Science on the Sound Series: "Renewable Ocean Energy for North Carolina"

I am Billy edge director of renewable ocean energy here at the coastal studies institute and I like to welcome you all to our fourth in a series of science on the sound I think it’s a great tribute to the local people and the people who are able to tune in to learn more about the science from the people who are actually doing it right here in Maine yo our speaker this evening is dr. Lindsay does dr. Lindsay dubs has a degree PhD in environmental science and engineering from the University of chapel hill and we’re very pleased that she’s here with us to tell us some about the research that she’s doing and renewable ocean energy and what it means to the state of North Carolina and our citizens here so with that dr. Lindsay dubs thank you very um thank you thank you everyone who is able to make it this evening and thank you for those who are tuning in to the live stream can everyone hear me okay all right great so my plan for this evening is to first explain what I mean by renewable ocean energy and then I’m going to touch upon the global ocean energy resources renewable ocean energy resources and how we might be able to meet some of our energy demands with those resources and then I’m going to tell you more about the renewable ocean energy program for North Carolina and this program is really a lot of different researchers conducting interdisciplinary research so I just want to clarify right right from the start that this is not all my research so first renewable energy is available in the waters of the Earth’s oceans in a few different forms and those are listed here first there is marine hydro kinetic energy so marine Hydra kinetic energy is the energy in the in ocean water movements this includes water movements associated with waves tidal currents and ocean currents and they can be that energy can be harnessed by a suite of different devices another form of marine hydro kinetic energy that I’ve kind of differentiated here takes advantage of the temperature differences between the warm surface waters of the ocean that are heated by the sun’s energy and cold deep waters and the technology that harnesses this form of energy is called ocean thermal energy conversion or otech there’s also energy available available in the salinity concentration differences between saline ocean water and fresh water draining from land and salinity gradient technologies harnish harness osmotic forces as the salinity concentration difference between the two water masses equilibrates so I’m mostly going to be focusing my talk on this first group here the Marine hydro kinetic energy in the movement of waves and title and ocean currents because that is what the renewable ocean energy program for North Carolina is focusing on although there is some possibility that we might also shift some focus to offshore wind in the near future as I said there are suite of different types of technologies that can harness the energy available in the movement of ocean waters but because there are so many quickly evolving technologies out there they’ve been divided into classes so the class is here you see are those designated by the European marine energy center and as you can see each of these different types of classes moves in relation to water the water movement in waves in different ways while the device is within these different classes are evolving quickly the classes themselves are also evolving very quickly for instance these last two classes the bulge in rotating mass energy converters are new classes that have just been added this past year in each one of these classes there are prototypes of

the energy devices being tested either with models or in laboratories worldwide and the first six classes are actually producing energy for the grid somewhere in the world current energy devices similarly move in all different ways in relation to title and ocean currents you may notice that a couple of these current energy devices look a lot like wind turbines again there are several different devices in each one of these device classes for instance the horizontal axis turbines can be set up in this way as pictured where it’s kind of a series of turbines along a gate or there’s another setup called an eco pod where are an EVO pod where the horizontal axis turbine is actually on a buoy on a single buoy and just to provide a little bit of a reference for scale now you know how these devices move in relation to water movements and as far as scale this is a ocean power technology power buoy or opt power buoy and you can see here some people getting the device ready for deployment and then the device installed in the water so this buoy is now perpendicular to its orientation in the first picture these opt power buoys are already installed in Scotland England and off the coast of Oregon so why are we even interested in renewable ocean energy in the first place why should we pursue this the first reason is that there’s a substantial resource out there hopefully you’ve all witnessed firsthand the energy available in the oceans you felt waves crash on to you on the shore you felt the sand and water pull our recede back to the ocean you’ve also in some cases probably felt the tides going through Oregon Inlet take your boat or your kayak I guess most people don’t kayak through organ is loop that date your vote through organ Inlet faster than it could go itself are with the motor itself but the energy available in the Earth’s oceans has also been quantified on a global scale and it’s really kind of a coarse estimate in these two figures you can see wave power and tidal range power across the world’s oceans and the warmer colors mean that there is more energy available and down here you can see this is the global electricity demand in 2011 and then the theoretical resources for waves tidal range and ocean currents you can see that there’s a lot of energy available out there and definitely enough to surpass our demand but it’s really important to be practical practical and keep in mind that all not all of that energy can actually be harnessed these devices that i showed you are not a hundred percent efficient so a lot of them in the best-case scenario can harness about thirty percent of the available energy also you may notice that some of these resources are in really deep waters and so it’s not technologically possible right now to put devices in those deep waters also there are already people and other organisms that are using the ocean environment so we can’t just cover the whole ocean with point absorbers and attenuators nonetheless renewable ocean energy is 10 really supply a substantial amount of power to meet our energy demands another reason that we should pursue renewable ocean energy is that it makes sense to locate sources of energy near the demand for energy part of the reason for that is that power and electricity is lost in transmission coastal areas are more often than not the locus of energy demand in a study by McGranahan and others they found that ten percent of the world’s population and thirteen percent of the world’s urban population are located along coastlines less than 10 meters above sea level whereas coastlines only comprise two percent of the world’s land area another reason to pursue additional sources of energy

whether renewable or not is that the global population is growing so you can see that from 1999 to 2011 in 12 years there was there were 1,000,000,000 additional people added to the world’s population and there’s expected to be a billion more added by 2024 and so their demand for energy the demand for energy is also increasing you can see these are the main sources of electricity in the world right now or over time to borrow an anecdote from Thomas Friedman and hot flat and crowded if the next 1 billion people used electricity equivalent to a 60-watt light bulb for four hours it would require 10,000 megawatts more electricity production and that’s equivalent to building about 17 new 600 megawatt coal-fired power the implicit the implications for relying solely on non-renewable energy could be the topic of a whole additional talk but I’m not really going to go into that here there are people and organizations who are working to meet this growing demand for energy all over the world and with regard to renewables in North Carolina alone we have the North Carolina solar center working on it we have NC green power unc institute of marine science has really been very instrumental in studying offshore wind resources and i’m sure there are a lot of other organizations that i’m not even aware of working on renewable energy for our state but as i said before here at CSI we’re focusing i’m marine Heydrich kinetic energy so I wanted to tell you about our program this is our mission and more specifics about the program it was created by the North Carolina State Legislature and it dictates that a partnership between UNC coastal studies institute North Carolina State University North Carolina A&T University and UNC Charlotte be formed to conduct research to conceptualize design construct operate and market new and innovative technologies so we can’t just take an off-the-shelf technology and plop it in the ocean we need to be innovating here with this program we’re encouraged to leverage federal and private funding and this is an interdisciplinary effort I’m just going to allow you to read the mission of the program they’re one of the first tasks that our program has focused on and is still focusing on is assessing the resources available off the North Carolina coast you saw the global resource maps but as I said they’re at a very coarse resolution so we need a finer resolution idea of the resources available and also their spatial extent the first assessment that was done was a tidal current resource assessment conducted by Marjorie Overton North Carolina State University ngu also at North Carolina State University doctors overturning you modeled the energy available in all of North Carolina’s in inlets using a program called add circ and add Sark is a highly developed program for solving equations of the motion of fluids on a rotating earth it was developed by a research team that includes Rick ludic from unc institute of marine science and brian blatant from Renzi or the Renaissance competing Sun computing Center for those who don’t know tidal streams are high velocity sea currents created by the periodic movement of ode of ocean caused by the gravitational pull of the moon and sun in relation to the earth tidal current energy for that reason is really persistent and predictable however most tidal stream power converters require a minimum flow speed of 0 point 5 to 1 m/s with an ideal speed between 1.5 and 3.5 meters per second and as you can see here the the top five most viable inlets in North Carolina Oregon Hatteras ocracoke masonboro and Cape Fear River don’t really meet that ideal flow speed

requirement and for that reason we are not really pursuing title current energy for this program until technological advances may be allow for lower flow speeds to be harnessed just rest’ recently Billy edge and Kevin Gamal who’s from the Renaissance competing Center who are both in-house here at the coastal studies institute partnered with Brian blatant at Renzi and Jeff Hanson at the US Army Corps of Engineers field research facility in duck to conduct a historical wave assessment for North Carolina and beyond the wave hindcast basically predicts wave conditions height and period using a computer model and observed Winfield’s they calculated the wave height and period for all of these individual points seeing here for a 20 year period and hopefully a 10 year period and additional ten years will be calculated eventually that data was then used to calculate power density and you can see that there is variable power density near shore to the North Carolina coast ranging from about fifteen two fifteen thousand eight hundred watts per square meter per year so it’s very highly spatially variable they also found that the resource off the North Carolina coast is not nearly as substantial as off other US Coast like Oregon and Washington Alaska but North Carolina is still in a really good position to pursue wave energy because we have this large area of shallow water in which wave devices could be deployed so it still is a resource of interest to us the next assessment is the Gulf Stream current resource assessment and this is an ongoing assessment the animation on the left was provided by john bain and caroline laucher at unc institute of marine science they show it shows sea surface temperature off the southeast coast of the US and a feature that I hope that you notice in this animation is this is dark red color that’s the Gulf Stream and it’s dark red because the sea surface temperature of the Gulf Stream is much higher than the surrounding waters as you can see the location of the Gulf Stream over time varies quite a bit at this particular location and so dr. bean and Caroline laucher interpreted data that was modeled by rowing hey from NC State University to look at the temporal variability of that particular point over an angle over several years and over the course of one year so as you can see there is a great deal of variability at that one location and that variability is caused by the Gulfstream’s meandering not because there’s an actual decrease in the gulf streams power at any point in time so Mike miglia who it works here at UNC coastal studies institute and is a doctoral student at unc institute of marine science is collecting gulf stream current data using an acoustic doppler current profiler which is pictured here and basically this a DCP is placed on the seabed and it allows us to record the current velocities and directions through the whole entire water column so this information will hopefully be used to verify the models and the interpretation and mike is also then comparing that to a long series of radar data that he has about sea surface temperatures and he’s also conducting transects to kind of look at what the Gulfstream’s spatial extent is over a larger area not just this one location so far based on the radar data and models it does seem like the Gulf Stream resource would be a really great source of energy but we still have a lot of work to do to identify the exact location that would be feasible for that another direction of the renewable ocean energy program for North Carolina is to address challenges to renewable energy and to marine hydro kinetic energy specifically the first challenge is cost you saw the size of that device the opt power buoy and that’s probably one of the smaller

devices there are devices that are actually larger than that so there are really high capital costs for constructing that device there are really high costs for installing it and then there are high costs for maintaining devices especially in the harsh ocean environment these costs mean that the price for renewable energy in general and especially for marine hydro kinetic energy are not cost competitive with non renewables and you can kind of get a scent sense of the range of costs from this figure here on the top the non renewable energy costs are this orange bar and you can see that they extend from about three to ten cents per kilowatt hour the the maximum cost of all of the renewables far exceeds the cost of non renewables and for Ocean Energy even the minimum exceeds the cost of the non renewables another challenge is that many forms of renewable energy especially wind and wave energy are very intermittent there’s a lot of variation and this bottom figure illustrates that so this shows wave height and wave power density over time for a particular location and as you can see there is a lot of variability that’s a problem when you’re trying to have a consistent source of energy to other challenges are just limitations in knowledge one of them understanding of coastal processes and forces for device development and testing and the other one is information regarding the potential conflicts synergies and viability of marine hydro kinetic energy and other renewables the renewable ocean energy program researchers are attempting to address or at least contribute to solving some of these challenges or yeah helping to solve these challenges in a variety of different ways and I’m now going to tell you a little bit about each of these different research directions magnetic your power take-off ocean compressed air energy storage smooth particle hydrodynamic modeling a wave energy test center and some assessments related to the environment public policy and economics the first research direction that I want to focus on is power take-off so one thing that is in common between all forms of marine hydro kinetic energy and also wind energy is that they need to capture kinetic energy and turn it into work and so that’s what a power take-off system is for here is an example of how a system typically works the low speed unidirectional motion of the energy device whether if you again wave wind or current energy needs to be sped up to drive an electric generator in the end and so that can be done in a variety of different ways one of them is gearboxes and that’s kind of the situation here excuse me and that’s what’s used in the majority of existing wind turbines right now we’ve are we already have experience that shows that that is a not a very reliable type of power take-off system and that it could be worse in the marine environment also the maintenance of these types of power take up systems are difficult and costly the other two options are direct drive generators and those are better options but both of those options traditionally use a large quantity of rare earth magnets the problem with rare earth magnets is as the name implies they’re rare and they are used in a lot of different technologies they’re using your cell phones they’re used in computers they’re used by the military in large quantities and now they’re being used in renewable energy as well so there the demand is consistently growing and most of the mining and processing of those rare earth magnets is done in China and China has a huge demand for a lot of those technologies so so they’re kind of holding on to the rare earth magnets more and more and we don’t really have another source for them and it will take a long time for the u.s. to start mining and processing rare earth magnets itself the last company that did mine for rare earth magnets in the u.s. stopped mining for them because of the environmental

considerations mining causes really acidic waste water radioactive waste water and air emissions so the solution offered by a research team with the ocean energy program from UNC Charlotte in North Carolina State University came up with this solution magnetic gearing using ferrite magnets so ferrite magnets welfare a is a lot of much more abundant material and that means that the cost of the fair a is much lower the problem with ferrite is that it doesn’t have a strong a field strength so it’s not as magnetic so this team has come up with this unique topology or a topology similar to this which is basically just the geometry of the layout of the magnets to help improve that flux density so this power take-off system basically provides that direct drive without the rare earth magnets so how does this dress challenges I already said it’s a lower cost more environmentally benign and it’s also more efficient and reliable than its counterpart which again translates to lower costs so that means that there’s potential for increasing cost competitiveness of wind weave and current energy as I said before another challenge is using intermittent energy sources to provide a consistent baselet of power so base load power is the power required to meet the minimal demands of customers and so in this particular example I’m sorry it’s not very pretty but you can see this is the blue line is the Daily wave power generated and the daily electricity demand is in red so both are very variable and the way that base load power can be supplied with that intermittent resource is by storage so at periods of time where the wave power sorry the wave energy wave power harnessed it exceeds the daily electricity demand that that energy can be stored and then pulled upon at a time when demand exceeds the the power generated by the devices and this one of one option for storing this is compressed air energy storage or 0 case or sorry case no Oh in it yet case on land is currently being used by several several power utilities and basically they use caverns left behind when miners finish mining and clearing salt domes and essentially what happens is the air is sent into is pressurized into these salt caverns and when there’s an excess of power being generated then at times when that power is needed it can be released and be released through a turbine but then again generates power all the one of the issues with this case storage system is that it requires very large areas to store that air and there’s also a risk of blowouts so the solution that a team from North Carolina State University and UNC Charlotte came up with is ocean compressed air energy storage or that they’re investigating I should say it didn’t come up with necessarily but basically in an okay system it’s a little bit different than the case system because the air that’s being stored is being stored under water so you can make use of the hydrostatic pressure and for that reason you don’t need as large a volume for the storage and you also don’t run the risk of blowouts as much so a okays has the potential just salt saw solve a challenge of renewable energy by first of all improving upon case technologies by utilizing that hydrostatic pressure available under water and also it can solve the intermittency problems associated with many forms of renewable energy thereby providing baseload power so a town specific to marine hydro

kinetic energy is that water movements in the ocean are highly complex and dynamic and they operate at a very fine spatial scale and so a solution to this was to model at the scale of water particles to better computational design tools for marine hydro kinetic energy and this research effort has been led by Billy edge Robert Darren bull and Kevin gamal but it’s also been it’s really interesting to watch this research progress because it’s always a big group of students that come from all over the world here for workshops the last two years that’s been fun to have them in-house here to UM to solve this problem and just to give you an idea of what this animation is showing its showing a surge converter if you remember that type of device that operates like this in a wave field and these two different search converters have different buoyant seas and so it’s a way to optimize the design of the device to capture harness the optimal amount are the maximum amount of energy another challenge with regard to limited understanding of the complexity of the ocean environment and how harsh it can be when actually deploying structures into it is that there are very few places for devices to be tested in the u.s. there are several places for devices to be tested in Europe but not in the US and that testing is really essential to not only optimize devices to harness as much energy as possible but also to be able to address some of the issues that is presented by the harsh environment in the ocean and assess interactions with the environment ecology and human uses a solution offered by the renewable energy program partnership with Jeanette spear and the town of Nags Head is to offer a shallow water research platform at off of Jeanette spear and so far we’ve already had one successful deployment so I’m going to show you a video that John McCord did that shows a deploy our first deployment of a device that was conducted in 2011 the UNC coastal studies institute in partnership with resolute marine energy and Jeannette spear recently conducted a field test of a wave energy conversion device and the waters just off the end of the pier my name is cliff Gowdy and I’m here working with resolute marine energy we’re out on Jeanette spear and hopefully today or soon thereafter will be getting this device in the water and we’ll begin our experiments measuring wave power behind me is a wave energy converter and there’s many different types this one is a surge type device that captures the energy from the surge motion of waves going back and forth in shallow water this device captures that energy and turns it into power what we’re seeing is fairly high efficiencies well above being able to capture fifty percent of the energy that’s coming coming by and depending upon the shoreline where you’re at and what the conditions are you know the average wave energy may be 10 kilowatts per meter of shoreline so if you do the math you can see there’s a quite a bit of energy being even if you capture just half of that you know quite a bit of energy you can put a roll of these along the shoreline bye interest expressed by additional renewable energy companies to test off of Jeanette spear there are plans to put

a demonstration okay system underneath Jeanette spear this spring and we have applied for permits for two additional tests verse that are outside of the shadow of the pier footprint of the pier both offshore in a longshore the Jeanette spear platform has also been really useful for testing instrumentation and collecting data and that’s been really important for overall understanding of the marine environment the local marine environment for marine hydrokinetic energy to be successful in the long run we knew we need to know how it might interact with the environment and ecology and existing uses of the coastal ocean so that any conflicts can be minimized and any synergies can be maximized we also need to carefully site installations to avoid ecologically sensitive and culturally and recreationally important areas and so the next project was environmental and stakeholder assessment and basically we were first identifying the potential conflicts and synergies in the coastal ocean and then it’s examining the spatial extent of those potential conflicts and this was a research team that many of these people worked on the a similar assessment for wind energy offshore of North Carolina so they were great resources to have but the the conflicts and synergies are a little bit different with marine hydrokinetic versus wind energy so you can see this is one of the maps that was produced from that study these are areas important to life histories of fishes coastal birds and seabirds sea turtles and marine mammals you can see there are a lot of areas that are important to those different organisms so really it doesn’t mean that we can’t necessarily put devices in those areas and explore harnessing energy from those areas it just means that we need to be sensitive and make sure that we understand what all of the risks might be and weigh them against the risks of other forms of energy so the specific and special considerations that we identified and assess the risks posed to are mostly shown here so marine mammals are one of those especially right whales right Wells passed by the North Carolina coast and there were only approximately 300 of them living and as those of us who live in the area no commercial and recreational fisheries are an important economic and cultural part of this community endangered species such as sea turtles and olenik sturgeon need to be considered and important habitat areas like hard bottom and Sargassum this is a picture that John took actually in water just off of Morehead City of a coral reef system and also I should mention cultural resources like shipwrecks are another really important thing that we need to consider and avoid when we’re sighting devices so because marine hunter kinetic energy is a nascent industry we know very little about how it might interact how the devices might interact with the environment or how it will affect different environmental processes so we’re partnering with some other projects to try and determine how those particular projects will affect the marine environment ecology and the the human use conflicts are kind of a different story that I’ll talk about in a minute so for the gulfstream energy project the one thing that we’re doing with that project is coordinating and communicating for siting purposes so we don’t want to be taking all of our data from a place that is went within a protected area or right on top of a shipwreck we’re also beginning to monitor marine mammal abundance and distribution with hydrophones that will be installed very close by to where the ADCP is located we’re also monitoring Sargassum distribution so sorry awesome is pictured right up here it’s a macro algae that is carried in the Gulf Stream current sometimes we find it washed up on the beaches here but it’s really important to productivity and nutrient

cycling in the Gulf Stream and the open ocean and it’s also an important fish community or the habitat for a fish community that’s protected so we’re monitoring that distribution associated communities and then we are beginning an experiment to look at how changes in hydrodynamics perhaps introduced by Gulfstream turbines will affect the product the processes the nutrient cycling happening in the Sargassum use another project is in partnership with the okies project and an intern from the field site law residents key is helping in part with this project she we are building colonization plates and looking at what types of critters are going to grow on those plates on any type of surface that we put into the marine environment there are potential for synergies with that because colonization means that you are creating more habitat and so what types of materials might maximize that habitat creation so what we’re interested in in partnership with the ok’s project and all other projects that will be demonstrated at the wave energy test center we’re going to be monitoring the sound emissions from those devices we will be monitoring colonization of their surfaces and also how they change sediment dynamics another important question to consider is how viable is marine hydrokinetic in North Carolina and one of the ways to address that is economic analysis because economics and costs are so important to the viability of different types of energy this analysis has allowed researchers working in circular and jody Corollas to construct a flexible cost model that allows anyone to examine how cost changes with different variables and the variables are listed here it’s not just the ocean resource but also the scale and scope of the installation how long it can be kept in place policies and also these costs that are more well-defined Capwell capital and operational costs not necessarily maintenance costs they basically have concluded that improvements in several areas will be necessary to make marine hydrokinetic competitive with wind and solar technologies but then to improve upon the viability that we felt that it was also necessary to look at public policy and to involve stakeholders so that analysis outcomes of the public policy analysis were that basically all of the policies are based on the oil and gas industry and the risks associated with oil and gas exploration versus marine hydrokinetic are far greater but those associated with marine hydrokinetic are far less known and so that poses a problem as far as permitting and public policy marine hydrokinetic is usually a smaller scale with smaller risks but permitting and finding policy to support marine hydro kinetic energy is difficult because of the novelty of the devices however we feel that there are significant environmental benefits that offset the risks and that’s primarily because of all of the externalities a fossil fuel based energy and again that’s not something that I’m going to go into detail about here so as far as next steps related to improving upon viability in addition to technological advances and engineering another another step is to engage stakeholders and that means communities and individuals whose livelihoods and recreation could potentially be affected by the installation of marine hydro kinetic energy devices and so this is in this study and outreach effort we hope to learn about people’s concerns and also learn from people about specialized local knowledge related to where conflicts might occur things like that so I’ve basically outlined our entire program for you I hope that you have some questions I know that I covered a lot of diverse disciplines in there and

I’m not an engineer so if you have really technical questions I can try and find you an answer to them but otherwise i’ll do my best to answer general questions and thanks for listening yes if you don’t mind I’m going to bring you well it’s for the people on the so you won’t hear yourself don’t worry there’s nothing here worried about I was just wondering what the impact of tropical storms and hurricanes have on on this type of equipment that’s a really good question and that the maintenance that kind of feeds into the maintenance costs and actually it looks like Billy wants to answer that question so oh okay oh okay and the answer is well I think that the answer is that we don’t necessarily know in most situations I mean we know from infrastructure that’s already existing that that storms can do a lot of damage but a lot of these technologies do you have the capability to for instance be lowered into the water column if a storm is approaching so there are ways to deal with harsh conditions if they arise but it does play into the high maintenance costs there’s someone back here oh geez he finds more of a comment that it is a question which is that you know costs and benefits analysis between the oil and gas industry and any of the renewables is a really difficult thing because there are really diverse divergent points of maturation I mean gas industry and the electrical industry has been around for a really long time worse you know the renewables are relatively new so I was wondering if anybody has thought about trying to figure out a way to normalize that so that we can put them in proper perspective um if anyone’s trying to normalize that I’m sure that it’s something that Andy would like to do Andy Keeler here he’s the program head for public policy and coastal sustainability and an economics professor at East Carolina University Joe that’s something that you would like to do but i can’t speak for him and say that it’s something that’s possible but you’re right there’s there’s the fact that oil and gas has been along around so much longer and there are also policies that are keeping some industries ahead of others economically and probably several other factors like externalities that i mentioned been written by a number of people in the oil and gas industry doesn’t account for the cost global warming etc so there’s a really big number that no one’s putting in an equation right has anyone looked into the ramifications of taking energy out of the system what effect that has that’s a really great question and there are several people that have modeled taking the energy out of systems and from my understanding of the literature it hasn’t it has resulted in some reduction of tidal fluxes in and out of inlets or the extent of that water reaching shores inside of the inlet inshore of the inlet but it’s I don’t think that right now we have enough information to really assess that because it’s a difficult problem it’s not something that you can do in any other way besides modeling so there are some modeling assessments out there are there any policies in place right now that encouraged stuff like this energy yeah well renewable energy in general yeah renewable energy portfolio standards are a great example there are also federal programs to help the renewable energy industry our program is funded by the North Carolina State Legislature so yes there are you explain what a renewable portfolio a renewable energy portfolio standard basically says

that within this a certain period of time a certain portion of the energy supply our energy demand needs to be met with renewable energy sources had a fear who did that produce energy and like was it tied into anything and danette spirits actually racing or just like that it was basically burning off the energy so but it was being measured and it was producing energy it just wasn’t feeding into the grid and there are a number of reasons for that hopefully some of the test centers within the US are going to have the capability to feed into the grid but when you put when you feed electricity into the grid there’s a whole other series of permits that is required that’s one of the reasons why unless you have the capability to test a lot of different devices it doesn’t it’s not enough power that’s being generated that makes sense to pursue that type of permit that same unit test results favorable for bigger units yeah that company is putting in a large installation off of Alaska and they also tested a second iteration of their device off of the Army Corps of Engineers field research pier so they’re moving ahead they’re doing well yes do they have any plans for any large years here not presently the wave resource off of Alaska is a lot greater than it is here and so it’s still I I feel a way to move towards having those types of devices here because as you have more devices in place and you can prove that they’re generating electricity that they’re generating power and you can improve upon the design then it makes it more and more possible for lower energy sites to also have devices installed at them just a curiosity real also looking at like the everything you don’t read y’all study like how it affected the marine environment was it talked enough hurdles well um we with that device so we weren’t monitoring environmental variables without device but the places where the device is where the environmental interactions have been monitored I haven’t seen most of the studies show that actually all the studies show that they are not chopping up fish or turtles they are not even producing so much shear stress on really small organisms that it’s hurting those organisms everything that I’ve seen so far shows that these devices all the studies that have come out so far shows that these devices are relatively environmentally benign although there are not that many studies out there yet you may have already said this and I apologize that um are there any countries in the world that are producing power with these devices that are contributing to the grid yes there are a lot of European countries Scotland is really taking the lead they have a lot of policies in place that are basically building their marine hydro kinetic energy industry up really quickly and I think they have plans to have something like 60 to 80 / I’m sorry I don’t remember the exact number but sixty to eighty percent of their energy demands be met by marine hydrokinetic resources in the next ten years or something um um well there at all of the meetings always giving presentations at meetings they’re always willing to talk to people here I mean I’ve found everyone that I’ve talked to to be really open and helpful and wanting to collaborate so yeah I’m sure they would consult my dad had a consultant for us Oh from the lab there oh okay from emac thank you you mentioned the storage unit it was do believe you said compressed air mm-hmm um and I mean I know that it’s a big deal to be able energy in a fluctuating power source because it has big ramifications on the grid yes where do you guys sit in the mix in terms of that being a solution are there other people

working with similar types of solution solutions and how far along are you in terms of making that a viable solution because that’s you know that’s a big deal if you guys nail it yeah it is a big deal and I am not part of that research team so I don’t know exactly where they are Billy might have billy gets the quarterly report so he might know better than I do but there are other teams that are working on similar research but it seems like our team from what i know is moving ahead that some of the other teams address some problems that our team foresaw prior to those problems arising am i right about that Billy yes okay okay abb is interested in this some other people they have some systems that they would like to their advertising that they can solve your problems they’re not in the ocean either again the Navy is very interested in this problem there is really no one out there may be put out a contract net someone study a location off of the kawaii to see this how soon would would be whether I would work well but it never come back to the next step to say okay let’s go forward so we are we our research team is working with some of the people to help design and potentially construct and tests those devices that would be underwater that would basically be filled with compressed air and then we use that assurance we have built some devices in laboratory at NC State that actually simulate this whole process of taking energy from some device whether it’s waves or wind compressing that pressing air with that energy or converting it into compressed air driving it into a precious older and then releasing that to drive a turbine to generate electricity so it’s like all of these are complicated processes that takes a long bit of time and money in order to be able to come up with the solution that really works well now can I ask my question dr. Doug’s tell us what really excites you about this field that you’re okay I am thrilled to be involved with ocean renewable energy renewable energy in general especially ocean-based energy because first of all it’s a nascent field and second of all because I did my dissertation work on greenhouse gases the feedback between two different greenhouse gas gases and how carbon dioxide effects methane concentrations so I think in the environmental science field a lot of times we are constantly measuring the problems we are constantly measuring what’s wrong so it’s really exciting to be involved in research that is addressing some of those problems and I really feel that this is one of those fields it’s also exciting to be able to do research that hopefully will help to head off any sort of conflicts any sort of environmental detriments before they happen because it is a nice a’n’t sector we’ve got a few more questions or we think it’s tough catch your eye most of the work you can anticipate being in federal waters or state wars that you’re looking at but authorities your stuff is in state wars and maybe get more bang for falcon in federal waters get depth of the words and stuff i just wanted what percentage of state yeah i don’t i don’t think we know yet i think we’re just looking at sorry Nancy oh ok so do we asked the percentage of the work that we anticipate to be being done in state waters versus federal waters and so right now I think that we’re really just looking at all of the waters off the North Carolina coast technological there there isn’t necessarily the technology for foundations and very deep waters and so foundations and moorings and so we are probably looking at things on the shelf perhaps on the Shelf slope but then you have issues with slumping and

landslides and things like that so yeah there’s probably so I can’t give you an exact percentage but some work that’s being pursued in state waters in some in federal waters right now the test center is all in state waters yes this is for dr. edge would you explain to me about the patent system i mean if one of these students invent something who gets credit for it you just give it away to these companies that’s very interesting question one that we try to follow the courses so that as our researchers their students are developing devices and techniques and processes we have a an agreement that we require different universities to sign that also assigned by the people we work with outside the device developers as others so that there is an understanding of who owns the intellectual property the lango out of the building a widget if we own the intellectual property for that rigid then we shall we can part that effective so hopefully as this process food stores will have the opportunity to reap some benefits from the investment that the state’s made in its program and this very early on in the presentation that dr. Deb said she showed the mission statement she asked us all to read that mission is that we are in the process of doing this to contribute to not only the development of economics in the coastal environmental this part of the state but also to help in the creation of job opportunities so those are two major faux pas both sigh that we have tried to keep ourselves focused on for the last four years that we’ve been in this program jobs and he come so that’s where we started that’s where we’re working and that’s where ultimately virgos survive and win looking forward to it so since our time is up our people are dying off that have tile then now listen John what you got a chance listen to I’d like to on behalf of you and those people that might be out there listening to us on the internet Thank duck two ducks for very nice presentation is very informative and we appreciate it very much you