King's Think Tank on the European Migrant Crisis

thank you for coming to our first event of the year my name is Jacob Murtagh and this is my first panel event at the think tank just little information about the organization the kingston tank is the largest student-led Policy Institute in Europe and we have seven different policy Institute’s that focus on current problems in the world so how do we start how how can we contextualize this overwhelming movement of people across Europe how do we come about the hundreds of thousands of refugees and migrants coming from Syria Afghanistan eritrea Iraq and many other countries escaping poverty and war who does Europe turn to some countries like Germany and Sweden have advocated an open-door policy but gravely underestimated the capacity of their country’s infrastructure reinforcing borders and sending people back seem to be one of the short-term solutions that Hungary and Slovakia have started even the hundred and twenty thousand relocation scheme spearheaded by the EU Commission is not enough British politicians pride themselves on being one of the highest overseas development contributors but only support a relocation scheme program for a fraction of the population and refugees and refugee camps neighbouring Syria its underlying all of this is the lack of a collective long-term strategy today our distinguished guests come from the academic political and media sphere dr. just Jeff Chris is a research associate at the University of Oxford’s refugee studies centre he was previously head of policy development at the UNHCR and worked in senior positions at the refugees international and the global commission on international migration dr. crisp has first-hand experience of humanitarian operations in more than 60 countries around the world in May 2013 he led an evaluation mission to examine the international response to the Syrian refugee crisis in Jordan Lebanon and Iraq Jean Lambert has been the green MEP for London since 1999 she’s been a vocal advocate for refugee rights and during her time as MEP has worked actively on issues of asylum and refugees as a member of the employment and Social Affairs Committee she’s also the Green Party’s immigration spokesperson mr James mates is the Europe editor and newscaster for ITV News he covered the refugee crisis and former Yugoslavia the uprising in Chechnya and the Rwandan genocide his extensive knowledge and reporting has led him to winning multiple awards including a silver medal from the film & Television Festival in New York and title of senior correspondent at ITV just yesterday he was in Brussels to report on the council summit and the enduring problem of refugees now concerning the structure will have a one-hour panel discussion on the migrants themselves the borders and the response needed to overcome the crisis will end with a 30 minute Q&A session feel free to use the hashtag ktt refugees crisis and tagging us at Cannes think tank so my first question is how do we distinguish between economic migrants and asylum seekers and is it even necessary to do so after all most of them are escaping extreme poverty and oppression should we start with you that’s great yeah okay well the question has been raised particularly in the right-wing media as to whether all of the people making their way into your other are actually refugees or whether they come under some other studies particularly economic migrants and I’m certainly not going to try anomaly did one hundred percent of the people who have arrived in Europe over the past few months necessarily refugees but I think if we just take a look at the country you’ve already mentioned Syria Afghanistan Iraq Eritrea and I would also enter that list Somalia I think the latest figures show there around 75 percent of new arrivals come from those countries and those countries are what we call breakfast eep reducing countries in the sense that their countries affected by armed conflicts instability and a huge human rights violation so there’s kind of one can presuppose that a large number of them are indeed refugees there is you’ve asked the question as to how do we tell whether somebody is a refugee or not there is a 1951 UN refugee convention to which all the European member states are met our signatories which sets out the definition of the refugee is somebody being over some of you has a well-founded fear of persecution for reasons of race religion political pain nationality or membership of a particular social group and that is the standard definition that all governments use in order to kind of test the case of individual asylum seekers we have something called refugee status determination which is a very detailed look at each individual application look at what’s happening in the country of

origin trying to verify that person’s story to see whether it can be confirmed that they are in need of international protection clearly when such large numbers of people cross borders as they have been recently then such individual status determination is simply not possible so refugees are recognized on what we call a prima facie basis in other words if you’re coming from a country which as I’ve just said is affected by conflict in human rights violations there people are accepted in pending laps later on a more detailed examination of their individual Christ so my hope you will be that most of the people arriving do have a good and well founded claim for refugee status and that the wrong mechanisms that allow us in the longer term to differentiate between people who are in need of protection and people who are not in need in possession okay gene what what do you think should we what about people from Macedonia and Serbia who they also are they had there is also poverty than I do you think that these people should also be accepted or what’s your take on that well I think the the key to it is the the status determination and that there’s a growing talk about sort of the use of so-called safer countries and you’re seeing a movie but I think from the European Union to sort of label certain countries that border countries accession countries as safe third country and part of that is you know I think because there has been movement across border from some of these particularly people number of them from Roma background and so on so people feeling that you know this is almost being trying to cope with with that anyway and a lot of those have not actually met the criteria under EU legislation but Reba for refugee status or subsidiary protection the European Union works works with with both slightly different criteria so you know so what I think what you’re seeing at the moment though is this use of sort of safe third country as a way to say sort of whoa you know not everybody here because if it’s a safe third country at the border you can say well okay you know you stay there and they will deal with your status but damn determination so that’s part of it in terms of what’s happening there but even then that the the criterion has to be that somebody who lodges an application for asylum is the you know their application should be determined you cannot assume that every country is safe for everybody you know that even those colors which are now looking at you know being seen this safer countries around the border as it were you know you will still find even there a small number of people do actually unity gain a refugee status even a present so that’s one of the things that you’re you’re seeing for some of those particular countries but i think you know part of what we’re we’re seeing at the moment is that this almost are clinging on to trying to keep the systems that we have but in some countries they’re relatively new you know some countries have never really a sort of an asylum system before they joined the European Union but trying to sort of carry on working with people sort of coming in to claim asylum as if it was still normal so they’re still trying to do a status determination instead of us was being said you know sort of saying well you know we first of all we save yes you’re here then you know we’ll deal with your claims as and when we can get to them but first we offer protection and it’s true that in terms of and that you know that lost my thread they’re there to put my phone I have a lot to sing and that’s not good idea but you know that you’re you are seeing at the moment as I say that this sort of desire to try and carry on keeping to the rules that are on the statute books at a point where they can’t particular work but do you think that adding these safe countries on to the list of European so they’re safe zone is that actually helping the situation though putting the responsibilities on other countries and given that the safe countries that are being written down into this list they’re not necessarily as well developed as other EU member states well I mean I want the examples of that I think is that if you were Kurdish you’d left Syria because of the attacks on kobani or wherever you’re in Turkey at the moment I don’t know how safe food feeling Turkey as a curve coming from

Syria at the moment so I think that the the use of the suddenly sort of bringing into play the safer country line for countries such as Turkey and 34 others is a way of buck-passing for those who are in need of protection a lot of them will already have cross the number of borders they are not going to be to turn you know from coming to the European Union simply because people say they should be in Serbia or wherever else the problem comes is if they’re we then get into the business of returning people to Serbia that doesn’t have a you know a reasonable system in place you’re not actually meeting the needs of the person in need of protection you’re putting in place a whole set of other things to try and pretend your system is working well actually you need to be investing in the system and trying to deal with the people that you have in front of you as best you can okay well James I have a question to you concerning groups that are coming in so certain countries and groups are advocating to pick and choose migrants based on their religion for example Slovenia has just said that it will only accept Christian refugees so do you think a sectarian response to this is justified no clearly not and but I think there is also an element there of pointing to particular persecution of certain communities of whom some Christians in the Middle East undoubtedly would fall into that category so I doing one wants to necessarily consider that other considerations like that a purely sectarian and they will have a very well founded basis anecdotally and I speak anecdotally but having spent many many weeks in in the countries of the Balkans in Central Europe with refugees as they cross the borders of hungriness Libyan urine serbia and croatia austria germany and and having spoken to a great number of them the jones s made the probably forty percent of those crossing their borders are actually from the Balkans and they do anticipate sending those back on the basis that possibly from Kosovo you might have a case for some other countries you probably dead and I think that’s probably and not an unreasonable estimate there is the problem that when you confuse people who are defined as economic migrants rightly or wrongly with people who are clearly refugees that you can undermine the system for dealing with the refugees when you have a system their way over I met many many people told me the Syrian respect not a word of Arabic I’m not saying they necessarily what but there is clearly a suspicion that we’re all Syrians now that in the light of the Swedish commitment that all Syrians will get asylum that a lot of them are actually throwing off their passports when they get under that isn’t that you you have seen and heard reports about that Mike and confirming castle so how do you how can you find out who is an actual refugee or not how can you that is one of the problems and an added what makes that a much bigger issue in my mind talking to people in Germany as I was this week is that it is diluting and undermining the acceptance of the need to have a generous local response to those fleeing war and persecution genuinely they are happy to accept and welcome people fleeing or in Syria they are less happy to welcome people from Pakistan or Bangladesh or sub-saharan Africa or the Balkans who they believed to be economic migrants however you define the difference between them in people’s minds in democracy’s there is that is a factor that has to be taken into account I mean like I have so most your fun the communication I get on social media for people to watch our persons is about the particular issue do you refer to as refugees or as migrants or as economic migrants we I’m thrashing around China like that policy on that my budget by talking about refugees among whom there are some economic migrants at the beginning of a report and then tend to call the refugees after that might do that on the basis mrs. Howard always defend us that everyone has a right to be treated as a refugee until proven otherwise I think that is that when you turn up now for asylum you have a right to have your a sign of application considered and therefore on that basis even if they aren’t all go to end up winning refugee status at the a priori they should be treated as refugees which is one of the issues that people at governments so then why for example if according to what you say about treating the refugees as all of them before you find out about their true background then why are we not dealing with a kill

a crisis as if there are refugees and processing the pastor well that ties into the doublet rules and that we are get our legalistic about the Dublin rules and saying we’re very happy to have treat anyone as a refugee who has turned off in the country and ask for asylum but if they’re in someone else’s country then they must ask for asylum there it slightly disingenuous of course because you know surrounded by water we can we can do that very easily until the French start sending through the tunnel which which may well happen I my dad because they’re deeply fed up with with with British policy on that because they can see it for what it is that they can’t get written and therefore they can’t ask for a sign of however genuine their their Asylum collect maybe but that is the dubbing rules that Incas talking about which are simply not fit for purpose in the current state of this classes Jeff vehicle yeah I mean I think while we’re talking about the refugees themselves which had properly introduced the question as to why these people are moving on from the countries that are both asylum in the first place particularly from Turkey and I even my own perspective on that bit in general refugees whether they’ve gone to Turkey to Lebanon to northern Iraq or children are in relatively safe circumcised live sound they’ve certainly found a degree of protection in the countries of first asylum which obviously they didn’t have it in Syria that’s the very recently left but many of them particular those in Turkey are choosing how to move on through into Greece and then to other parts of your why exactly is that is it are they attracted by our amazing social welfare benefits for example I don’t think so i think from my conversations with the referees ensure desperation about the absence of any real future for them and their families the war is intensifying in Syria even if it comes to an end the level of destruction it’s going to be so great that early returns to the country are going to be quite difficult humanitarian levels of humanitarian assistance are actually declining as the as the crisis persists refugees in Turkey for example I’m opposed to the other countries it above the Sun don’t have a right to work they can only work in the informal sector often that means sending out their kids to go Morgan a few into a few pennies a week or a day in the important was saying too often work in dangerous and difficult circumstances and taking kids out of school for their very first of putting them into the labor market so from my perspective in the conversations I’ve had with the refugees they just feel there’s no future fall in a country like Turkey and the only alternative is for them what’s a month on the gene my question is another question concerning the refugees themselves for me I still have time why I know that the British public at least they’re very they were very supportive in September in terms of bringing in more refugees from Europe why is it that the government decided to choose only from the refugee camps wise and I’m working more towards relieving the pressures within the EU I mean wouldn’t that be a good sign to our EU partners yes there will be a very good sign of solidarity and particularly when you want your European partners to be offering some solidarity back in terms of whatever the reforms are that you know the government is after this week and a head of you know sort of the referendum on the other hand the government is also in a situation where it has its put this arbitrary cap on the net number of people community coming into into the country and so they’ve got themselves in this bind I think we’re by putting that ultra capital bar back and not recognizing I mean let’s set aside free movement from the European Union and I want to i’m not one of those but you know if even if we leave the figures they’re out of it that you can never predict the number of people who will be coming to your country to seek asylum I mean you just can’t do that fit in the state of the world so if that was always going to be something that fluctuated and I think you know not to make that clear to people that at times you will be asked for a humanitarian response which may mean that you know even if got a number in place as the maximum number you net migration you want you will need to respond to that in terms of the humanitarian response but also the legal response you have your a party to the Geneva Convention you are actually bound by some of the european union law on on the side we’re not near not asian concerting a number no wait well I mean as far as I’m aware that number is it’s unusual but we’re 24 San Francisco now I’m talking about right or whatever I’m talking about 100,000 immigration cap that the government has put in place in

terms of net immigration to the qatari oh the targets are leaders whatever um you know that this figure means that they then get trapped by actually sort of being every time I want to offer more even if they wanted to you then get a tactful hang on you said you were only going to have what are you doing bringing these people in you have said that it’s a real pressure so either made the other week talking about it a pressure on social cohesion etc so they almost get themselves trapped in their own rhetoric whatever they then want to do they’ve also made the argument that supporting the region is extremely important and so are one of the two biggest donors in terms of money going into support in Lebanon and you know turkey etc and that’s a very good thing to actually offer that that support there and other EU member states should be stepping up on that but it’s not a substitute for taking people in here and the number that they took under the resettlement scheme that which was not part of the UNHCR formal resettlement scheme it hasn’t been co-ordinated with the European Union you know with just over a couple of hundred people over the last few years I think others may have a different view of my view is that that was absolutely shameful and that the only reason they’ve been pushed now to the number that they’re looking at taking over the next two years that’s been because there’s been this massive demonstration of public support now they’ve got to make it work and that’s also about the resources that you put in a little level and so unassailable but I think they could certainly be offering more and we have a lot of experience here you know we already do some level of resettlement and you know we’ve got that that we can build on and part of it is about being willing to make the case with the public about by you’re doing this and this has been a point where there’s been that public books so I think they’ve got themselves caught up in the policies there other wider immigration policy may have different periods well I said it wouldn’t it wouldn’t disagree with you but I I think we’re not win anyway I wanted to defend British government policy there is intense frustration in London but also in many other European capitals with the way policy has developed since Angela Merkel may have big promise on sep tember before which was made on a friday night in apparently in discussion with no one and has caused very many problems number one is that is the pull factor of actually taking people with persuading people to leave either relatively middle class and safe homes in Damascus like use the word relative or from camps to make a perilous journey but the other point is that what she did was made this strange promise in which she hath got rid of Dublin but only half so she said that the Dublin rules must still apply the Dublin rules in case it’s not aware of the month at you must apply for asylum and have your son a application processed in the country in which you first arrived in your opinion which for most people would either be Greece or Italy now this was obviously been widely ignored because the grease in Italians couldn’t handle it people were sort of being shoveled on come across the border or in an organized fashion by the Greeks in hook and a slightly won’t happen as it but nonetheless extensive fashion by the Italians as well achieve so what angle Michael said was the Dublin rules must still apply you must still be processed and fingerprinted in the country in which you arrived but if you don’t if you manage to evade this on your way to Germany and get to Germany without having made a dublin-based application in another country we will then accept your application in German and you see this I saw this this week we’re in passau where five thousand a day are coming in and the first middy of the time of the train and they and they take them to a big tent where everybody’s fingerprinted so I said to the woman what’s the point of this fingerprinting what are you going to do he said this links immediately and normally within five minutes sometimes within an hour of connections are slow to the central Frontex database on fingerprinting on sorry on asylum applications so these fingerprints will go right across anyone who has been made an application anywhere in the EU and if you have already made one and your fingerprints are on file somewhere else you will be sent back to that country unless you certain extreme exceptional circumstances or unless you’re under 18 so we have this situation in which there is now this game going on web thousands of people are trying to get to Germany without at any point being processed on the way which means what I saw in Hungary in Croatian in Slovenia is that any offer or attempt by the authorities there to help people to accommodate them

to they work they would you had thousands of people sleeping on the side the most when the weather fortunate was quite good this was in September and they would bring up buses and sail again the bus will take you to somewhere where you can sleep in shuttles night and then we’re arranging to get you to Germany they wouldn’t get in the bus they didn’t believe that somewhere along that way they weren’t going to end up processed and their arrival in the promised land was not going to be scuppered by being on file somewhere else and this all came out of the original Angela Merkel somewhat ill for added promise of more septum burr and that is a root of a lot of the frustration that exists particularly in Eastern Europe but in Paris and Rome as well and in London and i think is it is in some part responsible for the very uncoordinated response that you’re seeing in europe and and the fact that london’s aside the gold is that i don’t offer that to that problem excuse or justification just about that too what’s up just cover comments transmissions from sexy european Border Agency a few minutes ago plantations been putting out the figure that 700,000 people from outside Europe event of the European Union in the first nine months of this year and I just wanted to point out that three days ago it came to light that this in fact is a completely false figure and it’s 700,000 border crossings not 700,000 new arrivals in Europe so if a single refugee asylum seeker process three or four borders then it’s counted for time so the actual number of physical individual people crossing the borders is significantly less than the figure of 700,000 which I think has a fellow and a lot of people it also puts into historical perspective the fact that this is not the largest influx in Europe since the Second World War is what a lot of people have been saying because if you look at the figures during the Balkans war the war in Yugoslavia the numbers are actually much greater so we’re not dealing that are totally unprecedented situation although the speed is particularly striking in this particular instance go on the question of resettling from refugee camps in the region the UK government has made it very clear that it’s not going to resettle Britain the residues and countries I just get to the or Greece but will s adapt my colleagues are just said we’ll select individual refugees or grab a few families from surrounding countries but they keep saying I’m effort baby Cameron m22 reason i say this many many times we will be taking refugees from refugee camps well the fact of the matter is eighty-five percent of the refugees in the Middle East the Syrian refugees are not looking in camps a living in those communities amongst the population so but even on that basic Frank term and I think it’s a bit of disinformation going on but just going on from that I mean what I see making Theresa May sweet quite closely is kind of a push in the direction of what I would call an Australian system which divides up refugees into so-called refugee good refugees and bad asylum seekers the good refugees of people go to the next the next door country right there for years maybe forever in order to be selected for resettlement they’re the good guys the bad guys are those who actually make their own decision to move and try and find a solution for themselves and for it you’re probably aware of Australian policy which is really punitive to all people making to Australia under their own devices and I think reading the tree to my speech seemed to be some attention that direction ourselves like it’s like very much work another people we would have a troll areum yeah if we just speak up a bit technical but we’ll move on to the issues of borders so hungry Slovenia and Germany have introduced border controls and a lot of people saying that this is the end of the Schengen Agreement as we know it what are your thoughts on that what do you think is this the end of the I guess crown jewel and what the European project was supposed to be anyone concerned yeah I said you think it has that potential the Germans have extended their all the controls with on the border with Austria they did that yesterday for another 20 days they’ve been in place for more than a month already and thirdly talking to UM police and border staff down there they cannot see that portal control being lifted at any time you have 5,000 people day at one particular entry point coming through and to do that without any just to reopen the water and allow them to cross and wander up it’s not about to happen the I think the key determinant will be worth the degree to which ill feeling is continues to be generated amongst European countries the attempt to spoken to enforce quotas for distributing people a big problem with that is not getting countries to accept them then that is a major problem the big problem of that is going to be persuading refugees to go to countries they don’t want to go to we

were invited on largest last Friday night to Rome to see a show piece of eritrean refugees who were going to be taken as part of a quota to sweep before the cameras got there half of them and absconded the other half had to be locked in overnight to make sure they were still there the next day they didn’t want to go we seen the same thing now with refugees being moot an attempt to move some refugees from Greece to Luxembourg which seems to write rage on called Younker because he can’t see what problem we’re going to Luxembourg is and if you go cry but they didn’t want to go to Luxembourg now in a border for Europe if you can I suppose distribute people according to the cuates but will they stay then it seems improbable certainly be you will have seen the pictures you’ll have heard the people chanting Germany Germany the only place anybody that I met wanted to go was gently and most of them are going there and we’re distributing them within a Schengen zone will be very very difficult all of this I think will put tremendous pressure I’m checking which is already a creaking to put in marlton so do we give more money to Germany then just for them to accommodate them or we will just end with every locations into she said they clearly don’t want to be in but I think the problem goes much further than money the problem assimilation try to come okay so you basically have to chew the mic I think I believe my family and I think that look fun what is happening here is that the yes I agree that Schengen in some places looks as if it’s it’s in difficulty and I think however whether that one is permanent or not also depends how it’s going to affect business communities and if business starts to feel that this is getting in the way of trade that this is you know a real problem there then there will be some pressure coming the other way to to open up again and that’s certainly at the moment the Commission beginning it’s doing what it can to look at the cases to push the Member States back to you know you have the right for temporary closures are important under Schengen if you’re under pressure or it’s a security threat but you know this idea that somehow these are going to be sitting there for a while there will be a real push back from the Commission for what that is is worth and I think it’s quite interesting in the whole of this crisis you know that the Commission is actually doing what it can and is coming up with proposals and it’s doing what member states and send it to alter binging for ages and then the barrier comes by the Member States say well yes we are usually that bad actually we don’t like it and you know our public don’t like it and we’re not ready prepared to engage in this but I think the question about the whole sort of relocation scheme within the European Union and moving people on is that executive to the question that Jeff raised which is about where people see their future within this and I think this is part of the real problem here that if people want it’s our people you prepared to stop to get the information about what this means what the implications are in cetera and certainly I think a lot of member states have been really poorly prepared to actually even hand out the basic information that they are supposed to have in a variety of languages you know that the very fact that the Hungarians knew this was going on didn’t even have information there in languages which to the legislation understand or can’t reasonably be expected to understand i think is negligibly ugly but the bigger issue is where’s your future where do you think the future lies your family and the fact that people feel that under the dublin system you end up being trapped somewhere we don’t want to be you don’t understand it you may never even have heard of this country and this is your one chance to actually get some safety for yourself an opportunity for a livelihood and if you’ve got kids an opportunity for their education so I think you know there’s a very serious questions here that European Union has to ask in terms of a lot of people are now saying Dublin’s knocketh the solar that said it wasn’t fit for purpose before it was introduced you know what’s how are they going to change that if you’re drunk himself you dismissed that prospect just yesterday on this issuer but they’re going to Luxembourg he said very clearly being a refugee does not give you a right to choose where you want to live well in that cab in that case younger is on called jonker also has to understand that okay it may not give you a choice or money went and

there but people will make that choice as a slander if they end up somewhere then you know potentially destitute and without a set of the immigration status you know which certainly the side the you know refugee status of all subsidiary protection gives you then you are ending up with another problem a bigger social problem in memory respect so I mean it is a very big voice now coming from the European Parliament about the need to change doubling to look at it and certainly the some of the issues coming in on one of the elements either of choice with in Dublin or that people have some sort of say some sort of preference where they go or some form of mutual recognition of refugee status so that at least people feel they are not stuck in the country that they happen to come to first and yeah that’s not going to necessarily help the situation you know the the immediate moment but it’s certainly part of the thinking that needs to be going on and the proposals at the moment this week for doubling were that we add on a sort of a mechanism by the mechanism for doubling you know a relocation mechanism to it that by itself doesn’t stand a hope of working on the ground unless people feel they actually have some degree of agency choice about their future and that then fits with the questions all about integration and you know opportunities on the labor market or density just a couple of points on the relocation in each of them and I think in principle it’s a great idea it’s all of our cooperation it’s about responsibility sharing which is to send me what the refugee Reggie was supposed to be all about like James you know I have some data serious reservations about having my function in practice you know that polity of sending people to countries about really wanted to be there and sending the refugees to countries they don’t want to go to themselves I think that’s as if restoring our problems for the future and I think we’ve seen examples of this in the boss the National never rather than internet or so for example in Sweden Sweden that had made an effort in the past to try and make sure that rep you spread out throughout the whole country rather than congregating in the mainland cities such as Stockholm and so it spread them out around the country made social welfare benefits and accommodation and housing benefits dependent on conditional on people remaining in the places they were relocated to but even so a lot of people drifted back to the major cities because it wants to meet with with their friends their relative second patches and so I think you know human agency refugee agency in this instance he’s going to scupper very neat plans and a minor in capital cities in terms of Schengen and Dublin I was talking to a very senior European Commission official earlier this week he was very explicit about doubling the Dublin instead but he said we can’t we can never admit to shame with his dead you know it’s such a central part of the European project freedom of movement I mean w is a macro technical thing related specifically to asylum seekers but shanking is about what the EU as an entity is but showing up the Schengen doesn’t doesn’t undermine freedom of movement border Free Europe and freedom of movement are compatible ya nah tink I’m not already in that there are countries in the EU who for which there is full freedom of movement but which are not in check drinking will be nothing or not I think we really i think is in big big trouble but I took the reposition of a border control simply Texas back more television years before Singh when the family principle fever favorite flavor was still in existence thank you for that um I think we’ll move on to our last thing given that grab it sometime yes about the type of response needed so my question is what web solutions are needed to tackle the problem in Europe and the problem at source so i would like to start well I think you knows from these question is very easy to fold into packages so as I’m not gonna fall into a few platitudes and made italy i mean clearly and obviously if we’re talking about Syria or even the other countries of origin that have been mentioned Afghanistan Iraq eritrea somalia I mean clearly for these music is any kind of meaningful peace process in Syria so wrote the UN security council was established to in the words of the UN Charter safe succeeding generations from the scourge of war it was the conference for peace and security mechanism put in place up to the end of a second or more now we’ve got a situation where four of the five permanent members of the Security Council actually directly involved in the Syrian conflict so I mean up without a meaningful peace process in Syria I think it’s very difficult to predict what kind of other solutions can be filmed there are some ideas on the table a lot of people are kind of advocating on behalf of what they call safe and legal routes into Europe so people don’t

have to make difficult and dangerous journeys as they’re doing at the moment I think that’s an idea that’s worth exploring but i think the number of people who will be offered safe and legal route much much smaller than the number of people that want to make their way to Europe so they’ll become frustrated de marde there and then I think the third area where we really have to look is something we’ve mentioned already which is greater and different types of support to refugee hosting countries and here I’m not just talking about higher levels of humanitarian assistance you I don’t think if you give a Syrian refugee tents or a little bit more food is going to change that all out looking iphone I think if they’re going to stay in those countries beside of such as turkey they really need to see much more of a future for themselves and their families and that futures got to include things like access to employment and access to education in the recent don’t want to say more honest something’s been following it but in the recent eu-turkey negotiations I think turkey has going to make some offer to provide both ways to employment for Syrian refugees I’m not exactly sure what that means I’m not exactly sure what kind of proportion for Syrian refugees are going to be able to exercise the right to work but I think unless they argue it better employment opportunities educational communities then the movement into Europe is certainly going to continue yeah I think fit you know this is the the absolute foundation question and I think there are no easy answers to this report enough before Russia got involved and now that you know we have Russia Iran we have have it so many players there it’s almost sort of becoming like a sort of competition to inning and more and more difficult I think to see way forward I mean I think that if you’re looking for some sort of degree of stability in Syria it appears more of all that there’s a very bitter pill to swallow which may be that Assad is there for at least a foreseeable sort of future with some pathway out and then what follows will i think is very unclear I mean James babe well have some other ideas on that but I think that one of the things that certainly need the issue about safe and legal routes into the European Union it is important party because what you’re also trying to do at the moment I think is sort of calm the situation to some extent but you know again everybody is feeling that there is a rush on that this is the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for some it may well be but you know so what’re what else can be done to support those areas of stability that there are I think there are real concerns about what is likely to happen in Lebanon unless real efforts are made to actually you know provide greater support on the on the ground there not only for the refugees but for the Lebanese people themselves we want to figure something that one in foreign people in Lebanese is estimated to be a refugee so that’s here a tremendous if I thickness of a responsibility to miss Burton at that country is bearing so some of the ideas that are beginning to come forward are linked to yes livelihood purchasing power you know that what do you do about the daily allowances for people so that you know they actually have the opportunity to sort of again begin some whether it’s small businesses a you know encourage markets what can be done on the ground there in parts of Syria which may still sort of have had some sort of stability with them in terms of agriculture regeneration of the land which again is becoming very very degraded and it’s going to be less and less possible possibility of supporting people so those sort of ideas about how do you how do you actually help maintain stability in areas that still have some sort of stability and certainly one of the things that I mean I made reference to Turkey and Iran I well I’m try and put this bird politely but i think that lord that the support that was given to turkey in terms of dealing not only with Isis but with the PKK was a really bad decision in terms of actually increasing instability in Turkey and not necessarily having any sort of co-ordinated force or strategy against Isis and therefore i think but in all of the dealings that the european union now has been turkey that issue should not be set aside that yes you know obviously we’ve been trying for ages to get turkey to keep it all up

pretty close towards Greece all sorts of resources going into Turkey for that but i think if you know we need to make sure that we’re also looking at the peace process within turkey amongst its own communities but the right to work and that access for livelihood is extremely for wherever people are whether it’s within the European Union or I just like to quickly interject in the geopolitical narrative wouldn’t it be right to engage with Russia isn’t Russia the long-term key to this given that it has Assad has negotiates with ourselves and negotiates with Iran isn’t that the key to de-escalating the situation in Syria and thereby decreasing the flow of migrants into Europe I think part of the discussion about whether it decreases flows of Syrians but whether increases flows if they do people from Ukraine I think it is one of the issues and yes I mean you know people do feel that we need to be working with Russia at the moment I think it’s it’s not what it’s a pity that that wasn’t done much much earlier in the crisis you know when we couldn’t find a solution with Russia earlier on and therefore you know things that have deteriorated and fragmented much more within Syria I think one of the questions that certainly the European Union will be asking is what is the price of cooperating with Russia in terms of you know lifting of sanctions etc because of the situation in Crimea and Ukraine are completely agreed made very very much more complicated by the Ukrainian situation over there is a remains a very powerful feeling you can’t in any way reward Russia but what it’s done in what falling is still doing in eastern Ukraine and Crimea I mean you may be right Russia has to be part of the solution but it seems that the only solution that brush is prepared to get cooperate with is effectively enabling Assad to win the Syrian civil war Matt rail politic may mean that at the end of the day we might you know quietly go along with that or at least not oppose it because this has been this opponent a bloodbath for so many years I’m not predicting that will be the case but certainly people and I’m talking from us extra state level down a means in which a sad can stay in power for a transitional period this feels to me like a move towards some sort of arrangement in which and of course the key point is not as Hattie himself as an individual but the klique around us at they’re the ones who want to stay in power no one’s ever really believed that he was an individual strong man went to Saddam well Gaddafi was and this matters and auditioning on his father’s death was well it was taken as the symbol of the regime by buying the cliq who had who had kept his father in town on our keeping him in power so the key thing there may be to keep the our lights in power and that little coterie around a sad Rodney and they may sacrifice the individual himself when the time comes but I wouldn’t be surprised if you saw more moves towards that and I certainly think it’s the only policy that Russia’s getting on back in Europe something is going to have to be done because I think the public mood in Germany is turning quite fast we are going to see alone when through the winter getting in those boats in the Mediterranean ceases to be possible mentis ease and the numbers will fall though dramatically and there will be a pause and there will be an opportunity but if come the spring you start seeing ten thousand people a day coming into Germany again I think you will find very real pressure on local there has already been a revival of the pegida anti-islamist marches in dresden saxony which we thought had gone away they were largely discredited for now the numbers are back up ten fifteen thousand on a monday and that’s not to mention Austrian where the far-right did extremely well on the weekend in elections in Vienna France we know what’s happening in France with marine lepen it is not it is seagull my certain she will be one of the two run off candidates the presidential election in two years time and who knows what no one would rule out that she might win it immigration may be the issue that takes the UK out of the EU I mean these pressures are building up we have another couple of years of whatever the figures are five six seven eight hundred thousand people arriving in Europe and I think you will seem to those that those

pressures braking action I’m not very very unfortunate ways I suspect that the key to the issue is sorting out Syria but even before you can do that chucking money at the problem it was estimated at absorbing 800,000 refugees this year if that’s what the figure ends up being is going to cost germany between 20 and 30 billion euros well they were talking last night about giving a turkey three billion and as angular marco pointed out kitty is already costing the turks seven billion a year so while this seems a lot of money to give to a not particularly pleasant regime in fairness to them they are hosting two million refugees and it’s costing them a very significant amount of money so if you have a situation in which Germany alone is paying twenty to thirty billion year I suspect them that the EU is just going to have to bite the bullet and throw very significant sums of money at Turkey and Jordan Lebanon at Libya in order to make life tolerable acceptable and and to this for the people in cabs or other forms of housing and in order to persuade the government’s there to cooperate in preventing wide-scale movement of people I can’t see any other shorter short-term solution Syrian war is not gonna be over by next spring nothing great so we’ll open up to a Q&A session will have three to four questions please do introduce yourself and ask and raise your voice when you speak anyone yes William well it’s just William Morris next century foundation that’s just disturbing to hear James saying that ITV treats all in terms of its commentary cheap eats all migrants as refugees and he’s used the simpler world refugee for migrants we know that the accused of the turkish airways office in baghdad go around the block you know of young men looking for tickets to come to Istanbul and then to pay the people trafficker takes a lot of money to come to Europe that way if you’re a Yazidi refugee in poverty and northern Iraq in the middle of a plane that’s not an opportunity that’s open to you that’s one issue in the other issue is of course the it’s very disturbing or at least I find it very disturbing though us her and the Coptic Church are appealing to the west to stop the ethnic cleansing of Christians in the Middle East the reverse ethnic cleansing as we draw Christian migrants here and give them preferential treatment pay because they’re richer and bead because when we get here we give them preferential treatment and the whole campaigns within the church for that now in in the West it’s it’s disturbing this bias and so I just I’m disturbed by the way that we treat leases and we’d have no refugees in the region you know I mean Avia’s ed what a lot of these real refugees don’t want to leave and they like to have help in the region but we’re not building homes in the name of a planeload I was supporting people that I suspect we could do a lot more in the region there was there a question and yeah well can we warn the ridge of this interview I think of my last hour we just saying yes that’s precisely that’s what i mean by chuckie money to the problem I don’t mean just give the money but I means you know you’re going to spend it properly and wisely in order to do that there are I have to say I mean listen I may have been on the road for many weeks but in terms of the numbers of people there i met remarkably few of them but but I did meet several years ed families and there’s no question that some of you have been able to get out and indeed the city’s I were her horribly treating look I’m not necessarily a horribly poor me many of them lived quite middle-class lives in northern Iraq in relatively speaking prosperous times before Isis turned up and certainly when they scraped together everything they have it’s enough to pay people Trump because in many cases the in terms of how we describe them it is complete minefield you cannot say every single time refugees and or economic migrants you can’t decide whether they’re refugees or whether they’re my friends so as I explained my policy and I think it’s better calm than I TV you point out that amongst these people there are going to be refugees and economic migrants but that they do have the right to be treated as refugees until up if they say they are until otherwise it’s damaged that’s simply the

way that’s why we’ve lent towards using the term refugees rather than calling them all migrants all the time however whilst absolutely accepting but in amongst our economic migrants I mean I met a gentleman from the hall when I said why have you come on Pakistan he said well the extras didn’t have a job you know I not for me to say that’s not a very good reason to try and get into Europe it may not when he meets the asylum officer and has his claim examine be as committing or compelling a reason as some of the others at me but but that was a reason he said that he left but you know I am not about to judge him or or why he’s left or whether he should be given that’s what that’s what that’s for people who paid let’s say my payment but maybe Molly any more questions I’m safer in terms of the solution Syria is always mentioned but there’s one country that’s quite forgotten and that’s Libya Libya is a failed state and a large portion of this movement comes from Libya to across the Mediterranean obviously the intervention by NATO in Libya sort of calls this instability as bad as Gaddafi was it was very who’s a British and French intervention is there I mean Syria is a module that’s been the arena of the great powers for a long time but Libya it’s a more solvable situation there could be a lot more than to be done to create a safer area there to create a political settlement so should more focused keep it on Libya as something that can be worked on this Syria I don’t think we’ll get better anytime soon thank you want to go at a check or a key for James survivable yeah I’m not a close student of the Libyan situation Olivia quality it’s clearly the movement across the Mediterranean took place as a result of the collapse of the libyan state post-gaddafi I don’t think that was thought through very clearly but those are involved opposing Gaddafi I think the whole living situation has actually gone out and focus a little bit the last couple of weeks simply because my greater group from the river Balkans has become so much more dominant in terms of addressing the whole question of human smuggling and people coming across the Mediterranean and clearly the disarray that exists within Libya has clearly to sell as I did that movement of people can i pick up on that yeah i mean i just checking the statement from the communication commission this week and certainly I mean there is still an interest in Libya from the European Union and part of it that people may well be aware of as being the move to actually try and disrupt the smuggling by even looking at permission to take out the you know any potential boat etc the area and 2d also in the territory with you know with those dealing with that but there certainly ongoing efforts to try and actually get some sort of political agreements on some political discussion and certainly that you know there were proposals on the table I think even this week you know trying to bring very sort of parties together to actually try and find at least you know cease far away forward etc which have not abduct and I’ve got colleagues who’ve been in Libya very recently who say that you know and it’s quite depressing to hear but from what they were hearing from the various one parties in sensor they were dealing with there is almost no real desire on the ground to actually come to necessarily a political conclusions in this don’t you know because people feel that they’re going on to win and you know that that was one of the strands coming through so it’s it’s another ongoing problem but you’re right you know it’s not only Syrian and happening along some North Africa certainly you know also needs needs investment of time and energy to actually try and find some sort of stability and way forward there maybe I don’t say a word about the operation that you just mentioned her on the seventh knocked over the e used an operation called Operation Sophia the purpose of which if I’ve got the language ride is to identify sees divert and destroy boats carrying irregular migrants and refugees whatever we like to call them and to me this is just an expensive public relations stunts and waste of money because the smugglers don’t travel on the bubbles so you can

you can intercept these boats but you’ll probably find some poor refugee with the cheap who’s been given the GPS to steer the boat you’re not going to get the beat the kingpins of the smuggling movement by intercepting the boat so it seems to me like and boats are destroyed anyway when once they land about the destroyed so I don’t really see what the advantage to be going from this operation is if any of you are looking for an interesting dissertation topic to write you might want to look at the most of the expert yeah you have a look at the way that the european union led in many ways by the UK have managed to get the UN Security Council chapter seven resolution to delete item eyes this operation chapter seven resolutions are intended to counter threats to international peace and security you might want to ask the question as to whether even in the numbers of their becoming refugees coming on those from Libya really do represent the threads and peace and security in Europe we’ll open up to another question that girl in blue creature I let some 23 i’m studying master pure mathematics thank you thank you time you want so many thank you I sort of think hosting this I was quite disappointed when I walked in when when I saw them sitting next to each other because i was expecting in the dates and they’re agreeing and are they hurt each other for that the man was at the time and I’m actually I’m missing one point completely and i hope you will debate a bit about it I’m missing the edit value’ refugees very a revenue and to society you were mentioning it costs lots of money but it might be back and I mean I think there’s absolutely a question about that and there’s even a conspiracy theories in France that quite respectable ones that all from respectful people on that rephrase that didn’t that angular Merkel has actually done this as a way to bring in cheap labor and to sort out the country’s pension problems by bringing water often middle-class educated english-speaking university level people and to rejuvenate a German economy which has been suffering terribly from aging and a falling workforce and this is undoubtedly true it does not affect the the short-term problem of assimilation and our people and of a feeling in it in a functioning democracy that they’re being overwhelmed by people and one of the times i was in machete which is a former german army base now disused has been converted to a refugee mason center its Sun intended to accommodate thousand people it has 3,500 people in it with a further hundred arriving in the United autonomous teton has a population of 5,000 of course it’s in the talin it’s not a lot closed prison by any means the gates are opening come girls they like and let disaster the tabular Stefan is now a 50-percent Syrian or Afghan map it’s all completely peaceful there doesn’t seem to be any any obvious problem with it but the people of the town look around them and say you know is this our future and if it is we don’t want we don’t want it like this we don’t want it this fast so there is a very real short-term problem of how to accommodate educate get hospital beds to G cosine jeebies to and just built under houses for more what may turn out to be inaccessible million people but there is no question but further down the line it may turn out economically proved extremely beneficial I think there is a fair recognition yeah I mean it’s a great question is one that I’m really torn about to be honest the organization are you to work for UNHCR has quite a well-known t-shirt and the slogan on the t-shirt is Einstein was a refugee and when I see that t-shirt which I’ve ever tickly like oh we’ve read into it that it’s any other message you’d be taken a couple of thousand refugees you might be lucky enough to get one Einstein there’s a basic most refugees are nine states that may have skills qualities education but they’re not go inside so you know I think it is a slippery slope where you start arguing for refugee admissions on the basis of the skills that they bring with them because you know what about the only what about the disabled what about the uneducated so I think it’s a slippery slope to start arguing that we bring in refugee because they have something that they can give to us rather more the humanitarian parative

which was the basis of I’ll open up to the back there this that guy with glasses hi I’m George I’m the head of Sarai sympathetic my question is in light of the pepper in the future we’re going to be dealing with climate Wars and refugees because of climate change do you not think as a European body we might better spend our time rather than kind of massaging people were saying you know this is fine it’s only until we saw out of Syria it might actually be better off saying that in the long term we’re just going to have to get used to lots of relatives and actually we need to have a long term solution to rather than just saying it will be fine my favor position jenna I don’t think it’s alternatives and I think that you know that one of the things about issues about some of displacement of people’s linked to climate change is that you know part of that may well be Europeans going elsewhere and I think that to look at you know it you’ll have to look at that globally just as in many respects you enough to it in the whole sort of question of refugees as well because as we know not all refugees by any manner of means come to the European Union so I think you know we need at times to sort of look again at this with a global focus rather than a sort of Eurocentric focus but I mean it’s certainly true that you know all the sort of the estimates are that you’re going to see an increasing number of people moving because of climate change not all of those will go across order the research that the European Union has done so far tells you that most people will simply move within their country as you know more or less happens now that you know and it becomes very difficult at times as well to define exactly why it is that people of moon so you know while it’s also a question of climate change it’s also an issue about governance it’s an issue about adaptation but it doesn’t mean that you can take your eye off the ball on climate that’s certainly if we’re looking at Syria their voice you know people saying now well look at the background of drought which also you know and how did the government handle that very badly so therefore you already had a creation a greater instability on the ground which you know makes people react in ways that they might otherwise not have done so it’s part of the contribution to increasing instability therefore it needs to be taken extremely seriously for a whole set of reasons but a lot of those reasons are not to do with displacement and I spent quite a lot of time working with organizations that work on development work on environment as well as all refugee organizations work with refugees to try and make sure that we don’t keep talking about avalanches it were of climate change refugees coming at us because a lot of the time what that does is make it much more difficult for people to actually deal with a refugee situation that we have you know it becomes frightening it becomes it’s difficult enough now but you know the idea that look you know if we don’t do something oh my god I think actually really doesn’t help us necessarily deal with climate change you have to look at it yes it’s important people will move it makes life increasingly difficult but you know I think we need to be very careful about linking it with this idea that there are going to be in the usual words sort of floods tsunamis they’re usually portable than something you know of people moving because you know it doesn’t necessarily get you the reactions that you want in order to actually solve the problems that you have can I just ask the audience anybody studying law here I can’t go to be very generous and give you another dissertations of it terms of the questions sure the international refugee law will be expanded to include people displaced by climate change in natural disasters is already quite a literature on it but it’s quite an interesting thing you might want to think about study if you don’t have time to write that down you can definitely check on the YouTube account that we have orientation I saw at Veronica the question yeah so maybe the front door just Veronica Mars next century foundation I just have a question that um why do you have to move all these people they’re very happy where they are if you could find a safe haven that they could go to it in their own country you wouldn’t have to move them I mean these

you see is a desperate they would like to stay in their own countries why move them to what other countries they don’t want to go to why not keep them where they up and get us little safe haven in area area you see the area and why not spend money on getting up safe safe little spot that they can stay in safely in their own country James Jeff I mean I suspect the reason is that people are moving move themselves and thank you great deal of money to do it for what you say is absolutely right by making them feel safe when they are it may be like the Lord of water stay there certainly not I don’t think Michael ordered it particularly circumstances of what’s happened but so I think all of the won’t do i do want to stay of creating safety and a degree of fun a physical comfort and ensuring the problem food supplies accommodation is obviously vital but i don’t think anybody’s moving them they are moving themselves I mean in the in the earlier mid-1990s it was a lot of thought given to the whole notion of safe havens in countries of origin countries are affected by our countrymen rights violations and the boy some efforts in northern Iraq him in the Balkans and ensure languidly to try and establish some such safe havens I mean the fact of the matter is that if you’re trying to create a safe haven in a war-torn country you can only do it with the use of military force and I don’t think you know people may want to live in their own country but do they want to live in a highly militarized situation where they depend the Armed Forces of another country provided when some basic level of protection sorry crisis we’ve got air coming so we’ll be fine are there any other questions that I can open up to yeah just speak up though my name is Alex of my wrist entertaining my question is for he lumber used you spoke a bit about Theresa May saying that there’s pressure on social cohesion in Britain what do you think as the member for London about that and what do you think it says if anything all about Brittany okay parody the mike has given our in that put so I reserve the right not to answer and that the young I think in terms of the issue about social cohesion it it doesn’t necessarily happen by accident and you know that I think if you look back over sort of London’s certainly sin you know the last bump for some of you being before your lifetimes that you know people tend to a lot of people tend to think of London or somewhere which is you know relatively socially cohesive in the sense that you don’t necessarily have sort of particular ghettos like you have in some parts them the world that you don’t necessarily people see people as you would in Paris being sort of stuck out in the bonilla in order to you know keep people out of the way and the unit societies generally most of the time get along reasonably well that’s not an accident that’s because one hell of a lot of work actually went into that and in many respects is still going on in that in those senses about how you bring communities together how people actually learn to you know learn about each other I think one of the big mistakes were made in this country was that this feeling that you know that sort of effort was only needed in places where actually you had communities from different countries different backgrounds different faiths and we didn’t actually put that work in sort of 20 miles down the road you know where I now live where I was brought up if you know in Essex which is a different country in many respects and so the you know it’s not the only place like that so I think that if we’re looking at you know they bring more people in whether it’s through resettlement whether it’s through the leave relocation schemes whatever else it is that the efforts that also have to go on with that are about sort of explaining and bringing people together so that people do work as communities and so that you’re being very careful about explaining why people are here why they have the assistance that they have that you know that asylum seekers are not work shine asylum seekers are not allowed to work you know so that people actually understand what’s going on and while back the European Union ran a program called equal which was you know one of the pilot projects that they do with a whole set of pilot projects going on in different countries different places and it had a strand for asylum seekers within it on one of the very strong lessons that came out of that was that if you’re looking at integration it starts at day one for asylum seekers and

it starts the day before does it work for the communities that they are coming to and I think this is one of the things that the European Union has really got to get its head around with this because exactly because James was saying the sort of resistance that you are seeing is in large part with people thinking what the hell is going on here nobody asked me nobody’s talking to me and yet we also see that there’s a lot of civil society that really wants to be engaged look at the number of people who are saying I’ve got a spare room I mean they obviously weren’t living in social housing and Lucy housing benefit over it but you know either spare room I’m willing to help with you look at what was happening so within faith communities who were not saying I’m only taking somebody who comes in wearing across you know that that effort is there it can be harnessed and I think that one of the things that governments need to do and indeed you know not just government throughout society is actually do that to harness that goodwill and to actually try and find some sort of grounding which provides a bump to the marina pens and others of this for who I here far too much all in the European Parliament what I mean dear she’s not there that optimal when she speaks far too much from my point of view so we have time fee we have time for one more question yes the gentleman in the back just raise your voice okay yes okay under God my vision is what will and should have been other these wars are over in Syria raining where people are you can can say to their and multan help pass the established community what’s the habit of the devotional bad or just send them back quite important and let me tell you a number of people I’ve spoken to and I almost always in the course conversation say what are your hopes here you here forever or do you want to go back and I would say a roundabout half say no absolute we want to go back we love our country that’s where we want to be ha the other half say no no no we’ve got out what staying out so I think with a large number of them there won’t be any issue forcing them back and quite often you do fine you saw back in Lebanon after the after the fighting 15 years Civil War there finally came to an end in the early 80s that a lot of the Diaspora went back and helped rebuild the country sword as an opportunity but anyway it was their home and it doesn’t work when the war is over i cannot see that part of the Middle East being rebuilt on the basis of borders that were drawn up largely by the british in the early 1920s I think there’d be the sectarian and ethnic divide there now between Sunni and Shia and Kurds among others are now probably too great to wear the poor countries like an Iraq Iraq and Syria back together again but that’s an extremely off the record on official view alignment I hope you are put out on ritalin conservative is an ITV view that’s not I mean there’s a condom there’s kind of a matram eung humanitarian organizations that the only thing a refugee want to do is to go back to their home and as James and said that’s not necessarily the case and my suspicions particularly the case of Syria is that the proportion not wanting to go I will be relatively large compared to other refugee situations but because the traumatic experiences they’ve gone through before flight but also because of the sheer level of devastation but we were all talking a few minutes ago about the possibility of a future with Syria with a sad still in power I mean how is a sad going to mobilize kind of reconstruction funding for the internet community interest in dinner for Jeff 81 when once they have a passport a European Passport the willingness to go back to go back in the certain knowledge that you’ve always you can always get out again it is correct I’ve always said to this home office if you want refugees to go and give them a British possible that’s the quickest way you can because they’ve got an escape escape route if anything goes wrong once I’ve got my time and I think it’s going to be very interesting and maybe somewhat depressing to see what happens if some kind of more peaceful situation emerges in Syria to see a whether people go back and if they do go about what kind of support they’re going to go back to well I’ve been asked to make an announcement about the upcoming case mean tank relaunch event this is kind of a teaser run pretty to know what our discussions are going to be like and what to first seem to want to foresee the relaunch event is on Monday Lord Paddy Ashdown is coming we welcome everyone to come on Tuesday sorry on Tuesday and we also have an announcement from Sofia concerning the spectrum which is our journal devil publishing hi everyone my name is a beer I am one of the European affairs editors for the spectrum which is the think tanks

journal on make it nice and brief we’re basically looking for people to write for the spectrum it’s possible possibly like a policy recommendation we cover Mirage of issues from defence and diplomacy to energy in the environment so if you’re willing to write for us do not cause it so if you if you want to work for us do not hesitate to contact any of us me or any of the other editors and we’re around we can send us an email I look forward to hearing from you Thanks thank you so can we get a round of applause for thank you so much for coming we hope to see you in the future