four to one ratio, and many of these studies show an increase in performance and really no performance detriment And that’s key Um, Is this optimal, is that ideal? Who knows And honestly, that’s, that’s the honest answer No one really knows if I’ve ever used the word optimal or ideal I apologize for that because it’s not a precise use of the language and it’s not exactly accurate the F the idea that we could actually identify an ideal or optimal ratio is Almost impossible There’s just so many different factors, individual physiology type duration, intensity of exercise, type of carbohydrate type of protein There are just so many factors involved that it makes it almost kind of ridiculous to think that we could come up with a silver bullet ratio That’s going to apply across the board, but let’s talk about why carbohydrate and protein are effective So there’s a few concepts at play here in terms of this question and The idea that what you’re taking in during your workout as carbohydrate would top you off and serve the same function as a carbohydrate that you would take after your workout is not quite right So the timing effect here is a really important component The effect of the carbohydrate that you’ve taken during exercise is going to have a different effect than what you take in immediately after or long after your workout And that’s because Hormones, the hormones that are upregulated during exercise are really different than the ones that are going to be upregulated at rest and how they’re interacting is going to be really different And that’s going to affect That’s going to determine the effect of the carbohydrate that you’re taking in at that time So the carbohydrate you’re taking in during is really serving the purpose of trying to catch up on the energy and fuel consumption because you’re in a catabolic state This is a state where you’re breaking things down You’re consuming, you’re burning fuel, you’re taking big molecules, making them smaller, burning them up to fuel the effort that you’re putting out for your workout The carbohydrate after is for rebuilding Those energy and fuel stores So this is your anabolic state So instead of breaking things down and consuming, you are putting them together and building to replenish those stores Um, another quote from this aren’t at all, uh, review article, which is a great one Again, if you want to read that on your own, the quote is post exercise carbohydrate and protein intake have the ability to increase blood glucose levels, decrease cortisol, and increase substrate availability, thus amplifying the body’s shift from a catabolic to a more anabolic state And that’s really the key here is you’re shifting from catabolic and sympathetic to anabolic And parasympathetic and that’s really what the recovery shake is about Yeah Jonathan, this is, I just want to recap something that Amber is saying here In other words, there are different reasons for taking in carbohydrate while you’re training and after So they’re not mutually exclusive They are not the same as well It’s not like you can do one to then make up for a lack with the other, but there’s reasons to take in carbohydrate that are unique for each one of those scenarios Is that, is that correct, Amber? Yeah And I think Nate wanted to jump into Yeah Uh, I would want to say, we’re going to beat it into beat this point in the round three times What you’re saying is body rebuild by doing this, and that’s what you’re doing And it’s going to switch you into a state to be, to be able to rebuild that’s that’s the, that’s the goal Exactly Now here On this podcast, we want to make you faster So what we’re really interested in are the performance outcomes, and there is a, a nice, um, meta analysis of randomized controlled trials that looked at, and this is a 2020 med analysis Uh, we’ll link this one as well, but they looked at studies that were Uh, trying to examine the difference between carbohydrate only versus

carbohydrate plus protein And they looked at intake during and after exercise They looked at effects on time to exhaustion and effects on time trial performance And they, again, we’re looking at this carbohydrate versus carbohydrate plus protein So most of the studies that they found used a four to one ratio By far like the vast majority use a four to one ratio Um, the next most common ratio was a three to one ratio And then there were some smaller ones in there as well When they looked at ISO caloric intake, which is you use the exact same amount of calories, but in one case it’s a hundred percent carbohydrate And in the other case, it’s carbohydrate and protein, there was no difference, no significant difference in the efficacy So They’re about the same Um, what they did find was carbohydrate plus protein, not ISO chloric, but carbohydrate plus protein was showed a significant increase in time to exhaustion in instances where the athletes had a greater than eight hour re hour recovery windows So the biggest effect was seen when the recovery window was pretty long as opposed to a shorter four-hour recovery recovery window Um, and that’s the case for most athletes who are training once a day And even training daily is that’s going to be kind of what your recovery window is And so, and again, time to exhaustion is not the best metric Um, and the authors were really good in this, in this meta analysis about Going through and, uh, detailing all of the differences across these studies, because there are different experimental protocols, different types of carbohydrate, different types of protein So all of this, we need to take with a big grain of salt, but if we’re just looking for general trends and what the very rich body of research is kind of pointing us to the take home message is that carbohydrate plus protein is at least as effective as carbohydrate only It might be more effective and it’s definitely not less effective Which means that adding protein to your carbohydrate is a pretty good bet Right? Nate, you talk a lot about asymmetric risk here I think this is a pretty good example Yeah Like what’s the downside The downside is it’s um, the extra calories, right And 20 grams of protein Um, what is that? Times four would be 80, 20, 40, 60, 80, 80 calories Right Am I doing this right? Right Yep There’s not much It’s like the 80 calories is not much food, so I wouldn’t even worry about that And that’s a very easy to remove 80 calories later in the day Um, so why not do it? And what’s that interesting is a lot of the studies that are looking at performance The more intake you have after your workout, the better the performance increase So when they were looking at the ISO caloric studies, for example, what showed the biggest, the biggest difference was More calories, equaled, better performance And so having, you know, it, wasn’t just about the carbohydrate and protein versus carbohydrate only, but also the amount of energy that you’re taking into to replenish your energy stores That’s really key here So I would say even like the quote-unquote extra calories, like that’s not even a bad thing I don’t, there’s just not really a downside here Yeah And when you look at the potential upside, it’s just so high, right? And that’s the, that’s the potential upside is your workouts are more successful You don’t feel run down so that your workout makes you unable for the rest of the things that you need to do that day, you’re able to recover better There’s just so many upsides So Yeah, right And, and the thing about this stuff, especially nutritional science is there are so many unknowns There are so many mechanism, mechanistic pathways that we just don’t understand Cause it’s really, really hard to study them, especially in human beings Um, and so w we’re we’re operating in a very, uh, we’re just operating in the middle of a lot of uncertainty is what it comes down to And so, again, Part of why we make this recommendation is okay in the face of all of this uncertainty, what are the things that, you know, what are the trends that we see that we can capitalize on to stack the deck in your favor? And that’s really what we’re trying to do Well, we can look at a few kind of mechanistic pathways Um, there’s a lot of, we’ll say that a lot of different recovery pathways, there’s three primary ones that are investigated in the literature These likely contribute to improved performance, but the explicit mechanisms by which that they, they might do, so are really unclear So this is not to say that these are the reasons, but it’s interesting to think about, um, and the three things that I’m going to talk about Quickly our glycogen We want to replenish this muscle protein breakdown We want to reduce this, right? Cause if you’re breaking down proteins, what we want to do is when a protect and conserve the lean mass that you worked so hard to build, right? So we don’t want to break that down And then the last one is muscle protein synthesis So avoiding breakdown is one thing, but actually synthesizing new muscle is a totally different pathway So those are the three things that we’re looking for with recovery And then we’ll look at glycogen first So the obvious protagonist here is carbohydrate

Glycogen is carbohydrate So taking in carbohydrate makes sense Um, One of the things that has long been in the literature That’s being called a little bit more into question now is what’s called the anabolic window We’ve talked about this This is where immediately following your workout You have an upregulation of what’s called glute four transporters And what these do is they just make your muscles, uh, the increase, your muscles ability to take in glucose and replenish replenish muscle glycogen stores So What the science is saying now is we kind of used to look at this as like, Oh, you’ve got to hit that window worlds But with what the science is showing us now is that that little window, and this is the analogy of the authors using the paper It might actually be like this huge gaping hole, the garage door And so that window is, it’s not required You don’t have to hit it, but if you do hit it with carbohydrate intake, the replenishment of glycogen will be faster You can achieve the same end by doing what Nate said and having high levels of carbohydrate consistently throughout the rest of your day, you’ll likely replenish your glycogen stores by the next day But if you just hit it right after that workout, then it’s kind of like an insurance policy You know, it’s going to replenish, it’s going to replenish fast and then you don’t have to worry about it Um, Yeah, go ahead It’s uh, do both, right? Because you’re not going to get the six grams per carbs with just your one That’d be a heck of a recovery shake or you’re going to have diarrhea for days Uh don’t don’t so it’s, it’s, uh, that’s doing both, I think is, uh, is an excellent in to maximize performance We talked about that The previous question about low volume maximizing it Well, do both of those things, right And that could get your performance even further on the same volume, which for all of us, everyone’s like probably time strapped on this, listening to this podcast, what an amazing way to make every minute you put into training to get more out of it And I think that’s like the, the goal for all of us Right? Exactly So this was one of the interesting things that they looked at was Uh, if you’re not going to hit that window, what’s another way to replenish and maximize the glycogen resynthesis and the protocol that is sort of the consensus based on this review is to have one to 1.5 grams per kilogram, per hour carbohydrate within two hours of your workout Then every 15 to 30 minutes For four to six hours Like if you really want to maximize that reset, this is, this is the protocol that they recommend And let’s be honest This is not really conducive to most people’s normal lives Like I don’t know about you, but some people work out in the evening and they might, might not even have six hours before they’re going to go to bed, let alone the time to set an alarm, get up, have some carbohydrate Every 15 minutes, it’s just not practical So this is a good example of where, what we see in the lab as being maximized or potentially optimal Isn’t necessarily applicable or realistic for real life application Um, and one of the interesting things to note in this paper too, is they mentioned that the timed ingestion post exercise carbohydrate, and this is a duck direct quote has never been shown to have negative implications on performance So again, there’s no downside to this and you can only stack the deck in your favor with this and Capitalizing on that window while it’s not essential or required, it’s really efficient And it’s a great opportunity to get that energy replenished in a, in a short amount of time without having to have some kind of a carbohydrate drip or Ivy with the rest of the day I was just going to say, Amber, this is like a stage races Uh, Nate, I’m thinking back to Valley of the sun Uh, when we did that one with Ryan Standish and Keegan Swenson drink, and, uh, they are really good at this They just didn’t stop eating Like they, they had that carbohydrate drip So to speak, go on the, I wonder what Nate’s drinking It’s not normally colored Is this just coffee? I assume Nope Tart cherry juice Oh, God Oh, that’s a bad boss to say dog Sorry exactly Yeah, but th that’s um, uh, but they’re really good at that I’m sure you saw that too, Amber, like with, um, Uh, whether it’s pro athletes, anything else they’re really good at kind of attaching that drip cart to them of carbs in the sense that they’re constantly taking in food afterward and just making sure they do that It’s one of the things that separates athletes like this, um, it makes them better Yeah Remember, I’m sorry I just got to say this Remember way back in the day Carb trickle My, my problem with that was I did not Um, it wasn’t big enough I was keeping it too small Um, but anyways, that’s what this, that’s what it hearkens back to you remember? I was like, I want to eat like a bunch of carbs a little bit, all day long to try to slowly feed back my, uh, my glycogen post-workout now there’s

finally, like at least somebody said science around it and I don’t know Amber, um, I guess that, so that covers the glycogen side or the carbohydrates side of things What about protein plus carbohydrate? Right So again, we kind of said carbohydrate likely protagonists for glycogen, but what about protein? And protein actually has a really positive effect on glycogen resynthesis And we know this because it’s been shown to increase muscle glycogen synthesis, and this is likely due to an increase in insulin secretion Cause Protein, the presence of protein actually helps trigger an insulin and insulin response, and this likely helps the muscles be able to take, take up that carbohydrate to resynthesize glycogen Um, so again, to that question, how much protein, uh, seems that there’s some consensus around about 0.4 grams per kilogram, per hour plus carbohydrate? Probably it may stimulate glycogen synthesis more than carbohydrate alone Especially if the carbohydrate intake is low And by that, they mean less than about a gram to 1.2 grams per kilogram, per hour And again, this is just for my muscle glycogen So adding protein might help and it’s not going to hurt It’s not going to reduce the efficacy of the carbohydrate that you’re going to take in and it might help And so why not? Is really what it comes down to Um, and that, and that’s really an, and I do think that that’s interesting, right? Because you sort of think about like the, the, the protein would be for your muscle and the lean mass and the carbohydrate would be for the glycogen, but they both work synergistically to resynthesize glycogen And that brings us to muscle protein breakdown And again, this is the one that we want to reduce We want to reduce the breakdown So muscle damage and glycogen depletion, both contribute to protein breakdown So we know this, your muscles, you know, you’re using your muscles There’s Micro damage that’s going to happen But the other thing that causes the protein breakdown is glycogen depletion Because if you deplete a lot of glycogen and you don’t have protein and carbohydrate coming in your body is going to find existing protein to break down in order to make new glycogen So surprisingly carbohydrate intake post-exercise decreases muscle protein breakdown So carbohydrate alone protects your lean mass When right, this is good, but it doesn’t have any effect on muscle protein synthesis So carbohydrate can protect existing lean mass, but it’s not going to help you build new lean mass This is also likely related to some to insulin Protein also helps reduce Uh, muscle protein breakdown and protein in particular because carbohydrate can’t promote muscle protein synthesis The protein is the key when you want to make new lean muscle and that’s brings us to the muscle protein synthesis So carbohydrate does nothing for this You need protein, increase this, um, the need for protein post exercise To trigger muscle protein synthesis is affirmed by the international society of sports nutrition They have a position statement from 2017 We can link that one too, but this is absolutely critical If you want to promote muscle protein synthesis, making new muscles So what’s the optimal amount of protein for muscle protein synthesis, who knows what I come down to Um, one study showed that 20 grams high quality, fast absorbing protein, increased muscle protein synthesis after resistance and high intensity aerobic training This wasn’t Normalized by weight and other studies have shown that higher doses of protein can elicit higher muscle protein synthesis in some cases Uh, so as far as, uh, minimum effective dose, no idea, as far as optimal, no idea, but we do know that the protein presence of protein is going to help with muscle protein synthesis We know it’s going to help Preserve lean mass by reducing muscle protein breakdown, and it’s going to help with the glycogen repletion So these are all when good things So bringing this back full circle, why would we recommend four to one post-workout recovery drink? Most of the research that’s been done on this uses four to one, many of those studies show positive performance outcomes, which is all we really care about here And it’s not going to hurt Right? There’s no downside Um, it’s, it’s like insurance having a recovery drink right after every workout you’re taking advantage of that window of opportunity It’s not necessary But it’s like a little insurance plan, you know, you hit that, you know, you put in the carbohydrate and protein to trigger those recovery systems So that’s all good Um, again, this is about signaling You want to train your body to shift from catabolic to anabolic You want to train your body to shift from sympathetic to parasympathetic And Nate already nailed this one, but it’s also kind of a psychological routine that signals you to be like, okay, body We did the work is time to rest and digest and rebuild and that, that routine, and even the flavor of the experience of having the shake, every workout, it creates a nice Pavlovian response for your body to be like, okay, time to chill, rebuild, recover And then lastly, getting back to what we touched on, which is the lab versus

practical, real life application What we want to do is build habits, right? So in this case, by creating kind of a standard Post-workout recovery drink for yourself You can reap 90% of the gains I made up that number for the record, but you can most of the gains for a fraction of the effort, right there, low cognitive load You’re doing the same thing after every workout There’s no downside There’s a potentially huge upside And that sends as opposed to say, like, imagine in some amazing ideal world, you could actually discover the theoretical optimum of Carbohydrate to protein ratio for every single workout and right It would be different for every single workout and different for every single day, depending on the context of what was going on in your life And even if you could actually titrate it perfectly to that perfect optimal amount after every single workout Oh my gosh How much extra effort is that? And really how much marginal gain are you going to get from that? Like, Is it re you know, would that actually be worth it? Yeah, Jonathan, this is why we recommend, like when measuring food and going through that, doing it occasionally, but not, you know, if it’s causing so much stress, having to measure everything all the time and running that that can Defeat a lot of the purposes that you’re really going for, which is make yourself an athlete that can respond better to training Right? It can be, it can be pretty tough if it overwhelms you, Nate I see you smiling thing to say, Alex wild, just open a spreadsheet And that’s just the thing for some people, it’s, it’s a, it’s all part of the process and it’s fun and it’s, and it’s a positive thing for them and for others, it’s not So it’s really important that you like recognize where you’re at on that one thing that I’ve done with this Sorry, uh, Nate again, sorry Oh, I’m just gonna say a four 99.9, 9% of people is a bad idea There is a certain personality where getting the exact, like, not even if it’s right, just trying to figure it out is extremely fun And if you’re not getting the extreme fun out of it, like, Ooh, this is really fun to make this spreadsheet and do all these things Don’t, don’t try to do it cause there’s more harm than good W point is a part of this too, is I think finding something that you enjoy, like you mentioned them, or like the taste of the drink can be like a good signal and one that you enjoy and actually kind of want to take a quick interlude here and just have each one of us share if we have, whether it’s a recovery drink or recovery meal that we really prefer Like the one that we, we go to, if we could, um, Uh, oftentimes my training is just before dinner, so I usually end up going right into dinner and, uh, but recently I’ve actually changed it up and I’ve been drinking the recovery drink then having dinner thereafter Um, the recovery drink that I have landed on It’s one that I’ve tried a bunch of different ones and I’ve come back to this one It’s just the basic cliff recovery chocolate one It’s just delicious I love it It tastes like a chocolate drink and I’m okay with giving myself a full chocolate drink rather than going for something that is, I guess, technically trying to find a minimum effective dose with carbs and doesn’t taste as good So, um, but that’s like, my go-to is Cliff’s recovery one, Pete Uh, what do you have Um, I’m in this strange, I, uh, I’ve been doing non dairy proteins for awhile And so trying to find the best one that I like and enjoy it and makes me feel like I’m rewarding myself at the end Just like you said, like there’s something to be said for doing a lot of work and then giving yourself a reward It makes me very happy So, um, I’ve been trying a lot of different ones and I Pretty much always add maple syrup and some sort of milk to it to get the ratio Correct And once you start drinking maple syrup, man, like life is better for sure Ted King was entered the chat How about you, Amber? Do you have one? I’m sure you’ve had to drink a lot of sponsored products and stuff over the years, but yeah, actually, so, um, the one that I I really like his plain way with lemon-lime Gatorade powder and it’s, it’s cheap and easy, and it tastes like key lime pie I really like that, but I will say that like, there are a lot of awesome products on the market and I’ve tried a whole bunch of them And frankly, like, I don’t stress too much about the ratio If I’m making it for myself, I use a four to one ratio, but if I’m sponsored and I’m getting a tasty recovery drink, by the way, I love that Cliff chocolate It’s just good It tastes like a chocolate milkshake It’s good It’s all good Yeah Like as long as it’s something that is palatable, it tastes good The palatability is really important because again, consistency is key So as long as it’s something that you really enjoy and that’s not going to be upsetting your system, um, and you can kind of think about recovery drinks like saddles There are so many different ones out there that if the one that you’re trying is giving you GI distress Try something else, because I guarantee there is something out there that’s going to work for you, something that’s going to taste good It’s going to sit well on your stomach and it’s going to make you feel great So, um, yeah Try a bunch of different stuff How about you, Nate?

Um, I make more, I don’t make my own, I prescribe my own We talked, I talked to new scramble, little about the four quadrants of the getting things done Um, In my role I’m lucky that I have an assistant and making a whole bunch of drinks would be one of those things where it is work And it feels like you’re getting things done, but it’s not, uh, the most impactful thing I can do So I have prescribed stuff and I have a little fridge That’s right next to my bike, that I was recovery drinks and all my drinks ready for me And that’s a thing is like, I think you’re more likely to do the drink, your recovery drink If you have it ready before you’re done working out and it’s, it’s like, it’s just right there So what I do is I have a hundred grams of maltodextrin I just bought an Amazon, which is super cheap It’s like $5 for 20 pounds or something like that or not 10 it’s I don’t know It’s, it’s very inexpensive and I have 20 grams of, or 25 grams of whey optimum nutrition, like a scoop And then I put in, um, a little bit extra like bulk supplements leucine, just to make sure I get enough leucine Um, this is very important at your whey protein probably has enough losing, but I was like, it’s a little bit extra is not going to hurt And then, uh, I usually throw in some other supplements that have, um, Ooh, aren’t probably, they’re not as where are we going with this? it may not improve performance, but I’m just going to try it Beta alanine, citrulline Malpais I’m not probably saying you those ones, right I know they’re supposed to be before workouts, but it’s in here and little create teams in here too And so that will then change based on the time of year I have a separate bottle to get the beta Allianz truly meditate in before the workout, but I always forget to do it for some reason and, uh, probably no harm during an afterwards And it’s just making my pee expensive But, uh, yeah, so that’s, it’s, these are really cheap just if you just make them yourself with that way Uh, protein Do you have like chocolate or something to it or is the protein chocolate flavored? Is that why it’s? So protein is chocolate He flavored on Onpro, whey protein There’s like a bazillion flavors So whatever you want, they will make Cool And for those wandering Nate, of course, on video, if you’re joining us via audio was showing his recovery drink there on screen So, okay With that out of the, it is a bottle So with that out of the way, cause I know that people would have been asking, well, what do you actually take in, uh, Amber? We can probably continue on sorry for the interlude No, no, no I think that’s great And I think an important note to make is it doesn’t have to be a drink Either drinks are easy to get down after a workout, especially a hard one Yeah Um, so that, that is kind of like a common way to doing it But if there’s just a particular snack that you like, that you look forward to, that tastes really good It sits up well, and your stomach, really, the important thing is getting that carbohydrate and protein into the system And whether it’s four to one or three to one, it doesn’t matter that much, honestly Um, but again, part of the reason for recommending this, that you do this after every workout is the practicality of it Um, this is just as applicable for a morning workout as it is for an evening one Right? So like we were saying, you might not have six hours after an evening workout to eat carbohydrate and replenish your stores But if you have a recovery shake right after that workout, boom You you’ve hit that insurance policy and you know, you’ve got it It also applies for double days So it’s a really flexible, well approach It’s something you can apply consistently, even in, you know, differing changes in training schedule Um, it’s a lot more practical than setting a timer to eat every 30 minutes after your workout for the rest of the day And again, you’re taking advantage of that window to kind of get that insurance and faster replenishment Um, it’s also an easy way to up your protein intake over the course of the whole day Is getting that protein in your recovery shake So if you’re trying to hit some, some macro targets, this is a great way to bump up your protein and take on the whole Um, and on that note, it’s really good to meet your overall energy demands, which as we started this conversation by saying is one of the two most important things for getting faster, the training stimulus and your total daily intake in terms of meeting your, your overall energy needs Um, and lastly, I didn’t pull, you know, I didn’t dig into the science on this per se, but we have so much anecdotal evidence on this that having a recovery shake at the end of your workout helps us stabilize appetite and mood in VR than the many hours after your workout And all of that goes to Enhancing the consistency, not only of the consistency of your training, because if you feel good in the hours after your workout, as opposed to just feeling completely destroyed, you’re going to be so much more likely to get back on the bike again, enthusiastically for your workout the next day Um, so I think that those are some important points to keep in mind I had mentioned this before on long rides, we get done and like, Pete and I are like, Oh my gosh Like, like what can we eat now? Like the fridge does not have enough food, everything give me everything Yeah And that’s, and it, it does work really well Having that shake helps a lot, so that, yeah

If you have that shake And then for some reason you have to wait until like the next meal, anything else like that? It just stops you from grabbing the junky food That’s going to fill some sort of a, a needless void in that moment when really you could have that and then feed with more nutritious food once it’s ready, you know, something like that So it’s, it’s a huge like health tip as well For sure Totally And speaking of health, uh, one more point to make on this, which is that Immune function is another piece of this puzzle So as it happens, uh, if you get sick less often, you’re probably going to make more gains, right? Because Jonathan, you just experienced this, getting sick really sets you back And if you can just avoid getting sick or get sick less frequently, that’s a huge bonus in terms of performance and getting faster Not only does and not to mention that it’s just a nicer way of going about your life Um, Carbohydrate intake during exercise is immuno protective It decreases muscle protein breakdown and it decreases cytokine production, which enhances your, your inflammatory recovery in the hours afterwards Protein and carbohydrate together Post-exercise decreased cortisol, which is also immuno protective and carbohydrate in particular post-exercise may help restore the immune system after high intensity or strenuous exercise And in this case, high intensity was defined as basically anything sweet spot or higher So if you’re doing interval work on the trainer, that’s high intensity work And having carbohydrate during and after and some protein after is immuno protective So this is a good thing, not only for performance, but the authors are quick to point out that this is particularly relevant right now, since we’re in the middle of a global pandemic So yet another thing to consider in terms of the benefits of carbohydrate during an after training So that’s like a ton of, of, of solid science-based evidence that leads us toward why we want to take in carbs during our workouts and after our workouts and doing one or the other, doesn’t cancel out the other one Um, and this probably, so with all that justification in place, it brings us back to the point of finding that minimum effective dose with carbohydrate and our addiction to doing that Now, hopefully with all of that, you can see how silly it is to do that It’s like, you’re just trying to run a Razor’s edge That really has very like the asymmetric risk It’s, uh, pretty obvious to see, um, Nate, do you want, do you want to cover some of that? Cause I know this is something that grinds your gears Exactly And actually somebody for, for what? A sort of somebody in the YouTube chat, thanking Nate right now, because they responded to Nate’s call to take in more carbohydrate When you’re training, when a recent podcast, he mentioned that now he can take an 80 grams of carbs and he feels amazing when he trays So, uh, it’s cool Yes Yes So thanks for joining us in the YouTube chat You can do that every week Um, but then on top of that, it does work Um, so let’s talk about it Yeah And so I think over time there has been different, uh, uh, trends and fitness and in health that are usually brought on by, um, usually books or something And what they talk about is they describe a single mechanism or a mechanism inside the body And because the mechanism works that way, they extrapolate a result And in general, in, um, science, if you find that you can, um, measure the, like the results So like weight loss, body composition, fitness, and it does not match up with the mechanism That means there’s probably something else that’s going on that we’re not aware of yet to Amber’s point earlier It’s very hard to figure this stuff out Like we can go We’re probably gonna get to Mars before you figure out everything that’s in our bodies Like I’m positive about that, which is insane to think So the mechanism that doesn’t match with the outcome true, right? Don’t say the outcome is wrong Say we don’t know enough about the human body to understand it And Uh, outcome is fantastic, but mechanism is also fantastic too, because once you understand more mechanisms, you can design more studies, do more research that are more targeted and more insightful And then you can kind of validate these things like, uh, you know, all the, the recent vaccine stuff there’s been, the RNA advances are, that’s all done out based on how we know the body works and that has then helped us develop a more effective vaccine for COVID Apparently, um, like I say, apparently, because it’s, uh, the efficacy and I’m just, this is a scientific talk, right? Yep Not, no, not allegedly That’s the wrong word, but it’s based on the data we have it’s 90 plus percent effective Right? So, uh, the two ones with M RNA But just in general, I think this is a people will argue

They say, Hey, that, that outcome is impossible because of this mechanism And we’re like, but we’ve measured the outcome, like attack that the outcome was not measured correctly Don’t say the outcome is impossible because of this, this mechanism I hope that makes sense to everybody Um, and oftentimes people will try to Say that the outcome is wrong by throwing really like they’ll do like the Krebs cycle and be like, because of the Krebs cycle, blah, blah, blah It’s very complex And everyone else is like, well, I can’t argue against that because that person sounds like they’ve read a lot of books, but you can just kind of, you know, do some gravity tests Oh, gravity is a great example Well, then we’ll learn more So we’ve, we’ve observed Newtonian physics for many, many years And then as we get into other observations, we’re like, Ooh, when we get down to like electrons, they don’t They don’t behave the same way And we have to come up with a whole, another explanation, our old explanation of how we thought it was, is wrong, and this will continually happen And, and, uh, inside of training and nutrition, and that’s just the process of science So expect that and be proud of that Don’t say that Uh, that’s, that’s what you want out of it I’m kind of rambling here, but Amber, why don’t you say something intelligent? Cause I think you waiting to hear from Pete bounces back to Pete No, I, what, what need is really saying is, is I it’s my favorite thing I, and I say it all the time is Nutrition it’s it We don’t understand enough So it’s always going to change what we know now doesn’t necessarily hold true It didn’t hold true in the past and it doesn’t necessarily hold true in the future Um, but one of my favorite things about this topic specifically is, um, when, in my experience with other athletes, cyclists and other sports, if you aren’t someone who religiously takes a recovery meal, beverage, whatever I guarantee that changing that one single thing will have such a monstrous change in the way that you feel and are able to do what you set out to do It will change It will, it feels like something There’s another force in the universe that’s helping you get through your workouts Um, it’s, it’s UN it’s mind-blowing And so if you’re one of the people who feel like I’m not working out enough to deserve this There’s no deserve there’s, you’re doing something and put, put something back in your body so that you’re capable of doing it again the next time And I’ve seen this across brand new cyclists I’ve seen it across very experienced cyclists For some reason, they just don’t think they deserve is usually the word I hear recovery and Once that changes there Some of the fastest people I know got even faster Some of the people who I knew were not, not making the gains, they thought they could make, as soon as they change that they’ve transformed into different type of an athlete And it’s because you are just fueling and then signaling, those are the two things That this kind of all goes back to, if you fuel your day, if you feel fuel your workout and you recover with something that signals your body to like reap the rewards of the work you just did, this is that’s, it, that’s all we did And it was a lot to do that But once you change your body to kind of accept all that, you turn into a completely different athlete And I think that’s, what’s crazy about all this You’ve just triggered Amber, whenever you say I don’t deserve this, like, I think that’s a trigger for Amber, right? Yeah Big time Big time Don’t do that to yourself It’s still true And I think, I think we can fix that Like you’ve done something and you have to put it back in your body too Change your body to be more ready for more work and to be stronger the next time that’s all you’re doing Give your body what it needs to do, what you’re asking of it It’s not rocket science Yeah And we’d get out of our own body’s way Right? Like just, just let it, yeah Let it have amazing And we hold them, like, we ask so much of them and we take them for granted And then, you know, we act like Taking in food is something that has to be earned I mean, your body, just your body keeps you alive every single day It’s kept you alive your whole freaking life I mean, your body makes it so you don’t have to think about contracting your heart muscle muscle every time you need to I mean, just that one thing alone Pretty astonishing Um, and then you start to dig into it a little bit deeper and it’s just mind blowing and your body’s amazing and it deserves nourishment So just, yeah, let’s not be silly about this We should probably end this, uh, this question here with, uh, some, uh, this is actually a tweet, a series of tweets by a EcoSign sound Milan Um, he’s a sports researcher who was also a previous, he was a pro cyclist as well Um, And, uh, Amber, you put this tweet in here Do you want to read it? Cause I think that it’s, it’s good because a lot of, we see studies

that apply to sedentary people When they’re talking about, you know, American, the standard American diet, and we see all this stuff and a lot of the time we extrapolated across to us athletes and we assume that everybody above us is doing something that is involving more deprivation, more something else And they’re just somehow managing to make it work I like this tweet for, for that reason You wanna read that Amber? Yeah It’s to follow on what you said I think a lot of people who are listening to this you’re exercising regularly, you might even be working out every single day and you might still feel reluctant to refer to yourself as an athlete So when we talk about athletes, you might kind of automatically count yourself out of this group that we’re referring to But again, like I said, this is, this is about, you know, healthy exercising adults So if you’re a healthy exercising adult, you by our definition are an athlete Um, and I think that because people tend to see themselves as You know, average then when they read studies or read articles that are talking about kind of the average sedentary lifestyle, they lump themselves into that category because it feels a little bit too arrogant to call yourself an athlete and exceptional from that group But the truth is if you’re exercising regularly, you’re not, you’re not living a sedentary lifestyle So a lot of these things don’t actually apply to you again in the absence of metabolic disorder So these tweets by an ego say Milan, I thought were really, um, really wonderful So he was, this was in context with a Twitter thread that he initiated by lamenting, uh, Just missing these chocolate paninis that he used to have as a kid And he said, let’s see, I’ll read the there’s two from October 20th And then there’s one from December 1st So the two from our 20 October 20th go like this processed carbohydrate are probably not good, but in my modest opinion, lack of physical activity or very little is the primary problem Elite athletes have the highest carbohydrate diet, including processed carbohydrate, and yet don’t have obesity Acquired type two diabetes or cardiovascular disease Their mitochondria are amazing He also says, all I’m trying to say is that carbohydrates and wonderful chocolate are not responsible for the obesity epidemic in, in my opinion And that’s him speaking Seddon tourism is the primary problem causing mitochondrial dysfunction and inability to oxidize carbohydrate properly The secondary problem comes from adding carbohydrate when it can’t be metabolized So if you’re training regularly, your body needs this fuel and this is it For all the reasons we just outlined it’s going to be a good thing And then the third tweet he has is on December 1st Um, he says there’s no evidence that carbohydrate restriction works in terms of athletic performance We were doing it already over 30 years ago When I raised, in fact, I’ve never seen an athlete be successful, restricting carbohydrate In fact, I’ve seen too many careers destroyed by it And I can, and I’m tired of this We must end this trend And I think, again, there are so many reasons that carbohydrate gets vilified in mainstream internet feeds, but it’s really, really important to examine the context around those claims and really think about how those, how that context applies to you as an individual, we just solved the car debate Right there, gobble struck, done I’m sure the internet will all agree So, um, that was awesome Thank you, Amber, for going over All of that to recap, uh, carbohydrate intake is, is What your body needs in particular, because you’re an athlete, uh, give yourself credit for that hard work that you do You are an athlete, so you are not an average person Yeah I want to say just one more comment on that You might say him, I’m two to 2.5 Watts per kilo You know, I’m not these huge numbers you compared to the average American, my goodness Have you seen the average American Like there’s other countries too I’m looking at you, UK and Australia, all of us Like we’re not very, uh, that the average person you are at a such different You’re on Mars, right Compared to the average person So don’t, you should be so proud of yourself and if that’s, you are, uh, and you should not lump yourself in to the person that you see at Walmart Right Right There are completely different people Uh, Hey, Walmart Same to the average American We know what you mean though Yeah, yeah, yeah Otherwise I’m just saying that’s a great place to see some Americans Is that Walmart because indeed Yeah So give yourself credit taking in carbohydrate during your workout doesn’t mean you don’t need it after taking it in after it doesn’t mean you don’t need a during taking it in before it doesn’t mean you don’t need it during it all has a point and a purpose and it all has its own unique advantages depending on the different States that you’re in So Let’s eat carbs and get fast, rapid fire section, Jeremy says, and this is the most crucial question of the podcast We should have started off with this in the beginning I need in all caps, need pizza, take on the new Spico arrow bars

So for those that don’t know what those are I’m not sure that we are actually able to screen share this week Um, uh, but yeah There Pete, can you explain these things and explain your take? Because as soon as I saw these, you, I thought of you instantly So there they’ve effectively kind of glued together, time trial bars onto, sorry Yeah That’s not what it is They’re they’re custom, they’re custom made carbon fiber handlebars for per person and more or less what they are trying to do is get you into a more narrow position with forearm rests On your hoods and they have some very shallow drops and they also have most of their length in the hood kind of area And so the STEM is very short Um, and so the idea being is they’ve kind of split the difference between TT bars and being on your hoods is how I, how I’ve been thinking about it when I’ve been writing lately And They look kind of awesome I’ll I’ll say it, uh, they are absolutely terrifying to me because Think about every time you stay in your Titi bars through a turn and your chances of success are like, I feel like they’re 5% or 10%, like I’m gonna, I’m gonna stay in that in the TT bars, but I’m going to crash So I’ll just do it And this, this really compromise It has to compromise handling for aerodynamics And Nate’s all about that No, no See the nice thing about this So that would be the hood length is the length of your forearm And then they take away all the STEM length for in order for this to work And it’s not gonna work for all people on all bikes, but P so like if you’re a writing, you know, you see the typical tour de France rider, they drop their elbows They’re not in the drops They’re actually keeping their forearms parallel to the ground, like level And that’s faster for most people, you get a smaller frontal area But Pete on those turns what you do because your hands still are on the brake levers And on the hoods, you just straighten them You go through the turn and you drop right back in Uh, into the, uh, the arrow position So I don’t, I wouldn’t recommend going in with your, like, just like a regular road riders They don’t usually turn with their elbows dropped on road bars The same thing here I think it just does Is it supports you? I find in this position for myself, it is extremely fatiguing and I can not stay in this position at all Uh, but these bars, one thing is they’re very narrow, right, Pete, how are they? 36 I think they’re even there I think they’re 30, somewhere between 30 and 36 Uh, but they, that is so narrow That’s two thirds of the width of my bar It would be very, very narrow You could squeeze into there and cry I did think about that and what I’m, what I’m thinking, if it is, is long, relatively straight road stages, where you’re spending most of your time and energy going on One direction I can’t say since I haven’t written them, maybe they handle amazingly Maybe they don’t, but I probably wouldn’t ride them in something that’s ultra technical, where I’m not spending a bunch of sustained time in my flat forearmed Aero position people So if Pete shows up with these things, you know what he’s planning to do? Yeah Yes That’s a good point If somebody has these bars is like, yeah Okay That guy’s going to be at a breakaway It’s like so clear It’s like when they show up and they have like a skin soon, like arrows, tall socks and everything else, like, yeah You’re not going to sprint that Guy’s not planning on a sprint Yeah, exactly I think, I know everyone loves wide for gravel I hate wide for gravel, but on a gravel race, these would be pretty dope because you can, you don’t have to have the, uh, arrow bars on it But when you’re alone for two hours, right by yourself, you could drop in, be more arrow and go The it’s only, I think it could be hard Uh, if you’re not used to the narrowness, it could get really, uh, tiring on parts of your body But w I would love to try this I’m calling it out right now, a friend of the podcast, Jessica Bush, this is how you’re going to get around the arrow bar thing Aren’t you like, you’re going to use these They’re not technically air of ours, so you’re going to be able to sneak your way right through Um, but yeah, it’s a whole different thing They are wild They’re crazy You can check them out on cycling tips as an article, all about them They’re wildly expensive Aren’t they 1500 us or something like that is just 15 or under euros Oh my gosh So very expensive Uh, but there, you know what, I’m all for it though Let’s change up some of the standard stuff that we have with bikes, you know, we should change it up So, uh, okay And while we’re covering extremely important questions, 10 wall tires, yay Or nay, this one’s from Alexi, uh, on both mountain and road Yes All tires should be tan walls Whoa That’s bold stance, Amber

I like the tan walls Yeah I would say get, yeah, either one black or tan They both look good Just don’t go black and tan That’s weird We have about nine mathematical use So use all nine to express my persnickety opinions on this Um, but no, I think, I think that it absolutely depends on the bike Like if you have a green on your bike, 10 wall tires can look very wrong I’m just going to tip it in my personal opinion So I know very strange color green Now, if you’ve got like British racing green, we’re an entirely different place That’s great Please use the tan walls But see your umbrella statements are just, you know, you can’t say that thing Well, we can go for hours on this feet How many shades of green are there they’re making So, um, but yeah, I I’m, I’m all for them The only problem is that in a lot of the cases, the best tires, or they don’t have the best selection of tires and 10 wall, so that you have with black, uh, on the other side So Anyways, glad we solved those big questions Tyler says, please put this one in the rapid fire section What are your favorites in each category? Favorite gel, uh, Martin for me, but not because it tastes great It just works I like untapped maple taste I’m a Boston cream I cliff Yeah Yeah Oh yeah I know what you’re going to say, cliff Yeah, he shared, he had like a whole, I think he had a whole Fanny pack full of Boston cream pie ones When we were up in Oregon this year, sharing them with everybody Pete’s like the best Glip investor ever I know it does He gives, he brings extra snacks If you’re I was Pete in a Fanny bag, he always brings extra And he has, like, he doesn’t even, you don’t even have to ask you like opens it and gives it to you So like, you’re like, I don’t want this to go to waste My wife was like close to bonking and she just like kept taking, she didn’t even ask peaches, kept giving her gels whenever we stopped every single time kept her alive He was great Uh, favorite blocker chew on that Well, yeah Cliff watermelon shoes My favorite Yeah Assault salted watermelon salted watermelon for me too Cliff salted, or, uh, I love honey stinger waffle the pink lemonade shoes Yeah, those are good too They’re kind of like a tangy, almost have a zing to them Yeah Uh, favorite bar I see when riding The rice Krispie treats Ooh Yeah, overruled Whatever I had in my head you’re going to have, uh, I’m I like the coffee, um, cliff bars for ride food ride bars, for sure I don’t do any bars of, I just don’t They don’t do well with me when I ride, but it’s hard to eat Did you see on my Instagram, my, my wife bought my kids like giant sheets of rice, crispy bars And you like cut them out and you do decorations Um, that’s it I want to pull up with one of those with Jack cause chapel was this okay It’d be like, here’s my nutrition I’m like butter on my body Like pads, rice, crispy pads Like for those who don’t know, like 80% of the stuff I do is just trolling Chad, like favorite thing in life And he doesn’t realize it It’s the truth Actually, I take it back My favorite one is the cliff bar with Catarina national in it, not because of the flavor, but Catarina is my hero and she’s just awesome So it’s cool that she has her own cliff bar Um, and I always liked taking pictures of it whenever we go somewhere and they send them to her and I’m like, ask her how she’s enjoying the trip, wherever we’re at we’re at So it’s a good, fun thing You should tag Catarina and whichever ones you have with the, um, Oh, gosh, what flavor is it? It’s a banana nut banana nut Um, uh, yeah So w please take pictures of Catarina and where you’re taking her on your adventure Stanley, but with Catarina Exactly Exactly What’s in my mind All right Favorite mid ride gas station snack, glazed donut I’m a doughnut or two, uh, as soon as, as soon as I’m peddling my bicycle, a donut is absolutely something I want In addition to regular life to Nate, um, ice cold Coca-Cola and a sleeve of Crum donuts, you know, there’s a like little Debbie sleek Chrome donuts Yeah, those are mine Coconut crumb thingies Yeah Yep Coconut crumb, little Debbie donuts They’re the number one And then her retos or how to eat those, however you want to say it, but, uh, the lime soda, it just tastes like lime jello It’s incredible It’s the best So And it’s like buckets of sugar, so, okay And then last thing, and this is a quote favorite I just did a massive ride, a need to eat Jonathan’s weight and whatever I want food because that’s like the fridge rate Right Uh, my favorite is just, Oh, giant burrito with a ton of horchata

I’m a burrito or Bri it’s so, so convenient You can just inhale like 1200 calories, just like that Nate on cornea, SATA burrito, zero question I do burritos like every day So I feel, I don’t know I obviously is Popeye’s the Popeye’s or a hamburger and fries, but fries are the key part of that And Popeye’s has excellent fries, but I think I’ve done Someone got mad at me Cause I would say done instead of eat That’s just a thing I say Uh, cause they thought I had an unhealthy relationship, but I’ve, I’ve had Popeye’s once in the last year, but it was after like a 70 mile mountain bike race And it was great And I like, I chatted to like Keegan and Ryan and Jonathan and I showed pictures and it described it and it was delicious and we were all happy for him We, we reacted with love, emojis on all of it So, um, it’s your award? Uh, you gotta, you gotta let yourself have that It’s it’s awesome So, okay We’re going to cover one more question and then we’ll be done, uh, for the, for this episode and this one’s from Ethan and it’s about how to bounce back from over-training So Ethan says I’ve recently discovered your podcast and love it listening I feel like I’m in a cycling cafe with a group of seasoned pros Who’ve invited me to sit at their table and this is awesome That’s really cool Um, I’m definitely not the season yet, so it must be Jonathan over here Um, cool He says I’m 54 and I’ve been riding for fun and friendly competition for years Usually picking a half dozen events to train for and doing my best at Historically, my training has been fairly on point and I can normally count on finishing in the top third in any event, way to go He says in 2020 with all events being canceled, I went off my schedule and wrote as often as I could for as many hours as I had time for always solo Unfortunately I burned out horribly in may and ex exhausted with heavy legs and frequently light headed I took all of June off I haven’t had my doctor run a battery of tests on me, but she found I was in fantastic health, despite not feeling like it After my break, I was back at full strength in July and August, but waned a bit And he says again, by October, since then, I’ve accepted I seriously over-trained and keep taking recovery weeks, but seems like he says, but it seems like a week off has me feeling invincible for a few days Then I’m exhausted again So my question for you, how does an aging warrior in his fifties bounce back from over-training without a soul and without a soul and fitness crushing winter off the bike Forgive me for breaking up the cadence there he says And how might the same guy returned to training hard next year without facing over-training again? I have peers well older than me who are still going strong and a, not ready to hang my bike up yet Uh, so thank you So his question is how to bounce back from over-training with the asterisk on that being as an aging athlete in his fifties, rather than a young 20 something or something else, when you could do whatever you wanted, seemingly, and then wake up the next day and be at peak performance Uh, so Pete, I kind of want to hand it to you on this one first Um, what, what do you, what would you want to tell them in this case, how to bounce back from over-training? Um, I think one of the things we talked about a lot is if you’re, if you’re really trying to fill a time, uh, an, uh, an exact amount of time in your life with only cycling, you will not be doing what you are supposed to be doing, and we’ve seen it happen I’ve seen it happen countless times over the years where If you have four hours to spare every third day, you just fill it every minute of it with cycling And that’s your check Mark You’re like, I filled my spare time with cycling And what you’ll do is you can really kind of grind yourself down without noticing it because you’re not holding yourself accountable day after day after day Um, and generally speaking, all of the workouts you’re doing should be like a nice reminder of how you should be feeling Like our workout should make you feel a specific way and you should be, uh, focusing on how that feels and then the next time and the next time and the next time And you’ll be able to tell really quickly if you’re on a downward trajectory or maintaining or getting faster when you’re just filling your time with writing, which is very easy to do And I, I know many of us would choose to do that If we could, um, you can’t kind of keep your fingers on the pulse the same way And so you kind of have to remove the success of your cycling with filling the time and more with you’re trying to do specific things with your time in cycling and how to do those things And I think that’s the first thing we got to break apart Um, and once you’re there, then you can start unwinding all the other things that are going on with the, with the training and the over-training and all that But if you don’t fix the first thing, you’ll that the rest of what you do probably won’t matter That’s how, that’s how I’m thinking of this question

I know Amber, you had some notes too Yeah, I totally agree I, I, I think that Yeah, well, first of all, with over-training when you, when you overdo it, it can take a really, really long time to recover from this I, I got severely overtrained myself and it Probably, I felt a lot better over the course of months, but it really wasn’t until a year or two later that I actually realized that I felt back to my normal self So it’s really, really good First of all, that you’re noticing this and that you’re doing something about it So huge, kudos you right off the bat Um, the other thing I just want to mention about the, the doctors telling you like, Oh, you you’re perfectly healthy Um, Just because your say blood test results fall within reference ranges doesn’t mean the most important thing is how you’re feeling If you know that you’re feeling off something is off and if it’s not showing up in your blood work Okay But it doesn’t mean that you’re fine If you don’t feel fine, you’re not fine Right So, so trust your intuition, trust your body Um, and, and I would encourage you to try to work with your doctor a little bit to, to dig more deeply into the symptoms that you’re feeling, even if they’re not like really, even if they’re nebulous symptoms and they’re really qualitative and it’s really hard to pinpoint what’s going on Um, I’ll give an example My family, we have familiar familial thyroid problems So I’ve been hyperthyroid my whole life It’s just a familial thing It’s not a big deal Um, but it’s something that I kind of have to titrate with my doctor and, and figure out how, uh, my supplement is going to is going to affect me And one of my One of the best doctors I’ve ever worked with that She said exactly this, if you’re not feeling right, just because you’re within the right reference range, doesn’t mean that this is optimally working for you So let’s, let’s work on moving you within that range and see if we can get a better outcome in terms of how your symptoms are feeling So trust yourself, you’re doing a great thing by taking the time to actually address this now, um, and be patient with yourself And then the other thing I would say is focus on some other, yeah Kind of ancillary things around the training, because I know that It’s hard to say, just stop training because you’re, over-trained because it’s, it’s an, it’s a mental and emotional outlet as much as it is physical And that can be really helpful in the healing process too So you don’t necessarily want to Rob yourself of that, but you definitely need to dial it back Dialing back on the volume is going to be really helpful Um, dialing back probably on the intensity as well, but you can also Focus on some self care type activities that will help your training like mobility work I think that that’s a really good one You can focus big time on that It feels like you’re taking care of yourself And then when your body is healed and you’re back to your, you’re able to start taking on a higher load of training on the bike You’re going to be in a really, really good position to be able to handle that kind of work And especially at the older we get The more we’re going to gain from doing mobility work So I think that that’s just kind of like a no brainer, um, thing that you can get into That’s not going to be detrimental and, uh, it can help focus your mind and still be a little bit of an outlet Nate, you recently even went through about, of this Yeah Ethan, you are doing too much volume Simple as that you’re trying to come back and like, what can I do to solve, to do too much volume again in the future? Um, you have to do less volume It might be for the rest of your life It might be for six months It might be for a year or two volume and intensity I would reduce that Um, here, here, I just want to give you some ideas of what to do, and then I’ll tell you about my experience One is more rest between hard workouts You’re saying like every, every, you know, I come a full strength And then after a couple days, I, uh, I, you know, I, I feel exhausted again Well, I would maybe do, if you do one intense workout, either the next day have completely off or do a light aerobic ride and then have a complete day off So every like third day I have a complete day off If that’s not enough Have it every other day be a complete day off And then if that’s not enough, reduce the intensity of the rides to be a robotic in nature until you start feeling better again, uh, based on everything you heard in this podcast before Totally look at those, uh, recovery drinks and carb intake, the amount you will recover when your carb intake intake improves is insane Um, I don’t, I don’t, if you’re trying, if you’re also trying to just calorie restriction in general every time, or I have Imploded I try to like, I am getting so fast and then I’m like, well, what if, what if I like, just, what if I lost two more pounds? I did it while John was talking like, I’m one 92 right now If I was one 88, I would be 4.2 Watts per kilo, as fast as John and I could drop John, maybe someday if he has a bad day And I’ve never done that on a climb in my life And I just thought of my life I was like, what happened? I was like, no, Nate, that is bad Don’t do that Because on the watch and the volume, you’ll be faster in the long And so I would, that’s just one thing to think about sleep Um, how was work, you know, all that, all that sort of stuff, make sure you’re, uh, um, you’re feeling it So in my experience, when I had this, my little implosion, um, I

would fail workouts, workouts that I knew I should’ve been able to do And I would have this feeling during the day of my heart being light and fast, like by my resting heart rate was a lot higher But also just felt like w light I don’t know It’s kind of a weird thing to say, but even while lying in bed for me, I took a complete week off and then I had four to eight weeks of like 50% reduced volume I had more rest between hard workouts and I made the super day super easy Like some of these are Leno 45% of FTP So basically, like, it doesn’t even feel, it feels like walking pretty much Um, And then after that I had actually a bigger boost in fitness And now I’m trying to, uh, not as much volume as I used to do, but more than I had before And then I’m going to take more often, actually recovery weeks I just was talking to John about this I might be trying to two on one off, uh, instead of a three on one off a ratio for myself, because in that third week I’m pretty fried and I don’t need to be extra fried Right? Like I’m, I might be better doing less overall for the whole Buy something I’m getting older too I’m 38 So yeah, I would, but in general, you’re doing too much Ethan Like you’re, you’re telling us you’re doing too much I come back and I overtrain, what do I do? It was pretty obvious right? From the outside As most things do, uh, right outside in looking in where it’s hard to see yourself What everybody’s chaired here is, has been awesome Once again, re doubling down on the carb discussion too, that we have there that can really help Uh, the only thing that I would add to this at the end is to remember that you are not an athlete And you are not at a cyclist because you train today That’s a big thing that we have to break because when we miss a workout, we tell ourselves all sorts of negative things We have the temptation to, to be like, you’re not even a cyclist You didn’t train today Everybody else training that you can race against And there’s all these negative thoughts that creep in with that And you have to block that out And you have to break this association that you have with, if I’m not training really hard, if I’m not training a ton, if I’m not returning completely exhausted, then I’m not a cyclist You need to break that assumption In this case, you doing the best thing for your health is actually also the path toward becoming the best cyclist you can be, which is actually the case for all of us So, and, and in whichever circumstance we’re in So in this case, Ethan Focused like, Oh, I really like what Amber said, focus on mobility work Maybe some strength work, focus on, on Maybe it’s when you’re on the bike You just work on skills I don’t know Like you work on something different than finds more fun into the sport of cycling as well Mountain biking, cyclocross, gravels, something different I don’t know, but don’t associate time off with you not being an athlete Time off is a part of the athletic process So as you learn to manage that and include that into your move forward, moving progress, you’re going to be in a much better head space, but then you’ll also be healthier as well So, um, hopefully that was helpful for Ethan and everybody else that may be coming up against something like that Uh, fuel with carbs, whether it’s during or after or before, uh, make sure you’re kind to yourself with over-training and then if you’re a beginner racer, make sure that you, uh, don’t ward out stage races Those are the main takeaways and of course, tan walls Um, so thanks everybody for joining us on this week’s podcast Remember, you can submit questions@trainroad.com slash podcasts That would be huge We’d appreciate that We get so many questions every week and please keep doing it We really appreciate it Even if we can’t answer every question and please share this podcast with The other people I always talk about this, but if everybody just shared the podcast with one other person, imagine how many more people we can make faster As a result of that, it’d be great The world will be a faster place and a fast place is a good place So thanks everybody We will talk to you next week Goodbye Everyone You have to say goodbye guys Not just