Morning Startup – An Introduction to Patents & IP (IP Session Panel)

morningstar can also tell you about a few things that are going on on Justin hopefully you’re getting started on very eccentric at a very special session for you this morning but I’m gonna lecture Lee introduced that session our speakers for you today a little bit later but now I’m going to tell you a little bit about morning start-up and a few things going on we do this every two weeks we’re aiming to provide for them for you for an introduction to start really how many people have heard that speech before lots of regulars how many newbies the audience first time and second as we continue to see upwards of seven to ten new faces every session and Morningstar’s fantastic i think that’s testament a bit to me to the fact that our tech startup community here in perth continues to grow as we reach into people that are excited to be starting their own businesses or curious about what it means to be involved in the next are very encouraged to see all those new places coming to events like morning star so thank you for being here we hope that we can help you with understanding where to go next in your turn if you’re interested in running a tech startup and joining one and understanding a little bit more what this is about well we can help you with that by providing access to expert speakers and an opportunity to network with some of your peers who have similar interests so thanks for being here this morning that’s where bad will do this enter the Wednesday here and we do this with help from some sponsors Egypt group principal among them when I said I Robbie come in morning rocky beach and grupe is an organization that’s a aligned with our in terms of seeing the text art in grow and they are an excellent resource if you have a problem can be solved in talent for example th blind date technical co-founder econ business off the ground highly sophisticate next to Bobby where they’ve got top and they’re working later on today they do vision group in addition we have a lot of support from business news we’ve got the CEO business news here today Charlie gonnigan has graciously accepted a role as host of this morning’s panel and will get from Charlie also highly recommend check out business news if you want to hear what’s going on and start community largely thanks to Charlie’s efforts the business news now profiles one start of each week so it’s becoming a great source of information on what’s going on and space cube the fantastic venue or happenings in the Sun community we’re here because basically make this place available to us you so thank you very much Brody wherever you’re floating around the kitchen doing dishes so you don’t have any formal slides for this morning we have a panel of experts to answer your questions today but before we do that I want to share with you a little bit about the exciting things that are going on fixed our community amcom yesterday announced their tech accelerators be hosted upstairs the line the space too I’m doing to say to each other yeah sure sangmi quantum accelerator programs a bit of welcome for the whole thing together that’s what the world thank you very much charlie is mental from an accelerated program on the non forward Spacely space in collaborative effort between he group space cute animal the program provide forty thousand dollars into the seed capital for each startup program for up to eight startups 13 week program commits along the first of June my applications will be open for the accelerator program next Monday and then we need to make sure the session here at space few on tuesday the 17 so i’ll get on people making session in order some more information you can meet some of the men osram home and and some of the mentors from the programmable and my start hombre you check it out thanks bot how many of you all of you fantastic that’s excellent on earth is a national program this year about identifying the top talent and tech community and putting them to work on solving the resources problems we saw my technology that’s that’s a poor way of describing program we’re about creating a sustainable tech startup ecosystem in Perth based on the opportunities that are represented by one of our largest in description oil gas mining construction and last year we found our first hackathon headspace cubed in May that saw upwards of 70 of Australia’s top developers and data scientists work on a few problems that industry brought in table along with some some data people who participated in that event come to you on their intellectual property and the winners of

the invention may went on to secure place in our SL is about taking companies who have products that are focused on the resources sector from prototype to product at about six months so that’s another accelerator run out of line in space judo stairs and I’m proud to announce that our second event will be held here in Perth March twentieth of this year and this week early bird tickets will go on sale for that event so that’s again a hackathon event where technical though slightly and build prototype solutions to industry problems and then they have an opportunity to apply for a spot in our tech accelerator after that so see me when we have some time for networking if you’d like to learn more or you can check out other foot posture other things why my bro you there weren’t enough yet really quickly so anomic that the position is bringing artists where we develop this well the hackathons next weekend but I see a pretty long relatives and then things to the info sessions or not registration quantity and Kobe on transmission or zap selves a skeptic next week next Wednesday which is going to have a lot of bitch came flying in from Silicon Valley over the place I’m a basically a day-long conference mas house is a third one yes is what’s going that’s great intended shaping up to be incredibly next battle to all right we started morning startup probably about three and a half years ago at that time there wasn’t so much going on those of you have been here with us that long as if you face it’s in the audience that have been here that long we’ll remember sitting around as a group of eight people sharing our experiences and trying to help each other out of our journey now look at us we’ve got more than thousand members in morning start up there are tons of other meetup groups for whatever your interest is and now we’ve got at least three formal accelerators happening here in Perth and lots of opportunities to find a path for your tech startup through two products available on the market place so very very exciting times having to be a part of what’s going on there and I think you should all feel very excited to be here and know that there is there are growing opportunities for running textiles out of isolation good on you and I’d like to now introduce Charlie going MCO business news and a successful tech entrepreneur himself who will talk about this morning session the room when the other newbies want to get up and promote what they do I Catch net wait what I apron morning my name is package i’m starting a social enterprise called karma it’s based on the philosophy of giving it forward and come it’s a ecommerce platform so it ran the company new products and services to us as you sell on online tui karma the money goes to Chinese that implicated by x 30 seconds thank you what I promise okay see poverty car anyone else you go all right good we’ll get shredded to it remember i did my mba many years ago I went into maybe a is a fresh preschool teacher from England probably tell from a strange accent wwa my entrepreneurship professor said would you do if and when you do your startup company bootstrap bootstrap bootstrap the best thing i’ve already something foolproof struck financed by parmer bina bhi de 1993 Harvard Business Review look it up but he said but do not scrimp on a good lawyer and good accountant but the best advice / had those of you who’ve been in some of the IP issues you get into I had to have you been Lauren SI having copyright protection paint protection such a property protection and trademark protection we’ve got three experts here but copyright expert and I be expert and a painting expert gracious will come today to talk to you you get to talk for five minutes and I’m timing you guys five minutes it’s Jesus off briefly and say like whatever you are in and maybe give one piece is really well advise us today we might be able to expand on it those five minutes but then it’s going to be open to questions all right so if we introduced on my lap of stephanie corner from Ray’s who loves cooking and is a singer and in fact the brother is the lead singer for liberty gurus right Stephanie and guide private and got a guy problems website watermark sorry Stephanie’s from grace they’re also great supporter Bieber if I played a role so the guy used to work at three hills now has been working at all

in micro Lebanese just do now sony bouquets on your own that’s right with a watermark and guys up to lovely little Scottish accent which I electronics fantastic go to his website the Obama spade there’s a picture which I’m much approve that playing forward defensively cricket bat which I think has got an allergy so you know protecting yourself that’s what I tell my mighty assuming Maris undergoes quick very important having a row and now look you know Rowan was problem ron was is a big supporter was done including pops up all over the place we support of space clean start and Romans here as well and adjusting back row in the attendant going to love this geeks in the room it attended the world sci-fi convention in a London last year that doesn’t get freshen up for funky lawyers I don’t know what will so without further ado Stephanie you’ve got five minutes to introduce yourself and recalling something on toes okay that’s what we’ll Stephanie and okay so I came out of the music industry not just because of my brother but also I was a lawyer and I did lots of deals some contracts management contracts Molitor meals and so on and the thought occurs to me whatever happened to the gentleman’s agreement where a man all handshake was as good as their bond the reality is one I don’t know whether it’s due to the global financial crisis where everything now gets mainly rapidly the cheapest cost in a low-cost jurisdiction where everybody is trimming their budgets as a means of trying to contain costs maintain a solution but it appears to me businesses become a lot tougher and you have to become do a lot of due diligence around who you do do you trust are they now usually when you have some bad news that’s a budget products you’ve got to speak to my certainly mr. Kaneko showing around and that is how much do you trust to tell the person that you are talking to about your innovation second question is do you keep any part of your technology as a trade secret or do a couple of war stories you consider your options and also do not move in every situation different first one the confidentiality agreement the India ahead client quite recently who had a very innovative machines and so on got a patent and went into very very deep negotiations communications with major international Oh and they enter into ndas unfortunately they provide a lot of you know how that undermined the to this event for them to actually do prototype development in China three years down the track the student have the last I’ve got one too and try and everything with my French because we had other exchanging several drafts of an agreement we finally have to isn’t that up huge period of time to engineer the forum and work around so that is the fringe and X lively water any leapfrog by parts and so go sad story due diligence I guess it’s all about how much and and when do you actually have to stand on so give me a break you’re running out of time to into nity so might we go to the trade secrets yeah okay trade secrets I have another western to the gang how much to keep as a trade secret how much to put off the

public register through filing a patent published this book there are some industries be a huge amounts of information about the practice of a technology or actually based on trade secrets that it time unfortunately this the client found that the remaining mining company and that is bursting and then you the gas going with and they also use as part of the processing off-the-shelf chemical product which had certain features and ever just a short boat long hands of R&R company and they farmer penned in which they claim to features temperature of water and the molecular weight of this common attitude so all of a sudden user stuck in the bond of do they infringement span now so it came to the extent that they get there already been doing it for years so to the extent they want to authorize somebody else to do but don’t get so Facebook the question of campaign try and validate neither first it turns out very very few rounds how much to 10 not being published about that so you do need to make the decision early on are you going to keep the type track separate because you’re any chance at some point somebody will come with I end up price is taught early to talk early to an experimental and that also incredibly came about and just because they’re a huge compliment huge reputation don’t believe that they won’t be something they can and do just introduction work for 11 years really large firm and freedoms which is really good training law disciplined chicken journeyman I meant about extreme started my own practice sole practitioner that’s great both coughing all the time relax lifestyle but you still gotta make the type of work i was doing actually to change that much that if litigation occupation infringement dis control episode and also the commercial so attractive demons the license agreement John insurance all sorts of reasons and now watermark and they got from the balance into a boutique low patent attorney firm where your what to do pressures so tip for IP I think really the main things is to understand or what it is what is intellectual property religious known varela terror I think it’s the umbrella term under which sits various categories in special so you have to make sure to bring yourself within one of the categories so whereas intellectual property is the generic term talk you’ve got to decide which IP your action God which I want see your catheter is 24 remain categories there are other others the four main categories and patterns copyright confidential information and trademarks are you got to make sure we rein yourself within one of those factors you can decide am I going to get at making conscious decision as to whether or are you going to rely on your information we should resist a better start copyright now that is great copyright is automatically sushi therefore it’s very user-friendly I feel regime typically copyright is the limit of detection occasion illustrator and finally trademarks perhaps slightly

different it’s more about its brands but the main is what people did the public associate your name with your product so just illustrate the problems with having these various countries opinion I don’t if you saw there was an article in that scurrilous papered with Australian a few weeks ago back to God who had developed a sharp there I just got here is my apologies not apologize absent free advice and he was complaining but somebody else to cover part to take in his idea and we’re gonna duel or seven I just said they’re basically do going to do the same thing he was not surprisingly up in arms burning it spend tens hundreds hundreds of thousands of dollars developing town when each dimension ideologue articles in his device so what I be in here think packs a dinner party and it’s most likely that subject matter was just kidding something copyright yes he has copyright in the software he also spoke the right individual but somebody else can come along we’re episode 4 do it have different images do the same thing no rejection for the audience it’s a copyright some protection but doesn’t chop confidential information yes so it already published it was promoting it any we have come along and say hey that’s a good idea only that myself to you can very quickly lose your confidential please keep it type of confidentiality agreements we soon as you get out here in public domain that’s the protection evaporates or when trademark Yesi of a trademark is Charlie says for this product that’s easy enough somebody else justice this is another name some battles copyright nope confidential information no very much sir protection ends up with no protection and he spent on that what she do um you should spend a thousand dollars you should look to getting it cause he came out before that he was a good year he’s already out and that she needs a seat I started reading he was like a meeting then they come out do the app hey guys WTF you understand that’s right maybe they’re quiet about it so I think colors going to execution at the end first and having the moment associated your trademark yeah it’s your best possession whether you’re on introduction is execution speech speak market get yourself get that app recognized as the particular name given so that people look at the other some people absolutely is this one which is thank you very much God wrote it hi what I go in today s what i wanted to focus on is the register guys that happens to the trademarks the question having a blast even guys that sorry female the fact that he was out first with no protection exactly that’s it decimated misunderstanding so I guess that that is a perfect leaving I guess the point thing to get a registered life you have to seek to restroom but actually be active and file an application for a trademark or file your application to the pact I guess just to distinguish them also the trademarks really are about raining I post boom guys are there that’s been trademarked losing are plenty of other trademarks throughout the it’s about protecting the brandy so if you have a good name for product you don’t want someone else to use that name registration is best way of protecting that not necessary but it’s the best because it’s a museum it’s an easy system to use patterns on the other hand don’t protect I they protect the orientation of idols so how do you do something so if I have an

idea about watering sharks that’s how the technical side I guess that’s it is a Pat my idea to protect on your idea that technical side of them so sure is because we have do something or a website that can do something that’s how has to play you and not obvious that’s a whole talk that poor point new and obvious i’m basically that’s right is that how you do it so the technology behind it or how this machine works so how there’s another important point of the new phenytoin which is that now the patent application yeah there are some groceries too much but essentially don’t go out there and tell me what about it or you’re out there in the marketplace then expecting impact particularly in most of the rest of the world they don’t have grace period seeing half think I’d say it won’t like that’s really successful or saying it’s popping up what I do I have to do like so you’ve got to make the decision really for the very beginning do I want to go I have to I guess young to say that that it’s yeah it’s cats and costly so you could pay some money for that great idea all Bob going to go four to six thousand dollars for the first step as many more than half that and then you gotta be prepared to protective sometimes I have to let them back to the expensive education water again but i guess the thing thing is if you’ve got an app or website or whatever that’s going to be train to the gun that’s gonna be around probably not worth it but if it’s going to be something that is going to last for a long time but this is valid people misunderstand our when you product and they have another one but they’re not one if the same idea in that first product is going to continue through those version to what implementation of the ideas traditions that impact covering that is an extinct true those versions so Pat comes the nation not the actual version so if it’s something that I guess you can against most people die going to the start regarding six months ago back to my day job if you’re going to give it a read one go people want to see success I want this product to divert over good number it leads to long-term operation protecting your IP is about protecting their aspirations about protecting what I could get Intendant I’m not necessarily what can happen next two months so I stirs want to see as well versus Philippe protection very often he has something so I guess a quick example something tonight gmit yeah so that if i think is next it’s pretty soon and that’s the toasted so at least because they don’t kind of be around for five minutes they’ve made around having this for the long haul and that’s valuation so and pack things up for me for everything starter question without relaxing time to get your kind of work such a few months than going to put in yeah but who working can dispute what happens and yeah so you finally get it back the heat time breaks is let’s say roughly in laughlin from come to me and we get you know time here in traditional have a few more years right examined have a little public reports right and so typical time frames right right being for six years hang on the country that’s what about the long term it’s not about the next couple five or ten years when underlying technology is used in

maybe maybe a few versions light working product other other people then going well that’s a good idea we will replicate that how do you that’s not stop them they get a license is often license is actually thank you much row will get up early to come here listen to some lawyers so I was like boiling and I’ve had to say just over there must be bustling the questions so these cats are far away so you just say here you are just addressing the whole panel the question that I the first question is what does that keeping point when you decide let me not last I think couple of months back we were doing here folks selectivity teams over there so when you go out for validation you’re telling public this is my idea and unless you don’t do that you don’t really go that idea works what is the point the second question is what is the life of this photo six years is there a nice my unit yeah the segment’s instead Janeway’s 20 is in the vast majority side when he is from your car into a potentially powerful Facebook page will get 21 days quite over time first the first one is a tricky one because it’s a regular style became thought I thought I thought I ah got a balance that against what am I going in a valid by meeting the whole secret way out do this or am I described if you can do this would you like to you like that sort of thing so it’s a tricky one and there’s no right or wrong answer ism it’s just kind of what you’re doing you live with your consequence of those if you don’t want to supplements of giving it all away just be kept without what L face there’s this kind of it up next I don’t really get too technical that this kind of a nasally quiet so as well as the idea you’ve gotta keep it off the so so how do i do so if you don’t give too much away and it’s a end of the day black spot in a diet to treat one so you’ve got basically type of take a balanced approach but be aware do too much right two points first well it’s very important that do not disclose the nature disclosure but very important to not have orders lined up for instance have an extra very even on track the man for this product that you from the critical question of how do you make of weather one guiding factor that you might are you at an early stage in this technology is it early stage of discovery image or is it all night so a little that that would be at least one Christ you

and then you talk especially some like it’s always tricky to see like you want to someday so it’s always I just wanted to get up between startups I some baby surveyed sensor really sharing is tomorrow for the person who’s got information is disclosing your desk from 20 big persons receiving information they won’t people want to be prejudiced by signed agreement dystocia stuff so there’s two certain completing sometimes its attendants i niver client’s inventions going to big companies they thought you said we are not saying you just go away you tell us the I here so some big companies do that and venture capital it’s just my so but to try and practical way of doing it turns out pendant situation I think you can you’re growing things by trying to define the confidential which in itself is a different thing that you disclose destroys me finish of what you’re trying to do is it’s angel but this part God feel how much you’re going to say yeah you’re going to these guys look serious are the white their eyes we’re going to tell them sort of like enough that i’m going to be I know where the line is I don’t think these guys as soon as that is looking up that’s my experience it’s difficult your revenue so exactly question first question is what’s there and circulation do you both or just one or the other and the other is along lines of doing if your startup or try a estar and applying a bootstrapping its with chicken or the egg here because you will be able to pay for a patent because most of your money is going towards developing the ideal developing concept with that item you almost need revenue for you and do that so how do we get on so the first bit first first of all is probably the your course agreements really the example that I gave to stop Jackson the NDA pleasure we’ve I keep my information you keep we must have come across as a lot yesterday I guess yeah I guess the answer will explain but I guess in the day in a rather business you have expenses question is is is an essential in space of your business how important is it over the long term game too long term and if it is fine honey it’s as simple as that I decided I’ll copy this is free right perspective short shorts but that’s first on it so far but we’ll add this site and then they’re back company you can buy your own application but I strongly strongly advisors to because whenever we see we just go right tear it up right away business I’ve only ever seen one well well enough application life some of themselves who hasn’t had five years of trainers so yeah I’d be striving attend to it

disaster waiting at quick once okay we’ll protect you I had a cane people with the whole idea instead of a that’s because puts me in the cab compliant with actually threatening unable to be impartial advice I think that there is comfortable interest there you need to have your advisors who are prepared to give you the advice for what it is to tell you the rights and wrongs of itself soon impressions for the oil copy when you’re painting a code base products application website what are you actually taking there is the code or the process of transition without the letter so the codes and they were making right the methodology or the process the codes doing there any computer to be so it even to be something that’s what happened is that doesn’t your methodology typically it’s get a bunch of information or some sort of data source do some sort of crashing on that and then produce some sort of apple today methodology by which you do all that is what’s happening so we’re something like Facebook that actually aging there was a more trailer I mean the reason why asked us about application is this companies out there I’ve got to make a lot of money to the clinic there’s a crap to go to the road they had a customer base enacted this and make money so where is it better for young app developed at second Payton five years she more fit for some getting clients per zone you know get market with vehicle fortunately to be clear it again depends white ps4 doing so if it’s something that’s sufficient contending that it may be worth dependent but you know there’s a lot of things that are happening so they’re really turning on line to Facebook probably isn’t very passable certainly that brands that’s particularly those things up early I speak to you the other social networking something that will review at the time but they chose the road we’re not going to cut it down unless you’re going to be the next Facebook with an excellent or the next I think then you probably don’t need to worry about that too much but let me have this on google had a very early we’re not going to patent our staff policy and you know they still be very successful about it except that they went into mobile phone market i had to pay get billions of dollars to buy motor oil pans yes they had all these money adviser to things they’re not people move a key so I had to by the way internet market so if you’re prepared to do that later off your highly successful lie to you but maybe a better strategy for there might be Lex kids from happen Ellie or in our own technology it’s a long stem guy Clements left certificates of sculpting experience with claims right that’s why seven sitting in your name comma y SE Cupp I know you’ve got to say right with a domain name challenge you can type it bicycle doesn’t have genuine need for he’s just sitting on for describing a bad vibe from Judea okay so trade love having a sister not necessarily all help you because it can hold you close i register that natural so that’s as well if they’re actually uses our guess is it’s a difference between when you’re just sitting better you’re actually using it so we actually using OS they may be as a try as long as they’re doing Australia and then have potentially I infringement registration and I’ll get with a tripod below the required is that you in order to my tiny exploit you know people Chris trademarks all the time is not

necessarily just to see proof bag that you are legitimate business unless that’s what services that character so to not be you so there is a process that’s hidden years max I Kevin here are fun facts about agonies girls offered a job as a patent attorney which for better or worse I turned down a different path now but a question is suppose back to the criteria for patenting I suppose if the invention is using commercially off-the-shelf products and there’s no if you look at component by component from that perspective there’s actually nothing novel in the invention is is updated it’s going to come down to whether or not the combination of off-the-shelf things is so i guess if you put it in this way so there’s a reasonably famous at intermittent stream wise long story I’m now going to move yeah yes but look if you keep your soda silicones basically that’s a bunch of nuts and bolts kind of off the shelf thing it’s not all over the phone but in die if you take those off the shelf things and finally be right and it’s not an obvious thing to do and there’s some sort of managing doing that certainly but ok one last question got some lawyers here to answer questions one last one more I think about it all Romans again but I don’t agree Rama’s innocent for another bike oprah’s thank you I I think a lot of contracts contracts what’s basically is different and well how can i minimize the cost I saw them all shifting and you said off the shelf obviously customized that’s not to say good starting points each other if you don’t want to end up with some kind of american-based terms which so any agreement has to be startled this is the type of there’s never any shortcut and sadly games of charges vultures but the consequences are getting wrong petrol since some godly working legs part of the old mason mason aircraft system you know I p is worth thinking about it is worth spending money on because if you get it wrong disaster english right then you could be me too sustainable business so I guess you the lawyers would say that wouldn’t they we’ve got to a bit of money see it as a basic and have lots of times during your mission the stage and trying to get the business up around the school and that is to work on internship first where you work out the key terms how all is about to be for what time frame and what territory exclusive yonex worse royalty rate is it going to be compete right of return what was going to be an upfront fee are there going to be in order to some sleeping paid just for the same getting a license agreement so you know just be doing the deal those sort of things if you can work on a term sheet going out the key commercial terms and have other parties agreement and then bring that to your order that is going to reduce the amount of lure that

the law has to do in doing the customer greater so my strong recommendation is term sheet first and get agreement with the other party polymers kingsford when you are well ahead of you I guess a question that I have across elasaur projects but it wasn’t asked so i might ask it is about corporation we start up and getting the IP interview I software that’s my question from the penalty I our Liberty again it depends generally speaking affected situations where a new desk we want to have a quality instruction it’s best to have a proprietary company there’s number reasons for that limited liability getting investors in return to later stage having known structure tengo boy trusts by all means have shareholdings in your progression to company will and I trust that’s fine where the clean proprietary limited nature’s operating if you want to get a little bit fancier you won’t have two entities one morning I be one algorithm and that can have beneficial who was the belly up and goes under keep-keep over the I and that’s that sometimes my recommendation okay when I asked these three a few weeks ago to come along to an IV an attorney copyright trademark chapter startups they immediately reply within five minutes each other yes of course I’ll do that guy thing magazine for about a yr but love you coming towards them so one of my desires in my position now is to get startups to meet corporates and corporates to start up so this is certainly would you share by Jessica’s death in morning star so thank you very much 3d for coming along thanks you guys for coming I’ll get the big round before we’ve got the room till nine if you’re on a folded share can you put it back and show you guys you