Fermenting Brains. A Journey to Mugaritz microworld. Andoni Luis Aduriz and Ramon Perisé

OK, so hello, everybody My name’s Dave Weitz I’m here with Pia Sorensen We’re both at Harvard And this is a public lecture series that’s associated with a course that we teach on science and cooking And so there are probably some new people who normally don’t come to this, usually maybe I give you a little bit of a background This is a course that we’ve been teaching for– I guess this is the 11th year And it started with some chefs from Barcelona region in Spain They visited Harvard– Ferran Adria visited Harvard, and from that, this course was born And each week, as part of the course, we have a chef visit us at Harvard lecture to the course, and we also share that with our neighbors in Cambridge by having them give a puppet lecture But with the pandemic, we can’t do that So instead, we’re doing everything by Zoom and we want to again share our discussions with the chefs with everybody And now because it’s by zoom, we can share with everybody in the world The tradition for the public lectures is that the chefs will tell us about the wonderful things they do, but since the class itself is about science and cooking, Pia and I have a little bit of introduction, where we talk a little bit about the science that we do– that we discuss in the class to try and put that in format And you’ll see that we have a certain number of traditions, which we will ask you to join us with Let me say, at the beginning, that these lectures are sponsored by the National Science Foundation through the Harvard Material Science Center, MRSEC, as well as some companies in Barcelona, like Astronomy, 1933 and Escata And Brod and Taylor, Shimadzu, who both support are part of the course So this week– the next slide This week we’re very fortunate to have Andoni Luis Aduriz and Ramon Perise from Mugaritz’s restaurant, the chef and the director of fermentation and R&D And we are looking forward very much to learn about this I’ll say, you’ll hear when Pia talks that it’s– fermentation is one of her great expertise She’s a real expert on this and loves to talk about it But we also do a lot of things with it and just to set the stage for everything On the next slide, you might ask, does this have anything to do with fermentation? And this is a graph– this is the kind of thing that we show in our class– and we are going to ask everybody to participate and we have a poll The question is, does this graph– what does this graph represent? Does it represent the number of COVID-19 cases in New York City in March 2020? Does it represent the number of microbes in sauerkraut as a function of time? Both of these are a function of time Or does it represent both of the above? And please answer the poll and let’s see what everybody thinks Please join us The polls should appear on your screen It’s both in English and in Spanish About half the people have tried to tell me what the answer is I’ll wait just a minute more If you think you know, please tell us

If you’re not sure, please choose one or the other and we’ll discuss both of them Please join us for the poll We like to hear from everybody who’s listening or watching OK So there are still people adding Do we stop? Yes OK So here’s the results About 2/3 of the people said it’s 1 and 2, it’s both of them 30% correctly identified the growth of the sauerkraut 3% correctly identified the growth of the number of cases of COVID-19 in New York City And 2/3 of everybody correctly identified– in fact, the correct answer– that this is in fact, both the number of cases in– number of cases of COVID-19 in New York City at the early days and it’s the growth of the microbes And here is just an example of that On your right, we see some sauerkraut and as we start to prepare it, the microbes, which through the fermentation, are starting to grow And on the left, we see the growth of the number of cases in New York City That would be the same whether you do it in New York City, in Madrid, in France, anywhere This is really what we call an exponential growth and this is– let me see if I can draw– this is the equation that we use for exponential growth You see there’s an exponential here And it starts with some number and this is telling you the number as a function of time and this constant, k, is just the half life that takes– how long it takes for the number to double and it just doubles in every time, tau And this is a science class so you would think you wouldn’t see equations in– when we talk about cooking, but we do try to have equations when we talk about cooking And our tradition in the class is that everybody should clap So please join us and clap your hands Everybody who’s watching, please clap your hands We like to see equations OK So that’s the science of what we’re talking about On the next slide, I think Pia is going to tell you some more about why it’s important for food and the differences in the type of fermentation that takes place So Pia, please Thanks, Dave So sometimes I start this lecture by asking everyone, so what do all these foods have in common? And usually since this sort of theme of this week is fermentation Everyone is like, fermentation So I’m not going to ask you that today because you’re going to be very active in this lecture anyway because there’s going to be a lot of polls, lots of questions from Ramon and Andoni But let’s pause and just look at this picture All of these foods, all of them, have been in some way or another transformed by fermentation with the help of microbes And it– sort of diversity of flavor you get thanks to these microbes should really sort of stand out as you look at these images and think about what all these foods taste like I mean everything from the kind of strength of soy sauce, the richness of a soy sauce, to fermented meats, olives, tempeh, sauerkraut, all kinds of cheeses, just the diversity of cheeses There are some real interesting fermented ones here, like the Icelandic Hákarl, which is fermented shark All of them have been transformed by microbes and that’s what sort of theme of this week is This theme– this week really kind of marks a bit of a philosophical shift in our series And I say that because usually when we think about cooking, we think about cooking with heat We think about all the transformations that happen in food because of heat So we cook an egg, we boil things, we fry things In this lecture, we’re talking about all kinds of cooking

that you can do with microbes And so the philosophical shift is really that, as you all know, heat usually kills microbes and in this case, we do not want to kill the microbes In fact, we want to create an environment where the microbes are striving, are thriving and sort of happily transforming food for us So a lot of recipes a lot of fermentation recipes are kind of– they include steps that are aimed at creating this very special environment that keeps the microbes alive, as opposed to kind of just killing them OK So I’m going to start by asking you to take a deep breath And as I was preparing this lecture and even now as I tell you, I have this feeling that there are all these people– there’s several hundreds of you out there listening to this lecture and all of you right now, you’re taking a deep breath So take a deep breath and then breathe out, like you’re really yoga breath A deep breath in and a deep breath out, you keep doing that Breathe in and out And as you do that, think about what molecules are you breathing in and what molecules are you breathing out What molecules in, what molecules come out And as you continue breathing, keep breathing It’s a good cleansing exercise anyway Think about what happens to your lunch– depending on your time zone– on your lunch maybe even your breakfast, maybe your dinner, as you’re breathing in and out And of course, the answer is that as you’re breathing in, you’re breathing in oxygen, you’re breathing out carbon dioxide And in the process, your body is using the oxygen to transform the energy that is in the food into energy that you can eat– sorry, into energy that you can use– that you can use just to stay alive, watch zoom lectures like this one, clap for equations, and do all the kinds of things you do OK So now you’ve been breathing for a while and I’m going to ask you to now take a deep breath in and now hold your breath And keep holding it and holding it for as long as you can I can’t see your faces, but this is usually the point in the lecture where people start to look really sort of strange and they’re like, I’m just going to do it I’m going to show her that I can hold my breath for a really long time OK So if you haven’t stopped already, please stop now So how did that go? So what I’m guessing is that it probably didn’t go so well and at some point, you had to basically give up and take a deep breath, right? But if you were a microbe and in fact, if you were one of the microbes that are usually responsible for transforming our food in food fermentations, you would happily just have switched over or in fact, you would maybe have preferred that way of metabolizing anyway and you would just have sort of continued to metabolize your lunch without any oxygen present OK so this exercise is inspired by my colleague, Roberto who I teach a class with And basically, to summarize, so what you first did is called respiration This is a process of using oxygen to transform the glucose and turn it into energy and out comes carbon dioxide And the other mode of fermentation is called– the other mode of metabolism is called fermentation So really what the word fermentation means is the biological word that we use to describe metabolism when it happens without oxygen. So these days we use for the word fermentation as a way to just describe what happens– what we do when we transform foods with microbes, it refers to that process But originally, it comes from the fact that the microbes that do that for us are using that kind of metabolism They’re using fermentation as a way to metabolize So there are two main kind of players in food fermentations And I just want to introduce you to them The first is any kind of alcoholic fermentation These produce carbon dioxide and ethanol And the other one is any kind of lactic acid fermentation

So this is the kind of metabolism that happens in your muscles when you get really, really tired It is also the kind of metabolism that happens in lactic acid bacteria when you make things like yogurt or cheese or pickles So the most common one is summarized here The most common kind of yeast– the most common alcoholic fermenter is Saccharomyces cerevisiae, takes the sugar, transforms it into carbon dioxide and ethanol, occurs in beer, bread, wine, and many others The other one is lactic acid fermentations which is by these bacteriums– things like Lactobacillus, Lactococcus– also take sugar, carbohydrates, and they transform it into lactic acid And this includes any kind of fermentation from kimchi to sauerkraut, yogurt, cheese, and many others So those are kind of the two main ones There is the third one, which I think is especially important to mention before this lecture Which is any fermentation that happens with molds And molds are multicellular fungi They grow these filaments which this beautiful apple here is actually covered with And they also transform foods in various ways They occur in all kinds of traditional food fermentations But they’re also one of– I would say– one of the hallmarks of the fermentations that take place at Mugaritz And in fact when we went for the last few years to write our book on science and cooking, which is coming out in October– we will put a link in the chat if you’re interested in preordering it– when we put this together and we wanted a really awesome example of the kinds of things modern chefs do with mold fermentations, we reached out to Ramon and Andoni And we were like, please, please? Could we include one of your recipes and they very generously and kindly said yes And– and this is the recipe we’re including And so if you like this kind of stuff, then there’s more of that in this book OK so this is, I think, the perfect segue way into my introduction of Andoni and Ramon It’s a real, real pleasure to have both of them here They’ve actually visited this lecture series once before several years ago And we’ve been really eager to have them back and now, now it all worked out in COVID times So Andoni Luis Aduriz is the chef and owner of Mugaritz and Ramon Perise is the Director of Fermentation and the Head of R&D and, together with the rest of their team, they are behind Mugaritz which is really, I think, one of the places in the world that are really pushing the boundaries on innovation and haute cuisine They’re also really pushing the boundaries on– what on the diner experience of what it means to eat, what does it mean– what is food They’re constantly having events or philosophical discussion and I think what we’re going to be exposed to today is a real deep dive into just the crazy creative stuff that has come out of their kitchen So please join me in welcoming Ramon and Andoni [SPEAKING SPANISH] Sí, yo soy I will be the translator tonight OK [SPEAKING SPANISH] So is a big, big pleasure to be here with all of you tonight And I want to thank everybody who is watching this lecture because sometimes we feel maybe wrong that what we do is very important but to share it is more important Bueno [SPEAKING SPANISH]

So, first of all, I want to deliver two ideas First of all is to say that beyond the technique, we are very focused on the cultural side of the gastronomy of the food in Mugaritz and we like always to share with other disciplines our work Because gastronomy is something with a lot of many different phases So you can watch to gastronomy from fermentation or from sociology from anthropology or from, whatever, engineering and so on [SPEAKING SPANISH] Yes, so we want to explain how the human beings made culture out of garbage OK [SPEAKING SPANISH] So, the main idea is when the milk spoiled, we had– we discover the cheese When the grape spoiled, we discover the wine When the apples spoil, we discover the cider And nowadays where everything– all the products, one day or another, will be out of date OK We, maybe today, we didn’t have the chance to discover this kind of fermented food So now we try to understand what’s happening and we tried to make culture out of it and we tried to bring this fermented food to the expression of excellence [SPEAKING SPANISH] So the vision of Mugaritz or the way that Mugaritz understand the gastronomy is always poetic So beyond the processes, beyond the techniques, beyond the results, we always try to build this poetic vision in Mugaritz [SPEAKING SPANISH] So Andoni says, thank you so much I hope that– I know that you will enjoy this lecture because he knows me very well And I had a problem with that presentation

because I like to speak to– I like to speak very much And I like to show everything that way we made here and what I do with all the team And the problem was to choose what to explain and what to show So here, you will see tonight the result of around 10 years of working with a team, 10 years of experimentation with fermentation [SPEAKING SPANISH] Enjoy Thank you Gracias, Andoni Gracias, Ramon Well so good to go So I will show the screen now to show you the presentation I have to say that, before the– few minutes ago, I have been speaking with Patricia to organize everything I have a few things to show here in Mugaritz I’m in the development and research kitchen right now and in that process of tell and show, maybe we will go straight to the tell after we will show everything, and then we will have time for the questions and maybe for the answers OK so let’s go Thank you everybody to be here OK It works? Perfect So we go to this lecture “Fermenting Brains” because as you– as PSA fermentation is transformation and that’s what we try to do here in Mugaritz We try to transform the brains, to transform the way to look, OK, to gastronomy So, whoa problems OK OK, let me see OK I am going to show the screen again [SPEAKING SPANISH] Here It’s working? It is working? Yes Yes Perfect So first of all, I want to show you what is– this is Mugaritz A little– a little place in the middle of the mountains– in the middle of the nature So it is placed here because 22 years ago Andoni looking for a place for his restaurant He found that place which was the cheapest place in the area So we start here and it was a little bit far away from San Sebastian but nowadays this is a very, very– as you see– is a very beautiful place and the surroundings always have an influence in your work This is an old tree, just to know that Mugaritz is a work in Euskera made with muga, which means age or border, and aritz, which mean old tree So this old oak tree 200 years old or more or less, is in the border between two villages, between Errenteria and Astigarraga And this is very important because we tried to put that idea of border, of age, in our philosophy and gastronomy We like to be in that thin line, in that border, in that place between the good, and the bad, the salty, and the taste and the untaste OK is not easy to be there but that is the way that we choose to go with our gastronomy So this is a table in Mugaritz The table is always naked when you arrive to the restaurant because we understand that the guest is the one who has to build the whole experience, is the one who has to discover everything This is part of that poetic way to understand gastronomy Our kitchen, with the team And here we have, where I am right now, this is the development and research kitchen We started with a kitchen in 2007-2008 and it was a big step beyond in our creative process

because here we have everything to develop creativity We have the stage, we have the time, and we have the team, we have the development and research team which is very important to go beyond So what is Mugaritz? Mugaritz is at least a context, is a context to be creative, is a context to develop your creativity And here we try to give all the tools to everybody, to our chefs and to our guests, to be more creative So I always try to– I like to say that if everybody is more creative, the world would be a little bit better Because to be creative, you are– you have to be in the good mood So maybe it’s important And this is what we try to do in Mugaritz with our guest No, but in that different pictures, he is our mate, Javier, part of the development and research team Is not the– these faces are not talking about deliciousness or happiness, all of them Some of them are talking about doubt or talking about fear or talking about suspiciousness So that’s why we trying to do here, we tried to create that these different emotions, different emotions in our front house So that’s the question Why? Why fermentation? During the– during the lecture, the presentation, you will see a few questions and maybe some links to books or papers related to the explanation Here is just to ask, do you ferment something at home– something at home? Yes or no? So I see here no, no, 60% So the people ferment a lot of things at home, which is very, very good and very, very interesting That’s good That’s good So the next question– I cannot do it– maybe this is what you ferment? But here is the other one, why we ferment nowadays? To preserve our food, to make our food tastier, to make our food healthier, to make our food stinkier, or to preserve our culture? Here we go To make our food tastier is the winner Is it? Yes Somebody things that we– we love to make our food stinkier So, yes, that question, to be honest, doesn’t have the right question, could be all of them at least But yes, nowadays in gastronomy we ferment food to use it as a taste enhancer Yes, but in the history, as Andoni said before, to eat was something very dangerous, extremely dangerous OK So little by little, we have been learning what to eat and what not to eat So here we have some fermented food, very traditional Cheese, bread, apples, cider And here, we have a mother of vinegar OK, from a friend of us And this– the smell and the taste of fermentation is the smell and the taste of our culture So this kind of food, we have to learn to eat it and to enjoy it So is part of this ongoing process OK pass a generation to generation Is very interesting because the root of the work culture is the same for cultures related to microbes And here this is one of the oldest food enhancers which is the garum The garum is the, let’s say, the fish sauce of the Mediterranean And a few years ago, we started producing or own garum here

in Mugaritz It’s made off anchovies, sardines, bonito, and different fishes Later on, I will show you how we prepare our garum here in Mugaritz OK We prepare the base a few months ago I have here one bottle of garum and I will show you how we prepare it Here you can see the book De re Coquinaria in which you can see the garum in around The word garum appears 461 times So almost in all recipes you have garum, use it as a, let’s say, taste enhancer, taste enhancer Or maybe to cover the bad taste of the food because they don’t have freezers and things like that in the Roman times Here you can see a few pictures about how we prepare the garum and one question, is the garum a truly fermentation? So here we got 25% no Well that question is very interesting because I ask this very question to Sandor Katz one time Is the garum fermented food? And he told me that yes, it is And it’s very interesting because in the encyclopedia of gastronomy of one of them, which is called Larousse Gastronomique, if you want just a description of fermentation, there is a world– OK?– called ferments So the transformation made out of microbes and ferments And if you look the definition of ferments is related to the enzymes So when you transform something with enzymes you can consider this food as well fermentation because fit in the definition of fermentation, transformation In that case– in that case we can discuss that later on Maybe, but– Here you can see how we prepare the garum In that case, we use an old recipe in which we add automatic herbs to the preparation And we don’t do it like this right now, we have skipped the herbs Because with the herbs in the garum sometimes get drained and we don’t like this It works perfectly, but sometimes we fail with herbs So which is very important is to use the fish To cut the fish, if you use the whole fish, to put in contact old enzymes from the intestines with the protein Blend this fish with salt and let it go one month, two month, three months If you are on a hurry and keeping in mind that the process is made with enzymes, you can put this garum in a hot box– in a hot box around 40 degrees, 45 degrees and the process we just made in, maybe two or three months, it will happens in around 11 days So this is one way to enhance the speed of transformation, in that case So back to our history or our relation with the fermentation And when we bought this book in 2000– are you going to say in around 2010-2011– it was spectacular What we discovered in that little book from Sandor was an invitation we discover all this world So we never hear about the [INAUDIBLE] or koji or kombucha or– not, no not [INAUDIBLE]—- or amazake or kimchi or the rice bowls and so on So we found something to play here, in the development and research department and then we start to play with the microorganisms And since 2011, we developed so many iconic different dishes

based on the technique of fermentation And as the Andoni say it, if there is a sixth taste, it is that taste of histories And this is our will, to explain histories through fermentation So to use fermentation as a method for– to talk about terroir, to talk about transformation, to talk about uncertainty, to talk about doubt, control, or complexity So open your mind not only your mouth This is a quote from a nice book, write for a journalist, called “The cuisine of a country, it’s the landscape in a dish.” So here you can see a rock painting cave from Valencia The people say that these are woman collecting honey, although people say that this is an astronaut with spaceships But the point is that to ferment– to ferment honey, you only need water and the honey, and a little bit of water or humidity and the honey And it seems that the mead– the mead was the first their alcoholic beverage Maybe, who knows A few years ago, we started to produce mead here in Mugaritz Very easy We blend water and honey, then we expose this mixture in our garden to the air, just trying to collect all the– is a kind of a romantic idea– to collect all the yeast floating in your garden Then we ferment this mead during 30 days to 25 degrees very, very slowly to finally have this mead What we tried to do here– here we tried to express the idea of terroir So the expression of our landscape How to put the landscape in a bottle, how to put the landscape in a beverage Maybe through this yeast So it is very well known that, in the different cellars, they have their own kind of flora and yeast and this yeast brings the character to the drink And yet it is very, very, very important at least There is an experiment that the brothers used to make and which is very, very interesting I cannot do it right now, but I can explain it If you prepare water and sugar, a syrup, made out of water and sugar And you prepared two pots In one pot, you can put yeast to make beer and the other pot you can put yeast to make champagne After fermentation you can taste both and one will taste like beer and the other one will taste like champagne And it happens because that yeast So this is how important– the experiment is very interesting for me because explains how important is the yeast in the taste of the food But the terroir is a little bit– the idea of the terroir is beyond that For me the idea of terroir– the terroir– the idea of terroir is the expression of the land, the expression of the microbes in that space, the expression of the people who is working with the product So for me the terroir is that complete idea This is the piece that we made This is a bread soak in that– bread soak in honey mead, fermented with the yeast of our garden with the flowers in our garden and ice Here, I have to show you another mead So two years ago, we had the idea to preserve sea urchins in honey So we would take a kilos and kilos of honey to submerge the sea urchins in that honey So we serve the sea urchins and then we keep the honey So with that honey, aromatized with sea urchins, we prepared a mead So here we have the sea urchin mead which is very, very interesting Because you have these two layers of terroir The terroir from the sea and the terroir from our garden So the biofilms

For me, the this idea that you can see here– we saw this in our laboratory This is a Petri dish with this medium called PDA, potato dextrose agar, in which the scientist used to grow these bacterias Another question, do you think– do you think that our society is becoming bacteria phobic? Yes I think– I think with all this problem that we have right now this is absolutely true That we are becoming a little bit bacteria phobic Sometimes I used to think in this– in these– sci-fi movies with the invasion and the these little microorganisms are the ones who save humanity So maybe we have to keep that idea in mind So here when we saw this in the laboratory we realized that potato, dextrose, and agar, is something that we have already here in the restaurant So why not to grow a microorganism on the top of this gelatin So yeah we tried to do it We make apple puree with a little bit of gelatin and then we sit with zopus– Rhizopus oligosporus on top which is the mold used to produce the tempeh And it grows perfectly and it creates that amazing biofilm that looks like a carpet Very, very tricky So here I will show you a little recipe about how we produce this biofilm [MUSIC PLAYING] Very simple ingredients Simple steps First of all, hydrate gelatin We– we like to sanitize all the surfaces with ethanol before working, trying to skip this cross contamination that we sometimes have here So mix the agar with the lemon juice, heat it up until 90 degrees, try to strain it to remove the lumps Add the gelatin and spread it in trays And here we are seeding our tempeh Those little tips here, like to make holes in the plastic, which are very, very important And here we go So later on I will show you this carpet I have one here So this is something that was very interesting It seems like the surface is hydrophobic but it isn’t One day, a friend of ours measured the angle between the drop on the surface and they told us that it isn’t hydrophobic Here you can see how we invest our time in– in the laboratory here OK Well So transformation OK, here we use that carpet, that mycelium, made out– made of the Rhizopus to make that dish

In that case, this is a lamb loin smoked with eucalyptus bark, lime juice, and this here we tried to mimetize the wool of the lamb And the idea of transformation, which is very important here, in it this idea of transformation related to many religions If you note in the Catholic rituals, they use the red and the wine and the transformations in blood and body And both are fermented food which have been transformed before So here we write this article for the FOOL magazine which we explore the cultured food for the body and for the soul and the power of transformation in the modern times So here for me a very interesting question My food choices define my identity about– you have different person that just 10, 25, 50, 75, 100% or 0%? So understanding identity as 75% So yeah, your food choice– to choose your food sometimes is a way to make politics or to show your identity which is very, very important And you can– you can bring these ideas to many different levels The easy one to see is a– is a origin So here in– in Europe and East Europe or Western Europe, we have so many dishes related to that identity Well here you can see what happens when apple falls down of a tree Here in the Mugaritz we are surrounded by apple trees Because in that place there is a lot of cider houses The cider houses are here, because many years ago the Basque sailors needs the cider to travel very far away because the cider has a lot of vitamin C and they can escaped the scurvy That’s why– this is the big advantage of the Basque sailors in those times So here we have a lot of apples That you can see this feature very easily around here What we did is to grow this Rhizopus in this little apples, these wild apples called txalakas here in the Basque country So how we did that? So we took that apples, we peel it a little bit, we blanch it in water, and then we sit our Rhizopus on the apple and we let it grow We serve that bite with a drop of vodka just as a little appetizer at the beginning of menu And this apple– this apple bring us straight to this idea I will show you now a video So you will have the link to the page of the artist This is a video installation made with Sam Taylor, Sam Taylor-Wood and it’s called Still Life– Still Life And speaks about the time– about the pass of the time and about the, as well again, the transformation And now I will show you a little time lapse of our little apple With that little dish, we–

we will reached two different things One thing is this velvety texture, which was unknown in gastronomy And the other one was to create that doubt in our guest OK We like to say that our guest has to be our accomplice because you’re not completely– you know is a sort of mutual understanding and trust in the other, almost friendship So to eat or not to eat? That’s the question for us, OK? So the question Where is the difference with things between fermented and rotten? Fermented food and rotten food There is no difference It depends of your culture, it depends on your point of view There is a difference Fermented is good and rotten is bad OK So fermented is good and rotten is bad Well For me– for me, the answer 1, 2, and 3 All three are good Even the fourth one is good as well So there is no answers on here, only questions So to illustrate that Here, you have a quote– a quote from a paper in an Anthropology journal to speak about the use of putrid meat in the paleolithic And he is very interesting because he say that if you look at– look at a dead body– how is it called– a doctor will say, our forensic scientist will say that the process that is happening in that body is putrefaction And a food– and a food scientist will say that the process that it will happens– that is happening in that body is fermentation So sometimes it depends on the point of view, sometimes it depends on the culture Yes, because it happens that when you visit Japan, the first time that you taste the natto is something terrific Or even when the Japanese people comes to Europe and you show them these blue cheeses that we have around here, is terrific as well So it is something– is something very interesting, it’s very interesting At least depends, as well, on the culture Yeah? Coming back to the garum In the old times in the Roman Empire, it was forbidden to sell garum, wine, or oil to the barbarians OK, because these transformed food was the difference between the barbarians and the people with– with culture So, for me, the culture is the main thing in that case So let’s go Penicillium nalgiovense So take a look at the pictures What is this? Is fermented or is rotten? Rotten 39%, fermented OK the rest Well yes, is fermented In that case, is one of the, for me, from my point of view, it’s one of the most delicious things in the world, which is the jamón ibérico To visit that place where you have the jamón ibérico is amazing, amazing Each camera that you can see has a different smell, a different flavor from bakery to bread and so on Is incredible and you have all the flora growing on top of the jamón and giving to the jamón all the character and protecting the jamón from contamination So nowadays the industry is working with that molds just

in order to protect the food And we took one of these molds, called Penicillium nalgiovense, to grow it on top of the meat And here you can see cow meat with Penicillium nalgiovense and little drops of capers water So this is another way to take advantage of the microorganisms To preserve our food Here a little– So here, that kind of Penicillium used to grow on top of the pork meat or the pork sausages and it was very interesting because when we grow that mold on veal, the veal taste like pork It was very, very interesting How we can create this new animal which is the veal with that fungus So the Penicillium roqueforti is very well known for the Roquefort, yes? Which is the blue cheese made in– a kind of blue cheese made in France Here are some pictures which are beautiful So there is– there is this world, this microworld Is amazing So one question, which basic taste protect us from spoiled food? Yeah, the sour one Yes, the sour protect us from spoiled food and protect us from unripe fruits So– so that’s the next question Here is the picture Would you eat this if I tell you to do it? Well, well Muy bien! Well, well, well, well, well Again, just for a little bit So many people trust me Yes, this is the first time that we grow Penicillium roqueforti on bread, on bread So how we did this? We bought– we bought in cheese supplier the starter We dilute that starter in milk, then we soak the bread on the milk Why I asked you this? Because in those times, I have been working with a chef from New Zealand and– and she did all the process But she didn’t taste the bread until I tasted in front of her five, six, seven times So how we looked at bread is very, very interesting and how you think about this, which is what happens when you forget the bread on top of your freezer inside the plastic bag, made us to think how we can provoke our guests How we can create that thought, how we can create that kind of jump of faith to eat the food That’s the dish Later on I will show you We prepared that brioche, which is a brioche We use a syringe to inject this mold inside the brioche and to make it grow And it looked like a spoiled– spoiled bread At least, it taste really good because just like to eat brioche with the blue cheese So it’s of a synthesized blue cheese sandwich As well– as well is very interesting

because we have full control about this bread We tried to let it grow just randomly because it seems that is natural but we can let it grow– we can make it grow in different patterns So we have full control about this mold when we make that dish So how we made this, in that case, is another one for, first of all we sanitize We dilute a few drops of the starter in milk, we soak the brioche in milk, and then we left fermented And we have that superficial growing of the mold Sometimes it happened that we have cross contamination And we have to be able to realize, OK, if this is good edible or not for the human beings So here you will see the patterns that you can create growing Penicillium roqueforti on yogurt, which is hypnotic As well is possible to grow this Penicillium roqueforti on fruits So how we do that? In that case, is a pear So the technique is to take the bear, peel it, and then we put the pear in a calcium bath, just in order to create a surface, so the calcium reacts with the pectins of the fruit to create a new pectatos de calcio, which is a second skin And because it becomes a little bit harder, allowed us to cook for a long, long, long, long time the food without losing the shape So after the calcium bath, we use the amount of 2% calcium in one liter of water around three hours We cook that pear in lactose syrup for a long, long time, until the inside is melt. Then we put that pear– we submerged that pear in our diluted starter roqueforti and we let ferment And then we have that pear that looks like a spoiled pear but at least is a pear with blue cheese We fill that pear with a foam made out of that pear distillated Sometimes it happens that the mold goes wild and looks very, very interesting I took the pictures because I like to ask to microbiologist if it’s edible for the human beings when this mold goes wild, and it is Then the Penicillium candidum Here, we jump from the Penicillium roqueforti which is the blue cheese to Penicillium candidum which is the mold that grows in this kind of cheeses, like Brie, Camembert, Saint Marcellin, Saint Félicien And so– and so is a white mold Here you have– you can see some pictures of this mold which are amazing And the first time that we grow the mold was on bread in 44 hours at 29 degrees We have this beautiful and fluffy bread, which was very interesting and taste like– like cheese And then we start to create– to develop our dish So using the same technique as the Petri dishes and using a blend of heavy cream and milk and gelatin Then we can grow these molds on top It happens that when it grows wild it creates a lot of gas and make this kind of cloud which are very interesting You know but is a little bit too much Here you can see how the enzymes are melting the gelatin absolutely under this short phase It’s amazing I have to say that the taste is a little bit bitter, a little bit bitter So one idea was to grow this cheese straight on the dish So we start playing and at least, we did it

We grow the mold straight on the dish Here we can see this How we made that dish so is special? Think about it We have the gelatin, the mold on top, and then we serve cream concentrate of apple And what happens is that we put the dish in the oven or in the microwave a few seconds, the gelatin melts completely and when you touch the surface with your spoon, it breaks down and then kind of a white liquid comes up and blend with this apple juice And– and it happens that you don’t know how we did it and it creates you that– that idea of doubt of our scent uncertainly, which is very interesting to feel that this in a table So creativity has neither rules nor masters Botrytis cinerea Here I have– my thing is we have a question on here, maybe This is grapes with Botrytis that you can see in different parts of the world My question is, what’s the difference between the noble rot and the grey rot in grapes? There are different molds, the weather, the use of pesticides They are different molds I think Botrytis cinerea could be in the noble rot and could be the grey– the grey rot In the case of the grapes, depends on the weather, on the weather, yes To create these Botrytis wines, you need a humidity in the morning and then you need dry weather and wind in the afternoon If you have humidity the whole day long, the noble rot becomes the grey rot and you lose all the crop Yes So the conditions in which the mold grows define one name or other So keeping that idea in mind of control Let’s say how we can control the nature and we develop that dish which is the Botrytis In that case, is an apple and we serve that apple with four different wines made out of Botrytis and grapes from the four zones, the four famous zones around the world which are France, Austria, Germany, and Hungary Here we have the apple So the look is very challenging We fill that apple with a marmalade made with orange and different spices, because you can find orange marmalade, the aroma, in all the different wines, that’s the silver thread between the wines The point is to eat this is very challenging but we have full control over– almost full control over this apple but we don’t have control over the wine because we are in the hands of nature If the nature is not– the weather is not good, we can lose everything in the vineyards So here this– Yeah, we’re still speaking about wine Here we have Saccharomyces cerevisiae Different species beticus, cheresiensis, montuliensis, and rouxii which are the yeast who grows on top of the sherry wine So this is the biological breeding This yeast feed itself from the sugar and the glycerin of the wine That’s why the sherry wines are the driest wines in the world So what we tried to do

We try to grow this flour yeast here in Mugaritz So we have been in touch with the oenologist of the cellars in the south of Spain, in Jerez They give us the flour yeast and as well they bring– they give us a little bit of wine Here to select the microorganism we use the alcohol So here we need 15.3 degrees of alcohol to select that yeast So we tried to do it here in Mugaritz and, yes, it works It grows, it grows but it dies very, very fast– dies very, very fast Because the amount of wine has to be the correct one At least, we not master the technique but we understand what we have to do to grow our flour yeast here It’s very delicate, the temperature is very important So we have to buy aire condicionado [SPEAKING SPANISH] [SPEAKING SPANISH] Air conditioning Eso es So to keep the temperature in the room to grow that yeast And this is how it looks when it is well– well grown In that cellar– in that cellar, one oenologist told us that he sees himself as a micro farmer because his main job is to take care of this yeast because the yeast makes the wine So here Antonio Flores giving us– the day that he gave us the flour yeast [SPEAKING SPANISH] This project of grow the flour yeast here was very, very challenging and not too easy We had to very– a lot of problems of the cross contamination and a lot of problems to keep the temperature and the right amount of nutrients inside the wine So that the scale– the scale of the wine and the yeast is very, very important in that case Different dishes that we made with the flour yeast Here we have black olive brioche with the flour yeast And here we have freeze dried foie gras with the flour yeast which is very, very interesting dish We used to share that dish with the sherry wine and Tio Pepe from Jerez And then to finish, I want to speak a little bit about the kombucha So that’s the question Do you like to drink kombucha? Yes, no, I only drink grand cru I like this 8% that only drinks grand cru No, I ask this– I ask this question because now kombucha seems to be very trendy and there’s a lot of kombuchas In the United States, there’s a big, big market of kombucha right now Different dishes that we made out of kombucha, but I have to say that in Mugaritz we are focused on the SCOBY, the symbiotic colony of bacteria and yeast that create this matrix made out of cellulose

So we grow kombucha in so many different, let’s say, substructs Not only tea, we use fruit purees, we use the heavy cream, we used soy milk, we used even jamón ibérico stock to grow kombucha and the final result is always very, very interesting Even potato– potato juice So here you have the how it looks normally the kombucha So we always have been focused on the surface, on the SCOBY So that’s the SCOBY Basically it’s cellulose So in 2014, is very interesting because I receive a tiny bit of kombucha from Germany I have in touch with a guy– I don’t know that guy– but he sent me a piece of kombucha with a little bit of liquid by using the postal service And the first time we saw that thing, it seems that it’s not working but in few years we will be able to create this massive kombucha who– we will use it as a tablecloth So different test in different teas and using different ingredients So here in the development and research to develop different– different test is very important And finally we found in a book in Philippines, there is another SCOBY, called nata de coco, and they sell that nata de coco as candy And what they do is to take that mother, that SCOBY, called nata de coco, and they cook it in a sugar syrup So we had the idea to put our SCOBY under and between sugar And what happened is that the texture changed completely and becomes something like a jelly bean, like a gummy bear Different test And then here, we realized that we can grow this SCOBY on fruit puree In that case, we used the strawberry puree After this, we cured that SCOBY in a blend of sugar and freeze dried strawberries, and then we made that dish which is the strawberry SCOBY with a heavy cream Yeah, which is an interpretation of a very traditional dish which are the strawberries with heavy cream The year later, because we are very creative, we did it with the reverse We grow the SCOBY on heavy cream and we made a cream of strawberries So one year was strawberry with cream and the other was cream with strawberries And here I show you the process in which we decide to grow kombucha on soy milk So we realize that the many, many products in Asia, the kombucha was used as a clothing agent and we tried to use it here as well And it works, if you blend kombucha and a little bit of mother with the soy milk It sets completely, it gellifies I guess because the acidity But what happens is that on top, it starts to grow this kind of SCOBY which is transparent and the taste is very– it is a very interesting sourness and the texture is very liquid And then we develop that dish which is a little anchovy, roll it in that SCOBY So it’s a version of a very traditional dish that we have here, which is the Boquerones en Vinagre And here just– almost to finish

A time lapse of the growing And just to finish two more things that we have for the last days– of last year with the kombucha This is the kombucha tissue Here what we have is to put flowers on top of the surface of the kombucha and then that cellulose keep these flowers inside So and then we can serve that little blanket made with the SCOBY and the flowers I will show you how we made it So this is one way to keep– to trap these flowers And finally this is the last dish that we made this year with our SCOBY So it happens because that COVID we had to close the restaurant a few months And our SCOBY started to go absolutely completely wild here in the restaurant and we have a SCOBY thick like this We put that SCOBY in sugar and it becomes something incredible We serve that SCOBY cured in sugar with a full spoon of a sauce made out of algae and miso and it is absolutely incredible The clash of the salty and sugary and sour bite is incredible So as this enologist told us in Jerez, here in Mugaritz, we don’t have chickens, we don’t have these farm animals, but we are micro farmers We have our little microorganisms and we try to grow it, trying to understand it and trying to control the temperature, or the pH, the oxygen, the humidity, and as well the nutrients which are the key to grow this microorganism So here I finish the telling part and I will show– I will pass to show you something, if you want Thank you, Ramon, this is great I think, so– I think in the interest of time, we should– you should show us a few of the things because I know you’ve prepared them and then we’ll do a super quick Q&A, and then we’ll wrap up Does that sound good? Yes, yes perfect We can show and speak at the same time maybe OK OK, you’re ready to answer questions as you’re moving over Yes OK In that case, I have– I have several questions on the same theme, which is not surprising to me, which is– I’ll pick Alexander’s question How do you know if something is edible, especially when dealing with microorganisms? There are other– how do you know if it’s suitable for human consumption? How do you test– how do you– how do you determine if it’s edible

or not? How do you do that? Yes So how I know that? Well, there is a movie I like to show which is called, Ronin It’s a movie made with director John Frankenheimer and it happens in Paris with Robert de Niro, Jean Reno, and so on It’s a spider– is a spider– a spy movie OK? And they are– Robert de Niro, no– Bob de Niro and Jean Reno They where in a car and the conversation is one asked to the other– in the under the bridge, in the river– how did you know it was an ambush? And the other say, the first thing that they teach us is, when there is a doubt, there is no doubt If I doubt if something is edible or not, I throw it to the garbage This is the first thing And the other thing is that we always use that phrase for commercial startups Sure If I expect something velvety, blue, and with the smell of the roquefort It has to be like this If it’s different, I know that something happened between OK? And as well, we have here, we have our department and we check all these calibrations all the time, just in order to see we have cross contamination, or if we have– we can check through the literature if we have toxins or not inside the different dishes Yes Great, thanks Sometimes– sometimes you have to experiment with yourself So here you can see– The first thing I show you is how we make the garden So here I have a barrel Yes is like this and here we put anchovies and salt and it was here for around 5-7 months and this is how it looks OK Smells– smells fantastic, I have to say Well and now, I will show you the final result because this Sunday I will show that they were straining the garum here Our chefs were straining the garum So here, we have our garum This is the garum I will show you a little bit So how clear, how clean it is, is impressive So because at the first time, it looked like a rotten paste– rotten paste, but you can see here that the final result is amazing So here we are still having some scraps of fish So Pia, you have questions? Actually, I do have questions about garum

which fits perfectly here So how long can the garum stay for and what is the oldest garum that you own? Whoa The oldest garum that I own, I don’t know exactly, but you can keep the garum almost forever OK Almost forever, yes Because the amount of salt that we use here is around, let’s say is around, 50%– 50% to 20%– which is a huge amount And the main idea is to try to skip the clostridium botulinum, so– OK, more than 50% is safe and with this amount we can keep the garum almost forever Here is how we keep our garum For example, that one was 150 grams from the 12th of September 2020 Was strained a few days ago Look here, this is the honey mead that we produce And what it’s made out of the honey in which we keep our sea urchins Is very aromatic Something happens? Yes, it just stopped It just stop, yes Yes, maybe try to share again? I will In the meantime, maybe as you get ready, I’ve seen a few questions which I feel very eager to answer So maybe I’ll do that There’s a question from Rennin Rorck about what would be a good starter recipe for fermentation to prepare with younger students? And there’s some questions about good recipes to do at home So when I do this with younger students– really any students– I– two great ones is sauerkraut and yogurt With, for both of them, you sort of don’t really need anything Both of them are such traditional fermentations that, if they go wrong you kind of know that they went wrong, as long as– as long as they smell fresh and sort of look good What you did is probably good, so those are those two I really recommend They’re very simple For yogurt, you can just use back slop, like using non pasteurized, store bought version Just put it in milk, put in a warm place, and wait For sauerkraut, all you need is some salt, some cabbage, really push out the oxygen, any extra air, and you should be good to go OK Ramon, what do we have? Here, we have the tempeh growing on a lemon gelatin I will cut it a little bit to show you I don’t know if you can see I will cut it a little bit Oh look, look So here we have And here you can see how melts the gelatin Look here Here So then, after this, we dry this mold and then we serve it– we serve it with lamb So another thing that we have around here, pretty interesting Is the moldy bread, the forbidden bread

So here you have a vat, I check it OK So, yes, it works Here Yes so here you can see the holes that we made I will cut it from here in the hole So the point is, if I serve this to you in the table you will eat it Because you are here in Mugaritz or not Or you will call Andoni just to have your words with him So the technique is very simple, as you can see here, the mold as well growing outside, is very important to have a beautiful– beautiful hole inside the bread just to able the mold to grow If you check how the cheese maker made the roquefort, you can see that they cut the cord very big, very big, and they don’t press that crust just in order to create holes inside the cheese Little holes with oxygen who able the cheese to– that is the mold to grow Other things that I have here and I like to show you So we have a very, very hot weather here We prepare this dish on Sunday and is a little bit overfermented, a little bit overfermented This is the Penicillium candidum growing inside a plate OK this is the plate I will try to hold it upside down Here you can see the inside which is that heavy cream, smells like cheese So the main idea is to put that plate in the oven a few minutes to melt the gelatin And now– No! OK, these are the fermented apples OK Here we have one that goes a little bit wild I don’t know exactly– I think is a little– is too wet, but I will show you one of them, like this one So here you can see how we grow in that case the Penicillium– the Penicillium roqueforti and Penicillium candidum It’s very interesting because there is a kind of competence between both molds If you put– I guess, if I’m not wrong– if you put first the Penicillium candidum, the Penicillium roqueforti, it doesn’t grow So the amount of competence that we have around here, it’s very interesting If we put it upside down, you can see that we have a hole here And we fill that hole with the marmalade

so you can see how the mold grows inside as well And that one So here you can see clearly that something goes wrong, something goes wrong And what goes wrong here, I think is the amount of humidity that we have I can see it So that one is super– is overcook Is overcook And I go with– I want to show you one of our kombuchas Yes, I have it here This is all kombuchas Maybe you– you have one at home but the most interesting thing here is how big it is, in that case You can see how big it is And after this, we put in sugar and what we have is this little thing around here This is the SCOBY and how it looks It’s like– it’s like a gelatin and the texture is amazing, texture is amazing, and the taste as well So this is– I have a few more things here to show, if you want But– I think in the interest of time So I could stay here all night and I see many hundreds of people who could also stay here all night but I think we should probably wrap up here We have– we’ve taken some questions and I’m sure there are ways to get in touch with Ramon to ask your questions, if you’d like to So let’s all join in thanking Ramon and Andoni so much It was amazing to have you here and amazing to see all the stuff you do Thank you so much So thank you, thank you, Pia Is a pleasure to have a chance to show a little bit what we have– what we have been doing these years here in Mugaritz It is– it’s a big, big pleasure Thank you so much Thank you