Sadhguru at NALSAR – Youth and Truth [Full Talk]

Sadhguru: Namaskaram! And… (Laughs) this Youth and Truth how it came about is, in the last three decades that I’ve been active with people, this has been a constant refrain that many, many people, thousands of them have said the same thing… (Talks Aside) …they’ve been asking the same question They keep telling me, “Sadhguru, twenty-five years ago, where were you? When I was twenty why didn’t you come? You come when I am sixty, if you had come when I was twenty, I would have changed my life but now you’ve come too late.” So I decided we’ll step out and meet all those people who are below twenty-five years of age (Applause) and that’s why we are here Because what… what we are referring to as life… (Talks Aside) …what we are referring to as life is essentially a certain combination of time and energy We can make many things out of it, but essentially this life is a certain amount of time and certain amount of energy Time is rolling away for all of us at the same time It’s rolling away at the same pace If you sit it goes, if you stand it goes, if you work it goes, if you just sleep it goes, awake or asleep time is rolling away It’s the energy that we can manage When you’re youthful or when you’re in that segment of life which is referred to as youth, this is the time when your energies are at their peak and they are at their highest Most youth do not understand this that this level of energy, the intensity of energy is with you only in this stage of life, it’s not going to last for a long time Most youth will not understand this right now But you must look at the older people and see, they were also youth and it’s happened to them and it’s going to happen to you So when your energies are at its peak, if only if you can bring a little more clarity and balance into your life, this energy could become a phenomenal force both for yourself and for the society and the country and the world that we live in So it’s in this context that this Youth and Truth has been launched We hope that we will be able to bring some sense of clarity and balance into your life After this is over – this is going on for about three to four months – after this is over, we will also offer tools for transformation which will be available for all of you free of cost, it doesn’t cost anything – certain people are sponsoring these things So it is going to go out on the platforms that we have, the online platforms – simple things that you can do with your body and your mind so that your body and your mind never works against you When I say your body and your mind never works against you, people are calling it by many names – people call it stress, anxiety, misery, madness, whatever you want to call it All these things are essentially this, that your intelligence has somehow turned against you, that’s all there is Yes? If your intelligence turns against you, there is no force in the universe which can save you So it’s very, very important at this stage in your life you make your body and your mind in such a way, your intelligence and your energy never works against you There are enough people in the world to work against you Leave it to them, you don’t have to work against yourself Once… See right now the situation is this, most people don’t need any enemies, they are doing fine by themselves (Laughter) I don’t want you to be one of them Please I am in the ____ (Sounds Like – dock/dark?) today, so (Laughs) Time 04:31 Questioner 1: Sadhguru, it’s nice to have you here I hope we have an interesting and insightful discussion with you And thanks for the audience for coming in such large numbers (Applause) So as moderators we’ve prepared about twelve questions of which one is a social media question A significant portion of these questions are contemporary issues debated across the nation and especially in… at Nalsar, so we’ve made sure that we ask them

The… the breakup would be, about one hour would be the moderator discussion and forty minutes of… forty minutes we’ll leave it to the audience to ask questions One thing to point out here is that when we… all three of the moderators personally met Sadhguru about half-an-hour ago, he told us to be completely fearless in the kind of questions we can ask him with absolutely no restrictions So thanks for that, sir, and we’ll make sure we do that (Applause) Sadhguru: Because a question can never be wrong, only an answer can be wrong (Laughter) So only I have a problem, you don’t have, so (Laughter)… Questioner 1: So, some of these questions are contextual so we’ll make sure that we explain the context so even the audience understands where this discussion is going and then we’ll proceed with the question Fine, so I think we’ll start with the first question Questioner 2: So Sadhguru, shall we begin? Sadhguru: Yes, sir (Cheering)! Questioner 2: So, I thought a good way to begin the conversation would be to pick up a question on first impressions… Sadhguru: How did you foresee I will come in red today (Few laugh)? Questioner 2: Just a coincidence (Sadhguru Laughs), I didn’t foresee it So, I thought a good way to begin the conversation would be to pick up a question on first impressions So I mean both you and I would have heard the popular phrases, “little knowledge is dangerous knowledge” and “don’t judge the book by its cover” So how do you weigh these expressions when we think of the concept of first impressions? As… as I understand it, first impressions are mental images that we create when see someone or hear someone and the first interaction that we have with that person So… and it’s also possible that our first impressions are wrong So, are first impressions something which confuse your mind or is it something which gives you initial clarity? So… and why is it that… I mean how do we control our mind from racing to these conclusions? Sadhguru: Hey, that’s a long question (Laughter) (Laughs) Okay You have heard of the term “love at first sight”? Questioner 2: Of course Participants: Whoa! Sadhguru: So these things us… this is a English expression, these things used to happen when the genders had not met, they were secluded largely So the first time a young girl with her parents in a carriage, she was going and you looked at her, she looked at you like this (Gestures) (Laughter/Applause), it’s been a long time since you saw a girl’s face, instantly (Gestures) (Laughter/Applause), okay? But that doesn’t happen anymore because they are always around you You take your time, which is a good thing (Laughs) So, I don’t think you should make any impression of anything or anybody just by simply looking at it once – unless you have become such a mystic that if you see you just know, (Laughs) okay? Why I am saying this is, see, I spent a whole lot of my time and life just paying attention to things Because when I was very young I realized, when I was just four, four-and-a-half years of age I realized I don’t know anything! Because I don’t know anything, I started paying attention to everything, smallest things If I find a pebble, I will be looking at it for hours If I find a leaf, I will be looking at it for many hours If I sit on my bed in the darkness, I am just staring at the darkness for the whole night My dear father being a physician, he started thinking I need psychiatric evaluation (Laughs) because this boy is simply staring at something for hours on end without blinking It looks like he’s lost his mind! My problem is, I look at this and I don’t know what this is, so I am not able to shift my eyes to that So I just stay with this This went on like this and in this condition they sent me to school My mother said you must pay attention to the teacher (Laughter) I went and paid attention to the teacher (Laughter), the kind of attention that they would have never received in their life (Laughter) About nine years ago, this school where I studied almost forty, forty-five years ago… forty-five years ago, they invited me for their one-hundred-and-twenty-fifth anniversary The trustees came to invite me I said, “See, why me?” Because I was not just a not good student, I was not even a student (Few laugh)

I only went to school when it was a must Most of the time nobody noticed me and I just vanished somewhere So I said “Why me? I am not a good example for your students.” They said, “Our school has produced union ministers, our school has produced cricketing stars, film stars, you are the only mystic, you must come (Laughter)!” I said “Okay” and I went there I stood up to speak in the quadrangle I just looked around, the same oppressive buildings, you have a fantastic, you know, a campus (Applause) It’s a fortune because it’s not just about education, it’s about… living in a certain atmosphere is a very important thing for learning So, these are city schools which are like that Then I looked at this classroom and I suddenly remembered, I was just twelve years of age, one afternoon the teacher is trying to get some response from me Those days I am made like this, for many days I won’t utter a single word When you don’t know anything, what to say? I am still trying to drink up the world, nothing to say Time 11:17 So, this man is asking question I am just looking at him After sometime I don’t even hear what he is saying If I look at him, I know his past, present and future I can tell him everything about his life but I don’t know what the hell he is talking Because I never listen to anybody, I just look at them So, if you are able to look at people like that, then it’s okay Otherwise definitely looking at the appearance of a person if you’re making judgment, or appearance of a situation if you are making a judgment… especially you are going to be lawyers, by looking at what people are saying, if you make a judgment, they will be telling all kinds of stories to you (Laughs) So you never make any impression You need to delve into certain things So whether it’s individual people or situations, aspects of life or decisions we need to make, it’s best that we get the maximum input out of whatever we are looking at because otherwise we will go on regretting what we have done People who spend time in regret, they won’t do much in life because it consumes so much energy Time 12:32 Questioner 2: A related question – there are… sometimes we have these certain instincts in us that direct us to do certain things popularly known as gut feelings Sadhguru: Gut Questioner 2: So do you think… do you think the youth must act on these gut feelings or should we reject it, what is your take on gut feelings and instincts? Sadhguru: There is something called as gut feeling and there is also something called as being shit scared, you know (Laughter)? So when people don’t know which way to go, some things move in their gut (Laughter) Don’t understand always that as some kind of an intuition or some kind of an insight into life Most people feel their guts only when… you say “he has guts” means what? Guts didn’t move (Laughter) So, fear is considered gut feeling by a whole lot of people, don’t go by that But there is a certain… in the yogic culture – today modern science is also recognizing this, in the yogic culture we identify a certain dimension of intelligence in the stomach A certain dimension of intelligence means, if we have to… this is what I am going to say is very simplistic, if you find loopholes you ask question otherwise I will pass, okay (Laughs)? If you ask questions I will cover those loopholes but because I am saying it in such a brief manner, there will be loopholes See, you eat piece of bread, within a few hours it gets transformed into a human being, isn’t it so? Is it a tremendous amount of intelligence? Hello? If I can take a piece of bread in my hand and make this into a human being, who would you think I am? Hello? Participants: Creator Sadhguru: Creator himself, isn’t it? Must be god If I can take a piece of bread and make it into a human being, this is it! This, you’re doing in your stomach Obviously there is a certain dimension of intelligence It is not in the form of thought but it’s a different dim… it’s not intellect, but it’s an intelligence Is there a way to access that intelligence? Yes Even if a drop of that intelligence enters your life, you will do things magically, not miserably If you do things only with your logic, everything becomes quite miserable because you’ll have

to go through logical steps for everything You will not know anything just by looking at it So it is important to develop that dimension of intelligence but as I said, whenever there is confusion and fear, people will feel a pit in the stomach – that should not be understood as the gut… intelligence of the gut Time 15:26 Questioner 2: So Sadhguru, the next two, three questions… the next two, three questions revolve around this con… Sadhguru: See as a lawyer you shouldn’t warn me what is the next question, you must shoot Questioner 2: So the broad theme of the next two, three questions revolves around the concept of pate… of nationalism, of allegiance to the country So my question basically concerns your response to Gautam Gambhir’s question, wherein Gautam Gambhir was of the opinion that people should be compelled to stand up for the national anthem and he was surprised as to how this was even a topic of debate As I understand you agreed with him, with the only qualify being that if somebody is disabled, he should not be forced And… Sadhguru: I am… I am not looking at it… please complete the question I am not looking at it so simplistic but… Questioner 2: So Sadhguru, my question is that should we not allow people to find out what their own interpretations of loyalty and allegiance are I mean we walk unaffected when women are raped (Applause)… we walk unaffected when women are raped, we stop dalits from entering public facilities There are so many injustices that we do… Sadhguru: So we can do one more? Questioner 2: No, I mean just because we go to the cinema and before Gangs of Wasseypur we stand up for the national anthem, how does that become the criteria for having allegiance to the nation or being a patriot to the nation (Applause)? Time 16:55 Sadhguru: Looks like it’s a very popular question (Laughs) See, let’s look at it this way – a nation, when we say a nation, all nations on the planet are not in the same state of development, evolution and social and other realities are not in the same state Looking at India as a nation, we are trying to make this a nation, still there is no real nation because still a whole lot of people are identified with their caste, creed, you know many, many things – with their community – many, many things because we are yet to make a nation out of it We’ve not… We should have done it early on after 1947 but we did not do that work properly As you said, discrimination is there, based on your caste That means we’ve not made a nation yet You are separate nation, I am separate nation, isn’t it? Just because of your birth So if you want to make this a nation, there are certain tools, certain symbols, certain acts and anthem is one of them that we are trying to make a nation out of this And we are a nation where five-hundred million people have not eaten properly Largest number of malnourished people on the planet, unfortunately in our country Nearly sixty percent of rural population in India, their skeletal system has not grown to full size They are all like this (Gestures) compressed Dissipated life, underdeveloped life we are generating But we have debates about whether we should stand up or sit down when the anthem happens, all right? Simply because we’ve lost our humanity I’ll come to this Time 19:00 And we have issues with our sovereignty Somebody is always trying to gobble part of what you call as India That itself is not settled We don’t know where our borders are Yes (Applause)? And you and me are sitting here today comfortably, talking about many things simply because there are men who are standing there, who are willing to die for this nation (Applause) (Laughs) You don’t like it, it’s fine There are men and women who are willing to die for this nation, every day they are dying You may be seeing it as statistic, but unfortunately they have wives, they have children, they have families A man who stands there willing to stake his life, willing to make his wife into a widow, willing to make his children into orphans, at least please tell him “We don’t care

a damn for this nation You also come back, what are you guarding against?” Why should a man stand there guarding this nation when we are not willing to stand up for a simple symbol of the nationhood, it is fifty-two seconds, it’s a shame (Applause) Now, the kind of… the kind of arguments people are creating is “What if somebody is handicapped?” Arey! Don’t we have that much sense if somebody is handicapped we will not ask him to stand up? What nonsense is this, he can sit like this (Gestures) He can sit like this showing some expression for the nation Nation has to evolve If this nation in the next twenty-five years comes to a place where all citizens in this country are well nourished, we can bring down our nationalism and patriotism by twenty-five percent If in another fifteen, twenty years or twenty-five years, if everybody is well-employed, well-to-do, nation is bursting with prosperity, then you can bring it down to fifty percent Someday if you come to such a egalitarian situation where there is no caste, no creed, no discrimination, gender, caste, creed doesn’t matter, we are all just boom, if you come to that stage, we can talk about dissolving the nation and making nation into a global possibility But without understanding the realities when your sovereignty is not fixed, when you don’t know where the hell your border is of this nation and half the people have not eaten properly, you are talking about in one hand pop-corn, one hand coco-cola and you can’t stand up No, this is not okay This is not okay This is not a question of nationalism, this is a question of your humanity (Applause) Time 21:57 Questioner 2: So Sadhguru, if I could just follow up on that… on that answer you made, so as I understand you said that there are individuals like soldiers who show their allegiance to the nation by fighting for the borders… fighting in the borders We are not loyal because we don’t stand up… Sadhguru: Nobody talked about loyalty, please No, no, no, we need to understand this There is… Nation is not a God-given entity It is an agreement among us, what a nation is Yes? Nation is not some God-given thing It’s we who made the nation There is an agreement what we will respect, what we will not respect, what we value and what we do not value in this country So this is an agreement that we have made So this is not a question of your loyalty Maybe you are doing some great work but you don’t want to stand up but I am telling you this is not about you who is well-to-to, this is about those people who are still not fed properly, this is about those people who are dying on the borders, this is about those people who are being rubbed down to the ground on a daily basis Questioner 2: So Sadhguru, I completely understand… Sadhguru: How will sitting help? Please tell me first No, no, no, how does sitting help? If one person stands up and speaks, it’ll be nice If you can stand up for this at least? Questioner 2: So could I complete the logical flow on the question I ask him, and then we’ll put it to somebody there? Is that fine? Or like do you want to ask right now itself? Sadhguru: Please take the microphone and speak, it’s fine Questioner 2: Fine, so… I mean the reasoning which I understood is there are individuals who are sacrificing for the nation… Sadhguru: No, no, there is a condition Questioner 2: There are individuals who subscribe to the idea of a nation and the implication is that individuals who do not stand up for the national anthem, do not subscribe to the idea of the nation… Sadhguru: No, not true I am not saying that This is a very simplistic logic I am not saying that I am saying nation is at a certain status of evolution, do you understand? In this nation, we need an emotion to move this nation to a better status For this emotion everybody needs to participate It’s like saying, tomorrow you want to build a family, you go and tell your wife, “See, I am very agnostic I will give you what you want but I will not invest my emotion into this family.” You think you will have a family? You think you will have one (Applause)? So, standing up for the na… national anthem and a few other symbols of that is just that you are creating an emotion because nation is only in the minds and hearts of people It doesn’t exist anywhere else There is no nation in the world Nation exists only in our minds and our hearts If it doesn’t exist in your heart, how will it exist? It will not, it will cease to exist Time 24:46 Questioner 2: So the last time we had… I mean the last time in history we had forced acts of symbolism that resulted in Nazi Germany… Sadhguru: I got you (Cheering) (Laughs) All right I ____(Unclear) him All right

See, the… this is why… this is why… the problem is you have read European history, you have no idea of Indian history (Applause) (Cheering) Let’s come to this, Nazi… Nazi Germany was organized against somebody within that country Right now, you standing up for the national anthem is not a… organized against anybody It is not organized against anybody (Applause) This must be understood First of all, let us be very clear, without investing our thought and emotion, there is no nation! Right now in this country a whole lot of people, if you go into rural India, a whole lot of people don’t know what is India They know only their caste, they know only their community, their full allegiance is right there You have to build this nation in people’s minds and hearts You don’t build a nation just around – if you build a road and a bridge and something, nation will not happen You have to build a nation in people’s minds and hearts, this is a simple thing Why should I stand up in a cinema theatre – that’s a question No, not necessary in the cinema theatre but how many of you by yourself will go and attend a Republic Day Parade or go for flag hoisting on an Independence Day and stand up and sing the national anthem (Applause)? You don’t! So, because the only damn place that you go to is a cinema theatre, we are asking you to do it there (Cheering) (Applause)! Time 26:42 Questioner 2: Fine, So… Sir, so we’ll proceed from that discussion as to I mean… as to my ideas of nation and whether I should be standing up and whether… how that subscribes to ____(Unclear)… Sadhguru: Okay, how else will you express your love for the nation? Questioner 2: If I could just make another point there Is that… I mean, two points here, first, take the example of say I mean the victims of the 1984 riots or take the example of the Bhopal Gas victims, right? These people have been failed by the nation These people have been discriminated upon Participant: They’ve been failed by the government not the nation Questioner 2: So I mean after 1984 how many governments did we have? We had multiple governments (Applause) (Cheering)? Sadhguru: No, no… Questioner 2: So tell me one government after 1984 if… Sadhguru: See, one second, hello! It’s not just in 1984 or post ’94 we have failed, we have continuously failed a whole lot of people for seventy years (Applause) When… When fifty percent of the country’s population is still not nourished properly, we have obviously failed them This is why I am saying this is a question of humanity (Applause), this is not a question of nationality The only way the largest… (Talks aside) The largest number of people, the maximum number of humanity that you can address right now in the current reality of the world is called a nation If you want to address people in smaller communities, you must break it into smaller groups or when… when the populations or the nations become mature enough, like it’s happened in Europe, they’ve made a union The same people fought each other in the World War II but within sixty years’ time, they’ve formed an union (Applause) – there is a certain maturity there So here they don’t have to promote too much nationalism because there is a maturity of accepting everybody and opening up the borders and living as one larger union So if such a thing happens to us that someday we become an Asian union, which we should aim towards on someday, then you can lower your nationalism Right now you don’t have a thing, you’ve not eaten properly, you talking about other kinds of ideas and comparing yourself (Sounds like – with?) Nazi Germany which was in a completely different state I am saying you have ideals without reality check about your understanding of where we are, where this country is right now (Applause) Time 29:10 Questioner 2: Okay sir Then sir I think this is something… I completely get your points but I think this is something we’ll disagree or I think if somebody has an issue… Sadhguru: No, you should not disagree, you should ask more questions Time 29:25 Questioner 2: Fine So, (Cheering) (Applause) Since… I thought we had limited time… Sadhguru: See, it is like this… it is like this, right now you are in that state of mind that “I am fixed on this, unless you say what I want, I will not agree with you” (Laughter/Applause) This is not a debate (Cheering), you asked a question, I have said what I have said You ask more questions Questioner: So, my primary concern was that there was limited time but if you’re okay with it, so… Sadhguru: No, don’t worry about that, I’m willing to spend the day with you (Applause) Because…

Because, because you have raised an issue… you raised an issue, where certain people, just for the sake of popularism, they’re talking some nonsense without keeping the nation’s interest in their… in their thinking Now… It’s okay, don’t shout, if you want to say something take the microphone and speak, anonymously anybody can say anything If you want to say something, stand up and speak it’s perfectly fine with me, all right? Just doing boo boo, boo boo is not going to help (Laughter) Because… Because this is a nation… As I said, I’m reminding you it not… you don’t seem to have the pain in your heart, because I have traveled through villages and rural landscape of this nation so much, I have seen people in such horrible conditions continuously, even today Just here, in this state just travel around – see it’s one of the well-to-do states in the world… in the country – go to the remote parts of this state and see how people are Most of them have not eaten properly in their entire life, okay? When this is the condition, we have (are?) debating about nuances Fifty-two seconds if I stand, my legs will melt down? No I’m saying this – can you create a nation without investing your emotion into the nation making, can you? Time 31:22 Questioner: Sir, could investing emotion also be by expressing healthy skepticism? Is healthy skepticism also not a factor that is taken into account while building a nation? Sadhguru: See, you can stand up and be a skeptic Be a stand-up skeptic, why are you a sit-down skeptic? Even comedians are standing up these days (Applause) Questioner: But it’s…it’s how I express myself to be a skeptic Sadhguru: Okay, how will you express, sir? Questioner: I mean… Sadhguru: See, how will you find… okay, do one thing let us not sing the national anthem, let’s not stand for it, find some way where all Indians can express one way, one minute of respect for this nation Please find some way and tell me Questioner: Sir, I completely agree with you and that’s where I come from, like I could be contributing to the nation not in terms of one minute but in terms of hours, I could be protecting tribal rights, I could be going to courts and fighting for Dalits, I could be doing investigative journalism (Applause) Sadhguru: Yes, sir! Questioner: So… Sadhguru: No, no, you did not… you did not listen to me, please listen to me What I’m saying is find one simple process, one simple process that all of us can use to express our love for this country – find that Then we will stop the national anthem and do that one – all right? Questioner: But sir, why is it that we need a common idea of expressing love, I mean, if I have three children (Applause), all three of them will express love to me… will express love to me in a different manner Sadhguru: See, this is… you need to understand this, your love for your country is not your personal romance, how you express your love… (Applause) how you express your love to your friend or your partner is your business, we will not ask you, but when it comes to the nation we are trying to put complex culture into one identity of some sort (Participant speaking Inaudible) Why don’t you take a microphone and speak, don’t sit down and speak, stand up, you got legs, right? Questioner: So, could somebody give the mic to (Sounds like – Rohan Pratap ji?) (Sadhguru laughs) Sadhguru: You know their questions, please tell me Questioner: Fine so… (Laughter/Applause) so, before the mic comes to him because I think it will take some time… Sadhguru: No, I would like you to stand up Questioner 2: Yeah, yeah, so our question was simple… Sadhguru: Can I sing the national anthem now that you’re standing? (Laughter) Questioner 2: Sorry? Sadhguru: Can I sing the national anthem that you’re standing right now? Time 33:52 Questioner 2: I think I can express my nationalism the way I choose to express it because your country is extremely diverse Sadhguru: I do not question that, I am not even questioning that but I am saying this is a country of 1.3 billion people, each one of us our own language, our own culture, our own castes and creeds, and eating, dressing, everything is different When it’s like this, we need some common point which we all plug into and say this is our thing So this is the flag, I know a flag is just a bloody cloth, we know that but it’s we, by investing our emotion who make it sacred, isn’t it? Questioner: So to add on to Rohan’s question, I mean if the requirement… Questioner 2: The question is do we not have faith in our … (Talks aside) Questioner 2: The question is – do we not have faith in our diversity? We are a country whose population is more than the population of Africa combined, or the Americas combined A country which has a population more in diversity than Europe and Australia combined… Sadhguru: You must shorten the question, I know these statistics Questioner 2: If we have such a diverse population, where people can choose to express themselves in different methods, to show their nationalism, to show their patriotism, that they’re working on a daily basis, to… for the betterment of the country, who is this particular way

that you’re referring to who can all of a sudden decide the standard of what amounts to nationalistic expression and other expressions which are not ___(Unclear) (Applause)… Sadhguru: No, no, let’s… there are… I know this is certain kind of motivation which is there, it’s fine, but this “suddenly” is not a… is a completely wrong word In 1947, when the flag went up, the entire nation stood up Entire nation stood up (Applause) because… because at that time we knew what it meant to be oppressed by somebody else, now we have forgotten That’s all that’s happened to us Now you do not understand, this country has a thousand years of history of invasions, and invasions and in every possible way we’ve been rubbished – do you understand? And we have forgotten this that just sixty – seventy years ago we had famines, where not… people did not die in hundreds or thousands, they died in millions We’ve forgotten that, we think… We… We’re talking a language of America You must understand, in United States of America, in every sports event, major Super Bowl (Referring to football league) is happening – if the national anthem goes, everybody stands up, not just stand up, with their hand on their heart So, that nation is doing what it is doing, it is also a complete conundrum of cultures from variety, people have all come from outside in this generation, they’re not even born there but they all stand up with such pride Because of that pride, that nation is the most powerful nation in the world If you don’t have pride – what do you do? Time 36:43 Questioner: So I apologize to the people in the audience, we will have forty minutes (Talks aside)… we will have forty minutes in the audience discussion because the co-moderators also have important questions to ask, I can’t take up their time (Talks aside) Constitution under Article 19 (1)(a) gives me the freedom of expression (Applause), and there are (Sounds like – explicit?) Supreme Court decisions which say that I have the right to silence, to peaceful silence So, if I am just sitting up and I have the right to be silent, that is constitutionally protected So, constitution does not say this, the only law we have is the… Sadhguru: Please sit down Hello Questioner: …the only law we have is… I mean there is a separate law for that Sadhguru: See, whoever… whoever, please, whatever kind of question you want to ask, take the microphone and ask the question, don’t just stand up and do whatever – okay please Time 37:41 Questioner: So, sir if it’s fine to you and if it’s fine to everybody, can we please do it in (Talking over each other) moderate discussion? I mean if you’re fine with that because we have a lot of important questions, nuanced questions to ask Sadhguru: Yes Questioner: So, I’m sorry I’ll take the autocratic decision to move on and if you guys can please ask that in the audience questions There’s forty minutes reserved for that Sadhguru: That’s a very good thing, that’s a very good thing they’re listening to your autocratic decision, they’re not saying “we’ll express in our own way” (Applause) Questioner: Sir, because we already have two opinions being discussed… (Sadhguru talks over him) Sadhguru: No, that is fine All I am saying is, if everybody does things in their own way, there is going to be chaos – that’s all it is (Applause) Time 38:38 Questioner: So, we’ll (Laughs)… we’ll discuss this in the audience questions So, the next question, sir, which… Sadhguru, which I have concerns the inter-linkages between art and war This is again… this comes back… Sadhguru: What is this, art…? Questioner: …between art and war, between art and nationalism So, just to set the context – in Bombay there were certain political entities which threatened that a particular film would not be released because it involved the Pakistani actor, who by the way was working there… I mean was working in India legally on a government sanctioned permit It was argued that releasing such a film would be disrespectful to Indians and to the Indian army, and there have also been similar instances of other Pakistani actors and musicians also being prevented from working in India Now, my question to you, Sadhguru is… is that, what’s your stand on this – do you see this as extra constitutional bullying or extra constitutional censorship because there is no law which says I cannot hire a Pakistani actor, or do you see this as a justified patriotic concern? Sadhguru: See, anything that is not in the framework of law, nobody has any business to force it The law enforcement should be able to handle it but unfortunately that’s not the reality in the country right now Whether it’s about a Pakistani artist or an Indian artist, it is not only about Pakistan, you saw this ‘Padmavat’ one big issue happening, somebody won’t let you release,

in Tamil Nadu it’s happened many times because somebody doesn’t like it I’m saying if you don’t like a bloody movie don’t watch it, that’s about it So, about India-Pakistan, there is… unfortunately there is lot of continuous conflict happening If it is not… If it is not necessary for us we must make a law like that till these things are settled, as they’re saying right now “till it’s settled we won’t talk”, similarly till it’s settled we won’t act, we won’t sing, we won’t do, but outside the framework of law nobody has any business to enforce anything Time 40:37 Unfortunately the way to become a leader in this country has been till now, you don’t have to create anything, you don’t have to build anything, you gather a hundred people and block the highway for three days; make everybody’s life miserable – you may get elected So those of you who are shouting you must understand this is not the way because this is how, this is the person that he’s talking about right now – people who will break the framework and do their own thing, just to have their way because they believe something You can believe whatever you want (Applause)… you can believe whatever you want, I can believe whatever I want but we have come to an agreement that we will work within the framework of the constitution, and that is our book right now Other books that you read, a religious kind, nationalistic kind, whatever other kind you read, it’s your personal choice you can read whatever you want but the nation will run by this book – if you find a flaw in this book, we have the freedom to amend the book That’s how we must go First and foremost thing about building a prosperous nation is we must be a law abiding nation If that doesn’t happen, never well-being will happen to the people Those who have the muscle will rule the nation Questioner: So, as I understood from your answer that in case that does not exist… Sadhguru: Why do you interpret my answer? I think they understand (Applause) Questioner: No, I mean… so that I mean… I mean (Sadhguru laughs)… Sadhguru, you’re… you’re, I mean you gave… I mean you look into all aspects of the answer and you give a complete answer, sometimes maybe it’s difficult for us to understand maybe what exactly you’re saying, so something as a moderator, it’s my duty to clarify the answer Sadhguru: Okay sir Time 42:42 Questioner: So, my… as I understand from your answer, Sadhguru, is that what you’re saying is that if there does not exist any law which prohibits Pakistani actors from not being employed in Indian cinema… Sadhguru: It’s not just about that, even where there were no Pakistani actors, many movies were not allowed to be released There was violence on the streets If we don’t learn to put this down at the very first step, that somebody thinks they have a right to burn the buses When the buses were burning I called somebody who’s a very responsible person in this country and asked “What the hell is happening in this country?” For a cinema you’re burning twenty – thirty buses in some town Then they said “Sadhguru, what to do Sadhguru? These are Rajputs.” All those women are dressed up like brides and waiting, over hundred of them and they want to burn themselves Suppose tomorrow even if ten of them burn themselves it’ll become a international situation that we cannot handle, let some buses burn Sadhguru.” I said “This is some strange kind of wisdom.” (Laughs) But unfortunately that is where we are, and even your national… national anthem question is related to this, unfortunately that is where the country is Do not think just by reading law we are some law-abiding fantastic nation, people still do things by themselves – all this… the mob justice is still going on in this country This is not in one place, in every village there is mob justice, only a few things have been reported If you know Indian villages, you know in the Indian village, things are settled by the mob Maybe sometimes directed by the Panchayat or something, nobody goes to the police because it’ll take a long time Court takes twenty-five years, maybe that’ll be good for your living and your business, but it is not good for the people – I lose something today, if I’m going… if my problem is going to be settled in twenty-five years’ time, it means nothing to me I will gather five people and settle… try to get my own justice This is the nation we’re living in Do not be in some utopia This is the country we are living in, where still for a whole lot of people there is no nourishment, there is no law, there is no any kind of enforcement, they’re doing their own thing You need to create a nation out of this Questioner: So, we’ll move onto the next question… Sadhguru: Yes, sir Time 44:53 Questioner: …is that – I mean this is again on the theme of nationalism – is that there have been instances of governments spending huge amounts of money on building statues

of national icon and heroes To set the context, I’m from Bombay and a huge number of people from Mumbai, including me, see Chatrapathi Shivaji Maharaj as an eminent warrior and icon That being said, the government of Maharashtra recently allocated rupees 3,600 crores for building a Shivaji statue Sadhguru, my question is that, respecting national heroes and taking pride in history is important but should it come at the cost of spending rupees 3,600 crores, especially when you have important social economic issues still pending? I mean, in Bombay there have been bridges which have… I mean, there in Bombay, which have fallen down There are families… there are entire families who have been killed, there are public schools which have only received twenty-five percent… Sadhguru: I know all the… all the many things that we need to do in this country, there’s no… not one thing or two things There are so many things we need to do in this… at this time, is it necessary to build a statue? Well, it is not my personal choice to build a big statue but at the same time – when I inquired about this because it kind of bothered me also when I look at the number of how much it costs, then I was told this is going to be a technology center of an experience of India, and Indian culture, and variety of things, they want to make it a tourist attraction of a… the tourist attraction in the country, Mumbai being the commercial capital So, they have some vision, I don’t know how it will turn out, pan out because it’s the government executing the vision but they have a vision and hopefully it will turn out in such a way that it’ll be a big tourism draw for Mumbai Right now they feel Mumbai has commercial travelers but no tourists coming to India… Tourists coming to India avoid Mumbai for variety of reasons They want to change that with this one project Hopefully they do that and Chatrapatha… Chatrapathi Shivaji is an inspiration for all the Maratis for everything, so they want to build his statue, I don’t know how tall it is – how tall it is? So, I don’t think the main budget is for the statue, it is for the complex that they’re building They’re saying it’s going to be a tourist draw If it so… Time 47:20 Questioner: Fine, so… I understand that, we don’t have clarity as to the facts as to… I mean whether they will be able to recoup the investment or not, but there were some people who just… I mean, just to let you know and then you could also give your view on this – there were some people who did statistical studies on this They said that Taj Mahal which is the most popular monument in India, has twenty-five crores coming from it annually – twenty-five – thirty And this is 3,600 crores, which means that even if you don’t include the cost of maintenance, this will take one-fifty (one-hundred-and-fifty) years just to recover (Applause) Sadhguru: See, that is… that is very simplistic economics, I don’t know why… for anything illogical, a few people are always clapping motivated in a certain way (Applause) Please, this is very illogical economics This is not how that project is being planned because from what little I know – I’m not an expert on this, let me admit that I don’t know much about it but it’s not only about the statue The statue is probably to pacify a certain groups of people so that they support that and they don’t, you know, start a protest against this tourism project The project like this will not be like… See, Taj Mahal is one ticket entry, this is not going to be like that This is going to be many things about Indian culture and this is not going to raise… it is not like twenty-five rupee ticket, you pay and you enter and go And anyway, these kind of projects, it is going to be economically viable because we’ve been working on the river projects with Maharashtra’s Finance Minister – they are very, very, you know, astute about money So I’m sure they’ll work out economic module, I have no doubt about that but beyond that, a tourism project, something that you’re trying to draw people into the town means they will stay in the hotels, they will eat, they will do many things, they will spend money in the town, so there is… economics is in many places So, out of… just to see Taj Mahal people to come to India, do you think just with a fifty rupee ticket they enter, for foreigners I think it’s hundred rupees or something, they enter and they go away? No, they will eat, they will stay in a hotel, they will buy things, Indian arts, crafts, everything sells So, it is very simplistic to look at this… this is gathering twenty-five crores, this will take hundred-and-fifty years – no, that’s not the way to look at it (Applause) Questioner: Fine, so we’ll move onto the next question, but – I’m sorry I’m indulging myself here – even if it is not 3,600 crores, even if you are going to recover it in the future, when you have children who are… I mean, when you have children, who are dying of malnutrition, when you have schools which

have only twenty-five percent public funding, when the rest of the seventy-five percent hasn’t come, when you have this amount which is seven times the amount which Maharashtra… Sadhguru: See, I’ll tell you This 3,600 crores is less than three months of alcohol consumption in Mumbai city (Applause) Why don’t we abstain for three months and build the damn thing, hmm, whatever it is? (Applause) Time 50:29 Questioner 3: Okay Sadhguru, we’ll now move onto the next question This is more related to spirituality, so this won’t have that much controversy I guess Sadhguru: Hey, this is even more controversial (Laughter) Questioner 3: Okay I’ll try to bring in the controversy here It is a common notion among people that spirituality is a rich person’s area So even if you look at the people who have gathered around here, we’re all pretty much well off, and once we have earned for ourselves, we then find time to do yoga, or meditation, or look into our inner being But as we discussed all through… throughout the whole discussion till now – there are… yes, you yourself have said that five-hundred million people are still malnourished and there are so many people in this country who are daily-wage workers who… who at that point of time, spirituality and learning of their inner being would not there…would not be the most important thing for them Their most important thing would be feeding themselves and their children for the next meal Sadhguru: Really you think so? You do one thing You go to any so called spiritual event in the country, will you see rural masses there or people like you in denims? (Applause) Who will you see, hmm? Questioner 3: Yeah, yeah… Sadhguru: So, don’t make conclusions which are not even true Are we trying to prove something or are we trying to look at truth? The truth of this nation is, we have kept our populations in extreme abject poverty Nourishment is missing, leave anything else, nourishment is missing In spite of that… I must tell you this, people ask me these questions wherever I go in the world, “Sadhguru, so many spiritual teachers and masters, so many great beings have come in India but why are we so poor? Why is India so poor? Where is the spirituality?” Well, you know this Two-hundred-and-fifty years ago we were the richest nation on the planet Everybody wanted to come to India Why do you think a Vasco da Gama or that Columbus who made that mistake, all these people set off in the oceans that they did not know and over hundred expedition… expeditions in the ocean drowned, nobody ever wrote about them, all right – because nobody writes about people who drown in the oceans So, why was everybody in Europe trying to come to India? Because it was the most prosperous nation Well, in two-hundred-and-fifty years we got cleaned up, we can’t… well, somebody did it to us because we can’t just blame them because it is also ourselves who allowed that thing to happen to ourselves Now we are trying to build back, all right? But even though you kept them in such abject poverty, wherever these people went, they made sure not a bit of the local culture remained Just look at North America, South America, Australia and large parts of Africa, anywhere, this one culture, after thousand years of invasions, we’ve still kept our culture and our spiritual process – not for nothing! Where we are, you know, where our yoga center is, there is a police station about twelve kilometers away This police station is supposed to service nearly a quarter million people in different levels of economic situations, all right? Some are rich farmers, some are medium, some are really poor, there are tribal communities, everything There are only (Sounds like – to/till?) now… in the last thirty years I’ve been there, at a time there was only seven, eight policemen with a ASI (Referring to assistant sub-inspector of police) Today, there are about fourteen to fifteen policemen with a SI – this is an upgrade that happened three years ago Otherwise, even now, with these fourteen policemen two or three will be on leave because of something or the other, and three, four are on night duty Hardly seven, eight policemen for quarter million people, and these are poor people living in small huts Time 54:38 People are driving in Mercedes cars up and down but they never pounced on them, killed them and took what they have It never happened This is spirituality if you’ve not… if you’ve forgotten this, this is spirituality (Applause), you understand? Well, you don’t stretch this too far, you don’t take their spirituality fo… too far You have to settle what they need in their lives as quickly as possible otherwise they

won’t hold for too long But it is because of that spiritual process we as a nation have survived in spite of all the abuse that’s happened to us and don’t say rural masses don’t have spirituality, they are the ones who are really on, urban masses are losing it, isn’t it? Time 55:22 Questioner: No, my question wasn’t towards rural masses, mine is like… Sadhguru: No, poor… Questioner: … for example, I’ll just… Sadhguru: Poverty, right? Questioner: Not… not poverty as such but for people who are working every day, like for example the maid in my house, for example, she let’s say she works in five-six different houses, she probably is able to make 4000, 5000 a month and at that point of time she would try to… the most important thing going in her mind would be educating her children, probably feeding herself I am saying that they do deserve to… Sadhguru: Yes Questioner: …have the self-awareness and the spirituality but how… how will we… Sadhguru: Okay, how will we do it? If you do not know this – seventy percent of our work is in rural India, where the poorest of the poor are, okay? Poorest of the poor are in rural India, seventy percent of our work is in rural India and it’s free It’s free of cost You walk with me in Tamil Nadu – you go into a village, the entire village will gather not for money, not for something else because they know there is (are?) some tools of transformation which they can make use of So, in the city there is money involved simply because you want it in a air-conditioned room Air-conditioning is on right now, whether I pay or you pay or somebody else pays, somebody is paying for it, isn’t it? If you don’t understand this, you have no sense of economy That’s a biggest problem in the country – people have no sense of economy so they are always asking for welfare schemes, “Give me this, give me that.” But whether I pay or you pay, somebody is paying, isn’t it? If what is paid is not accounted for, it’s not going to work This is the reason why we are poor because we are not conducting our economics properly Now spiritual process is about inner strength – especially if (Sounds like – we/you?) are going through hardships, inner strength is most important or no? That is the time to remove it Is it there for the rural masses? Definitely there, much more than… Seventy percent of our time we are investing but when I come to the city, when I come to Delhi, activists come and invite me, “Why are you only meeting the rich and powerful? Why are you not coming to the slum?” I said, “The whole goddamn country is a slum and I’m traveling all over When I come to Delhi I want to meet only the rich and powerful, let it be very clear to you I’m not going to come to the slum in Delhi because the entire country is a slum if you’ve not seen.” Questioner: Thank you, sir Time 57:45 Questioner: Sadhguru, many of my colleagues and I are soon going to begin our professional careers So, there may be occasions in the… in the course of our career, where we are confronted with certain moran… moral dilemmas For example, a situation where you are required to defend someone you know is guilty or a situation where you… you have to prosecute someone you know is innocent Now the law says that every accused is entitled to an attorney and the right to a fair trial Now if I decide to defend this particular accused individual and I defend… and I defend him successfully then should I be pleased with the acquittal or should I regret the… the fact that the victim has been… has not received justice? So, how do I reconcile this conflict between my conscience and my professional obligation? Sadhguru: See, your profession is a constitutional obligation You have no business to see what is right and wrong Your business is just to interpret the constitution for the well-being of the citizen who comes to you Crime he’s committed maybe, but sometimes the crimes are so heinous, then the human question will come up, “Should I save this guy at all?” So, this is not a mo… don’t make this into a moral dilemma This is a professional thing, where you must decide – are you fulfilling your constitutional responsibility or no? This is not for you to take a moral stand Okay, this guy has done something that I don’t like, so let him hang – this is not for you to decide Your business is just to interpret the law, so that everybody gets a fair this thing This once happened Can I tell you a joke? A very serious lawyer you are (Laughter)! Time 59:41 Sadhguru: This happened Shankaran Pillai was accused of murder (Laughter)… accused of murder So he went on pleading, “Not guilty, not guilty, not guilty.” After four years, when the case was nearly coming to a close suddenly he said, “Okay,

I will plead guilty.” So the judge asked, “All these four years whatever we said, you went on saying ‘not guilty’ Now you are saying ‘guilty’ What is this?” He said, “At that time, I had not heard the evidence” (Laughter) So when somebody commits a crime, of course he tries to save his skin, all right? And when somebody commits a crime, it’s not for everybody to take a call Right now, it’s happening on the social media and even in the television channels, “Okay, hang him, castrate him, do this, do that.” If you go by this, then lynching is what you will do in the end Why go to the court? Let’s lynch them when we see they have done something wrong Because when something really terrible happens in front of you or you come to know it’s happened – it’s not just robbery, some terrible things are being done, all right? When really terrible things happen, the crowd will want to lynch that guy Even regular people See, responsible people in the country are uttering these words, “I would like to be the hangman for this guy.” So why they are saying this is, yes, your humanity burns when you see such things happening but you as a lawyer, your business is just to interpret the law, to stay within the framework of the constitution It’s not for you… Because you know this guy has committed the crime, it’s not for you to take a gun and shoot that guy in the court That’s not your business That should happen through due process If we… Even if it looks unjust, what is unjust is the length of time that these legal procedures are taking If we want justice to be reasonable and human or humane, it’s very important the time has to be reduced This time is killing people and this time is making people do extra judicial stuff – simply because the amount of time it’s taking This has to change Interviewer: So… I mean it was an extremely insightful explanation wherein you talked about why certain mobs, why certain individuals take law in their own hands May it be the judicial delays, may it be the time-consuming process Just one clarificatory question I had here, is that, while the absence of a adequate legal infrastructure might propel them to do such acts, are such acts justified despite the inadequate legal infrastructure, that’s one question Sadhguru: I thought I made that extremely clear in the previous answer Anything outside the framework of law, the moment you think it’s all right, however nice and right it may look to you, then you are breaking the nation Interviewer: May it be as a lawyer or as a citizen? Time 62:57 Sadhguru: Even as a citizen But at the same time, when there is no law, when the law is skewed in somebody else’s favor, I know I will not get justice, something terrible happens to me, you can’t stop this human being from doing it So it is both ways Is it correct? It is definitely not correct Nobody has the right to do it but you cannot use that position and keep on keeping people in a state of injustice They will act in their own way So legal reforms need to happen rapidly otherwise you will see things going, people taking it in their own hands Interviewer: Thank you for the answer Interviewer 2: Sir, you had quoted earlier that in… in one of your previous videos that the curse of a shudra has no power The curse of a Vaishya… Sadhguru: What (Laughs)?! No Interviewer 2: Yes sir I… It was in a video, I’ve seen, sir Sadhguru: No Interviewer 2: The curse of a… Sadhguru: You must have heard somebody else not me Time 64:03 Interviewer 2: No sir, I did… okay fine, let’s move on to the next question, sir Sadhguru: Okay, no, no, complete the question I’ll answer this Interviewer 2: Because I saw the video yesterday, sir Sadhguru: Okay Interviewer 2: No, it’s a question on the curse of a Shudra or the yogin power of a Shudra has… will not amount to anything That of a Vaishya, you may lose a meal; if that of a Kshatriya, you may lose a limb and that of a Brahmana, you may lose everything And my question here is… and you had also stated that this varna system was not based on birth but was based on the occupation that person had… Sadhguru: Oh! Interviewer 2: …and the qualification of the occupation So my question here is since the karma of tch… of a Vaishya or a Shudra is defined to them and they are doing their duties, how is the power of one more than that of the other? Time 64:58 Sadhguru: No, I think this is completely misunderstood

Let me put this in the right perspective Right now, you are going on the street We said it is an occupation – it’s not by birth, it’s not… we are not talking about a caste system By occupation, those who did menial jobs were considered one It is over a period of time it became by birth Okay? Any… This is a class system which became a caste system over a period of time… thousands of years And then it became discriminatory unfortunately Anyway, right now, suppose a man who is sweeping the street got angry with you, at the most he will take some filth and throw it at you Yes? But a big businessman in the town got angry with you, he will do something else to you Kshatriya means today a police officer or a political leader got angry with you Much bigger damage will happen to your life, isn’t it? Now, there were people who had attained to certain inner ca… capabilities If they got angry with you, really damage would happen to your life This is what is being spoken Please do not misinterpret as caste system and shudra has… No, you started off with “shudra has less cursing power” – that is so even today, isn’t it? Those who are doing menial jobs do they have the same capacity to damage your life, as a person who is in power? That’s all that’s being spoken there (Applause) Interviewer 3: Thank you for the answer, Sadhguru The next question is something which all students deal with is how does one figure out their passion? And should one necessarily follow their passion even if it means sacrificing comfort, lifestyle or geographical proximity to family? And should passion always override such considerations which might also be important in their own way? Time 66:55 Sadhguru: See what is… Let us understand what is passion Passion is just a certain thought in your mind to which you invest certain emotion That’s your passion, right? You can be passionate about a certain activity, you can be passionate about a certain person, you can be passionate about a certain thing How did this happen? It’s a thought in which you invested a certain amount of emotion I am saying if you know this and if you know how to generate thoughts consciously and invest emotion consciously, this wouldn’t be… even be a (an?) issue Right now, passions are happening compulsively What happens compulsively will lead you wherever it leads you Sometimes it takes you to a good place Sometimes it takes you to a bad place But if it means so much to you, it means so much to you means it is just that you have invested so much emotion in it That’s all it is Because you have invested so much emotion in it, you may not be able to look at it logically once again You have lost your fundamental discretion simply because you’ve invested so much emotion in it I don’t think that’s a way to build one’s life One must build their life consciously but most people don’t understand what is building life consciously They only do things by chance This is why those who are successful are stressed Those who have failed are frustrated Both are suffering What else should happen in their life? That’s what they need to look at What needs to happen in their life is they must learn to conduct their physical body, their psychological process, their emotional process, and the fundamental energy process in the body consciously If this happens consciously, this will happen the way you want If this happens the way you want, you living joyfully or blissfully is a natural thing In the world what you do is not according to your passion In the world what you do is what is most needed today, that’s what you must do “This is my passion” the world doesn’t need it but you keep on doing it, what is the point? Time 69:13 Interviewer 3: So just a follow up on that question about the world… I mean, certain things we need to done (do?) to improve certain issues or to remedy certain problems Now, from my limited understanding or at least what we learnt in textbooks is Buddhism talks about how we should not be attached to something or how in certain cases we should be detached I mean it talks about how suffering… one of the reasons behind suffering is attachment Now my question to you, Sadhguru, on this is that how can I attempt to remedy injustice if I am not sentimentally (Sadhguru laughs) affected or attached to a particular cause? How can I help a particular friend or empathize with him if I am not attached with him? So this obsessiveness or attachment, is it necessarily bad? Sadhguru: See, this attachment-detachment business is a misunderstanding that’s come

out of the Gita in this country People misunderstood Krishna like nothing (Laughs), in the sense – people think Krishna is talking about detachment Please look at his life His life is involvement, isn’t it? If you look at the scape of whatever we know about his life, whatever little we know about his life, his life spells involvement, involvement, involvement with everything around him So this person unfortunately is being accused of detachment See, if there is no involvement there is no life You can only know life with involvement Even if the meal that you eat today, if you are not involved you will not know what it is Without involvement you cannot even taste life Not possible People are talking about detachment because of fear of suffering Fear of suffering has come because when they involve, they get entangled They do not know how to get involved They just get entangled Entanglement is happening because your involvement is very discriminatory Is that sinking in? Time 71:17 Interviewer 3: So I should be equally involved in everything? Is this what you are saying? I mean… Sadhguru: Tell me, if you are less involved in your breath and more involved in your eating, you think life will work (Applause)? See, breath is involuntary That’s what I’m… That’s why I am using the word “breath” because it’s involuntary You don’t have to do anything It’s just happening but we are involved by keeping the air conditioning on otherwise we’ll suffocate This is our involvement We turned on the machine We may not be consciously breathing, all right, but we are involved Without involvement in every aspect of life, you will get skewed and that is when psychologically you get messed up so much that in many ways mind gets deranged Seeing this, somebody said, “You are too attached You must be detached” No, detachment will not work either Can you be detached and do something well? Can you do something well, being detached about it? No You need absolute involvement If you have an indiscriminate sense of involvement, you will see there is no entanglement in your involvement If you discriminate, you will get entangled The problem is of discrimination not of involvement Time 72:35 Interviewer 3: Fine So thank you for the answer Interviewer 4: Sadhguru, in one of your uploads on YouTube, you speak of an experience where you have consumed the cobra venom and you describe this experience as something, where one part of yourself felt like you are in a state of slumber, while the other part of you felt like you are in a higher level of brightness So how do you perceive the use of other natural intoxicants such as weed or bhang which take you to the same level of (Cheers & Applause) higher consciousness but the only difference lies in the means which are adopted in reaching that higher level of consciousness So why has the consumption of weed in India remained a stigmatized subject and fortunately for us we have seen a minister in the Narendra Modi cabinet, Mrs. Menaka Gandhi, who has come out in support of legalization of marijuana So could you also tell us what your take is on whether or not marijuana should be decriminalized given that there is enough evidence to suggest that (Sadhguru Laughs) there is medical benefits associated with the consumption of marijuana? Sadhguru: Medical benefits are for those who are sick, isn’t it (Laughter/Applause)? We talk about medical benefits when people get sick, not when they are healthy, all right? So I am glad you have been doing some research about finding that cobra venom thing We are not consuming cobra venom on a daily basis We are consuming mercury on a daily basis sometimes but that is not for intoxication nor do we need cobra venom for intoxication Just look at my eyes and see, they are always stoned (Cheers) Really, don’t put your head down Just look at me and see (Laughter), I am always stoned Interviewer 4: (Sounds like – I admire?) Sadhguru: Not… I never touched a substance but is it true that this human mechanism is the most sophisticated chemical factory on the planet? Hello? Time 74:56 Participants: Yes Sadhguru: So if you know how to manage this well, you can produce what you want in this

Anyway, there was an Israeli scientist You might have heard about him because you’ve done so much research on this aspect He wanted… he was doing research on cannabis and its impact on the neurological system So he started this research in United States Every year he was getting some fifteen kilograms of cannabis For almost twelve – thirteen years he got this And he produced no results and in 1980s when US drug agencies, you know, the agencies which were working against the drug smuggling and stuff, they decided to not hit the suppliers but hit the market So the street was burning with police action At that time the police and the agencies said, “This guy is getting thirteen kilograms (Laughs) per year We have not seen any paper from him It must stop.” So they stopped Then he moved to Israel and he showed what he has done And they supplied marijuana for him as much as he wants In about four-and-a-half years, he came up with this – he said, “There are millions of cannabis res… receptors in our brain.” But why? So he threw this information to all kinds of scientific disciplines to find out why in human brain there are millions of cannabis receptors Time 76:34 Well, naturally the anthropologists said, “Maybe at some time the whole humanity was smoking” (Laughs) But that’s not possible because many parts of the world it doesn’t exist But even there, they have After many things, many funny things happened around the world in this context, then the neurologists came up with this and said, “The brain is expecting that you will produce cannabis within the system.” It’s not expecting you to smoke It’s expecting you produce that so that it becomes a mood equalizer for you all the time But most human beings have become inefficient chemical factories or they are just lousy CEOs managing a great factory So they start smoking from outside (Laughs) It’s not a moral issue It’s not a moral issue for me But the thing is, there is substantial studies which are being put down by those Pew (Referring to Pew Research Center in US) activists who want to promote it There is substantial studies to show that your decision making, your… certain dimensions of your brain particularly about decision making are sufficiently suppressed if you smoke marijuana for thirty days This will last for four to five years, your decision making is clearly affected With that kind of mind, with that kind of a brain, if you enter the court and I am putting my life in your hands, I don’t want a cannabis smoking lawyer for me I don’t want a cannabis smoking surgeon to work upon me If he is just smoking on the street corner not doing anything to anybody, it’s his problem But definitely I don’t want my surgeon to be on marijuana and do surgery on me Yes or no? Do you want (Few Laugh)? Nor do I want other drivers – because I drive at a certain speed – I don’t want other drivers who are smoked out driving with me I don’t want Nor do I want my driver ever if at all if I sit in the backseat, to have smoked and then driving If you want that, you choose but we don’t want that Most people don’t want that because they know what it’ll lead to So what we are looking at recreation, we have made it this way What this means is essentially, today seventy percent of the American population is on prescription medication Rest of the world is trying to catch up (Laughter) Yes Rest of the world is trying to catch up People are starting medicines very early on their life The remaining thirty percent of course are going on things that you are talking about Why just stop with cannabis, why don’t we do some cocaine because it really fires us up? You know (Gestures) (Laughter)? Hey, it’s okay man (Laughs) It’s all right with me I told you it’s not a moral issue for me It’s a question of whether it will enhance your life or suppress your life Whether it will allow you to live your life full on or will it make you a smaller life than the way you are or what you are capable of Nothing less than what you can do must happen in this life, isn’t it, for whatever reason – either because of your attitudes or your stress or your drug or for whatever reason – you should not become a human being less than what you could be

You must maximize this life because all you have in this life is how intense and profound is your experience of life, that’s all there is and half the time if you are dazed out, you will miss that possibility But if you come to me I can teach you a way, simply you can sit here and be stoned out (Cheers) (Applause) No… Really Not just me I have… I do this to any number of people Thousands of people they just sit there and boom (Laughter) Every day in the morning I can show you millions of people who close their eyes, tears of ecstasy dripping Because there is a way, there is a way to activate this system, because there is no more complex chemistry on the planet than this one (Referring to oneself) Yes or no? Do you agree with me? Time 80:55 When there is… When everything is here it’s best to learn to use this If we invest some time early on in your life, very effortlessly you can get here Instead of that if you take external inputs, we know all the negative impacts of that Time 81:09 Moderator: So sir, when someone has wronged us or has abused us in some way, we either have feelings of hostility and resentment… Sadhguru: Oh, we must file a suit (Laughter) Time 121:23 Moderator: No, in a minor… in a minor sense if they abuse us or if they wrong us, we sometimes have feelings of resentment and hostility against them And sometimes we might tend to forgive them and let it go So my question here is, where must we draw a line to hold the wrong-doer responsible for what he does and when should we know to forgive him and when should we know to let it go? So this is the question Sadhguru: See, this is not about the other person The choice for you is this – if you are given a choice, right now for all of you, if you are given a choice that you can either live joyfully, blissfully, or miserably, or in anger, or in stress, or in resentment, what is your natural choice? You must choose, I’m going to bless you right now (Laughter) Participants: Joyful… Sadhguru: What is your natural choice? Participants: Joyfully… Sadhguru: Joyfully, isn’t it? Because every human being is looking for highest level of pleasantness for himself, for herself You can call it joy, you can call it bliss These are just words Essentially, we want highest level of pleasantness for ourselves If your body becomes pleasant, we call this health If it becomes very pleasant, we call this pleasure If your mind becomes pleasant, we call this peace If it becomes very pleasant, we call this joy If your emotions become pleasant, we call this love If it becomes very pleasant we call it compassion If your very life energies become pleasant, we call this bliss If it becomes very pleasant, we call it ecstasy If your surroundings become pleasant, we call this success Only to… (Applause) Only to make your surroundings pleasant, you need the cooperation of all these people Because in creating an external situation, there are many forces involved Not all of them you even know Do you understand? You wanted to create a… a wonderful situation for yourself, you don’t even know how many forces are working in that area If you harness a few forces, if they cooperate, things will happen If they don’t cooperate, it won’t happen But for the pleasantness of the body, pleasantness of the mind, pleasantness of your emotion and energy, it’s one-hundred percent you Yes or no? Is that yes or no? Participants: Yes Sadhguru: No, no Because in some cultures, this (Gestures) is yes, in some cultures, this (Gestures) is… you know? Yes, right? Time 84:04 Moderator: Yes Sadhguru: Surroundings Creating situations in the surroundings you need cooperation from the people, otherwise it won’t happen So only for success, you need cooperation To keep yourself pleasant, it’s one-hundred percent yours So right now, you know well that you want to be peaceful But, somebody else is doing something What are they doing? They know (are doing?) what they know best They are abusing you Why are they doing it? Because that’s all they know Yes or no? That is what… That is how they know their life That’s why they are doing it If you become resentful and you think something will happen to them… See, these are things – anger, resentment, hatred – these are all poisons that you drink and you expect somebody else to die No, life doesn’t work like that You drink poison, you die It’s a very fair life (Applause)

If you drink poison, you die Very fair, isn’t it so? I drink poison and you die, is it fair (Few laugh)? So people who are in anger, resentment, hatred, this is their thing They are drinking poison When I say poison… When I say poison, I am not saying in a moral sense There is substantial medical evidence right now that we can show you with a blood test that five minutes before… You take your blood test right now, five minutes you remain in extreme anger and take your blood test, you will see you are chemically poisoned, actually So you are literally poisoning yourself, thinking it’s going to hurt them No It (is?) only going to hurt you So it doesn’t make sense to me That’s all It’s not a morality whether you should get angry or not get angry It’s up to you, if you want to make a mess out of yourself Time 85:52 Moderator: So this is a question we were sent And the context of this question as I understand is that previously our understanding of gurus or mystics were individual… individuals who meditated and were in penance in forests (Sadhguru laughs), who were not attached to… I mean who are not attached or concerned with businesses So a question we were sent is that now we see a lot of mystic individuals who have huge foundations, who have companies Some of whom who have gone into production of foods and soaps So, the question here is that is this… Sadhguru: Toothpaste… That’s the most popular (Laughter) Time 86:34 Moderator: So the question here is that, is this a healthy trend that you have individuals who you otherwise identified as individuals, devoid of material pleasures, or away from material pleasures, or away from businesses are now actually turning to them? Sadhguru: Well, you have not yet managed a business Managing a business is definitely not a pleasure (Laughs), okay? But I know who is in the focus right now (Laughter) See, I was (Laughs)… I had a… some kind of a conference in Chennai And somebody came to pick me up and the driver was driving He’s a regular driver He goes behind what is in front of him And it’s getting late I have a reputation to keep, that in these thirty-seven years I have not been late to a single event in my life (Applause) Though in one day I may have three, four, five events, still I have not been late to one So I want to get there This guy is going at his own pace in the traffic So I said, “You get out” and I took the wheel, and I did some force driving That was in Tamil Nadu The Andhra Pradesh police cannot do anything about it (Laughter) So I did some force driving and just made it in time The security gate at the hotel, you know these days they are stopping you, opening your bonnet, checking your engine and your boot Nobody knows what they are looking for (Laughter) After that… After that Mumbai event, unfortunately everybody has to go through this So the car in front of me went and the gate opened I just went through and they were screaming I came into the portico, stopped, left the car there and ran into the conference There was some journalist standing there After I finished the thing and I came back, they said, “In ancient times yogis, used to walk (Few laugh) You drive your own car, what kind of a yogi are you?” Then I said, “You idiot, in ancient times, everybody was walking (Laughter/Applause) Not just a yogi.” So… Time 88:50 Moderator: So mystics keep with the times? Sadhguru: Hmm? Moderator: So mystics keep with the times? Sadhguru: Oh, they were always contemporary (Laughter) The problem… The problem is most people’s idea of a mystic is the Sivakasi calendar (Few laugh), where one man is sitting under the tree with a constipated look on his face (Laughter) That is a calendar art That is not a mysticism, all right? The mystics of the day… Well, look at anybody If you call Krishna a mystic, he was working with the kings all the time because he wanted to transform the political system If you see Gautama Buddha, always working with the kings, because he wants to transform the political system Without transforming the political system, people will not benefit So always, the gurus were always around the kings not because of their palaces, because of their concern – unless the one who rules transforms himself, there will be no benefit for the people Right from ages, you go back wherever you want – always they were around the kings not looking for crumbs in the palace but simply because unless you transform that one fool,

the country will not change (Applause) Time 90:07 Moderator: Sir, it’s been indicated to us that there is lack of time So what we could do is that I have a question on Section 377, and Angad has a question on something else If I’m not wrong, 377 will be taken up by somebody in the audience So I’ll let that go Or if its… does anybody in the audience have that question? Then I’ll let it go Does nobody have a question on that? Fine So sir, when somebody asked you for your views on Section 377, you talked about how we should not be entering into people’s bedrooms, how they should be given the privacy, how we should not be criminalizing this That being said there was a statement after that which me and a lot of Nalsarites didn’t understand as to what was the context or the basis of that statement, is that it should not be promoted What is this, it should not be promoted? Sadhguru: See right now there are people, large majority of the people are heterosexual You don’t have to promote it, anyway they will do what they have to do Similarly if there is homosexuality among a certain segment of people, no need to promote, they will do what they have to do and what a heterosexual person is doing in their bedroom, does anybody enquire what is he doing? They should not enquire, it’s not civilization I am saying Similarly no matter what the hell you are doing in your privacy, we will not even enquire I am saying because we are not interested What you are doing with your body is not my interest as long as you’re not harming yourself If you are damaging your system, then maybe we have to intervene otherwise what’s my business what you are doing with your body? Questioner: The question I have on that is, yes as far as heterosexuals are concerned they are a large majority When it comes to homosexuals, there exists social prejudices which prevent them from coming out and acknowledging what their sexuality is In that social… I mean in that context… Sadhguru: See… that was because there was a certain law, you must understand this law was made by the British The British made this law because the English soldiers that they brought from England to manage this large nation, they did not come with their wives and girlfriends They came all men, so homosexuality was all pervasive among them – because they had no options So because of that, they bought… brought this law which is actually said as buggery law Okay? So that was made in a certain context So now the Supreme Court, the highest court in the country has removed it It’s finished What is the debate continuing about it? Questioner: But I might be wrong as to what the opinion of a large portion of the population is but I don’t think I will be wrong in saying that there do still exist significant prejudices against homosexuals and in that context should we not be allowing them… Sadhguru: Tch… See… See, that is what I am saying, why should you tell me that you are a heterosexual or a homosexual? Why should you tell me, hmm? Your partner knows what you are and that’s all that matters Why should I know (Applause)? But you want to tell me and you want to tell me and I must have the right kind of emotion towards you, why are you expecting this from people? Time 93:18 Questioner: Sadhguru, the point I am arriving at is that I might be no be able to acknowledge my own… I mean, I will not be able to acknowledge it to myself, leave alone to anybody else unless and until this social prejudice… unless and until this homosexuality comes out in the open Just to give an example, once a lot of celebrities came out as “yes, we are homosexual,” other individuals who are also homosexuals but were scared of identifying themselves as such also accepted their sexuality So in that context could promotion probably make sense? Sadhguru: See we are making a mistake Sexual… The preference, sexual preference is not sexuality They are two different things, all right? Sexual preference is a different thing You’re… You’re making it like it’s a kind of a new species, it is not I am saying They are all human species, different people have different choices, it’s up to them There is no need for you to go about making some kind of a campaign about it It’s not necessary because you will inevitably get the (Sounds like – hate/heat?) from others who don’t see it that way Where is it needed, I am asking? It’s a personal choice Questioner: Yes, I might get the (Sounds like – hate/heat?) but I also might I also might be able to allow other people who are suppressed in their understanding of what their sexuality is, come out in the open and acknowledge what their sexuality is, it might help them Sadhguru: See, the thing is, what you are demanding is that everybody should acknowledge whatever you do People may not acknowledge What’s your business? It’s legal, leave it no You are not going to prison for it, that’s about it just leave it I don’t like it, so what does it matter to you?

Somebody doesn’t like it, what does it matter to you? It should not matter, that’s all I am saying It’s within the framework of law, just leave it Questioner: So Sadhguru, there is one last question in this segment or would you like to move to the next segment? We have one social media question Sadhguru: Whatever, sir You’re the boss, sir, whatever you say (Laughter) Time 95:16 Questioner: So we will pick up one last question The theme is co-existence and fear So clearly you have this strong affinity for the species of snakes Now fun fact and you’ve also gone on to say that… Sadhguru: I have a strong affinity for all species People take pictures only when I pick up a snake When I pick up a grasshopper nobody does it (Laughter) Time 95:36 Questioner: You’ve gone on to say that there is no such creature which is as perceptive as the snake So fun fact, Shamirpet is a snake infested area, we have loads of snakes around the campus Sadhguru: Here? Questioner: Yeah, in Nalsar So… Sadhguru: It’s not snake… snake infested This was their homeland and you have invaded (Cheers) Questioner: Exactly Participant: That’s something everybody agrees on Questioner: That’s something everybody acknowledges, we have come to their homeland so this is where my question is going So is there any specific reason why we are so fearful of these species when they themselves are equally fearful of us? So how do we… I mean how do we train our mind to overcome this paranoia and the larger question is how do we ensure mutually sustainable habitat where we do not disturb the human… the balance between the human-animal interaction Time 96:30 Sadhguru: See there are many… many questions in this I don’t know what’s the level of interest in snakes, accordingly I will go Hello? (Cheers) I’ve been involved with snakes from a very early age When I say “early”, I like caught my first snake probably when I was five – five-and-a-half years of age What is significant about this is, snake is one creature, if you do not know this it is stone deaf You know this? All snakes are stone deaf, they don’t have hearing mechanism at all So it literally has ear to the ground, its entire body is to the ground feeling reverberations To what extent means let’s say there is going to be a… an earthquake somewhere in Central Asia If you just observe a cobra today – let’s say in the next three days there is going to be something happening – if you observe a cobra how he behaves, you know there is going to be an earthquake If you study it sufficiently, you can even indicate the direction in which it’s going to happen and an approximate distance Whether it’s going to happen a hundred kilometers away, 1000 kilometers away or 3000 kilometers away, you can make an approximate guess, like meteorological science you can observe Because he has got his entire body to the ground, even the smallest reverb that he feels he behaves differently So in that context he is very perceptive and he is also chemically very perceptive The only way he knows you is by your chemistry He doesn’t see you very well but he knows your chemistry very well See if you go, don’t try this by yourself Hmm? Because you’re on pot (Laughs)… Questioner: No, Sir No, no Sadhguru: …you may not be quick enough for them If you just go and pick up a cobra simply like this, not by his head or something, just in the middle hold him just pick him up, he will simply come without any resistance, if there is no any anxiety or anything within you You show bit… little bit of anxiety he will go for you Because he sees it as danger immediately So I was telling people, you know… People were saying “How do we know, Sadhguru, we are really meditative and at ease?” I said “We must do a cobra test for you” (Laughter) If you just pick it up, if he just comes you’re at ease If he reacts that means you’re not at ease I don’t know one picture came for a moment in that video where I am holding a king cobra You saw that one? A king cobra… I think no, not in this, it didn’t come I think the king cobra was on the ground, there’s another picture where I’m holding a king cobra half way down and he’s just like that (Gestures) A king cobra is a snake that if it bites you, it will just hardly give you twenty to forty minutes You will die within that A regular cobra if it bites you – because you said you have snakes I’m giving you some knowledge – it mainly the cobra venom affects your cardio vascular system, it gives you anywhere between four to six hours If you don’t get excited, you may get another one or two hours extra If it bites you in the body you will have four to five hours If it bites you in the limb you may get six to eight hours’ time But if a viper bites you, you have much less time If a banded krait bites you, you just have one-and-a-half to two hours because one venom

attack… affects your neurological system, another venom affects your cardio vascular system What it is doing to you is your blood gets thicker so you can’t breathe and everything is tough because the heart will start pumping in a certain way because the blood gets thicker and thicker Coagulation happens across the body Time 100:24 Why I’m saying this to you is, the nature of the venom gives him that Venom is not only in his sac He is producing it in his entire body Today there’s so much research gone into the medical sciences, you will see in the next five to ten years’ time almost all neurological ailments will be treated with cobra venom, snake venom and spider… scorpion venom and spider venom and some sea snakes which have very special kind of venoms which could kill you in five – ten minutes So a lot of research has gone in Almost for every neurological problem that people are going through like Parkinson’s and memory losses, all this they are going to treat with venom Still it has not been approved but much research has gone in this direction so it knows your chemistry so well The beautiful thing about this is there was a time when I am sitting in some jungles in the Western Ghats – you guys are on the east but you must come to the Western Ghats, that’s a real jungle, okay (Laughs)? It’s a rainforest If I am sitting and meditating, normally I don’t know why… now I am wondering why I sat in the afternoons but I always sat in the afternoons not early mornings Afternoon I sit for meditation and I’m like sitting for five, six hours When I open my eyes, a dozen snakes are sitting here (Gestures) They’re just drawn to that chemistry When your chemistry changes they just know and it comes This is why Adiyogi is shown with a cobra on his… you know, around his neck to indicate that he is meditative, he is still within himself If you become still within yourself, you pick up the cobra, simply it will come like that When I lived in the jungles for… by myself, no food arrangement nothing 102:11 I mainly survived by drinking honey Huge beehives are built at a place where the bears can’t get They calculate – the bees have such intelligence, they calculate – a normal sloth bear weighs how much, approximately about sixty to seventy kilograms They build it on a branch where if the bear comes, even if the branch doesn’t break, the branch will be sufficiently disturbed for them to go and take care of him So it is up there and I slowly crawl up I… My motorcycle petrol tube, I always keep it extra-long about eighteen inches and I go with this tube, stick the tube and drink honey Three-and-a-quarter liters to one liter honey if I drink, for one or two days I am fully fired up with food Enough calorie in my system but when I’m drinking this honey, the bees think I am one more big bee, they don’t see me They are looking at the chemistry It’s… Little agitation if you sow… show, they will come for you In your face if eight – ten bees bite, you will die of suffocation In fear if you open your mouth, if they bite inside, one will do Just one bee if it bites you inside your mouth, you will suffocate to death And above all you will fall down from the tree, okay (Laughs)? So we can give you a cobra test or we can send people from our yoga center who will train you how to handle – suppose a snake came in… inside, how to take him and leave him in his habitat He’s come here not because he want to listen to the lecture or the conversation or the air-conditioning, he has not come for anything that you have come for By mistake he’s entered You just have to let him back there For this, little bit beyond fear you must be to take it but without training if you take it you could endanger your own life So if you want we can train fifteen, twenty people on the campus who can handle this safely (Applause) Time 104:15 Questioner: (Talks aside) So the next question is, I mean so we will be doing the social media question, there is one social media question, then we open it up for the audience questions The social media question, Sadhguru, is that how do we get the population interested in politics and in governance? Sadhguru: If you can hold it little closer Questioner: How do we get the population interested in politics and governance in view of the fact that I mean in most elections there are less than fifty percent turnouts? Sadhguru: See, this is not about politics There is not enough concern about the nation and the people

That concern has not come to a whole lot of people Still we are in that mode, our attachments to our family, our identities with our family and community is so strong, if me and my family are doing well I don’t care a damn what’s happening to the country Election Day holiday means me and my family go on a picnic, not for the voting Who will go and stand in the queue? We will go on a picnic or we will go to the cinema, we will do something else Because the identification with the family is way bigger than the national identity And because of that they think, “Ah, other people will vote.” This is their idea “Other people are going to vote, so what is there if I don’t go?” There’s a beautiful story that Mark Twain used to love to say, there was a time when people believed there are people on the moon Tch… Before Apollo, I’m saying in America people believed there are people living on the moon So they got a bright idea, they thought on one particular given moment, all of us go stand on our rooftops and shout one word together in one voice, the word that we shout is “who” at them, let’s see what they say Shall we try this here? Can all of you, I will say one, two, three, can you just say “who” as loudly as you can so that the whole Hyderabad hears? One, two, three Participants: Who! Time 106:34 Sadhguru: See you have become wonderful like this but that day came everybody, stood on the rooftop that time I got a very – what to say – a very artistic idea, tch I thought “This is such a rare moment, all these people are going to say one word and me you know I have a small voice What is… What is there if I don’t say it, and I just wanted to hear this extraordinary moment everybody saying ‘Who’.” And that moment came and it passed in total silence (Laughter) A day may come on Election Day nobody turns up except those who are herded by political parties with money and whatever goading they are doing This is an irresponsible way to exist See the word for democracy in Tamil language is Jananayakam What this means is people are the leaders, still our people have not understood that we are the leaders of this nation We are still in a monarchy mindset – we think elected person is a king or an emperor So this is lack of education, lack of information, lack of identity with the nation, a strong sense of “we build this nation” is not there Somebody is going to run this nation – this is still a British hangover We think somebody else is running the nation, we don’t understand this is our nation, we have to make it what we want Right now we bui… we have a nation where if Donald Trump opens up visas for all Indians, sixty percent of the population will swim across the oceans and get to America (Few laugh) Time 108:20 This is not right! When everybody wants to go away, we have not created a nation that people wants (want?) to live in, isn’t it? When everybody wants to come here, that means we’ve built a great nation (Applause) For this, participating in the fundamental… participating in the fundamental democratic process is a must for everybody but if you make it mandatory, it becomes ugly If you make it mandatory it becomes ugly as you know even national anthem is ugly right now Something… You must understand I went to the world cup football and I went to the English match, (Laughs) I never knew this, you know I never thought about this They played their national anthem National anthem is “God save our queen, God save our queen, give her long life and save her.” Then I thought oh my god what a beautiful national anthem we have, the way it’s composed the way the words are written, everything Them “God save the queen, God save the queen” in a democratic country? So I’m saying even such simple things we are debating, we can’t get a nation to get together and even vote even when nation is in a crisis When fifty percent of the people not eating properly is a crisis for me, it is not a normal situation for me It’s a crisis When such a crisis is there, whether I should vote or not…? Now they are making a movie, yesterday he was telling me – what’s his name, Konda? Participants: Vijay Devarakonda Time 109:57 Sadhguru: Okay (Laughs) They’re making a movie “Nota” Okay, we will say “nobody is acceptable to me”

Well, it all sounds very intellectual but believe me you don’t build a nation like this You have to make choices about whatever lousy choice you have, in that you must make a little better lousy choice If you want to improve this nation long term you cannot abstain and say “oh nobody is fit enough” Well, you stand up, if you see… See, this is a debate going on everywhere in every teashop, every college this is going on, “oh all politicians are rob… rubbish, they are thieves they are this.” If we have handed over this nation to the hands of the thieves and we are sitting back here and we don’t even have the responsibility of voting, we are the… more bigger thieves than them, isn’t it? Hello? This responsibility has to come, we have not understood our basic democratic responsibility When we do not understand that, we will become unfit for resp… democracy, then something else will take us over It is very, very important, not just voting, there are many other instruments through which you can participate in the democratic process It is very important the student community participates not on the street, not protest, not burning a bus but participating in the instruments of democracy All of you are law students – you must take a certain part of your life to educate the country and the youth, what are the ways in which they can participate in the democratic process This is very, very important to make this nation (Applause) Time 111:38 Questioner: Thank you for the answer, Sadhguru Now we open this to audience questions I think there were lot of people that side and Okay, so Javeez has been raising his hand and standing up since a long period of time, so I will give it to him first Participants: (Shouting) (Sadhguru laughs) Questioner: Good afternoon, Sadhguru ji As an elder, as a guest and as an achiever you have my respect Now, you’ve been talking about a lot of undernourishment in India, people who are undernourished, it is these very undernourished people that we have taken away the food from, their nutrition and secondly it is these minorities who are scared to, you know, do things out of their own volition, exercise their own autonomy because of the environment we have created And you have also talked about, you know, how America respects its national anthem There have been several politically motivated stances taken by a lot of people whereby they decided not to respect the national anthem Sadhguru: No, no, no, they decided to respect in a different way Questioner: True Sadhguru: There is a difference Questioner: But it’s also… By not standing up is the point here I am saying that I mean we have created an environment of coercion and violence here And in solidarity if we decide to you know not do that… it seems like a politically motivated… Sadhguru: Please the microphone ____(Unclear) No We didn’t hear the last sentence, if you… Questioner: Yeah We have created an environment of coercion and violence in the society All the people are being forced to do this against their autonomy So in solidarity if we decide to not stand for the national anthem… There are bigger things here If you… I hope that was not a rhetorical when you asked us, “is there a solution?” Why should we, you know look for a higher ideal somewhere, why can’t we just you know live with acceptance and tolerance instead, you know, respect these people’s opinions? That’s the idea That’s the solution Sadhguru: No, no, where does acceptance and tolerance and national anthem…? I don’t even understand where is the relationship Questioner: Because many people don’t want to stand for the national anthem because it’s probably against their beliefs or you know they… we are failing them as a nation How will, you know, us appealing to some created deity of a nation help us in solving these problems? Sadhguru: See, I am… I am hundred percent with you if we are thinking in a spiritual way I am not identified with my nationality, I see all people around the world are involved with me My work largely today has become much bigger outside the country than here So it is not… See you are looking at this in a very simplistic way or in a rudimentary way, in the sense – you think everybody should be either for or against I am not for or against I am just asking you… Now you talked about various levels of injustice which has happened in the country, unfortunately it is a fact The question is, to correct this, should we stay together or each one of us do our own thing and hope it will get corrected? Time 114:37 Questioner: I am just saying that the staying together can happen by acceptance and tolerance and not by… Sadhguru: Yes, sir, but that’s not happened, right? It can happen in theory but has it happened? I will tell you if everybody turns spiritual, if they experience something beyond their body, beyond their mind and beyond their beliefs and everything, the whole world will become

one I know that and I am working for that but do I believe it will happen tomorrow morning? It’ll not happen tomorrow morning Questioner: I mean… ] Sadhguru: I must tell you, when I was… How old are you? Questioner: I’m twenty-one Sadhguru: Hmm? Questioner: I’m twenty-one Sadhguru: Okay, when I was four years beyond you, when I was twenty-five something happened to me I just sat in one place and suddenly I realized every cell in my body was bursting with ecstasy I didn’t do anything, simply it was overflowing with ecstasy Then I realized if you don’t do anything, if you don’t mess with anything in the body or in the mind, it just overflows with ecstasy by itself When I realized this I actually sat down and made a plan This is so simple – on that day the world’s population was 5.6 billion people – I made a calculation and said in two-and-a-half years’ time I will make the whole world ecstatic because it doesn’t need anything If you just teach them how not to mess with themselves, they will all become ecstatic I thought it is going (Snaps fingers) to happen on that day But look at me, thirty-seven years – hey, you’re not looking at me – thirty-seven years and well I’ve touched over five hundred million people but that’s not my idea of the world My idea of the world is 7.6 billion people Now I know I will die as a failure Joyfully but as a failure So I want you to understand the nation is not built on some egalitarian ideas People need emotion, without emotion they won’t come together They… You cannot put people together without emotion, whether it’s a family or a nation it’s true Time 116:43 Questioner: Just one last point I want to make You have so much soft power as a celebrity and you know as a mystic who is well known throughout India and the state at the same time is the (Sounds like – state well?) So I mean in such a politically charged environment, us taking a stance I do think that’s problematic to lot of other communities which disagree with what’s happening Sadhguru: What stance have I taken? Questioner: In terms of saying that you know national anthem should be respected (Sadhguru laughs) you know these are things which people don’t agree with Sadhguru: Okay, what would you like to respect about this nation, please tell me no, we’ll do that Constitution at least? Time 117:22 Questioner: Sure I mean, I’m saying there are… let’s just respect each other, that’s it Sadhguru: See, where is each other, we don’t meet each other, right, every day? See please understand, when we say a nation, we’re not talking it’s a flag or it’s an anthem When we say a nation, we are talking it’s a certain people So there are certain symbols which represent these people whom you call as Indians right now So, why three stripe colors, why can’t we have seven colors? Yes we can have, why not, if you want to redesign the flag you can but right now this is it, all right?If you want to change the design, we can You want to change the anthem, we can re… rewrite the anth… anthem if you wish but I am saying without tools of integration, you don’t make a nation It is idealistic to say “let’s not have anything, let’s just live as a global village.” Its fantastic idea but can you make it a reality? Can you execute this idea, that’s all I am asking? I am talking about execution As an idea, global is fine If there is no nationality in the world, it’ll be a fantastic world but are we capable of doing that? Within a state we have to break two states because we can’t get along for some reason, isn’t it? Moderator: So I think we’ll spread out the questions in the interest of bringing out diversity of opinion If the mic could be given to the lady in the third seat here Here, can the mic be given to her Time 118:57 Questioner: Namaskaram, Sadhguru Sadhguru: Who is this, where are you? Questioner: Namaskaram Sadhguru Sadhguru, I’m… I’ll take only forty-five seconds, okay Sadhguru: Question is forty-five seconds? ____(Unclear) Questioner: I won’t disturb anyone because there are many of us want to question… Moderator: Really sorry Can the mic be given to the lady in the third seat? Questioner: Can I ask the question first? Sadhguru: You should ask, you are going about giving a speech (Laughter) Questioner: Sir, I want to tell you are… you are just my life, okay Sadhguru: No, no, this is not a romantic expression, please ask the question Questioner: So my question is, sir, you told in your childhood you experienced the realization of ignorance, some point when I watch your video I also feel… felt that I don’t know really nothing, nothing means nothing but after ten minutes or fifteen minutes I get influenced by my mind or something like that and I lose that realization I want to live like that, I want to live that…

I want to live like the realization that “I don’t know”, from that realization my intelligence just becomes pure and I can look at everything… Sadhguru: Mhmm That’s fine Time 120:13 See, just intellectually thinking I do not know is not the point You must know the pain of not knowing The pain of not knowing should sear through you Only then, your intelligence becomes awake See, just… just look at this – suppose I ask you to walk from here to there right now Lights are on and you will simply walk like this (Gestures) without noticing anything Suppose we make this hall pitch dark, you don’t know what is next step Will you walk – everything alert, all your senses, intelligence, awareness, everything super alert simply because you do not know where the next step is So, “I do not know” is not an intellectual conclusion It is the pain of not knowing It must really (Laughs) sear through you, it won’t let you sleep, it won’t let you eat, it will keep you in a certain way When it keeps you in that way, then you will see your intelligence stays awake and alert In sleep and in wakefulness it stays alert When that happens, whe… See, just now we finished Ganesh Chaturthi What Ganesh Chaturthi means is… It’s all become all about eating now (Laughs) We’ve made it like that because we only see Ganesha’s big stomach these days and we are inspired by that Essentially, you know the story of what happened that, that little boy stopped Shiva and Shiva decided to take off the head of a gana A gana means – ganas are described this way that they were talking in a language that nobody understood and they had limbs which had no bones, like this it’s described in the… certain texts So, he took off one of their heads or the chief of the Gana and put it on this boy and made him live with this new head So he had this new head which is not a human head Because of this, he was extraordinarily intelligent You’ve heard of those stories, where he asked Vyasa that “If you dictate something to me you should not stop If you stop, I will give up this stupid project and go If you don’t know what you’re talking, I’m not going to write down You must simply speak, without a break, only then I will write down.” 122:31 So, essentially, Ganesha had enor… he’s Ganesha, not Gajesha, okay? The elephant head came because of Sivakasi calendars So he is a Ganapati, and he has an extraordinary head and an intelligence Because of this intelligence, he cleared all obstacles So he became Vigneshwara So our interest is that in him that if we have intelligence like this, we will remove all obstacles in our lives This is the phenomenal… This is the fundamental and the phenomena of Ganesha is just this – that if your intelligence is always on, you simply dissolve all obstacles in your life So, he is a Vigneshwara But on that day, most people are use… usually only boosting their belly, not their brain What it means is you need a new head Moderator: So, Angad has already chosen, so if you could give… and then we’ll move on to to Joe because Joe, I mean some people there also because he has been raising his hand for some time Participant: Namaskaram, Sadhguru Many people say that thoughts create karma and sometimes our biggest fears keep on recurring in our minds on a daily basis So, how do we stop that flow of thoughts and how do we stop those fears from materializing? And also how to cut down on unwanted karma? 143:51 Sadhguru: Whoa! See, this whole karma business has been very misunderstood and been projected as a fatalistic process Karma means this – karma means action Literally translates as action As you sit here there is physical activity going on, there is mental activity going on, there is emotional activity going on, there is energy activity going on These four dimensions of karma are happening within you every moment of your life Both in wakefulness and in sleep, it’s happening Now, if I ask you a question, since today morning, since you woke up to this moment, how much of these four dimensions of karma are you conducting consciously? How much do you think? Percentage Well below one percent, believe me It’s way below one percent When one percent of your life let us say is conducted consciously and ninety-nine percent accidently, you must be shit-scared of life, how else to live, hmm? (Laughs) If you are driving a car and ninety-nine percent it is accidental the way you are driving,

will you be scared or not? So, fear is a consequence of your inability to manage the nature of your intellect See, your life’s experience is happening this way These are three dimensions There is something called as memory which feeds you all the time Memory is not just what you remember You don’t remember ten generations ago how your great-great-grandmother looked, do you? You don’t but her nose is sitting on your face Yes or no? You have genetic memory, you have evolutionary memory, you have karmic memory, articulate and inarticulate levels of memory The… This entire thing is memory, head to toe Every cell in the body is memory, isn’t it? We can take one cell and create the whole of you and that’s how your parents also did Just one cell and see, you’ve become like this Time 145:57 So, there is enormous amount of memory in this This memory rules certain things, but there is a present experience Memory is of the past, but the present is of experience, your ability to experience If you want to experience anything, you must be conscious, you must be aware, only then you can experience The future is an imagination So memory, experience and imagination, it is between these three dimensions in which you exist Memory, you cannot change because it’s already there Present, you don’t have to change because that is also here right now It’s only the imagination which you can change So what are you fearful about? Something that will happen or you think will happen, isn’t it? Fear is always about something which does not exist right now; it’s always about what will happen So you are suffering that which does not exist If you are suffering that which does not exist, there are psychiatric terms for that Hello? Your only comfort is everybody is in the same state That’s how it is in a asylum usually Everybody is in the same condition but right now people are in this condition – what happened ten years ago they can still suffer, what may happen day after tomorrow they already suffer They are suffering things which does (do?) not exist, simply because in your education system (Laughs) you are studying about everything except how to manage this (Referring to Oneself) If you do not know how to manage this, it doesn’t matter how much nonsensical information you have gathered, it’ll be not of much use to your life You must know how to keep this, how to conduct this body, how to conduct this mind, how to conduct this emotional structure and the energy structure If you do not know anything about this, then you are an accidental being, you being fearful is good otherwise you may cause enormous harm to yourself Time 148:00 Moderator: The next person if I am not wrong was Joe, so he will be… Sadhguru: You got all… everything set, hmm (Laughs) Participant (Joe): Hello, Jaggi Vasudev, Sir My… Before I ask my question, I just have to tell you that I was very impressed by your e-commerce website which sells yoga merchandise I think it’s… it’s really cool It’s better than Flipkart and Amazon and I hope that you know in a few years’ time it will become the biggest e-commerce company and it could be… (Overlapping conversation) Sadhguru: No, no, no, no No, no, no, no I’ve… we’ve… It’s a conscious decision I’ve taken that our commerce part is done just to take care of a few things Our commerce will never grow beyond the foundation part I clearly made the distinction there is Isha Foundation and there is Isha Business and we’ve contained the business In spite of enormous demand, we have contained the business because (Overlapping conversation) Participant (Joe): Yeah, yeah So it’s very impressive, Sir Sadhguru: No, you should not be impressed by that You must come and see what I do otherwise – the real thing! Participant (Joe): Sir, my question… I… I want to tell you that I was also very impressed by your commitment to rule of law that was evident from the discussions that we have had In the same light, I just want to ask you that in one of the blogs that you have written in your website, you speak about woman’s entry to Shani Temples and there you say that, “Look, the reason why they shouldn’t be allowed is because there are planetary forces and it’s not good for women to enter these temples.” In the same vein, I just want to tell you a little about the law on the point There are Supreme Court judgments which say that if you want… if you make laws, which tend to be discriminatory for women, it cannot be a justification that we are doing it for their benefit That cannot be the justification for any law that discriminate against women This is the law of the land (Sadhguru Laughs)(Laughter/Applause) Sadhguru: I’m… I’m (Overlapping conversation) ____(Unclear)… Participant (Joe): So, in that same vein, would you say that if that is the law of the land, then you are committed to the ideals of law then, one, how do you justify that and two, one more question, Sir…

Sadhguru: Yes Let me ____(Unclear)… Participant (Joe): Just a follow up question, the second part of the question is – in the same article you also mention that we can control the impact of planetary forces on our life through Inner Engineering What is Inner Engineering? Is it a program that Isha Foundation hands out? Sadhguru: What is that? What is Inner Eng…? Participant (Joe): What exactly is Inner Engineering? Is it something that you guys do and like only… what… only if you guys can tell us what is Inner Engineering only then will we be able to, you know, face the forces of… planetary forces? What exactly is this concept of Inner Engineering? Sadhguru: No, no Oh! Okay Okay, okay, okay, we’ll answer that (Laughs) So right now, why don’t you ask this institution Nalsar, only if you tell us what is law, we will know what’s the law (Applause/Cheering) What is it? Time 150:47 Participant (Joe): I’m sorry, sir, if you can clarify that… I didn’t get what you just said Sadhguru: No, no, you tell your institution in which you are, only if you trap us here for five years and tell us what is the law, will we understand what is the law? Don’t we know? Well, because… only because you do not know, you have come here, right, to learn? Similarly, only because people could not figure it by themselves… figure it out by themselves, they have come And only because it’s working for them, they are coming in millions, okay? You have seven hundred people here, we have nine million volunteers working across the world (Applause) So it must be working for them So, do not make these judgments and don’t think it’s very smart to simply make judgments (Sounds like – for/on?) everything You are a lawyer, you are not a judge, all right (Applause)? So, let’s come to the question Let’s come to the question See, please… please don’t do these things; it is happening from both segments of people What you like, boooh, you shout and clap Please don’t do that For or against – that’s not the way The way to do this is, are we interested in knowing and enhancing… You ask a question as a way to enhance your knowing, not just to prove that you are smart If you think you can prove you are smart, we will do certain… something else to that Anyway, you asked this question, “I like the e-commerce!” I know when you started off, I know when Joe is called, why he is called, we know what it is, I am not that dumb, okay? When I sit here, when I just look at you, I know what you can ask I will tell you Let me tell you this? Hello? Time 152:23 We… When I trained teachers to handle Inner Engineering programs, now we have transformed the program in a different way, but at one time when it was very intense, I trained the teachers like this: somebody walks into the hall, they settle down here today by themselves without being guided “You just see…” I made a chart of the hall and (Sounds like –say/said?), “See, if they sit here, if they sit here, if they sit here, this is the question they will ask! You just be ready When he raises his question, you know this is what he will ask!” Ninety-three to ninety-four percent of the time, it’s always ri… like that People think they are free and they are asking questions but if they sit in that place, that’s a question they will ask In any… In any venue, not in any particular venue, just anywhere, this may… this may not look logical to you, but life happens like that, anyway So, now you are… when you start praising the e-commerce, I know why it is, it’s not that you are appreciating it I’m telling you, Isha Foundation is a foundation run by the volunteers Over 4,600 fulltime volunteers who are far more educated than you are and over nine million part-time volunteers across the world giving their time and money and energy to make this happen Why are people doing this? We are not promising them, “We’ll take you to heaven.” We are not telling you, “You will go and sit in God’s lap.” Why are they doing it? It must have done wonders to them, otherwise why will they invest their life in it? So, without knowing anything, don’t make conclusions So, are you the only one? Well, you can do it in so many other ways if you knew how to figure it out, why would I be needed? You do not know how to figure it out so somebody comes and helps If somebody comes and helps, “Why are you helping people (Laughs)?” “You leave them with their problems, they’ll be good business for a lawyer,” is that what you are talking to me? (Laughs) Please, don’t… don’t feed upon people’s problems People have problems If you have solution, it’s good If you don’t have a solution, at least leave them alone Time 154:34 Now, about commerce, we have every day… every day in the Yoga Center, the minimum meal is around 7,000 people per meal On the weekends, it’s 15-20,000 Whoever comes, nobody enquires, “Who are you? Why are you eating here?” Whoever comes, they are welcome and they are fed, all right? And we are running twelve schools in rural, in remotest parts of India which is the same

level of education that one would get in a good urban school and forty percent of the children are first generation going to school Over 9,000 children are sponsored fully for their educa… for their entire education And we have medical activity going on across Tamil Nadu in a big way There are many other aspects, which I don’t want to go on listing For all this to happen, it needs a certain financial thing Now, if I come to you with a begging bowl, you will say, “Why have you come to me with a begging bowl?” If I earn my own money, you are saying, “Why are you earning your own money?” What is the problem here? What is the problem? Only thing is I have not come to you as a client Is that the only problem you have? I want you to know the people who are working in the Foundation, most of them – some of them are here, they are doctors, engineers, accountants – they have quit top, high-paying jobs in their life and they are serving for free, all right? Thousands of them And you have something against them! Please (Laughs)! It’s not about me because I don’t do all that work People are doing all that work, including the website and the commerce Time 156:17 Moderator: So, just for the diversity of opinion, so that… I mean as a moderator I have to ask you… (Background participants requesting answer on women’s rights) Sadhguru: Oh, women’s rights Yes About Shani Shingnapur, see, first of all you have a misunderstanding that Indian temple is a place of prayer Indian temple is not a place of prayer, I want you to know this Different temples were built in different ways for specific purposes Shani Temple is built for occult purposes Occult means… You know what’s occult? What is the Telugu word for occult? (Responses unclear) What is that? What people call as black magic or whatever, you know? There are certain occult practices, where if the occult practices are being done, women in state of pregnancy, in menstrual cycles, it could seriously impact their life, so they said women should not go It was also designed that on a certain day, if the woman in a certain condition, on a full moon day she can go, other days… these are prescriptions, these are not restrictions These are prescriptions; these are not discriminations These are done with a specific intent or now that you are talking about women’s rights, why don’t you fight for the men’s rights? In our temple, the Bhairavi Temple that we have, men are not allowed inside the sanctum Why don’t you stand up (Laughs) and fight for that? I will tell you why they are not allowed That temple is only for the women Men are not allowed Why? Is it a discrimination? It is not about discrimination; it is a certain dimension of life If you go by this crude sense of equality, you will harm the women immensely Time 158:11 There are millions of temples open to everybody Suddenly, why discrimination will come in one temple? What are you talking about? This is not a culture which discriminated against women There are more female deities in this country than male deities Every village you go, there is an Amman Temple, there is a Devi temple and you think it’s discrimination? These are very rudimentary ideas picked up from the West You have not seen this culture You have not understood the profoundness with which it’s run Unfortunately, because of fifteen, twenty generations of poverty, we’ve kind of mixed it up and made a mess out of it – that is a different matter Moderator: So, before I move on to another person, and he’ll probably be the last person, before I move on to you, are the people there done with that particular question or is there any further question on that particular issue? (Response unclear) I mean for diversity opinion I need to choose somebody from here So, I mean, unless you don’t have a… unless you don’t have a further point on the same issue, I’ll proceed So could somebody please give him the mic? Participant: Namaskaram Sadhguru… (Background – participants requesting follow up from Joe) Moderator: So, if Joe has a follow up, then please proceed (Sadhguru laughs, and some moans of dissent in the background) I can’t help it I mean, if he is not satisfied with the same issue he should be… Sadhguru: (Laughs) All right Participant (Joe): Sir, this crude sense of knowledge that you are talking about is the knowledge that’s coming from the Supreme Court of the country Sadhguru: Who is… Who is speaking, hmm? Participant (Joe): Sir, this crude sense of knowledge that you say is the knowledge that’s coming from the Supreme Court of the country Sadhguru: Arey! No, no, please understand No, no, no, please listen to me (Overlapping conversation) Participant (Joe): You are… Sir, you are still not addressing the point that who are you and I sitting here to make prescriptions for women and say that this is harmful for you (Sadhguru laughs) hence don’t do it or this is not harmful and you shouldn’t do it

Sadhguru: All right! Time 160:02 Participant (Joe): It is not up for you and I to do it If… If it’s harmful and they still want to do it, they are free to do it, right You say that what people want to do in their bedroom, it’s an individual choice If women want to enter it, they want to enter it, who are us to stop? Sadhguru: See, you don’t have… you ask a question, please… You please ask a question, I’m not that dumb that a question needs to be explained to me You ask a question Participant (Joe): You didn’t answer it the first time hence… Sadhguru: You asked a question again, let me answer this, right? The question is – who are you to tell the ladies whether they should go to this or not? Participant (Joe): No, I’m saying they should have the option I’m saying they should have the option… Sadhguru: All right! Moderator: Just to give a similar example, Sir, alcohol is… Sadhguru: I got it! There are hundreds of temples in the country where men cannot enter So, if men say… Participant (Joe): There is a history There is a history of discrimination that… Time 180:50 Sadhguru: That is a different matter See, you are mixing up two things There is unfortunate history of discrimination on all levels, that’s a different matter, that has to be settled in a different way But when a specific aspect comes, if you want to rule out all the subtler aspects of life and just say this is it Anyway, let me tell you this This, I am on camera, let me tell you this, okay Supreme Court is there to interpret the constitution It cannot create a new constitution It doesn’t matter what are the powers of the court, it cannot create a new constitution It is only there to interpret the law the way it is Is… Am I right? You are all lawyers Hello? Participant (Joe): That’s debatable That’s debatable Sadhguru: When you debate that, there is going to be lots of problems because every pressure point, you know, people will apply, every motivated group will push for their own laws If you create enough ruckus, some law, new law will happen This should not happen It is essentially within the framework of the constitution everything should happen In the framework of the constitution, there are laws where there are public places and there are private temples and private places of worship – how it should be done there, is left to them It is for them to decide how it happens Is it happening simply because of a discrimination against a gender? If it is so, it must be struck down absolutely But if there are other aspects to it, if you think you cannot consider anything else, then it’s ridiculous It becomes ridiculous It’s like saying, “Don’t I have the right to enter the Ladies Toilet?” What nonsense is this? Do you need a law? You just need sense that you don’t go there (Applause) Moderator: Joe, is your question answered? Like or should I… Participant (Joe): No It’s not answered, but that’s okay Sadhguru: (Laughs) It’s not answered? Shall we answer Mr. Joe? I’m okay Participant (Joe): There’s a difference between a man not allowed to enter a women’s temp… a women’s toilet and you using the same analogy… Sadhguru: See, I am not saying he is not allowed A man who is a man will not enter That’s all I said (Cheering) Participant (Joe): Sir, that’s a really stupid analogy that you are saying So we are here discussing the question of women’s entry to temples and your concept is they are not allowed… Sadhguru: Yes, Sir Please, Sir The problem, Sir… you… Mr. Joe, you do not know the culture of this nation, you’re talking simply activism without knowing the culture of this nation (Overlapping conversation) Participant (Joe): Because I’m Catholic, right? Time 183:22 Sadhguru: Because in this country, in this culture, the idea of discrimination never arose I want you to understand even before other countries ever thought of even giving franchise to the woman, this country did not even debate whether woman should have voting rights or not It’s simply there because in our culture, we never thought so (Applause) So, the discrimination… Exploitation is there, I want you to understand there is exploitation, there is no necessary discrimination Exploitation is not just of the woman, anybody who is weaker than you, people are exploiting, whether it is a man, woman or child Why do you think everybody is beating the children? Just simply because they are small Not because they have a right to do it So, anything which is weaker than them, they are exploiting, not just women Unfortunately, women have also been… taken a much amount of beating in terms of exploitation but do not misunderstand exploitation and discrimination in a fundamental way Discrimination is a different aspect Exploitation is a different aspect Moderator: I think Joe, we can agree to disagree here and let’s move on (Sadhguru Laughs) There’s one last question (Background interjection____(Unclear)) From the back, from the back, can the mic be given to him? Can you take and then one last question… Time 184:44 Participant: Yeah, yeah, okay Yeah Good afternoon So, society is celebrating legalization of homosexuality when it can’t act even accept inter-caste marriages Sadhguru: What? Participant: Society is celebrating legalization of homosexuality when it can’t even accept

inter-caste marriages and a… Sadhguru: See, the thing is… Participant: Sadhguru, being a science student, I have a small question Sadhguru: No, let’s finish this, no Please Participant: No, no, there is something (Laughter) Sadhguru: I thought… One person one question, I thought Time 185:16 Moderator: So, can you please answer it one by one, (Overlapping conversation) so then there is no confusion Questioner: To maintain… In this evolution, to maintain the genetic ___(Unclear), the sex or marriage should happen between different groups of people and different communities But due to this inter-caste thing which is in our society, the marriages are happening between the same community, that is the same caste people which leads to the… Sadhguru: We got the question Please sit down We got the question Questioner: And sir you have done Rally for… Save for Rivers… Sadhguru: No, leave that, leave that, please ____(Unclear)… Questioner: Please do… remove this inter-caste technique in this society, sir Sadhguru: Okay So, this is… this is related to Joe’s question in a way, in the sense – see, we are… we are… we must understand this, unfortunately… unfortunately most human beings are in this condition, if they find somebody who are little weaker than them, they will see how to extract something out of them, how to dominate them, how to do these things This is coming to you from your childhood, from your school, that you want to be number one, you want to be number one, parents are telling you this, everybody is telling you this, so always want to be on top of somebody So with this if a blacksmith thinks… a goldsmith thinks a blacksmith is inferior to him, unfortunately, though a blacksmith’s work is more useful than a goldsmith’s work for a… making of a society So like this simple professional differences we’ve made it into horrible discriminations in this country because this is a ancient culture, lived in the same place for thousands of years, people learnt how to organize their exploitation against each other They managed to organize this So, in this context we must understand unless human beings evolve to a place that you do not exploit other people weaknesses, discrimination will not go You can talk as much as you want, it will not go! For thousands of years it’s not gone Time 187:22 One thing about the caste system is, it was basically a professional division which turned out to be a very discriminatory process over a period of time Now, largely this professional division is going away because people come, now we don’t know what caste you are it doesn’t matter, you’re becoming a lawyer, all right? You are not a waqeel, waqeel, waqeel kind of caste system You something and you’re becoming a lawyer Somebody can become an engineer So this transference of knowledge through family systems are gone, so in that context caste has become irrelevant Right now the caste still exist much more strongly in the rural community than in the urban community because that is the only social security most people have Something goes wrong with my life, I can only go back to my caste people If I go to somebody, they are not going to help me So this is unfortunately the social security system that they have, which is exploited again in so many different ways Unless we develop a universal social security system in this country – that every human being has a net to fall back on, caste will not go Once the universal sec… social security comes, you will see caste will naturally die a death You… You cannot… You don’t even have to fight it, it’ll just go away Once this social security is there for the human being… The reason why it’s gone in educated and well-to-do people is because they have their own security They don’t have to go back to their caste But the poorer people in rural India, for them the only security is their caste, their clan You can only go back to your mama or your somebody else or whatever else You can’t go to a strange person and ask for help So we have to make the society, where every human being feels secure in the country Only then you can remove this, otherwise you cannot remove People are thinking this is just based on discrimination No, discrimination is coming because wherever somebody is weaker, somebody is exploiting them This is not caste, this is not gender, wherever, whoever they can get they will exploit, all right? Time 189:30 Why women and children take the beating is because they are little physically weaker, that’s the only reason, not because they are against the women or against the children Simply because we have still not evolved out of this that we will treat the strong and the weak the same way This has not into us, this will not come because you fight something, this has to come by evolving the society, by evolving individual human beings otherwise it’ll not happen (Applause) Time 190:00 Questioner: Thank you for the answer, sir

So the team has been signa… I mean the team has been signaling to us that we should have finished this about ten, fifteen minutes ago (Sadhguru Laughs) That being said, there seem to be a lot of interested people who have been raising their hands up If you are fine with some more questions, we can proceed otherwise we can… it’s completely your choice Sadhguru: If you are okay, I am okay, sir You are the boss today Questioner: Sir it’s… it’s your decision, sir… Sadhguru: No, you are the moderator Questioner: …because they have been signaling… Sadhguru: If you say answer the questions I will, if you say “please leave”, I will leave Moderator: So what we can do is we can three final questions Questioner: So from all three sides? Moderator: Can the mike be passed on to the back rows there? Questioner: Hello Moderator: Back rows there on the left Questioner: Yeah, I will pass it on once I’m done with my question Sadhguru: Please speak no Once you have the microphone please ask the question Time 190:51 Participant (Srikari): Hello Sadhguru, I’m Srikari and I’m a… I’m running an NGO for under privileged children right now And I’ve (Applause) sort of decided for myself that this is what I want to dedicate my life for, which is serving the society So I have three questions for you The first is, being a social entrepreneur yourself, how do you think I should prepare myself for the rest of my life, to be dedicated to this cause? And second thing you’ve mentioned a lot of issues for example malnutrition and there is intolerance and there is so many issues So, which issue do you think that our generation should target in order to get the best effect out of it? And thirdly do you have any sort of program that can help our students who are doing this kind of an effort because we don’t have the kind of power or exposure to reach the kind of level that you can (Applause)? Sadhguru: If… If any of you have … (Talks Aside – Please sit down)… If any of you have as she said, if you have similar intentions that you want to take up a social cause and make it happen, well you asked me “which should we take it up?” In my focus right now is nourishment, education, ecology, these are the three things which are crucial for this nation If these three things happen, all the other problems will get sorted out by themselves If you start attacking small, small problems which are in the country which are plenty – not one or two, they are in hundreds – is small, small issues which we are picking up, believe me you will not solve the problem, you will only have the satisfaction of fighting for something Don’t fight for something, we have enough fight going on, we’ve seen enough fights, forever It’s important this country must be well nourished, fundamental education must happen, and ecologically we must take some quick steps because these is the… this is the area which we cannot reverse very easily It may take decades or even centuries sometimes to turn it back depending upon the kind of damage we cause Time 193:12 These three dimensions if we take care, all the other issues that you are mentioning, many other issues, small, small issues, I am not saying they are not important but if you take of those… take up those causes right now, you will not have a good foundation but you will build a super structure which will anyway collapse after sometime So these are three fundamentals If anybody who has such intentions, if you want you come to us, free of cost, we will train you for a… one or two or three months Right now we are… somebody mentioned Rally for Rivers, we are training hundreds of youth for over six months about the ecological aspect, how they can take it up in their own area Full depth and dimension of the problem and how they should handle it, how they should deal with the governments, how should… they should deal with the people and the situation on the ground, how to manage this, like this So for these three aspects – if you are taking up nourishment or education or ecology, we can train you Above all, if you are going into social activity, I’ve seen so many people, particularly ini… Indians who are settled in United States, after working there for ten, fifteen years when they’ve made a certain amount of money, quite a few of them get this urge they want to come back to their village and do something I am telling you almost ninety percent of them return absolutely frustrated, not able to doing (do?) anything and lost their money, lost their job, this kind of situation, simply because India is a complex thing to deal with Time 194:41 One has to be in a certain state of… first thing is to understand, another thing is how you are If you are the kind who going to get freaked and disturbed by (Laughs) everything happening negatively around you, then you should not get into it because they’re going to freak the hell out of you on a daily basis

It doesn’t matter how much work you do, you will only face abuse and accusations and people will file cases against you, they will protest against you, all kinds of things So it’s very important you make yourself in such a way, what you want in your life, what you want to create, in which way you want to make a difference, that is more important than everything else Everyday volunteers who’re working for us, come up to me and say, “Sadhguru, I can’t work with this person This person is horrible, I can’t do this.” So I tell them, “See, in this world, this is how people are, like this, like that, like that, like that, this is how they are If you think what you are doing is of such importance, you work with these people If you want to work with ideal people, go to heaven and today!” Yes, you will have to work with all sorts of people otherwise you can’t do this Time 196:00 Questioner: So… The… Yeah, so the individual in the red t-shirt is been asking since sometime Then we’ll move to the right That’ll be the last one, the one (Sounds like – who wave?) will be the last one Questioner: So, Sadhguru we have two questions Sadhguru: One at a time, I am a simple guy Questioner: Yeah, so first I’ll ask and then one more So firstly (Laughter), you said that from your years of practice and looking at people, you can just look at somebody and tell their past, present and future Now we’d really appreciate it if you could look at me and tell my past and present (Cheering/Applause), anything (Sadhguru Laughs) Sadhguru: No, I am not an astrologer for you Questioner: Astrologer would be somebody who sees the future, I am asking you only to see the past and tell me Sadhguru: No, no, astrologers also talk about the past to get the market oriented, all right? I am not in that profession Time 196:43 Questioner: So sir when you say you are a mystic, what exactly do you mean? When your first answer to his question about first impressions was, that you can see the past and the present while all of us, most of us here wouldn’t be able to do the same thing So then fulfill his claim that you can tell us about his… about his past or his present but not withstanding that, my question is different, my question is that you are… you’ve spoken about how you believe that like we must live in harmony with nature etcetera You told us that we’ve come here and we’ve taken over the land, which belong to snakes Sadhguru: No, that is true everywhere Questioner: Correct, correct Taking you to the question that… Moderator: Just… I am sorry to stop you Sir, in case you are not comfortable answering, then… Sadhguru: No, no, I am okay with any question, it’s all right! Questioner (Ankita): A lot of the infrastructure… Sadhguru: Just make the question smaller and more… Questioner (Ankita): Yeah, thirty seconds A lot of the infrastructure of… Sadhguru: Thirty seconds is a long question, five seconds Questioner (Ankita): Twenty… Twenty seconds, twenty seconds A lot of the infrastructure of the Isha Foundation has been built on elephant corridors… Sadhguru: Oh! Really? Questioner(Ankita): …something which both the National Green Tribunal as well as the High Courts have admitted to without the requisite permissions We tell you, this goes against the rule of law which you stand for, this goes against living in harmony with species… some… both of which you’ve spoken right here at Nalsar So if you could clarify regarding that (Applause) Time 197:55 Sadhguru: (Laughs) okay There is a… There is a fan following for that also So right now, all of you, those of you who are clapping and screaming, listen to me, you also ma’am, what’s your name? Hmm? Questioner (Ankita): Ankita Sadhguru: Sanchita Participant: Ankita Sadhguru: Ankita Okay Now we’ll do one thing, I don’t know what authority you have to say it’s a elephant corridor Listen, listen, listen, let me finish The state forest departments clearly has submitted to the High Court that this is not a elephant corridor The Wildlife Trust of India has given a clear directive to the NGT that it’s not a elephant corridor, the World Wildlife Fund says that it’s not a elephant corridor but you say it’s a elephant corridor, I don’t know what’s your relationship with the elephants (Few laugh), okay? If you do not understand, right now we’ve put up the map published by the Wildlife Trust of India as to which are the elephant corridors and which are not And elephant corridor is not anywhere in hundred kilometers of where we… where we are You can go look up the map today Now, you can open up your cellphone and look it up now Time 199:16 So, being in a legal profession you’re going to get into, first you must get your facts right, all right (Applause)? And… well, I know where this is coming from, there are some activists who are going on publishing this endlessly, you are reading that social media trash and you’re coming to conclusions Anyway, I want you to know, today if I want, by tomorrow evening I can file hundred cases against you, all kinds of things It’s for you to come out of it in the next twenty years This is the country you are living in, I want you to know So, it doesn’t matter, I will tell you further, for continuously I have been accused of razing

a rainforest Which is that rainforest, where was it? Please show it to me There is no such forests, so they’ve kept quiet now because I asked these questions Then they said we have occupied forest lands Well, Forest Department has dispo… you know senior forest officers from not only Tamil Nadu, from the center came and surveyed the place and said not a little bit of encroachment has happened but people keep writing the same thing Now I am asking you, if you are really interested in justice, you and your friends who are clapping for everything, I will ask you to come, ten, fifteen of you come with cameras, I will give you all the maps, sa… survey maps and revenue maps and forest maps, you walk across We’ll give you total freedom to do the survey, as you want, all right? If… If one inch – not one acre – one inch of forest land is taken, I’ve said this yesterday also, day before yesterday also because (Laughs) I am surprised the same question is being asked, I will leave the country, you will not see me again Is this good enough? Will you do it? Time 201:12 Interviewer: So, we’ll leave one final question, Sadhguru… Sadhguru: No, no, let me finish this, hmm? This is a charge, this is not a question Now, if one little bit is taken, forest land, you will never see me again, you will never hear me again, okay? I’ll be gone Interviewer: Okay Sadhguru: Hey wait, wait (Few laugh) I will tell you, the kind of activism that is happening there, why… I’m… I’m sure many of you may be associated with this, I’m saying this on camera, it can be published, I don’t care what, because I’ve reached a point where death… death threats are every day from these kind of people Why all this is happening is, we are at the tri-junction of the three state borders There are certain people who want to be active in the forests in that area and we’ve become a big problem for them They want us ousted from there, that’s not going to happen in their lifetime Because it’s not just for our interest, I want to make sure such activity doesn’t happen in the forest And we have fought for this, so we’re getting all this flack And for every little thing without knowing facts, being future lawyers you must have little more facts on your hand This is not the way to go to a court, you know? This is not the way to go to a court You must go with facts If you are not looking at being a lawyer as just as a business but as a way of serving people and bringing justice to people, this is not the way to go Time 202:38 I will tell you further You’ve seen the image of Adiyogi? Yes A whole campaign has been made, they showed images of some forest and how it was… entire thing was razed to put-up Adiyogi statue So we put out the Google maps Before we bought the land, how it was, how it is today Today there’s technology, you can’t go on lying forever Once we put up the Google maps they became quiet So, Google maps are of 2006, they said before that there was a forest So I said, “Do one thing, from 1960s, okay, or before I was born, 1940s, you take the revenue map I will give you all the survey numbers in which we are, see what were the crops which are grown, for what taxes people have paid Revenue records are there, Google maps are there, you can’t be just lying to yourself endlessly.” And I will tell you how much prejudice is there, a certain group of people with government officials and the collector comes to visit the Adiyogi statue One official, not a low level official, a mid-level official, says, “They have built a factory shed without permission.” So collector asked, “Where is the factory shed?” He points at Adiyogi and says, “This is the factory shed.” He is surprised, “Is this a factory shed you are saying? This is a monument, they’ve taken permission for a monument.” “No, no, in my opinion this is a factory shed Inside there are metal members and outside there is a metal skin, so it is a factory shed.” Tell me who will call the image of – if there is a image of Adiyogi, can you put it up – who will call this a factory shed? Please look it up Please look it up on the website, you look at the Adiyogi, it is on the Guinness record for the largest face on the planet And now somebody describes this as a factory shed and wants to file a case on us I want you to know who is this person who calls Adiyogi a factory shed and what is the… what is the intention and what is the purpose of such a comment Who they are and what they are motiv… motivated by, you must look at it, yes or know? Please look at it Time 204:51 And I’m telling you, the reason all this has started is because of the tri-junction One mistake we have done, if it is a mistake, I don’t think it’s a mistake personally,

but legally it’s a mistake is – they did not give us a particular officer who was sitting It’s… it’s all become religious in this country A particular officer who was sitting there, does not give us a “No Objection” certificate even though we fulfill all the legalities, for four-and-a-half years Nothing happening – I said, “Go ahead and build.” We had everything else, only one department we don’t have “No Objection” First, why the hell do you have… have an objection when I’m investing and building infrastructure for this country and for the people? What’s your problem? But they have a problem “No Objection” certificate takes four-and-a-half years, and they don’t give an explanation why they have an objection There is not a single reply So I said, “Go ahead and build.” So we built two buildings without that one “No Objection”, using that they filed multiple cases on us But now, the government has given us permission for that also, it’s been regularized, they asked us to pay a penalty, we paid, and we regularized all that There’s not one illegal structure there and we are not on the elephant corridor Please get your facts checked properly (Applause) Interviewer: Okay, one last question, the man in the blue shirt… Time 206:17 Sadhguru: And now that you raised this question – I must finish this – now that you raised this question, and you charged me with this, if what you have said is not true, please go on the social media and say “I’ve been talking rubbish without knowing what are the facts (Cheers & Applause).” Questioner: _____ (Inaudible) Sadhguru: It’s not working, give him the… Questioner: You say that leadership and especially entrepreneurship and enterprises is very much needed for the growth of this nation So how important is it for the youth or a young individual to be a leader and having a bigger vision which is beyond just their own survival but which includes larger well-being and growth of humanity? And if someone takes such responsibility, how a person having such a vision, make himself capable and competent and clear? Thank you Time 207:18 Sadhguru: See (Laughs), in the development of the nation, today we have reached a point in the world where it is not the military prowess of a country, nor is it the political circus that goes on in a country, nor it is the activism and stuff that goes on in the country which decides the well-being of a nation It is the success of the businesses which will determine the well-being of a nation – because we have decided to go market economy Is that the best way to do things? I personally may not think so but that’s not the point, we’ve decided to go that way, we have to make it a success, that’s all there is left to us Every day we can’t be rethinking which system to take on We have to make it a success because we have chosen to be there Now for me to become a business leader or a social leader, what is it that I have to equip myself with? Well, that now famous “Inner Engineering”, that’s the first thing you must do because if you are not equipped to handle various uncertenicy… uncertainties in life, if outside situations are going to determine what happens within you, then you should not enter into that kind of ventures because life will freak the hell out of you You must choose a safe job If you are the kind who is going to be impacted by what’s happening around you, then it is going to be very difficult for you to handle those kind of situations So, first thing in everybody’s life no matter what you’re planning to do, in everybody’s life first thing is to enhance this life (Referring to oneself), then to act in the world If you act in the world before you enhance this life, you will see if you succeed you will suffer, if you fail you will suffer Very important that you bring yourself to a state that your peacefulness, your joyfulness, the pleasantness of who you are is not determined by somebody else or something else If you establish this one thing, you are equipped for life Thank you very much (Applause) Questioner: ___ (Inaudible) Interviewer: We’re done We’re exceeded by… Questioner: It’s just the continuation of this question, it’s not complete, the answer Like if you have done the… you said first step is Inner Engineering if you have done it, I have… Like I’m practicing since three years, so what is the second step? What is the exposure, what is the right kind of education and environment that is needed? First step I’ve heard many times, what is the second step I want to equip myself with that? Sadhguru: That’s a very personal question, we will deal with this personally Thank you (Laughs) Questioner: Okay

Thank you Interviewer: Thank you, sir So, thank you Sadhguru for answering all questions I think we exceeded the limit by around at least 1.5 hours Sadhguru: Oh! Interviewer: So, thank you for patiently answering all questions from all different people And… Sadhguru: Quite explosively, hmm, not patiently! Quite explosively, not patiently Time 210:22 Interviewer: For patiently listening and explosively answering the questions (Laughter) So… I hope the people in the audience experienced an insightful lecture or an insightful conversation, and for individuals who could not otherwise ask, I hope I think you have a social media page? Sadhguru: Yes Interviewer: So, I mean, you could send it there but due to limitations of time, we can’t have… we can’t ask any more questions But I mean, what we did try was to… was that individuals from different… different groups and backgrounds could ask questions So that was our purpose So I think we are done so thank… thank you a lot Sadhguru Sadhguru: Thank you very much